Scratch a progressive in Canada’s socialized medical system, and you’ll find a eugenicist;
Dr. Andre Lalonde, executive vice-president of the Society of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of Canada (SOGC), told the Globe and Mail yesterday, “Palin’s decision to keep her baby, knowing he would be born with the condition, may inadvertently influence other women who may lack the necessary emotional and financial support to do the same.”
“The worry is that this will have an implication for abortion issues in Canada,” he said.
Under the facade of “freedom to choose”, Lalonde said that “popular messages” about women like Palin, who choose not to kill their unborn children, “could have detrimental effects on women and their families.”
The apples, they fall not so far from the tree.
The Weekly Standard dusted off this archived piece from 1996 due to the commotion over Trig Palin:
Tucker Carlson, Eugenics, American Style
Testifying before Congress in the spring of 1990, Arkansas state health director Joycelyn Elders took an unusual tack in her defense of legal abortion. “Abortion,” she said, “has had an important, and positive, public- health effect,” in that it has reduced “the number of children afflicted with severe defects.” As evidence, the future surgeon general cited this statistic: “The number of Down’s Syndrome infants in Washington state in 1976 was 64 percent lower than it would have been without legal abortion.”
Her remark went all but unnoticed at the time and has received little attention since, even during Elders’s contentious tenure as surgeon general in the Clinton administration. But it was a significant statement nonetheless, if only because it represents one of the few occasions on which a public health official has publicly acknowledged the eugenic utility of abortion. Terminating a pregnancy, Elders argued, is not simply a difficult personal decision, an agonizing last resort. When guided by public-health objectives, abortion can also be a positive act — a means of improving the species…
Of 22,000 women who received prenatal diagnosis in one 1990 study in Canada, 88 percent of those who found they were carrying a child with Down Syndrome aborted the fetus. Other studies have put the rate of Down Syndrome abortions at about 90 percent, some even higher…
In this country it seems like everyone has “rights”.
I really dont understand why those favoring abortion have somehow got the label “pro-choice”.
They’re really not about choice they’re about killing babies.
I know it must difficult for mothers to be told that their unborn child may be born with a handicap.
However, to even contemplate killing a baby…..
I guess its just evolution right?
Survival of the fittest.
“Rights” in this country, really mean a woman has the right to kill her baby who has no rights.
After my wife’s triple-screen test during her 3rd pregnancy came back with a suggestion of abnormality, her obstetrician was annoyed that we intended to follow through with the pregnancy. That child, our 4 year son, is just fine. Those tests aren’t always accurate in the first place and we wouldn’t consider abortion anyways. The obstetrician clearly advised abortion and his attitude is common today in Canada I regret to inform you all.
“It’s very dark,” said Krista Flint, executive director of the Canadian Down Syndrome Society. “They hear a lot about the medical conditions that are sometimes associated with Down syndrome. They hear about the burden … it places on children and a marriage. They hear about things like shortened life expectancy. They hear a lot about the challenges of a life with Down syndrome.”
So the abortion crowd, who are worried about a Downs syndrome childs shortened life with challenges, feel it’s better to allow no life at all.
You just know the baby’s well-being is uppermost in their minds.
So raising a child with mental or physical challenges just isn’t worth the trouble, is that what the good doctor is trying to say?
“Choice” in the abortion fight only belongs to elitist lefties. The trick is convincing the masses to do as they say and keep them ignorant of what they’re actually doing. Whitewash it all by letting them think they actually have a choice.
That’s why you can watch a cesarean section, hip replacement or open heart surgical procedure on The Learning Channel but never an abortion. They deliberately keep it sanitized so nobody has to think about what it’s really about…that is the ending of a life.
Think of it as perfecting Robespierre’s “Terror and Virtue” guillotine without the public square.
It is again one of the hypocricies of those who lean so far to the left they fall over.
The far left think they champion the rights of the less fortunate, but if it punctures their lifestyle or comfort zone the truth is quite different.
Speaking from personal experience of course.
Tommy Douglas came to a fitting end.He got run over by a bus.Would that be an accident or out of the womb abortion!
So the noble act of welcoming a disabled child is now evil according to this medical “leader”.
I think Andre Lalonde views are down right Satanic and what is most frightening is that I think they are becoming commonplace. John Paul the Great, the last Pope, warned about a culture of death in Western society and this is yet another example.
One day, a doctor like this one might be hovering over your bed saying, “Well this person is so old I don’t believe it is in the interests of society, and themselves of course that we keep feeding her. Administer the Compassionate Death Drugs immediately.”
As for downs syndrome kids, if people don’t want to raise them due to circumstances, there are hundreds of thousands of Christians who would. A friend of mine adopted such a child and five other families wanted to parent her.
There are few unwanted children because there are so many Christians who see even disabled people as gifts from God.
What was that quaint phrase the Nazis used to justify euthanasia of handicapped children? Oh, yeah, “Life unworthy of life.” I can easily imagine that phrase coming out of the mouth of Dr. Andre Lalonde.
Can we see how far Western Civilization has come in cheapening Human Life?
“Pro-choice”, the euphemism for legalized unlimited infanticide;
an ex-husband wins a US Federal Court battle to kill his brain-damaged EX-wife by having her pulled off life support, despite her natural parents wanting to assume responsibility for her medical care;
in Europe “voluntary” suicide of the elderly is made legal in Holland.
What is ironic is that the same “progressives” who agree with the above acts also oppose executing convicted murderers. THEIR human life is precious, whereas those of unborn babies and elderly infirm people is not.
Downs Syndrome kids are expensive on the health care costs, on average. The good doctor is thinking of our public health budget. Like any good socialist, he prefers to bend the population to fit the budget, rather than the reverse.
The idea that people should be allowed to -buy- what they need rather than stand in line like cattle to have it issued to them, this seems not to have occurred to him.
I’m sure the good doctor would be in favor of a program to screen for and remove ALL Downs fetuses (feti?) as a purely humanitarian, progressive step.
Because hey, people are stupid. Some fool woman is going to let her mommy hormones get the best of her and bring another drain on the public purse into the world. Such people must be -controlled-.
I have heard these claims that T C Douglas supported eugenics before, usually from Liberals with a very large ‘L’. However, the link here under the words “you’ll find a eugenicist” provides no information pertaining to Douglas whatsoever.
So where is the source for this continuing urban and/or rural legend?
I thought doctors were supposed to “do no harm.”
Yes, I know they would argue the fetus is not included in this, but what about the mother?
Presurring a mother against her will to have an abortion, surely is (potentially) doing harm to her mental health, ne c’est pas?
Apparently pro choice for some means pro your choice to have an abortion, and no other choice.
Here’s Dr. Lalonde’s contact information:
alalonde@sogc.com
phone extension 227
The Society of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of Canada
780 Echo Drive, Ottawa, ON K1S 5R7
Tel: 613-730-4192
or 1-800-561-2416
Fax: 613-730-4314
Please do not annoy the secretary however. She just works there.
“I have heard these claims that T C Douglas supported eugenics before, usually from Liberals with a very large ‘L’. However, the link here under the words “you’ll find a eugenicist” provides no information pertaining to Douglas whatsoever. So where is the source for this continuing urban and/or rural legend?”
3W.smalldeadanimals.com/mt/mt-search.cgi?IncludeBlogs=1&search=TOMMY+DOUGLAS
Lots more reading there…
C
I have a few things to say about this. Dr. Lalonde should be ashamed of himself. What kind of ‘doctor’ is that? There are many programs set up by gov’t to assist and encourage special needs kids.
What many people don’t consider is that you rise to the challenge when faced with this situation. As a mom with a Down’s son (did not find out until birth), I knew our lives would change immediately. Of course I was terrified and sad. But you can choose to be miserable or you can “bloom where you are planted”. It’s one day at a time, and slowly, you become the person you were meant to be. You become more compassionate, more sympathetic to others, and more loving. You see the world through different eyes. You experience life in a fuller and more complete way.
I have only received kind comments throughout all of this, words of encouragement and many times I have heard “You have a beautiful son!” from complete strangers. God sends these people to brighten your day and help you along the way. You find out that you are not alone and there are so many out there who are willing to help. And I can say without a doubt that I have never known anyone as loving as my little guy. He has blessed our lives immensely and we completely treasure him. No, it has not been easy (I don’t think life’s journey is MEANT to be easy) but has been very rewarding. Every time he gives me one of his 100 watt smiles, I know he’s here for a reason! We are meant to learn throughout life and to face challenges, not run from them.
God places these children here for a purpose and it’s up to us whether we run and hide or rise up to it and choose to love and learn. It’s very sad to me to think that some physicians in higher ranks in this country have basically stated that kids like my son are not worthy of life because it’s too difficult for their families. Shame shame shame. What a sad, compassionless society we have made for ourselves.
The Hippocratic Oath, which doctors used to mandate (I’m guessing to prevent the seedier side of medicine from breaking out), explicitly stated that doctors would not perform abortions (ok, ‘give a pessary to procure and abortion’).
It seems the decision to remove this particular oath from our medical establishment has resulted in easily foreseen consequences.
Truly despicable piece — imagine, abortions going down! Quelle Horreur!
“Tommy Douglas came to a fitting end.He got run over by a bus.Would that be an accident or out of the womb abortion!”
Tommy Douglas died of cancer, no?
why not kill them all. sarc off.
it is do no harm.
i used to do alot of fund raising for special olympics. what a great bunch of people. athletes as well as those working with them. why kill a valuable human being?
Chris in Ontario
you’ll have to search for Tommy’s masters thesis from McMaster University. It was on line somewhere in its entirety however that link is long broken. Perhaps the Douglas family isn’t so proud of this document and I would think they had a hand in stopping others from printing it for those reasons, I’ve never heard the CBC mention the contents of the thesis either. (not that I study the CBC).
His ideas were well laid out there.
it’s perhaps 36 pages, so it shouldn’t take so much time.
richard,no.He got hit by a bus in BC
I hope that Dr. Lalonde has a good alibi as there is a 10-year-old, IIRC, girl with Down Syndrome currently missing in Toronto.
So let me get this straight, choice means choosing an abortion but not choosing life. My mother used to send me to the grocery store and tell me that could buy any flavor ice cream I wanted as long as it was vanilla but I was a kid and she could get away with that kind of crap. BTW, if Tommy was alive today he would not have been run over by a bus he would have been run over while being thrown under the bus.
“And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay.”
“And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay.”
I have heard these claims that T C Douglas supported eugenics before….
But you’ll have to look to Alberta for a province that actually practiced eugenics. You know, Alberta, the land of Ernest Manning, Ted Byfield, Stephen Harper, etc. Scratch a conservative religious nutcase, find a hypocrite.
Andy that was hilarious!
Jayzhchrist.Some of the comments here are beyond disgusting.I have worked with,and know,many so-called disabled people.They will literaly give you the shirt off their back if it will help you.I helped raise a beautiful,loving,salt of the earth dearheart child who had Down’s.She unfortunately died way to early(30).I would say she was more of an adult then the whole lot of so-called leftie rights are,or will ever be.Yeah.She had her problems,usually caused by bigots who thought she looked funny(Mongloid)or couldn’t function properly because she needed help in her daily life.In that case,may God bless us all with a long healthy life without need for help.The truth of life is seen,and will only be seen,through the eye’s of those who we wish to destroy.
Kingstonlad….God bless,and you have one of the true gifts of life,a loving,forgiving child who is more precious then you or I will ever know.
I’ve met Down’s people that I’d MUCH rather spend time with over a long list of so-called “normal” people.
Phantom
Well said.
Where are the activists that protested the Ben Stiller movie? Surly these statistics are commonly known. Conflict of interest?
WRT doctors
I do not understand why women are so infatuated with doctors, like they are higher on the evolutionary scale. I am tired of listening to doctors bloviating on issues that they have no expertise in ex… morality, economics, politics ect… We don’t ask economists what to take for a headache so why do we ask doctors about their preferences in healthcare delivery or moral issues?
Little Tommy was quite the scary dude even for a socialist if you think about it. He was an ordained Baptist Minister before he wrote his MA thesis which recalls Hitler like doctrine.
Question is did he ever detract from this?
Opppppsss….sorry…meant to put Kinstonlad’s post below :(…..but….and sorry for rant Kate…Has anybody sat with a “should-have-been-aborted child” outside at night and watched the stars? Sat with him/her and seen a spider kill a moth? I did. I went to save the moth,and she told me,no Uncle,the spider has to eat to.It is only nature. Only nature? From a seven year-old,23 years ago,who saw things way different then the rest of us? She told me that wait and watch.Baby spiders would be born,and some moths wold eat them as babies,and some spiders would eat the moths.And some of you guys say these people do not have intelligence?
Dr. Lalonde was quoted by Rush Limbaugh this morning (Sept. 11, hour 2 of the show). His brush with greatness.
WHO LATER ABANDONED EUGENICS, WAS ONE OF THE FIRST CANADIANS IN A SENIOR POSITION TO RECOGNIZE HITLER’S THREAT AFTER MEETING HIM, VOLUNTEERED TO SERVE IN THE ARMY, WAS TURNED DOWN DUE TO A MEDICAL CONDITION, HELPED MCKENZIE-KING SELL THE DRAFT, SUPPORTED CANADA’S WAR EFFORT AGAINST FASCISTS, AS PREMIER OF SASKATCHEWAN REFUSED TO SIGN STERILIZATION EUGENICS LEGISLATION SIMILAR TO LEGISLATION USED TO EVIL EFFECT IN BOTH ALBERTA AND BRITISH COLUMBIA, AND HE CHAMPIONED THE RIGHTS OF THE MENTALLY ILL!
Can you not be fair and admit Tommy Douglas wrote a horrible thesis we’ve both read, bought into evil ideas not uncommon in his day, and reversed himself toward the latter half of his life, and even later admitting the problem with his socialized medicine is they could never figure out how to make central planning work?
Can’t you admit Tommy Douglas reformed himself?
Signed,
Irate Conservative
manny:
Abolished in 1971 by Peter Lougheed, a Progressive Conservative premier.
Still alive in the minds of those who would kill those not as perfect as they are … such as today’s judegemental, pro-abortion left.
I choose life.
Indiana Homez said: “I am tired of listening to doctors bloviating on issues that they have no expertise in ex… morality, economics, politics ect… We don’t ask economists what to take for a headache so why do we ask doctors about their preferences in healthcare delivery or moral issues?”
The problem with many doctors is they really ARE higher on the evolutionary scale. They are brilliant. We’re talking the top 5% of the population brilliant. They know a stunning volume of stuff too, masses of information and skills that normal people simply don’t have. They’d run you into the ground if you tried to follow themn around for a day.
The problem with that is, they sometimes assume they know more than they actually do, leading to unforgivably stupid comments like this darb from Dr. Lalonde.
I’ve seen this countless times with my reading in gun control. I met one of these guys one time, a trauma surgeon who was The Man on the US eastern seaboard for patching up accident victims. He’d written a biiiiiig textbook on gunshot care (which is really excellent), but the first article in the book was a piece of anti-gun propaganda by Dr. Arthur Kellerman, he of “a gun in the home is 47 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder” fame.
When I asked the surgeon if he was aware of some of the problems with the article, it was clear that A) no he wasn’t, and B) he didn’t care a damn. Kellerman’s article confirmed his opinion that guns cause murder, and that better be damned well good enough for me. If he had his way every damn gun in the country would be melted down, today.
Brilliant people sometimes are like that. It would take a major life-altering event to change that guy’s mind about guns. This Lalonde guy, I’ve never met him but he’s probably cut from the same cloth. Not big on freedom of choice for the lowly peons, not big on being cautious in his opinions in case he might be wrong.
Tommy Douglas was then. This is now.
WHO LATER ABANDONED EUGENICS, WAS ONE OF THE FIRST CANADIANS IN A SENIOR POSITION TO RECOGNIZE HITLER’S THREAT AFTER MEETING HIM, VOLUNTEERED TO SERVE IN THE ARMY, WAS TURNED DOWN DUE TO A MEDICAL CONDITION, HELPED MCKENZIE-KING SELL THE DRAFT, SUPPORTED CANADA’S WAR EFFORT AGAINST FASCISTS, AS PREMIER OF SASKATCHEWAN REFUSED TO SIGN STERILIZATION EUGENICS LEGISLATION SIMILAR TO LEGISLATION USED TO EVIL EFFECT IN BOTH ALBERTA AND BRITISH COLUMBIA, AND HE CHAMPIONED THE RIGHTS OF THE MENTALLY ILL!
While Ernest Manning never volunteered for shite and then maintained Alberta’s eugenics program to the end of his career, even after learning of the holocaust, until it was eliminated by Red Tory Lougheed. Nice try, yahoos.
I can only imagine the impact of Dr Lalonde’s remarks on thousands of families with Downs or other disabled children and the thousands of children and adults who Dr Lalonde would gladly have seen killed.
It is difficult to imagine what sort of twisted mind and vacant soul would criticize a family for welcoming and loving a child, and castigate them for setting a bad example.
*shrug*
Big deal. We’ve got no problems screwing around with the evolution of other species, so why should we treat humans any differently? Hell, choosing whom you breed with is a form of eugenics in and of itself, since you’re selectively breeding for the traits which you find admirable. Dumping malformed fetuses just speeds up the process.
FORCED eugenics is a different matter entirely – there’s no excuse for any government or organization to ever use force in order to control human reproductive activity – but you certainly can’t blame a doctor for trying to save you the grief and difficulty which goes along with having to raise a disabled child.
Really, the argument here isn’t about eugenics, it’s about abortion. Don’t pretend that you give a damn about whether it’s wrong to try and control human evolution – what you’re REALLY concerned with is forcing your religious ideals on other people.
You do not have to put up my previous post on this subject, because I am going to fire off a new one.
Who the hell made this doctor God? How dare he even question whether a certain type of human being has a right to live or die. These people make me sick to my stomach. I am literally in a state of shock. Am I returning to the playground of my youth where I had to physically defend my down’s brother from predators, punks and elitists?
Extra medical costs? Compared to whom? Aids patients? Terminally ill immigrants who come here on the family reunification program? Fat slobs or alcoholics?
If I said the same thing about any other identifiable group I would be labeled a racist/bigot/fascist/nazi.
I guess we have not come that far as a society after all.
SICKENING!
There’s no stronger ‘force play’ than a taking of an innocent life.
Religious values acknowledge that life is a gift. Nobody can force a gift onto anybody else. Nobody can take away a gift that is not theirs.
I have made my choice and I choose life.
I choose to work for the betterment of humanity, not for the murder of the defenceless.
WIll you respect my choice?
I know four cases of down syndrom children before:
one may cause for genetic background they had in their family before and
second one the pregenent woman keep travel while she knows she should not she always had early pregancy and for third child the early pregency was occured this time it was too early and it affect to brain of child she was not carefull that woman to care she is pregant and she msut stop doing regular activities or go travel for fun every where adn her child has down syndrom and his brain is not act like his age group the eye of child has twoard left and they did srugery and stock may belly out they did suegery too and still the kind has problems talk like age group and now that woman regret for rest of her life why she did not listen to docotre warning
the third case i saw was the woman who went to warm not helathy country and Maliria bite her two years sona nd got so much high fever and not know exactly what is the case after9 month the good doctore noticed the baby got marliria and affect to brain of child not grow and the child grow look nice but not able to act like age like he was 17 but act like 3 years boy finaly the boy got cancer and died of cancer later in age 20 as I know that case was too sad story
and one other I know teh baby born all body was disable only head can undertand but totalb body is num and not able to move
now choice of woman choose baby is not up to them in above they did not know the baboy is going to born with disability or down sydrom but
look people pay so much money for dog or cat and they are dieing every few years and down sysdrom baby is not live long too in most of case their life if may go maximum up to 20 to 25 most of them will die early age I heard I am not sure
the only thing it affect all family emotionaly to see the kid is not able to talk or act like normal kida nd some times emrasement as well or limit the familyu
if you call Palin in mid of night or if some emergency happenbd she must take care of baby or go to meeting
we saw Brad and Angelina or rich actore has their own childrena nd has also adop more from poor countires but they have lots of money
peopel in poltic are not get enough paid as Palins aid she dreive herself to work everyday
people who do big job need million dollor spend for take care of their child other wise most busy mom htey have child pregent ealry or too trobule with teenge child if only they work and not pay enough moeny for baby siter or family mameber to take care of child
I am not sure from relgion prespective aboriotn for down sydndrom child is allow or not but we have to also ask ourself morally what is best or waht is choice htey like to take
the fmaily must go to center and if they can not handle the child like people has the animal then not l ike it bring to animal socity to take their cat to take care said I do not have money ot liek to keep my cat any more
if you have down sysdrom child and you can not afford money ot loose your paiten or not have time to take care of child what you can do is goverment shoud put money to take care of those child or not?
Palin came in first day for VP she must tell the kid take care by babysister that was not profeesional to birng young child in show this is not circus this is smal child who has down sydnrom mrs. Palin you are show yor child for get more vote form woman that si not fair for your children they are innocnet I do not like parent take advantage of hteir chilldren for get more pay cheqe I personal not support those woman
pregencay is very importnat time for woman who are not take care of thier 9 moht or drink alcohol or smoke, bad nutrtion, desease during pregancy or so many otehr reason or gentic or travel alot it affect the babies devlopemetn brain take care.
See what I mean? It all comes down to abortion. If you’ve managed to convince yourself that a fetus is a human being, then you’re going to start frothing at the mouth and complaining loudly about murder, genocide, “who made this person God”, yadda yadda yadda. On the other hand, if you acknowledge that a fetus is not a human being, then you’re going to have a completely different take on the issue. Eugenics has little to do with it – the core issue is abortion, and the definition of “human life”.
Here’s a personal take on the whole thing:
“Trisomophobia: What Palin Triggered”
The Liberals ran B.C. from 1916-1952 with the exception of one Conservative government of 1928-33.
The Roman Catholic Church always fought eugenics movements.
Feminist movements, that also supported Whites Only immigration, all supported the eugenics movements.
Social Credit in the 1930s was conservative???
Alex:
I assume, then, that you were never a mother.
Neither was I, for that part, but as a father of three, the mothers of my children knew something was alive and growing, in them.
I choose life.
Where have your choices, accorded to you through your God-give free will, taken you?
lol
I chose life too, thanks. I just don’t accept your definition of life. I’m not sure why you’re having such a tough time understanding that.
As for what your wife knew or didn’t know … whether something was growing inside of her isn’t in question. Bot flies lay their larvae under your skin, which are very much alive, and which grow to become full-fledged flies. I somehow doubt you’d have a problem “aborting” their larvae, though.
If, on the other hand, you’re trying to tell me that your wife “knew” there was a full-fledged human being inside of her … well, that’s just nonsense. She knew no such thing. Your assumptions and feelings are not knowledge.