My apologies for not having this up sooner – except for a quick stop at the farm to crash a few hours, I’ve been on the road the last 19 hours or thereabouts. (And offline most of the past 5 days).
Andrew Coyne is liveblogging the Mark Steyn hearing today, as best he can;
9:45 AM PST
The Chair is reviewing the legal history of the complaint. Apparently they have no jurisdiction over the Maclean’s website. So that’s a relief…
9:48 AM
We have friends: the BC Civil Liberties Association and the Canadian Association of Journalists are here as intervenors.
9:54 AM
Lawyers for the two sides are wrangling now over what witnesses the complainants are going to call, and whether “my friend” had properly informed “my friend” as to what “my friend” (the first one) had planned…
I’ll update as I get caught up myself. Your related links and commentary are welcome in the comments. Most of you probably know more than I do at the moment. This is good, though –
10:59 AM
Just coming back from a break. Lots of media interest, it seems: CBC, CTV (I’m told), the National Post, local media, and a guy from the New York Times, who’s doing a piece comparing how the two countries’ legal systems deal with speech cases. Needless to say, he can’t believe what he’s witnessing…
Great discussion in the comments there;
2 June 2008:
Wow ! Heather MacNaughton, who chaired the three-panel BC Human Rights Tribunal in the mixed judgement of the Port Coquitlam Knights of Columbus v. two lesbians, is the same Justice who fined Christian printer Scott Brockie and denied an appeal by Christian teacher Chris Kempling.
This is bound to be interesting ! We couldn’t have asked for a more leftist judge.
Hey, its a “human rights” tribunal. They have no other kind.
Kathy Shaidle has lots and lots as does RJJago on the support rally. (The blank signs were my suggestion. Heh.)
Keith Martin has issued a press release:
“I just returned from the Canadian Association of Journalists AGM in where I attended a debate with a member of the CHRA. After the debate it became even more obvious that the Act needs to be modernized. The CHRA member had little understanding of the deep flaws and misuses of the Act by the Commission and the trampling of free speech that the Commission sometimes engages in,” said Dr. Martin.
Another big round-up at Free Mark Steyn
Update – What we pay them the big bucks for;
CBC journos asked me who I was with? Just an interested observer I replied.
Who is this Steyn guy they asked. Is he a journalist? Who does he write for? He’s right wing isn’t he?
Binks is also Blogging & aggregating:
http://steynian.wordpress.com/2008/06/02/steyn-trial-20/
I think this comment bears repeating. From the Trial of the Century/year/week Andrew Coyne Blog.
comment by Muslim Steynfan on 2 June 2008:
Here is a copy of the letter I wrote Mr. Steyn 2 days ago, as published on his website:
I’m born and raised in Vancouver, B.C., the home of the Mark Steyn inquisition of 2008. I’m a Muslim, born, raised, confirmed, etc.
I’ve read your columns for about eight years or so, and have laughed, fumed, agreed, and pouted over your various takes on vaious issues. I even perused one of the ones about theatre (trying to impress a girl…long story).
The point is, i’ve agreed and disagreed, but not once did a I feel my human rights violated. Not once did I feel the need to sue, run to a human rights commission, nor demand that the publication or website in which that particular column appeared give me equal access to write a response.
This includes the day when I picked up the Maclean’s issue feauring an excerpt from America Alone. That day, I read your piece, and the first thing that struck me was…demography. I mean, that is the central theme… it was all about the great demographic paradigm shift. And you know what? It was/is concerning. My parents moved to Canada in 1974 (7 years before my birth) for a reason. They were attracted to Canada’s adherence to a fair and balanced legal system, and a free society that my parents were fortunate to have witnessed growing up in Fiji, which had also been a British colony. The traditions of Western civilization that made this society just, peaceful, free, secure and economically hopeful were the reasons they and countless other immigrants moved to Canada. It certainly wasn’t the weather. Today, that society is being challenged, as this demographic shift is occurring.
I am writing in my support of you in the case of the Canadian Islamic Congress V. Maclean’s.
Muslim groups don’t just target the Mark Steyns and Ezra Levants of this world. In my community here in BC, I was openly criticized by the local Muslim bigwigs for writing an article in a Muslim paper in which I talked about the stupid call by Muslims to protest Denmark in the wake of the Danish cartoons. I also received flack after one of your columns (the one about ‘Mustafa Shag’) inspired me to write a
column on the thin skinned faux outrage of some Muslims in ridiculous and frivolous matters: from the ‘offensive’ Dairy Queen swirl in the UK to the Nike shoes that kinda, sorta, looked like they said “Allah” in Arabic script if you squinted and turned your head oh-so slightly to the left and were in the right light.
Human rights commissions are useless to begin with (see the Assal satellite dish case). I already wrote my local MP in support of repealing section 13 and supporting Keith Martin’s Private Member’s Bill. However, she is the NDP Defense Critic (Dawn Black), so she’s too busy grilling the Defense Minister on the well-being of our enemies in Afghanistan.
I was fortunate enough to hear Ezra Levant speak at the Fraser Institute last week. As he said, this is an attack on our liberties. This is an effort by individuals who come from a place where a free press is not values, imposing their values on Canada, not adapting to the values of the land. When the government’s quasi-judicial kangaroo courts act as their allies, it makes America Alone that much more chilling and relevant, as the change in our values happens right before our eyes. The very
values that I, and countless other Muslims benefit from and prosper from, and run to to escape the horrific living conditions in the Muslim world, are allowed to be destroyed, and the government is an accomplice.
The very reason I write in Muslim newspapers, as much grief as it gets me, is because the extremism is a Muslim problem. I have to speak out to our community. Its the responsibility of Muslims to do this, just as it was the responsibility of Catholics to address child molestation in churches. Yes, when it kills 3,000 people, it becomes the world’s problem, but as Muslims, it is our cross to bear (no pun
intended). The details in your excerpt, as it appeared in Maclean’s should have been written by a Muslim and distributed in Mosques a long time ago. The fact that you quoted the Ayotollah didn’t anger me. I was only anger when I had read what he said, as a representative of Muslims. You sir, have done a marvellous job, and I salute you.
I apologize for the length of this e-mail. Once again, best of luck in your defense of freedom.
Name withheld on request
Vancouver, B.C
Rest assured, America is watching this conflict very closely. If we can intervene as individual citizens, we will.
More Americans care about this than my fellow Canadians, esp. the “journalists”.
warning: take your req’d meds before reading this…
http://www.fivefeetoffury.com/:entry:fivefeet-2008-06-02-0003/
The blank signs are inspired. I am going to fully steal that idea.
I hope Macleans lawyers stay focused on the issue of free speech/freedom of the press.
My fear is that this tribunal could become a mudslinging theological debate in which the complainants will claim spiritual superiority and thus all others are inferior and have no right to criticize something superior.
This case is a theological/spiritual issue tried in a secular court, which no one is probably equipped to handle.
My last paid issue of Macleans showed Christ on the front cover with by lines of questioning His Divinity, which came out around Easter. Was I offended? Yes. Was I mad? Of course. Did I seek compensation of any sort? No. As Christ said on the cross. “Father forgive them. For they do not know what they do.” And that is how I summed it up.
Unfortunately it appears that the complainants can’t heed the words or apply some of the teachings of one of their prophets (Isa), maybe because others consider Him divine?
Kathy has a great story about our favs…the CBC…guess the journalists have been distracted, with you know, important stuff like Julie and Maxime, and YPF’ing.
“…and a guy from the New York Times, who’s doing a piece comparing how the two countries’ legal systems deal with speech cases. Needless to say, he can’t believe what he’s witnessing…”
If he’s a New York Times guy, he’s probably wondering why they are conducting a trial at all. He would probably vote to put Steyn in front of a firing squad.
So this is the roadmap to create an equal society. A state institution dedicated to legitimizing inequality, restricting the press and limiting legitimate discussions. A HRC process that is also only open to certain groups to pose as eternal victims and restricts another group to always be the oppressor.
Do they not see how subordinating this one group of people could bite them in the butt? Isn’t history full of examples of persecuted people rising up. I mean if those white guys are even half as dangerous as progressives claim …..how long it will be before non-victim-group males will stop tolerating having sand kicked in their face by the skinny kids on the beach.
CBC …. ” Who is this Steyn guy they asked. Is he a journalist? Who does he write for? He’s right wing isn’t he? ”
And on they go to inform Canadians in their fair and balanced way……
“CBC journos asked me who I was with? Just an interested observer I replied.
Who is this Steyn guy they asked. Is he a journalist? Who does he write for? He’s right wing isn’t he? ”
======================
OH. MY. GOD. And I thought CBC couldn’t sink any lower. I guess the struggle freedom of speech isn’t something mother corp wants to give much publicity too. (sarcasm on) I wonder why??? /sarcasm
Hmm, you know, based on some of the arguments MacLeans’ counsel are making so far, it almost seems to me like they are not arguing this tribunal per se, they are already arguing the appeal. In other words, if and when the time comes to escalate the defense, the matters in record are more important from the perspective of the appellate jurisdiction than they are from the perspective of the kangaroo chamber.
On a related note. The Danish embassy in Pakistan was bombed by insulted islamists today. Eight innocent dead over cartoons. Someone tell me again why islam is the’religion of peace’.
The ignorance of the CBC journos is astonishing but completely in keeping with the insular little world they live in.
As regards the “leftist” judge described by Andrew Coyne, I’m wondering if this isn’t a case where worse is better i.e. the more glaringly apparent is the flagrant bias of the system, the more likely it will be that some of the slumbering zombies may actually awaken to what is happening and see abolition as the only proper remedy.
Hardly surprising that this is being held in a confined venue; wouldn’t want the masses to find out what’s really going on.
The situation with Muslim leaders and their front people is crazy.
1. Claim to be religion of peace that it misunderstood by the West
2. Commit acts of terrorism against the West in the name of their religion
3. Claim offense and take legal action when citizens of the West talk about the inconsistency of the first two points.
4. The Western power structure supports the Muslims in point 3.
Tarek Fatah says that two of Barbara Hall’s co-commish’s in Ontario are “associates of Elmasry”
He also writes that Khurrum Awan tried and failed to get a Muslim Youth protest going outside of today’s hearings.
is it just me, or is it funny that the blogosphere is YEARNING for attention on this story from the very same MSM they loathe.
how do i spell hypocrite? let me count the ways…
Simply. Absolutely. Amazing. How in the name of God could you not know who Mark Steyn is and be employed in the “information” industry? The guy has a global content reach of a magnitude not match by any other journalist that comes to mind. His content is the compelling issues of our times.
Simply amazing.
peanut:
It’s just you.
Gulag time, everyone!
I’ve read Andrew Coyne and Ezra Levant’s fine live blogs about the utter travesty—no surprise—of the present BCHR hearing. My blood boils.
Believe me, this whole, bogus, despicable process is well in place all across this country, countless times, every day, because the public school system is diligently training all the little Khurrum Awans to do their damage.
Ask any public school teacher (with balls), who, once a complaint is made by either a student or parent—usually of the worst kind—is treated exactly as Macleans is treated by the jackboots. Admin. abuses the teacher with hearsay, innuendo, and presumed guilt: all advantage is given to the complainer, no matter how tarnished his/her reputation. Like the HRCs, the teacher, no matter what his/her (sterling) record, is guilty as charged.
We’re in really big trouble because the Khurrum Awans are now legion in this country: our schools are jam packed with these jackals. And administration, jackals too, play the part of the HRC counterfeit “judges”. The intellectual laziness and moral bankruptcy required to uphold such a system take my breath away. But, like a plague of locusts, the darkness spreads . . .
I know that most people here ignore the warnings from the public school mine (as in canary in the . . . ). Too bad, because our public schools are spawning grounds for both the Khurrum Awans and the Heather MacNaughtons of this world.
Be scared, I’d say. Be very scared.
Stuff less damning than what’s going on with the HRCs has brought wo/men to their knees.
Leonard Cohen, from his song “The Future” (1992):
Give me back my broken night
my secret room, my secret life
it’s lonely here.
there’s no one left to torture
Give me absolute control
over every living soul…
Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won’t be nothing
Nothing you can measure anymore
The blizzard of the world
has crossed the threshold
and it has overturned
the order of the soul
When they said REPENT
I wonder what they meant
When they said REPENT
I wonder what they meant
When they said REPENT
I wonder what they meant…
…I’ve seen nations rise and fall
I’ve heard their stories, heard them all
but love’s the only engine of survival
Your servant here, he has been told
to say it clear, to say it cold
It’s over, it ain’t going
any further
And now the wheels of heaven stop
you feel the devil’s riding crop
Get ready for the future:
it is murder…
There’ll be the breaking of the ancient
western code
your private life will suddently explode…
*******************
I think Cohen gets the picture, and that from seven years in a Buddhist monastery in California.
It doesn’t take an Einstein to figure out that we’re in deep trouble. And I don’t think that legal battles or brilliance, alone, are going to be enough to break through the appallingly willful, obstinate, dangerous ignorance of either the Islamists or our chattering classes.
Kyrie Eleison.
peanut, your post gets Level 0 out of 4. (I was hoping I might be able to adjust the score, but even the grammatical presentation’s a complete bust.) But, there is a chance for you to redeem yourself . . .
Perhaps, if you think VERY, VERY hard, you might be able to come up with a reason or two—psst . . . especially, re the CBC, which receives $ one billion from every (hey, that’s us!) Canadian taxpayer—why the blogosphere might wish the MSM to cover this story, which has very serious implications for all Canadians. (Whoops, I’m giving you hints.)
I guess, among many other considerations, you don’t bother to proofread your writing for content. (If you did that effectively, you’d have highlighted your vacuous remarks and clicked the “Backspace” button.)
I’m here and willing to evaluate your re-post. I’m sure you can do it . . . Good luck, peanut!
Many thanks, batb. That Leonard Cohen: not just a pretty face!
Yes, indeed, Kyrie eleison.
peanut, isn’t the issue the MSM’s responsibility to report in a free society the pertinent issues of the day in an unbiased and knowledgeable manner? Think you can wrap your tiny mind around the frustration felt by citizens when that fails to happen?
Vitruvius :
In other words, if and when the time comes to escalate the defense, the matters in record are more important from the perspective of the appellate jurisdiction than they are from the perspective of the kangaroo chamber
I agree completley. This will have to go beyond this group of social slurpers. The lawyers know it & so does Steyn. This man & Ezra are laying it all on the table.
Just my opinion
2 things from Coynes liveblog.
“Our argument re Miller: if he’s here to testify about the practices of responsible journalism, and if responsible journalism is not a defence under Section 7.1, then what’s the point?
11:38 AM
It’s kind of a cool defence, when you think of it. The law does not permit us to defend ourselves on the basis of responsible journalism (or anything else, really). But that’s patently unreasonable, so the complainants are actually trying to sneak it back in—to make the issue our journalistic practices, rather than their attempt to silence us. We’re not giving them that opportunity.”–nifty eh?
“Another interesting note: Awan is articling at Faisal Joseph’s firm.”–muzzies thick as thieves.
peenut
lets see if you can grasp it!!!
2 doofus’ on my dime arrive late to report on a vital matter that they have not “backgrounded” and missed the opening , (had to stop for a Latte??) so what will they REPORT on when they have sat outside the hearing room, on an event they know nothing about? They will “report” as they think their boss will want them to, just to make brownee points. Think that that may just be a reason for concern for some of us who care, we want honest jurnalism, not leftist fabricated BS!!
“…it almost seems to me like they are not arguing this tribunal per se, they are already arguing the appeal.”
As they should. When you know there’ll be an appeal, and it’ll matter, your primary concern is always making the best record you can, not the initial result.
I think the best outcome for this wretched Stalinesque tribunal of lefty dupes is to find McClean’s and Mark Steyn guilty of Crimes against the State aka crimes against quisling groupthink. It will put these fools front and center where they never wanted to be, out in the open.
The worst outcome is a compromise, a nuanced phoney mea culpa that still allows the CHRC to continue rather than be abolished completely.
I also hope that Macleans loses … heck, their lawyers are giving the kangaroo court every opportunity to make rulings contrary to real law … and they’re biting.
Kinda like fishing at a trout farm.
Like others have pointed out – this is Part I. I suspect that the Macleans’ lawyers want to lose … but I also suspect they are in for the long haul … it will be interesting to see what they do if the case is dismissed.
You have to isolate a virus before you can destroy it.
From the Macleans liveblog, fleshing out the point earlier made by Matt (sorry about the full quote, but I believe people are more likely to read what’s in front of them than to click on a link)
comment by Tarek Fatah on Monday, June 2, 2008 at 2:50 pm:
I don’t know much about the structure of BC HRC, but here in Ontario, two of the Human Rights Commissioners who sat in on the Barabara Hall decsion to convict Macleans without a trial, were pals and associates of Elmasry, and had worked with the Canadain Islamic Congress at difefrent levels. One of them is a supporter of Ayatullah Khomeini, but managed to convince the mCguinty govt to appoint him on the commission. Not a single newspaper in the country wished to investigate this further.
In addition, the civil servant/employee of the Ontario HRC who drafted the report for the Commissioners to apporve, is a supporter of Sharia law in Canada, often comes to work dressed in Saudi attire and has made no secret of his admiration of Canada’s Islamists as well as his contempt for Muslims who place Canada first.
WTF! Our politicians are insane to appoint these people. This really deserves public discussion!
Lori: “This really deserves public discussion!”
That’s for sure, and maybe this is it: commentary on SDA.
D’ya think McGuilty and his scurvy crew tune in? IMHO, they all should walk the plank. With Moron Miller at the helm of the Going Down Ship Toronto and Duh-lton McGuilty as the pirate captain of the Sucking Socialist Ship Ontario, I think we’re sunk: Rocks ahead! Heck, it’s too late. We’re already wrecked…
batb:
All is not lost. In fact, I’m quite optimistic about this.
The defence is brilliant … kinda like a rope-a-dope where they’ll allow the HRC to punch they way they know how and make a ruling against freedom of the press.
Then, once that ruling is out there in the public and with a parliamentary committee being struck up, there’s two options … trimming back and better defining section 13 and 2) take an appeal through the regular court system, where actual rules apply.
The momentum is on the side of of shining a light on these boards, which an friend of mine studying law pointed out was a disputes resolution board, constituted to not tie up the courts with trivial issues.
Since this is something bigger than a trivial issue, the real courts would be interested in hearing the details, I’m sure.
Does no good to mope in the ‘all is lost’ vein when people are fighting a good battle, with an interesting strategy that’s striking at the very heart of Trudeupian thought.
The Globe and Mail printed nothing about this in the June 3 (todays) paper. Journalists are often keenly aware of free speech issues, so I must wonder why they chose not to mention it. I suspect that this gay supporting paper does not want to let Canadians know what the Tribunals are doing, lest the gay community lose an institution which has been very effective in intimidating Christians into silence on homosexual issues.
Consider the G&M also ran on A3 a story which slags the Roman Catholic Church for not taking a 19 million dollar donation from a rich non-Christian Canadian. The Church would never give up architectural control of a worship building, since any design expresses theology. Non-believers don’t set theology in the RC Church. At least not yet! Once editors are told by the tribunals what they must print, is it not too much to imagine that the Tribunals will be bringing Bishops into line and telling them what they must teach?
set you free, I hope you’re right. I’d LOVE to be optimistic. I’m not saying all is lost, but that we’re marooned on the rocks, for sure–‘just an observation not a value judgment!!
Tom Horton’s comment is indicative of the reason I’m a little concerned about what’s happening in Canada. Things aren’t looking too good–especially when our MSM are the flying-monkey-squad-mouthpieces for the lib-left political spectrum and don’t seem particularly prone to reporting THE FACTS, especially when said facts make their friends and political confreres look bad.