Now is the time at SDA when we juxtapose!
Edmonton Journal, May 12: “No one tells us what specialists we can or can’t see, as some American HMOs do.”
Edmonton Journal, May 13: “The Royal Alexandra Hospital will cancel 15 per cent of elective surgeries after receiving a directive from Alberta Health Services to cut costs.”
{Nicely done, Norman.)
Only in Canada could this kind of insanity be possible regarding healthcare, thanks to lieberals and NDPeers. The same kind of insanity that looks away, when a sitting Prime Minister, Cretien , stands up at a podium and says in broken Froglish, “Well you know maybe a few million dollars were stolen, but it was to save Canaaada. As we waste millions with this pathetic inquiry into the fact that Mulroney accepted PRIVATE MONEY from some sleazeball, after he was out of office. The slimes like Ibotson and Travers are beating each other up to get on Didlers show ever day with the latest 20 year old news on Mulroney, what a country.
If we had better choices in politicians instead of lawyers and farmers, perhaps we could get some real solutions. Until then, the farmer leads.
The value of such posts seems to be a catchy byline followed by links so that curious readers can decide whether to spend time (or not) to find out what the story is actually about.
Would more than a byline and a link add more value for the readers?
Go away anon. We like the SDA juxtapose.
Sometimes less is more.
Healthcare here functions exactly like an HMO in the states. I can’t see a specialist unless I have a referral from my family doctor. Even if I know exactly who I need to see because I’ve seen them before, I can’t just call and make an appointment with that specialist.
When I lived in Iowa with insurance that wasn’t an HMO, I just skipped the middle man and saw the doctor I needed to see.
Michele, that is exactly the problem. Everyone in Canada is HMO with no option to choose anything different. With a PPO of other medical plan, not only is the “middleman” elliminated, the wait time reduced signifigantly, but you also don’t get reffered to a “buddy” of your GP.
In the US of A, information on doctors is also a lot easier to obtain which makes choosing a doctor a more informed choice.
One socialist going out of his way to help out another:
“Layton to help Obama in health-care battle”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090514.wPOLndp0514/BNStory/politics/home
I get the feeling Layton’s people think he has way more influence than he actually does…
Layton goes to Washington, who the hell cares?
Health care in Canada is freeeeeee. NDPeeee says it must stay that way, no two-tier medicine, no sireeeeee, wait in line until you drop. Or, you can hop over the border and get same day service.
Common sense has gone the way of the Dodo bird.
A Canadian communist giving state health care advice to the novice American Marxist.
Beware America!!
The Alberta government had an opportunity to make a real difference in the lives of Albertans – but they flushed that down the toilet. Cancelling surgery – what a load of Vegreville BS. I’ll be happy to inform my Conservative MLA that that the political doanation is not in the mail this year. Short sighted rubes, they need Lasik surgery. Alberta should be leading the healthcare revolution, instead we have timid, visionless parsimony.
“specialist referrals are required in Canada”
This is the crux of the rationing system.
Where to go for 2nd or 3rd opinions after a devastating diagnosis of a treatable but out-of-the-ordinary potentially fatal illness. Where to go when special treatments and surgeries or new treatments and medicines are prescribed but not on public coverage or unavailable in Canada?
While speed in the delivery of specialty or new medicine is essential to your survival at this point, everyone in the public health system bureaucracy you must interface with to get special treatment seems more concerned with regulations, rationing, backlogs and budgetary considerations. In other words, the service delivery gate keepers are more priority weighted to tie you to system limitations rather than seeking a solution to your condition.
Time wasting placebos or palliative care are all that you can expect if you have much more than a common condition or surgery. This has happened to a number of my friends and family, and it has happened enough to be more than coincidental.
I believe patient mortality and cure rates in poorly managed public universal systems to be unacceptable. I also believe the public system, as it is now, is unsustainable. The expectation of top level quality and cure rate in any such union-burdened, state-funded, bureaucratically rationed ultra-exoteric system is pure delusion.
For those who I consistently see reflexively chanting the mantra of no changes to this current healthcare system, you obviously have never had a serious illness and been in the system to have such delusions of this faultless paragon. I hope you never have to rely on the politicians, bureaucrats and unionists who run this system for your life, because any thing more serious than a broken arm stands a good chance of becoming fatal.
On the Colby Cosh site, I just posted this on a related issue:
“There’s even this charmingly named HM Government body to determine whether it’s worth spending public money – sorry, whether it’s “cost-effective” – to provide you with medical care:*
http://www.nice.org.uk
And I’m not just carping from the sidelines here; I recently returned to Canada after living in London for several years.
Because the UK still permits private medical care, there’s an inherent irony in their healthcare system. The UK pioneered the National Health Service (NHS) concept to ensure millions would have access to public medical care. But it has now come full circle: if public medical care can’t or won’t help you, you can always spend your money getting comprehensive care from a private company.
* Even though, as a British taxpayer, you and your parents will have been contributing to the NHS your entire working lives.
Interesting how folks are quick to blast US HMOs that decline care to their customers but governments seem to be able to make such decisions with impunity.”
Ah, the good propagandists of the media.
Yes, the government isn’t like an HMO. In fact, with HMO’s you have the choice to fire them and chose another insurer. If they cause you harm, you have recourse to the courts. So in that regard, HMO’s are superior.
The other thing the media seems not to be aware of is that when the government controls entries to med and nursing spots at university, and they cut the number of spots to save money (as Bob Rae did here in Ontario and other premiers did across the nation,) this is an explicit denial of service and rationing of care to save the insurer money (that insurer is the government monopoly in this case.)
Further, since the government controls who, how many, where and the budget of all hospitals, they do choose exactly what services are offered.
Further-er, the government sets the table of drugs where are covered under state plans (Ontario has two tiers of drug coverage depending on class of patient) and from this, all the private drug plans take their cue.
How long do you think it takes before a new, life-saving drug is “approved” by the government? Well, how much does the drug cost. I’m sure time and money have a linear relationship in this equation.
Further-er-er, is that the government rations new medical equipment. It isn’t JUST lack of funds to purchase equipment like MRI’s which make them scarce, it’s also that a hospital has to go begging to the government to let them buy one even if they have the money. Here in London, there was the case of private fundraising providing enough money to buy two new MRI’s but the provincial government refused to let the hospital make the purchase as the government was on the hook for providing the costs to run MRI’s for patients once they were up and running. The government didn’t want to pay to reduce the waiting lists cause the costs keep piling up after that.
After you get an MRI, people want actual care. Like surgeries and other stuff the government wants to ration.
The government WANTS you dead on a waiting list. They don’t want you living to suck up costs the government would rather redirect to buying votes.
If an HMO operated like this, it’s CEO would be in jail and the company sued out of existence.
In a talk by Dr. Brian Day, past president of the Canadian Medical Association, he stated that the basic problem with our system has to do with block funding. Institutions are provided a block of funding and told to operate within those parameters. There is no relationship to the service provided to the patient. It is not much of a leap to see that the best way to operate within this arbitrary allocation is to reduce costs by NOT providing services. The fewer patients treated the less expended and, like magic, you manage within the allocation. This is the incentive that underpins block funding. If you don’t do what you are supposed to do, you will achieve economic success.
His solution was based on a patient centric funding methodology where the institution received funding based on the number of patients treated. In other words, the money flows to those entities that are efficient in doing what they are supposed to do, treat people who are sick or injured. Oh yeah, he also said that patients should have the right to determine what institution, public or private, should be paid to provide the treatment.
Brian Mallard
If funding were based on fee-for-service (like GP’s) then there would be no way to control costs.
The government won’t do it. Ever.
The creep Rae even cap’d GP’s billings at the very same time he banned them from working less effectively turning them into unpaid slaves for the period of the year after they reached their cap.
Any way you slice it, the problem isn’t lack of money, it’s lack of accountability. There is no cost to use the system. The demand for something free is infinite. When you run off to the emerg dept with the sniffles, you are wasting resources but the twit with the cold suffers no consequence. Hypochondriacs cost the system billions a year in fictitious illnesses.
User fees (even small, nominal fees like $20 per emerg visit) would save more money than any other change. If it cost you money to bugger the system you’d stop doing it. Twits would stop going to emerg to get a bandaid.
My father-in-law was scheduled for surgery at the R.Alec and they’ve already bumped him once. We’re very concerned that he’s in the 15% being cancelled as he’s so crippled at this point that he can’t farm without help.
*
i dunno… you’re interested in saving canadian lives…
you actually need to ban fishing.
*
fernstalbert,
We need more than a health care revolution, that’s just the tip of the iceberg as the saying goes.
Layton goes to Washington, who the hell cares? ~ Liz J
Could there be a new movie in the offing? Perhaps “Bozo goes to Washington”.
We need more than a health care revolution, that’s just the tip of the iceberg as the saying goes.
Posted by: Rick from AB
So true Rick. Did you notice the commercial of the soft voice of the elder spokesman [man] about what the unions do everyday for us poor Albertain’s.
Merle,
Yes, I’ve heard some of those union commercials, brings a tear to my eye to think that they might be hard up /sarc.
The sooner the west sheds the extra weight of being part of a broken confederation, the better, I’ve given up hoping for change in Ottawa.
The old saying is “if you can’t beat them, join them”. I never did agree with that even as a kid.
We need to be able to go to a hospital, with minimum if any wait times, be able to choose a specialist of your choice, and be treated like a customer, not some nuisance to be dealt with.
Government health care has never worked in any country before, why would it work here.
The only time I have ever seen an HMO limit which specialist I can see is when I choose the lowest cost option. In that case it is still *my choice*.
[quote]When I lived in Iowa with insurance that wasn’t an HMO, I just skipped the middle man and saw the doctor I needed to see.[/quote]
Michele,
IMO the Doctor issue is a red herring. You will find good Doctors, and bad, in any system. I find the Doctors & Nurses equally professional to the US system, although access to the limited number of specialists does not involve the same level of “choice”.
I see the Canadian System particularly problematic in the Doctor– Patient relationship. In the US system(s) the Doctors recommend & control all aspects of patient treatment. The Hospitals & treatment centers are “resources” used by the Doctors.
In Saskatchewan the Hospital (plan)administration become dictatorial in the rationing of diagnostics & Heath care. “THAT IS THE PROBLEM”. The socialist point of view is that the Doctors are the “resources”… “They should be paid a salary just like any other profession”
When they take away the Doctors control of your health care… the patient has no choice!
BTW: 20 years covered by GE medical in New Jersey, both tradition & HMO.
More than 30 years (broken) with Saskatchewan/Canadian
Warwick
I agree with you regarding user fees. I was simply pointing out that the current funding mechanism encourages lack of treatment. I was not addressing the broader issue of overall costs.
up to date comment. ontario plans on a hiring freeze of doctors. they decide how many can train and now they are going to freeze hiring. question. if there is only one specialist in your area tell me just what is your choice. i will use the word again. stupid.
brian. no user fees ever. when 40 to 46 percent of provincial gdp goes to medicare then we have paid enough. more than enough.
In the private sector, when an employee benefit plan puts in either a co insurance (plan pays say 80% and user pays 20%) or a deductible, utilization for the benefit goes down increasing the resultant savings overall. I think this is what Warwick was referring to. In the public sector, there is no reason to assume this same occurrence would not take place. I hear what you are saying in that we already pay too much but by injecting individual accountability into the system there are ways to reduce cost and utilization without affect the efficiency desired.
Its starting already. Triage medicine by age, social class or race. Just like the Federal Government. Those that work can live. The ones who are to expensive will get a shot.
By the way the The Royal Alexandra Hospital is known here by street people & the old as “Hotel California”. You go in & never come out. Alive that is. There the live birth abortion folks too.
Kind of like a cleaning industry desposing of waste.
JMO
Posted by: fernstalbert at May 15, 2009 9:10 AM
What’s the location of the world’s biggest pysanka got to do with it?
The Canadian health care system can only survive by rationing. It has nothing to do with looking after medical needs in a timely manner.
Need a procedure? Hop a plane and go to the US. You’ll get same-day service.
Cheap-skate Canadian? Put your name on a waiting list and whine about for months, just because it’s free. Or is it?
Coming soon to OHIP (maybe, depends how suicidal the McSquinty Liberals are): “standard of care” regulations for the old and sick.
Right now, the patient’s next of kin and the doctor choose what interventions will be performed on the old and sick people. This is expensive. OHIP would very much like to reduce these costs by letting the old groaners just croak without all the fancy schmancy hospital stuff.
If can only get “free” medical services provided by the government, why can’t I get to government to pay all the food I eat. I mean really, my heart bleeds for all the people in this country that have no food. After all, they die much quicker than people without “free” medicine…
I waited from 6pm to 4am at the Royal Alex a year ago with one dude bleeding from his head. He didn’t have to wait THAT long. Only about an hour or so…
Any American readers have anything to say about this???