The segment with Gilbert shows him and another doctor badly faking chest compressions and other life-saving measures on a live boy faking death in what can only be described as political theater. The video claims to be filmed by the brother of a Palestinian teen that claims the boy was one of two purposefully killed by a missile fired at them by an Israeli drone as they played.
[…] CNN editors who swallowed the story of the poorly-acted video unquestioningly—no doubt because it fit the anti-Israeli narrative familiar to CNN viewers and critics—have now pulled the video without explanation, correction, or retraction.
It has also been determined that the videographer who filmed his brother’s “death” is the general manager of a company that hosts web sites for Hamas.
Fake but accurate! While the video is gone, the story remains up at CNN.
The video:
dp
ET is an academic (PHD)who sit in a fluffy chair in an ivory tower and is unable to grasp that text book “knowledge” takes a second seat to “street smarts”. I’v had to deal with one or two of these types in my working life.
I would suggest that ET google Salim Mansur (PHD) who teaches sociology (as I recall) at western. Dr Mansur is of Indian Muslim heritage, born in Kenya, and educated in England, and has written extensively on this topic (and muslim social/religious/ideology) over time.
dp – good heaven’s no, I’m not of German descent, and I don’t think within any ‘hereditary’ mindset perspective. I can think for myself, thankyou.
As for your Calgary cabdrivers – so what. We get the same kind of verbiage about Muslims on this blog. I would hope that we, as rational, questioning and exploratory minds, would be able to move outside of such primitive biases.
sorry, me no dhimmi, my views on Israel-Palestine haven’t been changed by vitruvius, much as I esteem and respect him. My views that there is no possibility of a Palestinian state are based on the factual realities of the increased settlements of the West Bank by Israel over the past two years. That in itself tells me that the verbiage about ‘a future Palestinian state’ is meaningless.
No, I don’t think that my claim that Israel has failed to enable a Palestinian state is ‘bogus and slanderous’. Settling the West Bank is a reality; it’s not bogus. How can you slander the truth?
And recognizing the truth is ‘street smarts’, while your, and others’ reductionist views that ‘all Israelis are good and well-intentioned’ and ‘all Palestinians are genocidal aggressors’ is, if I may say, pure cerebral fantasy.
People aren’t as basic and simple as your outline; one population can’t be reduced to ‘All X are Good’ while All Y are bad’. And the situation in the ME isn’t as simple as you outline.
Again, Israel’s settling the land set aside for a Palestinian state is a clear indication that NO such state can develop in the future.
What should Israel have done? Enabled a Palestinian state by working with the Palestinian peoples themselves; that is, the farmers, the workers, the local people.. and along with the international community, worked to develop the West Bank for Palestinians (not settlers as Israel has done). That means, the farms, the irrigation, the roads would be for a Palestinian economy (not for a settler economy as it now is) – an economy tightly linked to that of Israel.
Same in Gaza – an economy tightly linked to that of Israel.
And, to have recognized a state of Palestine (which Israel has never done).
So far, no-one has explained to me why the settlements in the West Bank are not to be viewed as effectively ending a future Palestinian state and rendering any talk about such a state as bogus. And no, I’m not interested in explanations such as ‘there’s no such thing as a Palestinian’ or ‘the Jewish people were there first 2,000 years ago’ or ‘they won the war’.
Since the Israeli, Palestinian and international talk has been about a proposed Palelstinian state, then these arguments are empty. My question is – how does settling the West Bank, which includes Israeli-only roads, Israeli-only use of water – how does this go towards enabling a Palestinian state?
And again, it may be intellectually and emotionally comforting to conclude that All X people are good and All Y people are bad, but I’ve yet to see any situation, outside of films and novels, which operate that way.
ET said “What should Israel have done? Enabled a Palestinian state by working with the Palestinian peoples themselves; that is, the farmers, the workers, the local people.”
Has there ever been any indication that the Palestinians would be even marginally receptive to such ‘cooperative efforts’?
Israel doesn’t use Predators – they fly the “Mahatz” (Heron) and I don’t believe they have armed it yet.
Canada has just acquired Herons.
Those pictures we are seeing on the news – the ones with a downward cone of smoke trails, are not “parachute flares”. They are 155mm air bursts – the modern version of Henry Shrapnel’s original invention.
The RCA is using the same munition in Afghanistan – very devastating to group targets in small open areas.
gym – Salim Mansur is a friend of mine. We’ve talked extensively by email and over coffee about these and other issues and have similar views on many things. He’s in the political science department.
I agree with you, in large part, about academics, but, obviously, not with reference to myself. Again, don’t make the reductionist error of claiming that IF one is an academic, THEN, one is also ‘not street smart’.
However, I think that there’s more to the reality of the ME than street smarts – whatever that means to each of us; I think that information about the history, the mindset, the actual things done (eg, road development, water development, economic devt etc) is important.
After all is said and done, the basic ingredient in Gaza is Hatred that is advocated, taught, preached and historically mandated by the Islamic faith, if you can call it that, and I guess you can.
There is a fundamental faith that if you kill a Jew, you’re cool. Very difficult to make peace when you have a cultural indoctrination like this, and having no wall or big walls, border check points or no border check points, has nothing to do with it. It’s their reason for being!!
I keep hearing proportional response and comparative casualty figures. It’s not a hockey game where you’re supposed to stop scoring when you’re ahead. Check out the Us and Them figures for WW2. Nothing proportional there, and that was a good thing.
I enjoy reading your comments ET. And I enjoy your respectful tone, and the fact that you do not engage in hyperbole and name calling, both of which are boring.
Certainly, this is a complex issue. The sad answer is that the reasonable individual can see the desperation and futility of this situation and can understand (though not necessarily justify) the actions of each “side”.
I do not see a solution in the forthcoming years. Likely, demographic imperatives (growth and strength) will sort this out long term.
As a physician who has just finished doing a resuscitation last shift, I agree with the analysis by Last Mohican.
The CPR is fake. There is no ventilation, the chest compressions are pitiful.
Moreover the interesting thing is that the monitor is beeping, but doesn’t look like it has asystole on it. In fact it is making the noise it makes when it is unplugged from the patient or an error vs. a serious interpreted event (some monitors can tell if their leads are plugged in). Also while it is beeping the caucasian doctor is putting the chest lead electrodes on the kid’s chest, while the other guy is doing fake CPR, meaning the monitor was not actually attached to the patient.
In Gaza the war is fought with rockets and bombs but out here, safe and sound the war is being fought via the media. Unfortunatly, the media are for the most part not the most reliable source of information as can be seen in the CNN fauxtography. Hell, CBC’s insight is being fed by a reporter from Al Jazera, for crying out loud. CTV is busy interviewing by phone “Canadians” who want out of Gaza but not if they have to return to Canada. They seem to mistake Foreign Affairs Department with Tourism Bureau.
Fortunatly, there is the internet where one can look around and find lots of info, just have to put on your own filters to get to the truth. The IDF actually have some gunsight footage available on U-Tube. Propaganda, maybe but at least there is another side to see.
btw, Phantom, lookes like you hooked a live one with Deezenuts. A koolade drinker fer sure.
Pol Pot was right about one thing. People like “ET” have absolutely no social value.
ET:
The settlements: what percentage of the land mass of Judea-Samaria? Is it 4-5%. What’s the settler population: is it around 150,000 or so? Did they steal the land?
As you know all of Palestine was intended for the Jews beginning with the Balfour Declaration of 1917, after which in 1922, 77% of it was cut away for Adbullah’s TransJordan — for Arabs of Palestine. No Jews allowed. Judenrein.
Judea-Samaria was part of the Jewish allotment in the Mandate.
Yes, the 1947 partition did exclude Judea-Samaria, but the partition became (res #181) a dead letter when it was rejected by the Arabs who instigated an intended annihilationist war against Israel. Interestingly in the early 90s the Arabs tried to revive Res. 181, knowing of course that it would entail Israel’s exit from the West Bank. But they failed. Dead letter. Not in force. REJECTED. Israel stayed because the Arabs REJECTED all negotiations.
Do you favour a judenrein Judea-Samaria? Why? Is so, are you telling me Muslims can’t live with Jews in their midst? Would this be due to Islam (forget islamofascism, an unfortunate distraction). Gaza is, of course, judenrein. Did that help?
How about an Arab-free Israel? Are you in favour of ethnic cleansing? I am, when two peoples (“peoples” with reference to the “Palestinians”) can’t live together as equal partners. (see Pakistan).
Are you aware that Jews are LEGALLY permitted to live anywhere between the Jordan and the Mediterranean, which of course would include Gaza and Judea-Samaria? This is clearly stated in the Mandate, League of Nations. Continued with the successor UN. Never changed. The settlements may or may not be wise (good politics) but they are not illegal. A “street smart” player doesn’t give up stuff taken LEGALLY in a defensive war without a quid pro quo from the enemy. Especially when dealing with Arab-muslims who see all concessions as weakness to be exploited, who consider all agreements with the infidels, hudnas (treaties to be broken when enough strength has been attained). Afflicted with liberal cognitive egocentrism, you simply cannot GET THIS, ET.
Yes, your charge is bogus, as is your additional claim that the “settlers” are a true obstacle to peace, instead of a handy bit of agitprop for western consumption, which you’ve swallowed whole. Bogus on its very face, considering the outcome of removing all 10,000 Jews from Gaza.
It is the iron law of every colonizing movement, a law which knows of no exceptions, a law which existed in all times and under all circumstances. If you wish to colonize a land in which people are already living, you must provide a garrison on your behalf Or else-or else, give up your colonization, for without an armed force which will render physically impossible any attempts to destroy or prevent this colonization, colonization is impossible, not “difficult,” not “dangerous” but impossible!… Zionism is a colonizing adventure and therefore it stands or falls by the question of armed force. It is important to build, it is important to speak Hebrew, but, unfortunately, it is even more important to be able to shoot-or else I am through with playing at colonization.
Vladimir Jabotinsky, one of the founding fathers of the Zionist movement, wrote in 1923:
CTV is now reporting that Israel is using white phosphorus, in violation of Geneva Convention rules. They have footage! It looks real.
That’s gonna smart.
ET said:
“My own view is that this attack will simply inflame more youths to join Hamas and other militant organizations.”
What is the point? It isn’t Israel or anyone else’s responsibility to stop youths from joining terrorist organizations. The youths that join Hamas deserve their fates.
The best lesson I have learned from a councilor is that someone else can not make you feel a certain way(ie inflamed). How someone feels is solely that persons responsibility. It is this projection of blame that prevents the person who feels that way from taking responsibility and feeling better.
Kevin said:
“SDC, I do not think that there are any innocent bystanders in Gaza. For any criminal enterprise to flourish, there has to be some kind of implicit or explicit agreement with the host community. If a criminal gang is intolerable, you either move away, or you get them to move away. The fact that Criminal organizations like Hamas and Fatah have existed in Gaza for decades, tells me that the residents of Gaza want them there.”
I agree with this statement. Similar to the situation with Lebanon not long ago I think civilians in most cases are just as responsible as the terrorists themselves. IMO(I’m not saying I’m right) WRT the war on terror, the difference between warring with Hamas and Palestine is a facade. These people elected this government, and the government is waging war on a sovereign nation. The fact that civilians allow military groups to operate from their backyards makes them culpable!
Could someone tell me where I’m wrong here.
ET, I’m not picking on you ok? Just so you know.
Going back to something you said at 11am, “My own view is that this attack will simply inflame more youths to join Hamas and other militant organizations.”
Madam, I beg to point out: this is not the problem. Hamas is a glorified street gang. We have street gangs here too. Maybe not quite as perverse and disgusting, but still. They’re here.
The difference is, our home grown and even imported a-holes are not being armed by foreign powers. The Mohawk Warrior Society for example is not being supplied with guns, RPGs, C4 and rockets by the State of New York, for the purpose of doing war on the province of Ontario.
If more punks join Hamas, Fatah, PLO or whatever it doesn’t matter a damn, really. What matters is shutting off the flow of foreign arms. Without munitions the most these cretins can do is wave flags around and beat the hell out of each other behind The Wall in Gaza and the West Bank.
That’s why I disagree with your about the possibility of a Palestinian State. Making a street gang into a state, that could be a bad thing.
With statehood comes the power to control borders. Which means Iran, Syria and [woo!] Saudi Arabia would be able to freely ship BIG missiles into Gaza, and plausibly deny they had anything to do with the launching of those weapons and the killing of 10^n Israelis. Chose your own exponent based on how much bang the Arab states get for their spent-in-China buck. If they pony up for chemical weapons, n will be large.
Therefore, I see no reasonable alternative for the Israelis at this time to do other than what they are doing: destroying Hamas’s missile infrastructure and killing their sh1thead gunmen one at a time, in Gaza.
Declaring war on Syria, Egypt, Iran and Saudi Arabia and nuking the hell out of the lot of them is within Israel’s power, don’t forget. They could nuke Mecca. Foosh, instant self lit parking lot with glass paving. That’d be pretty special, eh?
Maybe driving tanks around in Gaza is the least crappy choice available. I’m sure all those IDF dudes would rather be clubbing in Tel Aviv than clubbing Pali gunmen in Gaza, right?
me no dhimmi – I think it’s useless to bring up the Balfour outline of 1917. Indeed, it had an intention of a Jewish state, to deal with ‘The Jewish problem throughout the world’ (???)and Balfour expressly stated that the Jewish state was to be set up ‘in Palestine’ without consulting the 700,00 Arabs living there’ – quite an elitist and colonial attitude in my view.
Do I favour nations that exclude other ethnic or religious groups? No, I don’t. We live in a global world. I am aware that Israel wants a Jewish majority, other Arab nations want a Sharia Law which obviously requires a Muslim majority. This is their wish – and most certainly, I can’t influence either national agendas!
Can Jews live with Muslims; can Muslims live with Jews? Of course both peoples can. That’s not the point. It’s the national official policy that is the point.
The occupation, in my view, is illegal in that it runs counter to the proposal for a Palestinian state. To declare that Israel ‘won’ it in a war would also mean that Britain should occupy Germany..and so on. And also, IF the West Bank and Gaza were ‘won’ in a war, then ALL discussion about a Palestinian state OUGHT to have ended. Completely. Over and done with.
But it didn’t. The rhetoric continued. Why? Because Israel has no intention of absorbing the Palestinians in these ‘conquered territories’ (West Bank and Gaza) as Israeli citizens. Because of the requirement for a Jewish majority.
This means that these territories could either be handed over to the Palestinians for a state, which Israel refused to do- and Palestinians rejected the Israeli offer of only municipal governance while Israel retained full control over the land, borders, water, air; or, it could continue to occupy them and increaseingly settle them..in the hopes that the Palestinians would leave. I think the latter is the Israeli agenda.
I didn’t know that I was ‘afflicted with a liberal cognitive egocentrism’! heh -That’s quite an ailment, me no dhimmi, and I’m sorry, but I don’t feel so afflicted. I disagree with your perspective but I don’t feel that you are bogus or afflicted with any ailment.
We just have different data bases, analyses, views. I’m not going to claim that there is anything cognitively or emotionally or psychologically wrong with you because I don’t believe that one’s opinions are ‘essentialist’, ie, either ‘right or wrong’ and as such, caused by some aberration of being. No, we have different data bases and analyses. That’s it.
As for zionism and colonialism, shawn, I’m aware that zionism has been defined as ‘colonizing’ but I don’t see it that way. Colonization in my view means occupation of a land base and absorbing the inhabitants within the new governance. I don’t think that zionism had that agenda towards the Palestinian population.
dp said “CTV is now reporting that Israel is using white phosphorus, in violation of Geneva Convention rules. They have footage! It looks real.
That’s gonna smart.”
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/wp.htm
Quote: “White Phosphorus (WP) – Smoke
White Phosphorus (WP) creates a smoke screen as it burns. Phosphorus smokes are generated by a variety of munitions. Some of these munitions such as the M825 (155-mm round) may, on explosion, distribute particles of incompletely oxidized white phosphorus.
Smokes obscure vision and are used to hide troops, equipment, and areas from detection. Smoke screens are essential for movement in city fighting. In the December 1994 battle for Grozny in Chechnya, every fourth or fifth Russian artillery or mortar round fired was a smoke or white phosphorus round.”
I can just picture the ‘Green Helmet Guy’ standing in the corner yelling “Where is the machine that goes ‘ping’? The CNN crew is nearly here and we need the machine that goes ‘ping’!!”
The occupation, in my view, is illegal in that it runs counter to the proposal for a Palestinian state.
In your view ET. But not according to international law as I understand it. They took the land in a defensive war and all attempts at negotiating with the Arabs were REJECTED. Life an death. National survival.
I had not intended this as an insult at all:
Liberal cognitive egocentrism, a Richard Landes coinage, I think: not being able to get out of your own mindset [on this issue!] and see the conflict from the other party’s POV, which, for the umpteenth (heh!) is that the Arabs of Palestine want Israel destroyed and Jews murdered, or in the very best case scenario, Jews living as dhimmis in the former Israel. The one state solution, which is their objective.
ET, you should really demur from a casual use of terms like “legal” and “illegal”. As you know, lefties tend to do this when, for example, by rote, they spout the error that the Iraq war was illegal. Illegal = I don’t agree with it.
indiana homez – we have criminal gangs here, and that doesn’t mean that we Canadians are ALL responsible for their existence. We had Chretien’s Sponsorship/Adscam scandal, and that doesn’t mean that ALL Canadians who elected him were responsible for his behaviour.
I happen to be in favour of the Iraq War, and so were many Americans – and a lot were NOT in favour of it. Because the US government went to war did not mean that ALL Americans approved. So, your attempt to merge ALL Palestinians with Hamas is invalid.
phantom, I agree with your focus on the source of the weapons, which is different from my focus on the numbers of radicals in Palestine. However, I do not agree that ALL Palestinians are radicals or ‘cretins’ or ‘genocidal aggressors (MND)’. Therefore, my view is that IF one dealt with the Palestinian man-on-the-street (not the corrupt Fatah or radical Hamas) and worked with them to develop an economy, you’d get far more success and support.
And, the reality of a Palestinian state would mean that the people would focus on the progressive improvement of their daily lives, there’s be no need to ‘import arms’ against Israel, which would become their largest and most important ECONOMIC partner.
I think that the solution to Islamic fascism in the Arab states – generated out of their tribalism and refusal to modernize – is democracy. That’s a slow solution, but I think that a democratic Arab state in their midst, eg, Palestine, would do more to deal with fascism than ‘nuking them’ – a solution which I find untenable.
So, we all continue to disagree. Ah well, that’s what Fridays do to life.
I support what ET has to say on this subject except for one thing.
Israel cannot be expected to play a noble role like the USA just did after taking out the despots in Iraq and then investing blood and treasure in nation building. I believe that worked in Iraq ( ok, ok , it could backslide and we may not know if it really worked for 15 years). But my point is, some Western party has to play a role in helping “Joe the Palestinian Plumber” have a livelihood.
Israel cannot do that.
Maybe the West can, but who?
But I do believe there has to be “hope” for some kind of economic viability for the Palestinians to dig themselves out of their miserable situation and their miserable mindset.
Finally, I confess to being heavily manipulated by the MSM over the years regarding the Palistine/Isreali situation and I’m still trying to sort out the facts and look like I’m vacillating when I do. I’m sure a lot of Western politicians feel the same way but can’t admit it.
There’s a great article in Pajamas Media today, on ‘New Iraq emerges from Tyranny and War’. Google it and check it out.
It talks about how “The United States has succeeded in transforming a bellicose, autocratic state into a friendly one that is making steady progress towards becoming a self-sustaining democracy”
America gave Iraq a chance at democracy – and it took that chance..while so many in the world tried to prevent it, and tried to maintain the old tyranny.
I would hope that the world can give the Palestinians a chance at the same goal.
langmann, the monitor may not have had an asystole on it but there definitely are a couple of asystoles standing in front of it.
The Toronto police expect 15,000 muslims and their supporters like Sid Ryan, OCAP, student union types marching to the Israeli embassy at Bloor and Avenue Road on Saturday. Hint, don’t park your car in this general area as the “youths” have been known to torch a few in their exuberance.
ET, astounded at your statement saying Toronto has the biggest muslim population of any city in North America, that’s scary to say the least.
I noticed one thing missing from the video – the wailing. I’ve seen lots of news reports of deaths in the Middle East and they all have one thing in common – wailing. There was no wailing here, just subdued crying. That alone should have been a dead giveaway (no pun intended) to the ‘reporter’.
“And again, it may be intellectually and emotionally comforting to conclude that All X people are good and All Y people are bad” says ET
I don’t think anyone here is saying that. But what is wrong with looking at the history, looking at the facts, and picking a side. For all other conflicts on the planet it is appropriate to pick a side. Could you pick a side in the cold war, WWII, Iraq vs America and her allies, terrorists/West? Why must we throw up our hands and shout “both sides” when it comes to Israel/ArabMuslims?
and I cannot fathom how you think the presence of Jews destroys the possiblity for the Arabs of Palestine to have (their 2nd) state?
ET, I do not think, nor have I said, that -all- Palestinians are cretins. That’s one of those race-based hatred things, which are provably stupid. Only retards believe stuff like that.
Most people don’t really give a crap about the Big Issues, they are just trying to get the orange crop in and complaining about their inlaws.
The question that arises though, is what will they put up with in their space? So far, the Palestinians of Gaza have been quite willing to put up with foreigners using their kids as human shields. This is not indicative of a healthy culture, yes?
I’m always optimistic about empowering the individual. Left to their own devices, people tend to behave themselves. So, if there was some -practical- way of keeping foreign interests out of Gaza, they’d all settle down and get back to the orange picking.
Maybe the Americans could “invade” Gaza and the West Bank, then offer them the same deal as Puerto Rico in 20 years. I can’t imagine why they would bother, as there’s nothing in it for them but grief, but it could work.
Short of that sort of deus ex machina visitation of peace-through-superior-firepower, there’s no alternative for Israel. They have to go in and kick people in the ass until they stop trying to kill Israelis.
There’s no magical answer for these kinds of issues, you know. Its the same as bank robbers. You can’t let them keep robbing the bank, and you can’t pay them off to stop ’cause the bank has more money than you want to pay them. You have to capture them and stick them in jail, or shoot them. That’s the two options. Sucks, but there it is.
ex-liberal you raise interesting historical comparisons . Where would the loser Germany have been without the Marshall Plan?
I suspect right back in déjà vu 1919 and gearing up for another onslaught. That’s what Palestine is without a viable economy. Ergo: beat the crap out of Hezbollah and Hamas, finish them off, make sure the whole world knows we picked a winner and there is a loser …. Then we need a Marshall Plan for Palestine et al.
The Arabs and Iran will hate that idea because they don’t want the Palestinian problem solved. It is great propaganda for the Islamists and despots running the hell-holes throughout the region to point to the Isreali/Plai situation to recruit into their death cult.
When the Gazans respond to direct warnings of imminent threats by calling all children to show their support and stand on the roof to stave off a bomb, and there is pride shown in these actions, what do you expect but an increase in the casualty count? There is a saying “careful what you wish for, you might just get it”? They loudly tell the world that they choose death, then complain when it comes to pass.
Israel works overtime to spare lives of innocents and simply gets it thrown in its face.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBYtij4Q7sE
ET
We’ll have to disagree. I never voted for J.C. or P.M. but as a Canadian our soldiers were representing me when they were abroad. If our military commits atrocities(mandated) on innocent people then I believe that I and all Canadians responsible regardless of who we voted for. If a friend or family member of mine is a gang member committing crimes that I’m aware of, I’m just as guilty and evil if I turn a blind eye to it. If there is a crime committed that I have witnessed and I don’t come forward to the police, I am an accomplice.
Turning a blind eye to evil is evil in itself, this is what the so called “civilians” are guilty of. This is not a military conducting operations on a base separate from civilian populations where those civilians can claim ignorance and innocence. This is a “gang” of criminals being enabled by their community. No enabling by the community equals no gang. The obvious argument is civilians are bullied by these gangs. Although this may be true, it is not an excuse. Part of liberty is having backbone ,and standing up for principles regardless of the personal costs. Black communities in the USA have a very similar problem. When black on black crimes are commited very few witnesses ever assist the police in solving these crimes. Why? They’re cowards. They would rather tuck their tails then stand up and protect their communties.
“Coward” may be a human reaction but it is not an excuse, in fact, it too is evil.
ET a rhetorical question:
If Canada’s mainland was under attack as Israel is, do you think that Hamas would only target Conservatives and Liberals?
ET
in the early stages (67-mid 80t’s) the was a lot of trade/commerce/and labour crossing back and forth between Israel and the west bank, what caused the decline????
It was giving the palestinians what they wanted, “rule” by their selected leader, Arafat. And from there on things went down hill, because Arafat was not a leader/ nation builder, he was a pawn and a crook. He took monies from various sources and started a slow smouldering “war” with Israel, thus keeping the focus off himself and and his thievery. The Hamas were encouraged by the west (USA) to offset the effects of the PLO (Fatah), and now they have become the scourge. If the palestinians were to become sovereign the would, as Lebanon has, become and extension of Iran, fully armed with more powerful weapons and encouraged to attack Israel in unison with Hezbollah (Lebanon) and there would be huge life loses on all sides, with probable missile exchange with Iran, is this the type of scenario you propose, or can you not grasp this, because most of my “street” sources, whether they be pro or anti Israel predict the same out come of a sovereign palestine.
ET
and yes, I agree with you that the Palestinians should have their own land. Also I agree that most (not all) west bank settlements should be removed if there can not be an agreement between the Pals and the settlers to cohabit peacefully , to which I see as much resistance by the settlers as the Pals. Many of the settlers are both extremist and foreigners, that info comes from published interviews and from Israelis I worked with.
In the 80’s no one could touch CNN. look how the mighty fall when there only thought is for Utopia on the Marxist road. They should have figured out long ago anything the Dippers do brings death in its multiple forms. Its so pathetic now with the internet, to see the false bias thown at us as competent journalism. Its why I stopped watching network news a while back.
CNN is now just a fable waiting to be born. An ill omen of the buzzards of elitism.Always seeking an oppertunity from the smell of socialist corruption.
JMO
gym – I fully agree with you about the corruption of Arafat; he didn’t want a Palestinian state for then he’d lose power.
Equally, the Arab states don’t want a Palestinian state for they don’t want an Arab democracy in their midst as an example of ‘what could be’ to their own people.
However, I disagree with your street sources as to their suggestion that a Palestinian state would become an appendage of Iran.
An occupied Palestine has become that, but a free Palestinian people, aided by the international world to develop their own democracy (not with Fatah or Hamas as government); and with extensive economic links to Israel – need not become an appendage of Iran. Indeed, I would suggest (and so would the people I communicate with on this issue) that it would resist such a strategy by Iran and would act as a counter to Islamic fascism in the region.
“My own view is that this attack will simply inflame more youths to join Hamas and other militant organizations.” – ET
This is a fools response. Are we to fear this?
What ET is admitting is that she actually agrees with the majority of commenters. That is, that these people are so ridiculously blinded by ideological hate that they will throw their lives away and the lives of their children, in order to preserve their hatred.
As langmann posted at 2:31.
This is political theatre. These monsters will stoop to any level to preserve and grow their hatred of Jews. Taqiyya and Kitman are religiously sanctioned.
ET,
The vast majority of conflicts in this world are caused by Muslims. Including the agitation and conflicts they cause in lands to which they’ve immigrated.
Question:
If the ideology of Islam was removed in all its worst forms, starting with the inculcation of institutional, racist hatred perpetuated from generation to generation in the Palestinian education system and mosques, do you not think the situation would be resolved by now?
irwin daisy – this is the last time I’ll interact with you; I’m not interested in your defining my views as ‘a fool’s response’. Nor in your interpreting my comments to appear to make me agree that ‘these people are blinded by hatred’.
In reply to your question about removing the ideology of Islam (in all its worst forms – and what do you mean by that?) and asking whether such an act would solve the problem, my answer is NO. You are, as usual, ignoring the economic infrastructure and ignoring the political infrastructure.
I’ve outlined the dysfunctional nature of a tribal political system within a large population – and its preventing a middle class economy from emerging many times. This is the cause of Islamic fascism.
I’ve also outlined to you that Islam can and is being modernized, re-interpreted and that Muslims are attempting, slowly, to modernize it so that it can function within a modern industrial democracy. You have disagreed that it can be done.
So, I don’t think that we have much to debate about with each other. We have two completely different perspectives.
If that’s how Palestinean doctors do CPR, remind me not to have a heart attack in Gaza….
Israel makes its own tank, the Merkava. It’s pretty innovative.
Shawn/Jabotinsky at 2:44 pm:
“If you wish to colonize a land in which people are already living, you must provide a garrison on your behalf Or else-or else, give up your colonization, for without an armed force which will render physically impossible any attempts to destroy or prevent this colonization, colonization is impossible, not “difficult,” not “dangerous” but impossible!… ”
This may have once been a universal rule, but not any more, as Muslims are proving in Europe and maybe soon in North America. All you have to do now to colonize is find a place where the people already living there are so addled by the nanny state, self-loathing and political correctness that no garrison is required to defend the colonization process. In fact, if it is needed, those being colonized may provide the garrison for you in the form of HRCs and other state organs that will abet the colonization and attempt to prevent the pre-existing population from even perceiving it.
Modernize? How so?
The only possible way that can happen is by discarding the Medina portion of the Quran, all of the Hadiths, the Sira and most importantly (included), their Prophet’s sayings and actions.
Unless, of course, you have a better solution than the majority of the reformers, who also happen to be considered apostates?
And don’t bother with the equivalency argument that Christianity was reformed, so therefore…
The foundation of Christianity, the NT and Christ’s life example were not and did not need to be reformed. The politically motivated abuse, running contrary to the ideology did.
Your theory of Islamic appeasement is and has been a miserable failure throughout history.
That’s what I meant by a fool’s response. ‘Don’t aggravate them, otherwise more will become murderous wretches.’
As opposed to your pretentious and childish, “this is the last time I’ll interact with you;” as long as you keep posting rubbish, I’ll call you out on it. Respond or not. I could care less.
Quite right, felis corpulentis.
What Clint Eastwood defined in Esquire Magazine as, “The pussy generation.”
In fact, if it is needed, those being colonized may provide the garrison for you in the form of HRCs and other state organs that will abet the colonization and attempt to prevent the pre-existing population from even perceiving it.
Posted by: felis corpulentis at January 9, 2009 10:54 PM
Well, you nailed that one felis corpulentis. This is one of the key theses in Walid Phares’s books. Across the West, the university departments of Middle East Studies (sic) have made this their main project and have been wildly successful at it, as evidenced by that post 9/11 breast-beating refrain, “Whey Do They Hate Us”.
“[The]charge is bogus, as is [the} additional claim that the “settlers” are a true obstacle to peace, instead of a handy bit of agitprop for western consumption…. Bogus on its very face, considering the outcome of removing all 10,000 Jews from Gaza.
Posted by: Me No Dhimmi at January 9, 2009 2:38 PM
And this is the rub of it. The Gazans could have had the beginning of their very own nascent state right now. It’s been three years since the Israelis pulled out, lock stock and barrel.
What happened? Did the Gazans build schools? Roads? Hospitals? Ports? Social housing? Did they engage any other nations in trade treaties? Exchange programs? Defense agreements?
No.
They built smuggling tunnels. For weapons. They built rockets. Those rockets were fired into Israel.
I can only imagine the chaos that would ensue should the Israelis wholesale pull out of the West bank. The lesson from Gaza is clear.
… and destroyed those cutting-edge high-tech greenhouses which, amazingly, Israel left behind, in tact, which could have become the basis of an industry.
Paging the US Surgeon-General: Where is Sanjay Gupta when you need him?
To get back to the original post in the thread CNN has reposted the video, claiming that the bloggers are wrong and that the video is authentic. After all, the cameraman says so.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2009/01/07/holmes.gaza.boy.cnn
So CNN, has Sanjat given this the CNN/USSG seal of approval? If not, why not?
Ah yes, Skip, where were we …
Little Green Footballs is sticking to its hoax charge. While CJ has pi**ed me off a lot lately, I DO trust him on this stuff, recalling his brilliant coup on the Rather fraud.
MND at 12:23 AM:
Yes, my post should have recognized the role of Middle East Studies and, indeed, much of Western academe in garrisoning the Islamic Colonization Project. Going further, at least in Europe, establishment politicians play a major role as well. And not all of the MSM facilitators are organs of the state.
Israel may have pulled out 3 years ago but they’ve also cut of Gaza from supplies…is starving and dieing from treatable diseases any better?
How would Gaza be able to do anything..it’s not whether you trade with the world, it’s whether the world trade’s with you.
How would Gaza be able to do anything..it’s not whether you trade with the world, it’s whether the world trade’s with you.
Well then I suggest you take the ‘World’ to task for the problems of Palestine.
Deeznuts — if Gaza was truly cut off, it would be a ghost town by now. That there are still 1.5 million residents kicking around puts the lie to your assertion.
That said, Israel certainly does enforce strict control over the border. Do you think this is done in a vacuum? Out of sheer malice? Just for the fun of it?
Or, perhaps, might there be legitimate security reasons to manage tight controls over the movement of people and supplies into Gaza? I think the abundance of rockets and AK-47s in the territory is sufficient answer to my question.