Stéphane Dion’s Blog Campaign Co-Chair, president of the Richmond Hill Federal Liberal Riding Association and York Region Area Director for the Liberal Party of Canada makes a startlingly frank admission;
I support public education, where tax dollars are used to pay for a helpful social program that the market did not provide efficiently. I also support a government organized child care system because the market has failed to provide this important social program. Further, I support public health care because it is a manner of rationing scarce medical resources in a way that the market could never do.
(And don’t miss this child care pile-on in the comments.)
“rationing scarce medical resources”
Liberal socialist mumbo-jumbo speak for long frikkin line-ups where you’ll die waiting for treatment.
At least if your dead, you won’t consume any of those scarce medical resources.
Wait just a minute! You skipped over the most important part: child care.
If child care is really a consumer item offered in the marketplace, can I have a new mother? Can I return mine for exchange then at least? I still have the recepit.
/liberal moron
So what are you trying to say? That instead of “rationing” scarce medical resources you would rather that scarce medical resources go only to those who have the ability to pay?
My wife became ill in January and I had to call an ambulance to get her to the hospital. The paramedics asked us to ask them to take us to a nearby county hospital, not the nearest Mississauga hospital. They did this because a) the wait time at the local hospital was 6-8 hours, and b) they couldn’t re-route us unless we asked to be re-routed. Nice trick on their part. The hospital staff were furious with them, but they has their alibi.
My wife ended up having a small surgical procedure performed. But while we waited inside Emergency, we were amazed at what we witnessed.
A woman and child were admitted to the bed next to us. Amongst a lot of rustling and noise, the girl asked her mother for a Tim Horton’s doughnut, which she soon got and promptly consumed. It was really hard to tell who was sick and what the matter was. Eventually a triage nurse came by and we overheard that the girl had … a hangnail (!). The nurse issued her an aspirin and sent her on her way.
Next up was a little boy, who I had seen earlier and whom I had assumed was there because his mother or father was sick. He and his mom were put in a bed across from us and once again the triage nurse revealed the problem: the boy had bumped his head and knocked out a baby tooth. His mother took him to the hospital because he lost a baby tooth!
Later, a middle-aged woman came in and lay sprawled across a bed. She had a twisted ankle. I later saw her hobbling out of the hospital.
Scarce medical resources indeed!
OT a bit here,just noticed over @ ctv politics blog,that Gerard Kennedy,Navdeep,and Omar,are suing Nat.Post columnist for libel over statements that the 3 of them made ‘deal’ to exchange votes in return for changes to national security policy.The smear campaign by libs.seems to be the new tactic..with Holland once again flapping his oversized mouth.What a bunch of losers!
why not address the brain dead gov’t policies that
made them scarce IN THE FIRST PLACE !
My daughter is 5 1/2 years old and nearing the end of kindergarten. She’s well behaved and can sit quietly while adults are visiting. She’s a busy kid who likes to draw and build things and cook things and sing and dance and play with her pets. She scored 97% on her grade one readiness test and her reading and writing skills are described as being well into grade one by her kindergarten teacher.
Neither my wife or I are particularly well off. We adjust our work schedules so that one of us is always home with the kid, and this has cost us a bit financially. Sometimes one of us picks up a spare part-time job so we can get by.
I don’t need a social program to help my daughter (maybe they think we do — she doesn’t buy the crap about the polar bears that the school is pushing). What I need is for the government to get the hell out of my face so I can get on with parenting my kid.
The free market method of rationing healthcare is simple. ‘If you have no money to afford your health care, – then die.’
That is how it was done in Saskatchewan before Medicare. Those who know their Saskatchewan history know about how TC Douglas had major surgery as a child that his family couldn’t afford that a surgeon did as a charity case.
Years later, as a young Baptist Minister, a neighbour of his died with a burst appendix. When the neighbour had gone to the hospita, he had been rejected.
Yup – the free market way works, it simply does not adhere to the teachings of christianity.
You need any more proof that Liberalism is a Mental Disorder???
“So what are you trying to say? That instead of “rationing” scarce medical resources you would rather that scarce medical resources go only to those who have the ability to pay?”
What are you trying to say, KC?
Do we have a supply problem with DVDs, broccoli,
goldfish?
Geez, I wonder why not?
SOCIALISM! EVERYONE SUFFERS.
It is surprising to se such muddle headed thinking in a nominally mature adult. Milton Friedman, in “Free to Choose” explains the relationship between supply and demand well enough to get a Nobel Prize for it and this book has been around for at least 30 years. Rationing is the ONLY way that a government can give away a product or service that can absorb all of the resources available to it. The market on the other hand lets people choose what product and service they need and the price they are willing to pay for it provides the signals to the suppliers on how much is needed and when and where. Once price (even a nominal price) is removed the only direction for supply comes from the bureaucracy whose natural interest is to maximize their personal situation (salary, benefits, working hours etc) and to minimize service. This is not because they are bad people but only because they, like all of us, will strive to maximize the outcome of whatever situation that society puts them into.
Also, the hackneyed argument that the poor will be excluded from medical services must be examined for the fraud that it is. Every civilized country treats indigent illness as the exception rather than the rule and established remedies accordingly.
Economists of all stripes recognize this and also recognize that, in the absence of market signals, the only response to increased demand is to ration output. In a way I am glad that at least the RATIONING is being recognized as the reason for long wait times in Canada not some metaphysical unexplained force that most politicians try to foist off on us.
If more citizens recognize that the doctor and nurse shortage is due to conscious and direct limitation of entry into these professions as a way to control costs, I believe that they might take to the streets and demand that this central planning system of medical care be recognized for the failure that it is (and has been everywhere it has been tried)
The fact that this liberal is ignorant of basic economics and confuses cause with effect is tragic. I urge all thinking people to join a party and provide sensible input to the process. Remember, the world is run by those who show up, and if only fools show up a foolish outcome is guaranteed!
Yes, we have a public education system BUT we also have choice; we can choose private education. Why can’t we have both a public AND private health system, you know, like that wacky right wing country, France!!
The last time I added it all up from the available budget data (2004?) there was something like $60,000,000,000 being spent on health care in this country. In case you get boggled by the zeros, that was 60 billion dollars. And it results in scarce resources that need to be rationed.
Where the hell is the money going then?
I’m amazed at Cherniak’s lack of political judgement. His need to have the final word in any discussion is going to really hurt him down the road. If he really is as influential within the Liberal party as he claims then I think it’s reasonable to expect they will go down in flames in the next election.
Health care is only scarce cause it’s run by the fricken government and it takes a retard liberal not to see the obvious.
I don’t get the argument that it’s good to have rationed health care bacause everyone suffers equally. If you had two tier health, no one would have to suffer.
The communist system “rations” care by artificially created a wait in the expectation that X people will die waiting so that it costs less money. If this is your idea of “fairness” then I hope you get a really painful cancer and you get told you have to wait for 2 weeks longer than it takes you to die.
We pretend we’re compassionate because in Canada, no one goes broke paying for life-saving care. What they aren’t bright enough to mention is that I’d rather the option of going bankrupt saving my life (or that of my family) than dying on a waiting list with my RRSP’s still intact.
Our system places its priority on money rather than people. Just like all envy-based socialist systems. Eat the rich and you’ll have nothing to feed on tomorrow.
I have little desire to visit Cherniak’s blog for several reasons, chief among them being his childish videos on YouTube smearing our PM & his insistence on censoring all blog comments left on his site. Guess I’m not an ass-kissin’ sycophant of the Lieberal persuasion, who are the only people he wants massaging his widdle teensie ego.
jcp where is the money going??
Unions.
jcp where is the money going??
Unions.
Umm, what isn’t “rationed?” Part of the reason there is short supply of health and day care is governments at all levels have impeded the creation of private availability, and thus created shortages. It’s really about unionized delivery, which I don’t object to in principle. That doesn’t mean we should have no other option. Where is the real evidence that government must deliver healthcare, or else it will collapse. The SCoC disagrees and so does experience. The day care case is even weaker. Why should we set up an expensive infrastructure when it is partly available now (in-home caregiver, whether parent, family or not). No let’s warehouse kids because it’s good for their socialization. After all parents aren’t really qualified caregivers, right. Show me your ECE, what’s with that toilet paper in the incorrrect upturned position? Oh my God, no cupboard locks above the fridge. Kids have somehow managed to survive and cope as adults without ultra expensive universal day care system.
Two items that are crucial in ANY “contract”.
1) the amount (service, dollars, ect)
2) the date (for services rendered, payment, ect)
If either one is missing, the “promise” is worthless.
All my life I heard the likes of Betty Kennedy, Pierre Burton, Pierre Trudeau, Jean Chretien Brian Mulroney, Paul Martin, Steven Lewis, Monique Begin sing the praises of Canada’s Medicare system.
Free, to everybody, free to all, free, free …
WHEN ?? Which Tuesday ? This year or next ??
And all our lives we have heard the Liberals say “Canadians may pay higher taxes because Canada has the best medical care in the world, blah, blah”
WHEN ??
“That instead of “rationing” scarce medical resources you would rather that scarce medical resources go only to those who have the ability to pay?
no you moron . . publicly funded, privately delivered.
Then you get rid of the unions, perform more operations at a better price in better facilities with the newest equipment with happier staff that don’t have their paycheck ripped off by unions so they can send money to the NDP.
Why do you think the various WCB’s across the country send injured workers to private facilities for surgeries ?? Better, faster, cheaper service. Its a no brainer.
And allow private insurance so those who can pay can get themselves out of the public lineup, which makes it shorter and FASTER for those who can’t afford private insurance.
We should all be thanking gawd that the idiots that run our health care system aren’t allowed to run the food production system.
Anyone for bread line-ups ??
A significant part of the medical problem is that boards run by medical professionals get to set quotas as to how many can enter training for the various medical professions. Of course, basic standards need to be in place, but these quotas have less to do with standards than with keeping the number of professionals artificially low (and thereby increase their demand and therefore their wages). I’d earn a lot more if I could dictate how many new professionals entered my profession – increasing my value by limiting how many of my profession there are.
There already is 2 tiered health care in Canada. Those of us with money can get any service we want any time. But the stupid thing about the way we do it in Canada is that we make it illegal to purchase that 2nd tier in Canada from Canadians and generating revenue within the Canadian medical system. Instead, we go to the USA and spend our money there.
A perfect reason why left thinking people should never be in charge of economic policy. They like sending our wealth overseas (cabon trading anyone???).
Reporterbrock commented over at Jason Cherniak’s blog: “Families vote. Single people don’t.
“It’s a shrewd political move that Liberals would have made in a second, if they were smart enough to think of it.”
Like I say, politics is tough and it’s tougher if you’re stupid.
I wonder how old “leftdog” is. I note he supposedly “quotes” history but doesn’t relate his experiences pre medicare, so he is probably an indoctrinated post medicare person.
I am from Sask and was born in 1938 in a farming community and of a farming background. My brother was born in 1935. My parents paid off the delivery bill for the two of us in the mid 1940’s. They were never charged interest and never resented the charge. Actually took pride in paying it off and had two more kids. To my knowledge, no one in our community was refused medical care. Cancer care and hospitalization care was covered by the government long before “Universal Health care” (1969).
I started practice in 1963, six years before the implementation of “universal healthcare”. I custommarily wrote off 15% of my billings annually, even tho I frequently charged patients less if I thought the charge would be a hardship (they were never aware that I was charging them less, so don’t give me that “demeaning approach crap”). My patients kept me supplied with eggs, milk, cream, home-made bread and the like and providing top service to them was a pleasure (including house calls).
The “system” has taken the proffessionalism out of the medical profession and is directly responsible for the scarce resources. As waiting lists grow and job satisfaction decreases, resources will continue to diminish. So save your money, leftdog, so you will be able to go south for you timely treatments in the future, as many of the wealthy already do today.
It’s a bit like the old joke where a guy goes to a sausage shop and asks how much a garlic sausage is. The butcher says it’s $3.99 a pound. The customer says “What!! $3.99 a pound??!! That’s too high…the guy across the street sells it for $1.99 a pound!” The butcher says, “Well then go and buy it there”. The customer says “I can’t, he doesn’t have any.” The butcher says “Well, next time I don’t have any, I’ll sell it to you for $1.99 a pound too.”
“it is a manner of rationing scarce medical resources in a way that the market would never do.”
There, fixed it. Like that better.
OT OT
jlc prediction for QC electiom…
ADQ 28
PLQ 55
PQ 42
You heard it here first!
In fact, several members of my extended family in Canada have already availed themselves of Canada’s “second tier” of medicine (the United States) because they couldn’t get what they needed in Canada.
Others of my extended family live in France. When I visited last September they were gobsmacked at how slow and rationed our medical services were; they then asked why we Canadians don’t consider a mixed system like the French have, which encourages medical service competition within a publicly-funded structure.
My reply? “Your system is considered to be ‘American-style.’ ” Hilarity all around, and then many comments about the possible stupidity of the average Canadian voter. To which I had to humbly agree…
don’t forget Tommy Douglas fought for Universal Health Coverage/Insurance.
It was the Liberals that saw the opportunity to buy votes by designing a Big Government Operation that delivered health care.
I think I understand JC’s argument. According to what he is saying, a paycheck is money from the government that they haven’t taken from you. Makes perfect sense….
I’m not going to burden you with my woes regarding health care here.
Suffice it to say, all I want is to be able to have a CHOICE!
Mississauga Matt,
Bang on…misuse of the hospital as a walk in clinic is a major major problem….Why people dont have family doctors anymore is beyond me.
Emergency is
The patient broke their arm, or some other appendage
They cant or are having difficulty breatheing, seeing or feeling
They see strange things after eating something
Violent persistent nausea
They are incapacitated
After that, I really wonder why you need to go…even a persistent cough can wait till the next say to see doctor or go to a walkin clinic…diont go to emerg….it is for an, as the sign says, emergency.
However, it would be nice to know if Mr Dion belives in RATIONING.
left dog @3:42
Common sense would indicate that the hangnail and tooth, and ankle(from mississauga matt’s comment) would not be tying up the ’emergency’ staff if they had to slap a 20 dollar bill on the counter at triage.
But folks!
If Saint Tommy Douglas had his way, none of us would be sick at all! All the bad genes would have been filtered out of us through selective breeding!
There’s still a long way to go!
/NDP useful idiot
KC, it’s simple: no justification can be made for an individual to be *forbidden* to use his/her resources to purchase any care he/she deems necessary. You are now permitted to this with your eyes and your teeth. I have yet to see a logical argument to persuade me why I can’t do it with my knees
where is the money going, they ask
well, the hospital that my wife works at has an administrator that makes near 400k, plus many perks…he has an entourage(well paid)that bobs their pathetic heads up and down in agreement with every idiotic idea that comes out of his overpaid, moronic head…1 in 4 surgeries are cancelled every day, yet this idiot gets a free membership at the elite G&CC, rewarding his incompetence….unions might be part of the problem, but the big issue is the insane amount of admin running the hospitals in Ontario
kingstonlad…that’s the norm…she probably sees the ‘administrative assistants’s’ all over the building helping the ‘clipboard queens’ too.
Do the math…approximately 400,000 plus for every hospital.No accountability at either door.
You always knew there liberals had a soft spot for Communism. But to be so blatant… wow.
We are so immature when it comes to healthcare. There are private clinics in Canada–they give great care to both private and public patients–and DO IT AT A PROFIT!! That is what the public system is really afraid of–it has been shown by the private system like the Gimbal Eye Clinic in Calgary that healthcare does not have to be a gigantic money hole–it can actually work efficiently and effectively. If people actually became aware of this surely they would rebel at being held hostage by ‘healthcare rationing’? We listen to the rhetoric from our masters without looking behind the scenes at reality. Hospitals are top-heavy with administration–there is no room or money left for patients and up-to-date equipment. Our x-ray machines are outdated and our diagnostic regimens are pre-history–for example–bowel scans are done in Edmonton at a private clinic–it costs but castor oil etc are not used which is much better for the patient, but then the patient is no longer the prime concern of our hospitals.
It was quite the slip-up, eh Mark?
Usually, the word “rationing” sends socialized health care advocates running for the Denial Dictionary.
And poor Jason – so clueless that he actually offered it up on a silvery platter.
Regarding that Tommy Douglas anecdote, supplied by “leftdog”: was it ever explained why Mr. Douglas’ neighbour was rejected by the hospital? Was it a funds decision, or was it because the doctors there thought that there was nothing seriously wrong with him?
“I support public food ownership because it is a manner of rationing scarce food resources in a way that the market could never do.”
What does that system sounds like?
Cherni-ak, Cher-ni-ak,
What are they feeding you?
Cherni-ak, Cher-ni-ak,
It’s not your fault.
They won’t take you to the Senate
You’re obviously not their favorite pet
You may not be a bed of roses
And you’re no friend to those with noses.
Cherni-ak, Cher-ni-ak,
It’s not your fault.
If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance… baffle them with bullshit.
I am completely Baffled by his arguement.
I call b.s.
Paradigm-shift:
to change the way of thinking after realizing your thinking is irrational.
This guy desperately needs one.
And yet…there’s more…
Today the Ontario health minister rejected a proposal to have 1500 knee replacements performed at a private Ontario hospital, at a cost of $1000.00 less than the cost in the “public” system. He cited his committment to preserving the public health care system.
In December, I spent $3000 for a medical procedure for my beloved golden retriever, and I was happy to pay it. Yet if I want a knee surgery done, I cannot pay for it myself in Canada. Fortunately, I have the resources to go to the US for the procedure…
Rationing….in Canada…it’s the socialist way…if you don’t like it…well, go sod yourself. After all, you’re not a patient…you’re a “client”…
And yet…there’s more…
Today the Ontario health minister rejected a proposal to have 1500 knee replacements performed at a private Ontario hospital, at a cost of $1000.00 less than the cost in the “public” system. He cited his committment to preserving the public health care system.
In December, I spent $3000 for a medical procedure for my beloved golden retriever, and I was happy to pay it. Yet if I want a knee surgery done, I cannot pay for it myself in Canada. Fortunately, I have the resources to go to the US for the procedure…
Rationing….in Canada…it’s the socialist way…if you don’t like it…well, go sod yourself. After all, you’re not a patient…you’re a “client”…
sorry for the double post, Kate…I was trapped in the “spam filter” for about five minutes…