“…since there will never be a ticker-tape parade down Fifth Avenue.”
95 Replies to “Victory in Iraq Day”
Good.
I’m proud to be American every day, but our victory in Iraq makes me even prouder. The citizens of all the countries in the coalition of the willing should be equally proud. Those who opposed this should be hanging their heads in shame.
This invasion and occupation was financed entirely on credit to be paid by the next generation.
This violates the precept of no taxation without representation, a precept upon which America was founded.
It hardly needs to be said that while the neo-cons were focused exclusively on Iraq and the Middle East, America went down the drain. I and many others believe that was by design, and that by ignoring the events that have resulted in the “diversity recession” the cheerleaders of foreign wars implicitly approve of both illegal immigration and trillion dollar bailouts. In short, the Iraq war was a deliberate cover for the Bush Administration to ruin America while nobody was watching.
Will Obama or a subsequent administration hold neo-cons financially liable for the Iraq war?
Will bloggers who knowlingly spread misinformation about the Iraq war be rounded up and have their assets seized to pay for the war they so aggressively pursued?
I’ve seen stranger things happen this week.
Congratulations to the U.S.,their allies and the Iraqi people. They have a hard won and well deserved victory.
oh don’t be such a shortsighted twat
the American taxpayer paid for putting a stop to the capers being cut by the Barbary pirates…which was arguably a very very good thing
NeoCons Owe Us Money, thought it was the democrats with Franks, Carter and Clinton that were the base case of the economic disaster by removing the regulatory controls. Now bloggers have to pay for the Iragi war, who are these powerful people? The war seems to be over in Iraq and the US and Iraq democracy were the victors I thought. Aren’t the democratic congress approving the bailout?
By the way neo-con means liberals who have become new conservatives after rejecting the liberal mindset. That’s not us we have always been conservative.
Think you are looking for rabble.com.
nonsense, neocon. Your outline is logically skewed.
It’s wrong to claim, as you do, that a current cost that sets up an immediate result via a long term debt is equivalent to ‘taxation without representation’. Invalid analogy.
Debts, after all, include all infrastructural costs such as roads, buildings, hospitals, schools and so on, which are all financially set up to enable a population to have the results now, and spread the costs over a number of years.
As for Iraq, it was, in my view, a correct action to take. Effectively, Bush has kept America safe since 2001, an impressive result. And above all, the result of that war was to move Islamic fascism from its diversion into the West, back where it should be. In the Middle East.
It is the Islamic states who must, themselves, confront the destructive result (fascism) that emerges in their own conflict between the need to modernize Islam and the ME political systems..and their own agenda of refusing such modernization.
America down the drain? Again – nope. How about some empirical points to support your opinion?
Are you seriously suggesting that Bush intended to allow America to ‘go down the drain’? Why?
How on earth can you correlate ‘illegal immigration’ and ‘trillion dollar payouts’ (?) with Islamic fascism and the Iraq war? Such a correlation requires lassoos that are beyond any actual reality.
Illegal immigration, by the way, has been going on for a long time; I’m certainly opposed to it, and the key problem is…Mexico. It’s Mexico that is offloading its impoverished class on to the Americans rather than providing an economic, social and educational infrastructure for these people. Then, these illegal immigrants send a lot of money ‘back home’ to support their relatives and that lets Mexico even further off the hook for any support for these people. Did you ever think of that?
So, a zillion cheers for America and Iraq, for winning their freedom against dictatorship, for setting up a democracy with a constitution and election, and thus, for setting up a structure that will smother the emergence of fascism.
What ET said.
🙂 and…
Congrats USA and IRAQ!
No more torturous wedding days of death for virgin Kurdish brides. As they’re now not being kidnapped to give to a psycho son to become a bloodied and tortured play toy for it’s perverse sexual gratification.
On the very day she was to have honor as a bride and become a wife. Note: the snappy progressives couldn’t care any less about this, easier to hate Christians and Jews I suppose.
CONGRATS IRAQ AND USA.
Thanks for this post, Kate. VI day recognition is long over due.
Politically incorrect is right. I wish I could post an article on a bulletin board at work, but I fear that would be considered political. Regardless, there is no room on the bulletin board because of all the environmental information pamphlets.
Victory in Iraq is something that all Americans can be proud of.
Congratulations to America and Iraq!
Some other countries that have contributed to the war in Iraq:
Albania, Armenia, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Moldova, Mongolia, Poland, Romania, South Korea, and the United Kingdom.
It is victory – no doubt about it. Now lets hope that the Iraqi’s don’t screw it up. I still say that the fat bastard Muktada al Sadr has to be taken out. The US still has to ensure that Iran and Syria keep their hands off of Iraq.
Well done America and the coalition of the willing. You have struck a major blow to tyranny and terror. The rest of that region which is run by brutal tyrants is taking notice and their citizens I’m sure, are looking at a democratic Iraq with envy.
The US still has to ensure that Iran and Syria keep their hands off of Iraq.
Exactly. Call me cynical, but if American interests in Iraq still have to be enforced by Americans — i.e., if the Iraqis are not ready to deal with regional threats on their own — is it not a bit premature to be declaring Victory in Iraq?
Wasn’t the whole point to assist the Iraqis to build and assume control of their own nation?
Not to say the US has not taken care of business there. But to talk about “victory” in a part of the world where enmities last for centuries seems kind of absurd to me.
And here I thought victory in Iraq day was back in May, 2003. Is this a different Iraq?
I assume I’ll be roasted alive for playing devil’s advocate here, but am I the only one on the right who is uncomfortable with such a decisive claim being made?
How the hell is victory against terrorism in a country measured anyways? Has all thr fighting stopped, is the enemy vanquished? I haven’t seen any reports of soldiers and citizens celebrating in the streets. I certainly haven’t heard of any of these chickenshit terrorists turning themselves and their weapons in on mass or their leaders signing any peace pacts. Are we not still just a couple of explosions away from much more death and warfare?
Either the MSM is more corrupt than even I suspected or I have finally managed to entirely miss one of Kate’s parodies.
Look, I entirely understand the need to support and acknowledge these brave men and women, especially when so many of those they die to protect treat them with disdain, but is pulling an arbitrary V-Day date out of our asses the right way to do it? I say it actually minimizes the sacrifice of those still over there in harm’s way today.
Only thing I can say Darrell is that they stayed in Japan and Germany long past their victory parades and now look at them. IF the media boy-king of the US does pull out too soon I would expect Iran and Syrian to stomp them down to levels far worse than what saddam had them down at.
But that’s just my opinion.
OR perhaps C.O., declare victory now before it’s trashed purposely for the enemy and their media handlers to call it a loss in the new year.
OR do we HAVE to have the media decide everything for us?
manny:
Saddam was deposed in May of 2003, which was the original objective of an issue that had been ongoing since the 1990’s.
The al-Quaida foreign insurgents who tried to move into the vaccum failed when the Iraqi people voted power for themselves and very clearly rejected militant Islamism.
Surely, even you cannot support a movement which calls the president-elect of the US a ‘house negro.’
Militant Islamism and your brand of marxism have once again failed in its alliance to subjugate people’s inherent freedom.
To all … whenever somebody uses the term neo-con, remember that it is a marxist sentiment behind that terminology.
Classic liberals, those who understand compassion comes from the individual, have been given the neo-con label by the marxist state-controls-all proponents.
Do not fall for this name-calling and redefining of the inherent good of humanity. In fact, resist anybody’s desire to redefine who you are, especially the attempts by the obviously loony left (as opposed to sane left).
Iraq will have another election this spring and it is the will of the people, not the marxists and their radical Islamist proxies, who will carry the day.
I suppose we can now expect a right wingnut blogburst declaring a Bush Balances the Budget Day.
From our lefty posters, how dare we declare a -GASP!- Victory in Iraq!
Just like it used to be “everybody knows the earth is flat!” and a whole host of other “everybody knows ______”, “everybody knows” Victory in Iraq is impossible. The leaders of the Democratic Party agreed with the leaders of the Baathists and Al Qaeda and the lickspittle propagandists in the American MSM that “everybody knows, victory in Iraq is impossible.”
Thank God that George Bush, the US Armed Forces and some allies and the majority of the Iraqi people disagreed.
“I suppose we can now expect a right wingnut blogburst declaring a Bush Balances the Budget Day.”
No, Manny, that won’t happen, as the budget isn’t balanced. The Iraq War, on the other hand, did end a few months ago, so declaration of victory is now reasonable. If you have good arguments to the contrary, let’s hear them, since you haven’t made any so far.
set you free – thanks for your excellent post; astute and accurate comments. Thanks again.
The need for solidarity during the war was the reason so many conservatives gave Bush a pass on all his expanded government spending such as no child left behind and seniors drug plans. Of course Bush gets no credit for these from the left – just criticism for a deficit. History will show that Bush was very much a centrist president like his father and Nixon, not the rabid knuckle-dragging right winger the media makes him out to be.
Hmmm….according to this website there have been 14 US fatalities in Iraq so far this month. That’s 0.64 deaths per day. http://icasualties.org/oif/
But don’t worry. Members of the US Armed Forces, some bloggers 10,000 miles away from the action have declared this to be VI Day. So when you’re on patrol tonight in Baghdad, Fallujah or wherever, feel free to let down your guard. Because some keyboard warriors back home have declared that the WAR IS OVER!
Why today, you ask? Good question! Maybe because some folks consider 0.64 deaths per day to be “peace”? I don’t know, but maybe the geniuses who came up with this idea will have an answer for you. After all, they *are* bloggers!
No, your president doesn’t know anything about this. Neither do your generals or strategists. But those morons are the reason you’re stuck in Iraq 6 years later. So lay down your arms and rejoice in the fact that the chickenhawks have declared “Peace in our time”!
Bloggers–is there anything they can’t do?
JP: Is there anything an ignorant and cynical person, such as yourself, cannot say?
As has been said, you are obviously someone who has been free all your life, so you can now ignorantly choose to spit on it. But liberty matters, freedom matters, and all praise goes to the US and its allies for enabling the Iraqi people to regain their freedom and take charge of their own country.
We, the people, have declared this day as a symbol of that freedom. Stick that in your hat and remember: freedom matters.
“We, the people..”
My, that’s awfully grandiose of you, ET.
LOL
This is just Kate and the right bloggers trying to tell their followers that Victory in Iraq has been achieved before Bush’s term is over so the they can set themselves up to go on about how Bush won the war.
You see they need to do this so that when Iraq continues to be a total mess after Bush is gone they can complain about Obama screwing it up when he should have left it alone because it was a war that had already been won.
Of course this is not a victorious war because it’s not a war, no one really knows what it is and in the future I don’t think anyone will have an explanation for what the heck happened.
There’s little doubt that Iraq is largely responsible for the financial crisis. The idea that all the financial turmoil is worth it because a dictator was removed or because there will be no more torturous wedding days of death for virgin Kurdish brides is absurd. IF that’s the case, why doesn’t Kate have a permanent ‘Map of Injustices’ on the left side bar showing all countries where there are brutal dictators. Then the President would know where to send the troops next.
Thanks,
sL
Mark my words.
Thanks Kate,,,,,,,Victory in Iraq, who would have thunk it ?
God Bless You Conservative Canadians…..
,
No, JP, it’s not grandiose; it’s a statement of fact. People exist; people accomplish things, and due credit has to be given to these accomplishments.
You may wish to deny such credit – credit to the American and coalition troops, credit to the Iraqi people who have themselves rejected dictatorship and chosen freedom, and credit, yes, credit, to the people who have supported this war for freedom.
You choose instead, to sneer at such actions. You choose to spit on freedom. [That’s what a pompous statement such as LOL means; it is an act-of spitting’. On freedom. That’s your choice.
ratt, you aren’t making any sense. I suggest that you read the link and acknowledge a few facts: that the war was a just war; that the agenda was to move Islamic fascism back into its causal site, the tribal dictatorships of the ME; and, by enabling a democracy in their midst, to ‘crack the tribal wall’ and enable democracy to emerge in the ME and thus, destroy fascism.
This has been a success; the Iraqi people have a constitution, a rule of law, elections. Islamic fascism has been moved into the ME and is being actually confronted – by Muslims – who reject its nihilistic violence.
You state that there is ‘little doubt that Iraq is largely responsible for the financial crisis. What an incredibly ignorant statement. Don’t you know anything about banks, mortgages and bonds? Don’t you know anything about the enormous shifts in global financial and economic markets with the emergence of the middle class economies of China and India? Iraq has and had nothing to do with the global financial crisis.
I find it puzzling that both JP and Ratt, since they are against the Iraq War, which had a specific agenda against Islamic fascism, would prefer to have Islamic fascism increase in power and spread over the globe rather than have it cut off at its root cause. Why are you both so hostile to freedom?
my apologies – I wasn’t referring to Ratt but to the post of Slevin.
‘There’s little doubt that Iraq is largely responsible for the financial crisis.’
Just think: had the US stayed out of Iraq, every cent that the economic travesties of the last two decades would require to erase could now be shoveled down that particular rat hole. Congress would already have the money in its hot little hands. Bailing out Detroit? Chump change. AIG? Take twice as much as you need. Bad mortgages? Uncle Sam will hold ’em all! So long as you you know it’s still all Bush’s fault, we can afford just about any kind of stupidity you want. Everything would be so much better.
And those poor deluded fools on the right wouldn’t be trying to push the fatuous nonsense that getting rid of mass killings and rape rooms and plastic shredders and payments to support terrorists has nothing to do with the American government forcing banks to loan money to those with a demonstrated inability to pay it back.
Nice to see a victory instead of helicopters fleeing with people hanging off them. To young people you have no idea of how bad that was for American moral in the years after Vietnam. God Bless America for keeping most of these terrorists away from North America. For those brave men who gave there hopes plus lives away. To the Veterans who left hearth & home to fight against fanatics. How can you thank the people of a debt you can never pay back?
For those lefty’s who think Cannada had nothing to do there , your dreaming. The two closest Militaries on the Planet, is Canada & the US forces.
Canada’s secret war in Iraq http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8110
“according to this website there have been 14 US fatalities in Iraq so far this month. That’s 0.64 deaths per day.”
JP: Just so you know, half of those deaths were non-combat and not a sign of increased or sustained violence in Iraq. 7 deaths are nothing to be happy about, but we should at least try to get our facts right.
The interesting thing about the heat coming from the nay-sayers here is that not even do most Democrats in Washington (including the President-elect) any longer agree with their extreme negative position. The few in Congress and the Senate who do agree sound increasingly shrill and desperate.
According to the authoratative, some say neocon, think tank Freedom House, Iraq remains Not Free. Yemen and Jordan are classified as Partly Free. http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=363&year=2008
It is wrong to declare victory with 150,000 of our troops fighting in Iraq, a country that remains less free than even Yemen. You are wrong, ET, I spit on non-freedom.
Hopefully there will be little to no backsliding over the next few years in Iraq and they will continue to modernize their society.
And their girls will attend schools free from vicious attacks.
I want Iraq to be successful because it will really piss off all the naysayers and badmouthers of GW Bush when the history books record that it was Bushes vision (ok so maybe he was bullheaded too) that made it happen.
At a time when shallow creeps like Chretien refused to even offer moral support to him.
Way to go George!
The great Richard Perle, […] ventured this prediction in 2003:
“And a year from now, I’ll be very surprised if there is not some grand square in Baghdad that is named after President Bush.”
Well, well, today you sneer and jeer no more, you freedom haters! The Dick was dead right.
Iraqis could not contain their excitement yesterday as the old central Baghdad square was renamed after George W. Bush in a highly emotional ceremony. Following an ancient Iraqi tradition, an effigy of President Bush was held upside down as a show of respect and then burned to the ground. http://www.tinyrevolution.com/mt/archives/bush-statue.jpg
Collective jubilation reached its peak as the assembled masses broke into Iraq’s new national anthem, “Bush the Babylonian Burning Man.” Throngs of admirers were then allowed to show their gratitude by banging on Bush’s head with their shoes. When the effigy fell head first into the crowds, adoring fans got a chance to pelt it with their own plastic water bottles and spit on it with their own saliva — what a scholar at the Heritage Foundation has already dubbed “The Great Spit of Freedom.” Thousands of grateful Iraqis held up giant signs that read “Death to America,” obviously an innocent misspelling of the words “Our American Hero!” http://www.tinyrevolution.com/mt/archives/002707.html
Folks should have parades anyway.
We don’t have to wait for the Left-wing “community organizers” to arrange any victory parades. We should have our own right-wing “community organizers” to get right-wingers together, just like the Leftist ones do, to have parades and the like.
And spread the word to FOX News, Global News and the blogosphere. They can cover it; to hell with the clearly-biased Leftist MSM.
As I said, bloggers attempting to declare their own VIA day is only due to the fact that the GW is just about gone and they want to try to kick start Fox or other right media to pick it up and get a blind rally going so they can say the war was won by GW before he left office and therefore anything that happens under the new administration isn’t the fault of GW because it’s a war that was already won and done.
GW can sleep on the lawn with the other single celled organisms
No, JP, I retain my view of you; you spit on freedom.
The fact that Iraq has a constitution (May 2006), a rule of law, free elections, and is itself actively engaged in opposing any actions of terrorism within its borders, means – freedom. For some odd reason you don’t acknowledge this significant accomplishment. Why not?
The fact that Iraq is now not merely rebuilding but building and modernizing its cities, means – freedom. As for your link, I suggest that it’s out of date; the Iraqi military and police are, more and more, taking charge of repressing terrorism.
The US ‘150,000 troops’ ‘fighting’ is an incorrect image. Read the links given under the header, for heaven’s sake! The fighting is down to a minimum!
slevin – what is your point, other than to display your own ignorance of both history and economics?
“The fighting is down to a minimum!” = Victory in Iraq Day 11-22-08
?
JP. dizzy…
Guys, don’t bother trying to hit ET, Hate – er, I mean, Kate – and the rest here with reality. Remember the article where a senior Bush administration official said “We create our own reality”? That’s who these guys take their cue from.
You know: “There is no question that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction” “Mission accomplished” – that kind of stuff.
Now, the day after Bush has been burned in effigy in Iraq, we have “Victory in Iraq Day”. Yay!
These guys have been jerking themselves off to their fantasies for eight years that they really can’t tell the difference between their own propaganda and reality. Sad, isn’t it?
What the hell- let’em have a few more months of their fun and games. They’ve really done all the damage they can do (we hope!). Then the adults can take charge and try to pull this truck out of the ditch. Let’s hope they have a tow truck big enough.
It may well be imperative for President Obama to set up a Truth and Reconciliation Board to deal with all the reckless prevarication that’s gone into creating this utter disaster, if only to ensure that such a disgrace never occurs again. That might harsh their buzz a little bit! So let them have their little fantasy playtime now. It’s likely their last chance.
real, JP – why do you assert that Iraq is ‘an utter disaster’?
Why do you view the freeing of a people from a dictatorship, a movement into a democratic structure with a constitution, free elections, and the rule of law – as an ‘utter disaster’? And why are you opposed to the reality of freedom in Iraq? A real situation, not a fictional one.
JP – I strongly suspect that you have no idea of the nature of and the causes of Islamic fascism; you don’t understand that it has been developing for a century, and in particular, since the second world war in the ME. You don’t overturn such a movement which has moved from a political to a religious ideology, in a day or a month or a year.
And, since the other Arab and/or Islamic states are still tribal and haven’t yet moved into democracy, Islamic fascism remains and operates in Iraq, trying to prevent democracy.
real – You also don’t seem to know anything about the nature of a state system; be careful, a state operates by rule of law, not by the Messiah complex. Obama was elected by many people because they were living within a fictional phase of ‘the Messiah brings in change’. That was a fiction, geared with one agenda – to grab the vote and get elected.
Immediately, Obama moved to confront this first phase (getting elected) by changing the PowerPoint Slide. He directly stated that, on this slide (the first year) he is not the Messiah. His cabinet selections are, heavily, from The Past, in particular, the Clinton Past. So much for change.
Oh, and something else, real and JP, Clinton’s refusal to acknowledge the dysfunctional regimes in the ME, with their burgeoning fascism, led to the necessity for the Iraq War. I’d suggest that you think about that, but since you both seem to lack any historical or societal knowledge of the area – I won’t suggest it. Enjoy living in your fictional world.
JP,
I think you need to check your facts and your nomenclature. A Neo-Con (Neo means new in Latin) is a Conservative who became so after embracing then rejecting Liberalism. These commentators here didn’t embrace liberalism… they are Conservatives. Just because something sounds good does not mean that it’s true.
Also, what’s with your goal of diminishing the accomplishments of the Iraqi people? Personally I don’t really care for the Americans who entered the war under false pretenses, but for the Iraqi girls who can go to school, and the Kurds who no longer live in fear of being GASSED by the Baathists (Saddam…fyi), why can’t you accept that serious progress has been made?
Have you ever heard of the Japanese soldiers who 20 years after WW2 were still camped out on pacific islands, ready to fight a war that was over? I think that analogue might suit you well.
Jon
GW can sleep on the lawn with the other single celled organisms
Posted by: snivelin at November 22, 2008 6:48 PM
Evil McChimpyBush can sleep with any form of life he wants, unlike you–sleeping wida fishs
ET
When has democracy been imposed on a tribal society by force before? What are the benchmarks by which we can judge how the present experiment in Iraq is doing?
I’m being kind to you by pretending your trope that Iraq was invaded for ‘democracy’ has any factual basis. It doesn’t. As Alan Greenspan noted Iraq was invaded for oil.
Have you ever heard of morality, ET? The lie I cited above from Cheney about the WMD that he knew for “certain” that Saddam had is representative of all the lies and misleading insinuations told to the American public to get them to go along with the invasion of Iraq – er, sorry, the ‘regime change’– er, sorry, the ‘disarming of Saddam’. Basic morality tell us that good cannot follow from an action based on lies.
Why did they lie? Guess ’cause no-one would support the ‘roadmap to democracy and freedom’ or whatever nonsense you’re trying to retail here, if they were told the straight goods.
Your pie in the sky ideas are far from realization. Nice though, that you consent to have so many others fight for them. Or are you posting from Iraq?
As for all the Obama/Clinton stuff. Yes, yes, we know you’re a dyed inthe wool partisan who will go to any lengths to defend ‘your side’. Just another ‘party over country’ fanatic, gobbling falsehoods from his masters and defecating them in all directions as he goes down defending the most hated president in the history of the USA. Yay!
According to the AP article (dead tree)that I just saw, those were Mookie Al Sadr’s supporters burning Bush in effigy… obviously typical non-partisan Iraqis, no? with no vested interest in upsetting the newly emerging order in Iraq.
Whatever else is going on in Iraq, don’t credit these buffoons with representing the will of all the citizens there.
I assert that today, November 22, 2008, is in fact NOT Victory in Iraq Day. Why bloggers, why are you making this up out of whole cloth? How does this lie benefit YOU? Besides giving your leftist enemies ammunition galore I mean…
“It may well be imperative for President Obama to set up a Truth and Reconciliation Board”
Well, that’d hardly be surprising: with Maobama’s hard left socialist extremist background and mentors, pulling off a Stalinist move like that would certainly be in character.
Perhaps he could first start by putting the drive-by media on the dock, for their utter complicity in failing to report the true authors of the subprime mess, and failing to provide unbiased coverage of obama’s links to terrorists, racist america haters, indicted felons, et al.
As for WMD, “real”, perhaps you might recall that ol’ saddam was in breach of 14 UN regulations concerning that topic, and he wouldn’t comply. If he had, perhaps there would have been no 2003 invasion. Regardless, he is worm food now, and perhaps those several thousand Kurds he gassed (with nonexistent WMDs, of course) may rest easier.
As for “Iraq for oil”, stretch your brain a bit: the US could have had far easier access to iraq’s oil if they had only eased up on trade restrictions, and not fought to unseat hussein. And, too, if you want to do some interesting reading on who really benefited from iraq’s oil, try googling “TotalFinaElf, Desmarais, Power Corp”, and, “Jean Cretien”.
mhb23re
at gmail d0t calm
real- again, you need to study history and political theory.
First, democracy can’t be imposed. It has never and can never be imposed on any society, for the basic reason that democracy is a political mode that emerges from within the society, from the people, to represent the people.
What Bush did was to release the Iraqi people from a dictatorship – something you and JP refuse to acknowledge – and this fact enabled the Iraqi people, themselves, to set up their own democracy.
You don’t need to be ‘kind to me’; I suggest, however, that you be ‘kind’ to yourself. That means that you do some research into history and political theory. No, Iraq was not invaded for oil. What a simplistic notion. After all, the ME states have no choice but to both rely on western technology to extract their oil, since they reject education and science, but, they have to rely on western industrialism to use, i.e., purchase, their oil.
Iraq was invaded to stop Islamic fascism, which had diverted from its origin and cause, which is political tribalism, and was moving into the west as a rootless utopian ideology. Bush moved it back into the ME, which had to confront the fact that political tribalism was creating a fascist population.
I suspect, strongly, that you have no understanding of tribalism. Or of fascism. Or the societal structures of the ME.
Morality? The first duty of a leader of a state is to protect his state; Bush did that. As for the theory of WMD, that was a factual belief, and the UN sanctions enabled that belief to continue as fact (why was Saddam Hussein sanctioned in the first place, and why did he reject inspections?). But the WMD was only an ‘efficient cause’ for the real agenda – which was to free the Iraqi people from a dictatorship to enable them to set up a democratic state…within the Islamic world.
After all, Bush has been talking, for some years now, about the agenda of enabling democracy in the ME. Nothing private or silent about such an agenda. Perhaps you don’t read or listen to his speeches.
Are you serious? Are you denying that now, Iraq is a democracy? That it doesn’t have a constitution, rule of law, free elections? Really?
The fact that you hate Bush is your problem. I think that history will show his actions in the ME as an exemplary and courageous step that stopped Islamic fascism in the world.
real- I suggest that you are the partisan here; you don’t seem to know much about history or theory and simply follow the crowd. Ah well.
JP – you can assert anything you want. That’s freedom. But a ‘real freedom’ has to be grounded in reality. The reason why so many of us are acknowledging Iraqi freedom is because it exists. In reality. They have moved into a democratic situation – and are taking control of their future as a people, not as slaves of a dictator.
“The reason why so many of us are acknowledging Iraqi freedom is because it exists.”
Maybe you should let Freedom House know that “fact”. Until then please don’t insult our troops by insisting that the war/occupation/police action/whatever is over. Everyone knows that’s a lie.
Good.
I’m proud to be American every day, but our victory in Iraq makes me even prouder. The citizens of all the countries in the coalition of the willing should be equally proud. Those who opposed this should be hanging their heads in shame.
This invasion and occupation was financed entirely on credit to be paid by the next generation.
This violates the precept of no taxation without representation, a precept upon which America was founded.
It hardly needs to be said that while the neo-cons were focused exclusively on Iraq and the Middle East, America went down the drain. I and many others believe that was by design, and that by ignoring the events that have resulted in the “diversity recession” the cheerleaders of foreign wars implicitly approve of both illegal immigration and trillion dollar bailouts. In short, the Iraq war was a deliberate cover for the Bush Administration to ruin America while nobody was watching.
Will Obama or a subsequent administration hold neo-cons financially liable for the Iraq war?
Will bloggers who knowlingly spread misinformation about the Iraq war be rounded up and have their assets seized to pay for the war they so aggressively pursued?
I’ve seen stranger things happen this week.
Congratulations to the U.S.,their allies and the Iraqi people. They have a hard won and well deserved victory.
oh don’t be such a shortsighted twat
the American taxpayer paid for putting a stop to the capers being cut by the Barbary pirates…which was arguably a very very good thing
NeoCons Owe Us Money, thought it was the democrats with Franks, Carter and Clinton that were the base case of the economic disaster by removing the regulatory controls. Now bloggers have to pay for the Iragi war, who are these powerful people? The war seems to be over in Iraq and the US and Iraq democracy were the victors I thought. Aren’t the democratic congress approving the bailout?
By the way neo-con means liberals who have become new conservatives after rejecting the liberal mindset. That’s not us we have always been conservative.
Think you are looking for rabble.com.
nonsense, neocon. Your outline is logically skewed.
It’s wrong to claim, as you do, that a current cost that sets up an immediate result via a long term debt is equivalent to ‘taxation without representation’. Invalid analogy.
Debts, after all, include all infrastructural costs such as roads, buildings, hospitals, schools and so on, which are all financially set up to enable a population to have the results now, and spread the costs over a number of years.
As for Iraq, it was, in my view, a correct action to take. Effectively, Bush has kept America safe since 2001, an impressive result. And above all, the result of that war was to move Islamic fascism from its diversion into the West, back where it should be. In the Middle East.
It is the Islamic states who must, themselves, confront the destructive result (fascism) that emerges in their own conflict between the need to modernize Islam and the ME political systems..and their own agenda of refusing such modernization.
America down the drain? Again – nope. How about some empirical points to support your opinion?
Are you seriously suggesting that Bush intended to allow America to ‘go down the drain’? Why?
How on earth can you correlate ‘illegal immigration’ and ‘trillion dollar payouts’ (?) with Islamic fascism and the Iraq war? Such a correlation requires lassoos that are beyond any actual reality.
Illegal immigration, by the way, has been going on for a long time; I’m certainly opposed to it, and the key problem is…Mexico. It’s Mexico that is offloading its impoverished class on to the Americans rather than providing an economic, social and educational infrastructure for these people. Then, these illegal immigrants send a lot of money ‘back home’ to support their relatives and that lets Mexico even further off the hook for any support for these people. Did you ever think of that?
So, a zillion cheers for America and Iraq, for winning their freedom against dictatorship, for setting up a democracy with a constitution and election, and thus, for setting up a structure that will smother the emergence of fascism.
What ET said.
🙂 and…
Congrats USA and IRAQ!
No more torturous wedding days of death for virgin Kurdish brides. As they’re now not being kidnapped to give to a psycho son to become a bloodied and tortured play toy for it’s perverse sexual gratification.
On the very day she was to have honor as a bride and become a wife. Note: the snappy progressives couldn’t care any less about this, easier to hate Christians and Jews I suppose.
CONGRATS IRAQ AND USA.
Thanks for this post, Kate. VI day recognition is long over due.
Silicon Valley Jim:”Those who opposed this should be hanging their heads in shame.”
Liberal ex-PM Jeancula Chretien: Sidewinder.
http://archives.vigile.net/05-4/13-cornichon-jeancula.jpg
“Jean Chretien and the Sidewinder Report
Jean Chretien supported the powerful third world bloc of the UN. He supported France, Germany and Russia whose oil and debt interests in Iraq apparently …
http://www.primetimecrime.com/contributing/2005/20050120Gray.htm”
Politically incorrect is right. I wish I could post an article on a bulletin board at work, but I fear that would be considered political. Regardless, there is no room on the bulletin board because of all the environmental information pamphlets.
Victory in Iraq is something that all Americans can be proud of.
Congratulations to America and Iraq!
Some other countries that have contributed to the war in Iraq:
Albania, Armenia, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Moldova, Mongolia, Poland, Romania, South Korea, and the United Kingdom.
It is victory – no doubt about it. Now lets hope that the Iraqi’s don’t screw it up. I still say that the fat bastard Muktada al Sadr has to be taken out. The US still has to ensure that Iran and Syria keep their hands off of Iraq.
Well done America and the coalition of the willing. You have struck a major blow to tyranny and terror. The rest of that region which is run by brutal tyrants is taking notice and their citizens I’m sure, are looking at a democratic Iraq with envy.
Exactly. Call me cynical, but if American interests in Iraq still have to be enforced by Americans — i.e., if the Iraqis are not ready to deal with regional threats on their own — is it not a bit premature to be declaring Victory in Iraq?
Wasn’t the whole point to assist the Iraqis to build and assume control of their own nation?
Not to say the US has not taken care of business there. But to talk about “victory” in a part of the world where enmities last for centuries seems kind of absurd to me.
And here I thought victory in Iraq day was back in May, 2003. Is this a different Iraq?
I assume I’ll be roasted alive for playing devil’s advocate here, but am I the only one on the right who is uncomfortable with such a decisive claim being made?
How the hell is victory against terrorism in a country measured anyways? Has all thr fighting stopped, is the enemy vanquished? I haven’t seen any reports of soldiers and citizens celebrating in the streets. I certainly haven’t heard of any of these chickenshit terrorists turning themselves and their weapons in on mass or their leaders signing any peace pacts. Are we not still just a couple of explosions away from much more death and warfare?
Either the MSM is more corrupt than even I suspected or I have finally managed to entirely miss one of Kate’s parodies.
Look, I entirely understand the need to support and acknowledge these brave men and women, especially when so many of those they die to protect treat them with disdain, but is pulling an arbitrary V-Day date out of our asses the right way to do it? I say it actually minimizes the sacrifice of those still over there in harm’s way today.
Only thing I can say Darrell is that they stayed in Japan and Germany long past their victory parades and now look at them. IF the media boy-king of the US does pull out too soon I would expect Iran and Syrian to stomp them down to levels far worse than what saddam had them down at.
But that’s just my opinion.
OR perhaps C.O., declare victory now before it’s trashed purposely for the enemy and their media handlers to call it a loss in the new year.
OR do we HAVE to have the media decide everything for us?
manny:
Saddam was deposed in May of 2003, which was the original objective of an issue that had been ongoing since the 1990’s.
The al-Quaida foreign insurgents who tried to move into the vaccum failed when the Iraqi people voted power for themselves and very clearly rejected militant Islamism.
Surely, even you cannot support a movement which calls the president-elect of the US a ‘house negro.’
Militant Islamism and your brand of marxism have once again failed in its alliance to subjugate people’s inherent freedom.
To all … whenever somebody uses the term neo-con, remember that it is a marxist sentiment behind that terminology.
Classic liberals, those who understand compassion comes from the individual, have been given the neo-con label by the marxist state-controls-all proponents.
Do not fall for this name-calling and redefining of the inherent good of humanity. In fact, resist anybody’s desire to redefine who you are, especially the attempts by the obviously loony left (as opposed to sane left).
Iraq will have another election this spring and it is the will of the people, not the marxists and their radical Islamist proxies, who will carry the day.
I suppose we can now expect a right wingnut blogburst declaring a Bush Balances the Budget Day.
From our lefty posters, how dare we declare a -GASP!- Victory in Iraq!
Just like it used to be “everybody knows the earth is flat!” and a whole host of other “everybody knows ______”, “everybody knows” Victory in Iraq is impossible. The leaders of the Democratic Party agreed with the leaders of the Baathists and Al Qaeda and the lickspittle propagandists in the American MSM that “everybody knows, victory in Iraq is impossible.”
Thank God that George Bush, the US Armed Forces and some allies and the majority of the Iraqi people disagreed.
“I suppose we can now expect a right wingnut blogburst declaring a Bush Balances the Budget Day.”
No, Manny, that won’t happen, as the budget isn’t balanced. The Iraq War, on the other hand, did end a few months ago, so declaration of victory is now reasonable. If you have good arguments to the contrary, let’s hear them, since you haven’t made any so far.
set you free – thanks for your excellent post; astute and accurate comments. Thanks again.
The need for solidarity during the war was the reason so many conservatives gave Bush a pass on all his expanded government spending such as no child left behind and seniors drug plans. Of course Bush gets no credit for these from the left – just criticism for a deficit. History will show that Bush was very much a centrist president like his father and Nixon, not the rabid knuckle-dragging right winger the media makes him out to be.
Hmmm….according to this website there have been 14 US fatalities in Iraq so far this month. That’s 0.64 deaths per day.
http://icasualties.org/oif/
But don’t worry. Members of the US Armed Forces, some bloggers 10,000 miles away from the action have declared this to be VI Day. So when you’re on patrol tonight in Baghdad, Fallujah or wherever, feel free to let down your guard. Because some keyboard warriors back home have declared that the WAR IS OVER!
Why today, you ask? Good question! Maybe because some folks consider 0.64 deaths per day to be “peace”? I don’t know, but maybe the geniuses who came up with this idea will have an answer for you. After all, they *are* bloggers!
No, your president doesn’t know anything about this. Neither do your generals or strategists. But those morons are the reason you’re stuck in Iraq 6 years later. So lay down your arms and rejoice in the fact that the chickenhawks have declared “Peace in our time”!
Bloggers–is there anything they can’t do?
JP: Is there anything an ignorant and cynical person, such as yourself, cannot say?
As has been said, you are obviously someone who has been free all your life, so you can now ignorantly choose to spit on it. But liberty matters, freedom matters, and all praise goes to the US and its allies for enabling the Iraqi people to regain their freedom and take charge of their own country.
We, the people, have declared this day as a symbol of that freedom. Stick that in your hat and remember: freedom matters.
“We, the people..”
My, that’s awfully grandiose of you, ET.
LOL
This is just Kate and the right bloggers trying to tell their followers that Victory in Iraq has been achieved before Bush’s term is over so the they can set themselves up to go on about how Bush won the war.
You see they need to do this so that when Iraq continues to be a total mess after Bush is gone they can complain about Obama screwing it up when he should have left it alone because it was a war that had already been won.
Of course this is not a victorious war because it’s not a war, no one really knows what it is and in the future I don’t think anyone will have an explanation for what the heck happened.
There’s little doubt that Iraq is largely responsible for the financial crisis. The idea that all the financial turmoil is worth it because a dictator was removed or because there will be no more torturous wedding days of death for virgin Kurdish brides is absurd. IF that’s the case, why doesn’t Kate have a permanent ‘Map of Injustices’ on the left side bar showing all countries where there are brutal dictators. Then the President would know where to send the troops next.
Thanks,
sL
Mark my words.
Thanks Kate,,,,,,,Victory in Iraq, who would have thunk it ?
God Bless You Conservative Canadians…..
,
No, JP, it’s not grandiose; it’s a statement of fact. People exist; people accomplish things, and due credit has to be given to these accomplishments.
You may wish to deny such credit – credit to the American and coalition troops, credit to the Iraqi people who have themselves rejected dictatorship and chosen freedom, and credit, yes, credit, to the people who have supported this war for freedom.
You choose instead, to sneer at such actions. You choose to spit on freedom. [That’s what a pompous statement such as LOL means; it is an act-of spitting’. On freedom. That’s your choice.
ratt, you aren’t making any sense. I suggest that you read the link and acknowledge a few facts: that the war was a just war; that the agenda was to move Islamic fascism back into its causal site, the tribal dictatorships of the ME; and, by enabling a democracy in their midst, to ‘crack the tribal wall’ and enable democracy to emerge in the ME and thus, destroy fascism.
This has been a success; the Iraqi people have a constitution, a rule of law, elections. Islamic fascism has been moved into the ME and is being actually confronted – by Muslims – who reject its nihilistic violence.
You state that there is ‘little doubt that Iraq is largely responsible for the financial crisis. What an incredibly ignorant statement. Don’t you know anything about banks, mortgages and bonds? Don’t you know anything about the enormous shifts in global financial and economic markets with the emergence of the middle class economies of China and India? Iraq has and had nothing to do with the global financial crisis.
I find it puzzling that both JP and Ratt, since they are against the Iraq War, which had a specific agenda against Islamic fascism, would prefer to have Islamic fascism increase in power and spread over the globe rather than have it cut off at its root cause. Why are you both so hostile to freedom?
my apologies – I wasn’t referring to Ratt but to the post of Slevin.
‘There’s little doubt that Iraq is largely responsible for the financial crisis.’
Just think: had the US stayed out of Iraq, every cent that the economic travesties of the last two decades would require to erase could now be shoveled down that particular rat hole. Congress would already have the money in its hot little hands. Bailing out Detroit? Chump change. AIG? Take twice as much as you need. Bad mortgages? Uncle Sam will hold ’em all! So long as you you know it’s still all Bush’s fault, we can afford just about any kind of stupidity you want. Everything would be so much better.
And those poor deluded fools on the right wouldn’t be trying to push the fatuous nonsense that getting rid of mass killings and rape rooms and plastic shredders and payments to support terrorists has nothing to do with the American government forcing banks to loan money to those with a demonstrated inability to pay it back.
Nice to see a victory instead of helicopters fleeing with people hanging off them. To young people you have no idea of how bad that was for American moral in the years after Vietnam. God Bless America for keeping most of these terrorists away from North America. For those brave men who gave there hopes plus lives away. To the Veterans who left hearth & home to fight against fanatics. How can you thank the people of a debt you can never pay back?
For those lefty’s who think Cannada had nothing to do there , your dreaming. The two closest Militaries on the Planet, is Canada & the US forces.
Canada’s secret war in Iraq
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8110
“according to this website there have been 14 US fatalities in Iraq so far this month. That’s 0.64 deaths per day.”
JP: Just so you know, half of those deaths were non-combat and not a sign of increased or sustained violence in Iraq. 7 deaths are nothing to be happy about, but we should at least try to get our facts right.
The interesting thing about the heat coming from the nay-sayers here is that not even do most Democrats in Washington (including the President-elect) any longer agree with their extreme negative position. The few in Congress and the Senate who do agree sound increasingly shrill and desperate.
According to the authoratative, some say neocon, think tank Freedom House, Iraq remains Not Free. Yemen and Jordan are classified as Partly Free.
http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=363&year=2008
It is wrong to declare victory with 150,000 of our troops fighting in Iraq, a country that remains less free than even Yemen. You are wrong, ET, I spit on non-freedom.
Hopefully there will be little to no backsliding over the next few years in Iraq and they will continue to modernize their society.
And their girls will attend schools free from vicious attacks.
I want Iraq to be successful because it will really piss off all the naysayers and badmouthers of GW Bush when the history books record that it was Bushes vision (ok so maybe he was bullheaded too) that made it happen.
At a time when shallow creeps like Chretien refused to even offer moral support to him.
Way to go George!
The great Richard Perle, […] ventured this prediction in 2003:
“And a year from now, I’ll be very surprised if there is not some grand square in Baghdad that is named after President Bush.”
Well, well, today you sneer and jeer no more, you freedom haters! The Dick was dead right.
Iraqis could not contain their excitement yesterday as the old central Baghdad square was renamed after George W. Bush in a highly emotional ceremony. Following an ancient Iraqi tradition, an effigy of President Bush was held upside down as a show of respect and then burned to the ground.
http://www.tinyrevolution.com/mt/archives/bush-statue.jpg
Collective jubilation reached its peak as the assembled masses broke into Iraq’s new national anthem, “Bush the Babylonian Burning Man.” Throngs of admirers were then allowed to show their gratitude by banging on Bush’s head with their shoes. When the effigy fell head first into the crowds, adoring fans got a chance to pelt it with their own plastic water bottles and spit on it with their own saliva — what a scholar at the Heritage Foundation has already dubbed “The Great Spit of Freedom.” Thousands of grateful Iraqis held up giant signs that read “Death to America,” obviously an innocent misspelling of the words “Our American Hero!”
http://www.tinyrevolution.com/mt/archives/002707.html
Folks should have parades anyway.
We don’t have to wait for the Left-wing “community organizers” to arrange any victory parades. We should have our own right-wing “community organizers” to get right-wingers together, just like the Leftist ones do, to have parades and the like.
And spread the word to FOX News, Global News and the blogosphere. They can cover it; to hell with the clearly-biased Leftist MSM.
As I said, bloggers attempting to declare their own VIA day is only due to the fact that the GW is just about gone and they want to try to kick start Fox or other right media to pick it up and get a blind rally going so they can say the war was won by GW before he left office and therefore anything that happens under the new administration isn’t the fault of GW because it’s a war that was already won and done.
GW can sleep on the lawn with the other single celled organisms
No, JP, I retain my view of you; you spit on freedom.
The fact that Iraq has a constitution (May 2006), a rule of law, free elections, and is itself actively engaged in opposing any actions of terrorism within its borders, means – freedom. For some odd reason you don’t acknowledge this significant accomplishment. Why not?
The fact that Iraq is now not merely rebuilding but building and modernizing its cities, means – freedom. As for your link, I suggest that it’s out of date; the Iraqi military and police are, more and more, taking charge of repressing terrorism.
The US ‘150,000 troops’ ‘fighting’ is an incorrect image. Read the links given under the header, for heaven’s sake! The fighting is down to a minimum!
slevin – what is your point, other than to display your own ignorance of both history and economics?
“The fighting is down to a minimum!” = Victory in Iraq Day 11-22-08
?
JP. dizzy…
Guys, don’t bother trying to hit ET, Hate – er, I mean, Kate – and the rest here with reality. Remember the article where a senior Bush administration official said “We create our own reality”? That’s who these guys take their cue from.
You know: “There is no question that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction” “Mission accomplished” – that kind of stuff.
Now, the day after Bush has been burned in effigy in Iraq, we have “Victory in Iraq Day”. Yay!
These guys have been jerking themselves off to their fantasies for eight years that they really can’t tell the difference between their own propaganda and reality. Sad, isn’t it?
What the hell- let’em have a few more months of their fun and games. They’ve really done all the damage they can do (we hope!). Then the adults can take charge and try to pull this truck out of the ditch. Let’s hope they have a tow truck big enough.
It may well be imperative for President Obama to set up a Truth and Reconciliation Board to deal with all the reckless prevarication that’s gone into creating this utter disaster, if only to ensure that such a disgrace never occurs again. That might harsh their buzz a little bit! So let them have their little fantasy playtime now. It’s likely their last chance.
real, JP – why do you assert that Iraq is ‘an utter disaster’?
Why do you view the freeing of a people from a dictatorship, a movement into a democratic structure with a constitution, free elections, and the rule of law – as an ‘utter disaster’? And why are you opposed to the reality of freedom in Iraq? A real situation, not a fictional one.
JP – I strongly suspect that you have no idea of the nature of and the causes of Islamic fascism; you don’t understand that it has been developing for a century, and in particular, since the second world war in the ME. You don’t overturn such a movement which has moved from a political to a religious ideology, in a day or a month or a year.
And, since the other Arab and/or Islamic states are still tribal and haven’t yet moved into democracy, Islamic fascism remains and operates in Iraq, trying to prevent democracy.
real – You also don’t seem to know anything about the nature of a state system; be careful, a state operates by rule of law, not by the Messiah complex. Obama was elected by many people because they were living within a fictional phase of ‘the Messiah brings in change’. That was a fiction, geared with one agenda – to grab the vote and get elected.
Immediately, Obama moved to confront this first phase (getting elected) by changing the PowerPoint Slide. He directly stated that, on this slide (the first year) he is not the Messiah. His cabinet selections are, heavily, from The Past, in particular, the Clinton Past. So much for change.
Oh, and something else, real and JP, Clinton’s refusal to acknowledge the dysfunctional regimes in the ME, with their burgeoning fascism, led to the necessity for the Iraq War. I’d suggest that you think about that, but since you both seem to lack any historical or societal knowledge of the area – I won’t suggest it. Enjoy living in your fictional world.
JP,
I think you need to check your facts and your nomenclature. A Neo-Con (Neo means new in Latin) is a Conservative who became so after embracing then rejecting Liberalism. These commentators here didn’t embrace liberalism… they are Conservatives. Just because something sounds good does not mean that it’s true.
Also, what’s with your goal of diminishing the accomplishments of the Iraqi people? Personally I don’t really care for the Americans who entered the war under false pretenses, but for the Iraqi girls who can go to school, and the Kurds who no longer live in fear of being GASSED by the Baathists (Saddam…fyi), why can’t you accept that serious progress has been made?
Have you ever heard of the Japanese soldiers who 20 years after WW2 were still camped out on pacific islands, ready to fight a war that was over? I think that analogue might suit you well.
Jon
GW can sleep on the lawn with the other single celled organisms
Posted by: snivelin at November 22, 2008 6:48 PM
Evil McChimpyBush can sleep with any form of life he wants, unlike you–sleeping wida fishs
ET
When has democracy been imposed on a tribal society by force before? What are the benchmarks by which we can judge how the present experiment in Iraq is doing?
I’m being kind to you by pretending your trope that Iraq was invaded for ‘democracy’ has any factual basis. It doesn’t. As Alan Greenspan noted Iraq was invaded for oil.
Have you ever heard of morality, ET? The lie I cited above from Cheney about the WMD that he knew for “certain” that Saddam had is representative of all the lies and misleading insinuations told to the American public to get them to go along with the invasion of Iraq – er, sorry, the ‘regime change’– er, sorry, the ‘disarming of Saddam’. Basic morality tell us that good cannot follow from an action based on lies.
Why did they lie? Guess ’cause no-one would support the ‘roadmap to democracy and freedom’ or whatever nonsense you’re trying to retail here, if they were told the straight goods.
Your pie in the sky ideas are far from realization. Nice though, that you consent to have so many others fight for them. Or are you posting from Iraq?
As for all the Obama/Clinton stuff. Yes, yes, we know you’re a dyed inthe wool partisan who will go to any lengths to defend ‘your side’. Just another ‘party over country’ fanatic, gobbling falsehoods from his masters and defecating them in all directions as he goes down defending the most hated president in the history of the USA. Yay!
According to the AP article (dead tree)that I just saw, those were Mookie Al Sadr’s supporters burning Bush in effigy… obviously typical non-partisan Iraqis, no? with no vested interest in upsetting the newly emerging order in Iraq.
Whatever else is going on in Iraq, don’t credit these buffoons with representing the will of all the citizens there.
I assert that today, November 22, 2008, is in fact NOT Victory in Iraq Day. Why bloggers, why are you making this up out of whole cloth? How does this lie benefit YOU? Besides giving your leftist enemies ammunition galore I mean…
“It may well be imperative for President Obama to set up a Truth and Reconciliation Board”
Well, that’d hardly be surprising: with Maobama’s hard left socialist extremist background and mentors, pulling off a Stalinist move like that would certainly be in character.
Perhaps he could first start by putting the drive-by media on the dock, for their utter complicity in failing to report the true authors of the subprime mess, and failing to provide unbiased coverage of obama’s links to terrorists, racist america haters, indicted felons, et al.
As for WMD, “real”, perhaps you might recall that ol’ saddam was in breach of 14 UN regulations concerning that topic, and he wouldn’t comply. If he had, perhaps there would have been no 2003 invasion. Regardless, he is worm food now, and perhaps those several thousand Kurds he gassed (with nonexistent WMDs, of course) may rest easier.
As for “Iraq for oil”, stretch your brain a bit: the US could have had far easier access to iraq’s oil if they had only eased up on trade restrictions, and not fought to unseat hussein. And, too, if you want to do some interesting reading on who really benefited from iraq’s oil, try googling “TotalFinaElf, Desmarais, Power Corp”, and, “Jean Cretien”.
mhb23re
at gmail d0t calm
real- again, you need to study history and political theory.
First, democracy can’t be imposed. It has never and can never be imposed on any society, for the basic reason that democracy is a political mode that emerges from within the society, from the people, to represent the people.
What Bush did was to release the Iraqi people from a dictatorship – something you and JP refuse to acknowledge – and this fact enabled the Iraqi people, themselves, to set up their own democracy.
You don’t need to be ‘kind to me’; I suggest, however, that you be ‘kind’ to yourself. That means that you do some research into history and political theory. No, Iraq was not invaded for oil. What a simplistic notion. After all, the ME states have no choice but to both rely on western technology to extract their oil, since they reject education and science, but, they have to rely on western industrialism to use, i.e., purchase, their oil.
Iraq was invaded to stop Islamic fascism, which had diverted from its origin and cause, which is political tribalism, and was moving into the west as a rootless utopian ideology. Bush moved it back into the ME, which had to confront the fact that political tribalism was creating a fascist population.
I suspect, strongly, that you have no understanding of tribalism. Or of fascism. Or the societal structures of the ME.
Morality? The first duty of a leader of a state is to protect his state; Bush did that. As for the theory of WMD, that was a factual belief, and the UN sanctions enabled that belief to continue as fact (why was Saddam Hussein sanctioned in the first place, and why did he reject inspections?). But the WMD was only an ‘efficient cause’ for the real agenda – which was to free the Iraqi people from a dictatorship to enable them to set up a democratic state…within the Islamic world.
After all, Bush has been talking, for some years now, about the agenda of enabling democracy in the ME. Nothing private or silent about such an agenda. Perhaps you don’t read or listen to his speeches.
Are you serious? Are you denying that now, Iraq is a democracy? That it doesn’t have a constitution, rule of law, free elections? Really?
The fact that you hate Bush is your problem. I think that history will show his actions in the ME as an exemplary and courageous step that stopped Islamic fascism in the world.
real- I suggest that you are the partisan here; you don’t seem to know much about history or theory and simply follow the crowd. Ah well.
JP – you can assert anything you want. That’s freedom. But a ‘real freedom’ has to be grounded in reality. The reason why so many of us are acknowledging Iraqi freedom is because it exists. In reality. They have moved into a democratic situation – and are taking control of their future as a people, not as slaves of a dictator.
“The reason why so many of us are acknowledging Iraqi freedom is because it exists.”
Maybe you should let Freedom House know that “fact”. Until then please don’t insult our troops by insisting that the war/occupation/police action/whatever is over. Everyone knows that’s a lie.