The headline reads, “Canadians Head out to Hunt Down Taliban!” It all begs the question, just how much will Canadians tolerate as far as casualties? How much will you tolerate? And, if you have family in the forces, or are in the forces yourself, how many KIA and WIA are you willing to put up with before the cost of keeping Afghanistan free of the Islamist threat becomes too high?
My personal feeling is that no place in the world today is “too far” away. 911 was hatched in Afghanistan, and any region of the world ruled by fanatics can become the incubator for tragedy right here in Canada. I view the issue in terms of winning and losing. You go in to win; period. I view each injury and death as a sacrifice for the freedom of Afghan children and my children. But then, that’s just me.
Another thought you may want to consider is this. Canada only has 33 million or so people. Every soldier we lose to injury or death, is equivalent to 11 or so in the United States as a percentage of population. When you look at it like that, our cost in Afghanistan has already been high.
For those of you unfamiliar with Canadian Armed Forces readiness, you may want to try this LINK. Cjunk did a series a while back on the equipment readiness of our forces. (warning, it’s a long read) Keep in mind that even the best equiped, best trained, best armed force in the world has lost over one thousand men and women in Iraq.
So, what’s your limit?
UPDATE:
In related news: click
Some are suggesting that by even being “over there” we create more terrorists. For an interesting read on the topic, you may want to try THIS.
in WW2, Canada, with a population of aboy 11.5 million, had over a million uniformed troops.
Could we do it again ??
The world is watching
It is so gratifying to see Canadians doing thier part for humankind I am sort of overwhelmed.
After far to long of dancing to the sick tune of the defeatests in the N.D.P. It is so refreshing to see canada again standing up and fighting for our way of life. My thoughts and prayers are with our troops. I wish them good luck and god speed.
Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all
terror, victory however long and hard the road may
be; for without victory, there is no survival.
Sir Winston Churchill
If you are not prepared to ‘use’ the Armed Forces, then why have them in the first place ? It’s not a ‘make-work’ project, not is it a ‘feel-good’ means of assuaging liberal guilt ; it’s a means of projecting State Power, and allowing Canada to contribute to the collective defense of the life we supposedly value.
The men and women who serve willingly in our Forces are to be praised and supported not made into what the NDP considers to be ‘good little soldiers’, who only do ‘good’ non-violent things.
I knew that as soon as the casualties started, the usual suspects would start with the usual drivel. I have not been disappointed.
What has been disappointing or at least annoying is the quantity of the ‘usual suspects’. What has happened to the Canada that was once a great country? Where did it go?
This is just sad.
You clearly have shit for brains. Any Canadian presence in Afghanistan should serve Canada’s national interest, and nothing but. If Afghanistan is little Iraq, going down the same shitter but only more slowly, than Canada should get out as soon as this becomes apparent. Why waste men and money? And the time to decide will probably be this December when questions of extending the mission come up. Harper should commit now to a parliamentary vote on extending the mission.
See the truth at my Blog, http://bigcitylib.blogspot.com/.
For Conservatives, you might consider what you find at my blog a series of flares from the Reality-based Community.
Equip them to the hilt, please. No more half measures, or this is good enough attitude. Give them the best and let them do their job. Was I the only one embarrased when they showed up in the desert with their camoflage greens? Then they were given little brown camoflage blankies to use. Forget JC’s personalized golf balls, this really is small town cheap.
okay big city lib,
Let’s talk national interest…
my view:
1) Terrorism is a threat to the security of Canada and the safety of our population, as well as that of our major trading partners.
2)The Taliban were unquestionably supporters of terrorism.
3)Therefore, anything that is done to undermine the Taliban or their associated terrorist groups enhances the security of Canada.
4) the establisment of a non-terrorist state in Afghanistan weakens the Taliban and the terrorists they harboured.
5)The Canadian mission in Afghanistan aids in the establishment of a non-terrorist state.
So the Canadian mission in Afghanistan is in Canada’s interests.
As to your point:
“If Afghanistan is little Iraq, going down the same shitter but only more slowly, than Canada should get out as soon as this becomes apparent.”
So we should cut and run if things get difficult?
Weakness in the face of terror is NOT in our national interest. It will only encourage the terrorists.
I don’t like this post at all. It is the exactly wrong thing to ask of either readers of this blog in particular and Canadians in general. As an expat living in the mid-west of the US, you cannot compare what has happened to date, vis-a-vis what the US has done since 9/11 and what can happen now that Canada has a more than small stake in the war in Afghanistan. It suggests that either now, or historically, Canadians can’t cut it. My prediction that by the time “our boys” are done with the Taliban, they’ll wish they never attempted a “come-back.” The cowards generously labelled insurgents are a bunch of nuts with nothing to lose. In due course, they will be terrified by the Canadian troops and, if the meddlesome politcos can stay out of this, they’ll be back in the god forsaken mountains hiding in caves wishing they could go home. Canadian fighting men and women these days are no different than their grandfathers and great grandfathers and great-great grandfathers who fought for King and Country under their flag and terrified their enemies. This isn’t pride speaking so much as knowing deeply and instinctively that our troops, even without the best ordinance and equipment have always kicked ass in every scrape they’ve ever been in. These men and women know what they are up against and know the silent majority of Canadians are behind them. The Quakers, Pacifist, the Dooney’s crowd in the Annex in TO and their Patron Saint Tony Burman at the CBC, will try valiantly to skew whatever pathetic twaddle they call coverage to “their” Canadians while we quietly support our men and women. Our allies from the grand Anglo-Alliance will welcome us into the fold we never really left [except for the quizlings Chretien currying favour with God knows who.] I have watched a small state in the Mid-West bury men and women with pride and honour. I’ve seen/lived in a nation at war bear its burden with dignity. Canada doesn’t take a backseat when it comes to a fight and won’t this time either. They’ll get the job done without a hint of complaint and return to its country quiet heroes and role models for all of us.
bigcitylib
You support corruption, you support cowardice, you support…. liberals.
Talk about shit for brains, do you have to keep your ears stuffed with TP to stop it from leaking out onto the keyboard?
Random comment:
Am I the only one amused by the fact that the war on terror has liberals talking like Kissinger-esque realists?
When did you EVER hear a liberal mention “national interest” in the 1990’s?
Why is it that so many of Kates posts degenerate into shit brained rants from Liberals and unnecessary responses from the right?
Ban the trolls!
JRB: Traditionally, Canada had paid in dead an incredible cost in both world wars. As a percentage of population, Canada’s sacrifice was selfless beyond belief. She was in both fights long before many other countries even got started. As a percentage of population, Canada paid brutally compared to what the United States did in either war.
But, the Canada of 1945, and even the 1950’s is long gone. Her colleges are staffed by first generation Canadians, her bureaucracies by leftists, her judiciary by much the same, and much of her population is now crowded into three large urban cores made much of people who’s ancestry has little to do with the heros of the early 1900’s.
And, just like in the USA, there is a large leftist utopian political block in Canada. Canadians have not sacrificed in war in any great numbers since the Korean war, and that was very unpopular. I fear that the country is entering uncharted ground. Will Canadians rise up in large enough numbers to support their troops and the mission? I sure hope so. But it’s anybody’s guess.
If Canada pulls out of Afghanistan we don’t deserve a voice in the world. We have to participate in these things or get out of NATO. The UN. The G8 etc.
Those Lefties that say we a are a country of peacekeepers do a disservice to our war veterans and especially those that gave up their lives for our freedom.
I think many of us that are second or third generation Canadians grew up hearing about WW2 and about family members who did not hesitate to go to war… simply because it was right.If 9-11 had not occurred, we all may have a little different view of the Canadian presence in Afghanistan. The war is Afganistan is a war against a group withing the Afgan population who have declared a war on all the Western world… and that includes Canada.
In my view, the events of 9-11 were aimed directly at all of Western society, not just the US. We simply cannot just sit back and let some one else fight for us…everytime. We have to be willing to assist whenever and wherever we can. In WW2, our country’s freedom was put at risk. I prepose that our freedom has been put at risk but a group of thugs who are definitely playing for keeps. I for one, don’t for a moment think that this would be over if the US just decided to end it and pull their troops all home. The Taliban and similar misled religious zealots will never be happy until all Western society is destroyed, or under their power and control.
War is never pretty…. and it is damn scary stuff.Butthe worst thing we can do is do nothing. The time has come for our government to step up to the plate and give our military the equipment they require to preserve the freedoms we enjoy every day… even sitting here at our computers and debating what is right or wrong is a freedome we should be willing to protect.
Three cheers to our Canadian guys and gals who are taking on a massive task for each and everyone of us. We should be treating these people as true heros and we all be praying to God for their safety and guidance.
Maybe it will take an attack on Canadian soil before many of the passive, tree hugging, non committal people in Canada to see that this indeed is war. Like WW2, it is a war to protect freedoms… like WW2 it is a war against a corrupt regime… like WW2, it is importnat to us all so that our children, and all future generations can enjoy the any freedoms we all take for granted.
Canadians to kill Islamofascists
I wish I was going with them:
Canadian troops have launched a major operation deep into insurgent country in southern Afghanistan, where local authorities fear to tread and Canadians have already come under attack.
Hundreds of troops from two companies…
Afghanistan is the most clear-cut case of oppression in the world right now. If you study how the Taliban obtained power, and what they’ve done with it, you should have no problem with them being overthrown.
The oppression of women, children, the Shia arabs, and the martial punishments imposed in perceived enemies of the Taliban are only the beginning. To me, the question is not whether Afghanistan is a worthwhile pursuit, the question is whether Canada is willing to take a role in this mission.
Like it or not, that question was answered; we have taken a role. Under the Liberal government. Without a parliamentary debate. The reason we didn’t hear as much complaining then was because the CPC supported that decision, even when they were in opposition. Stockwell Day, their foreign affairs critic, said that allow the NDP to pass their motion restricting the deployment of troops without parliamentary approval shows the Taliban that Canada is not going to send reinforcements to replace Canadians they take out. (I can’t provide a link to the quote, because I heard him say it personally).
My uncle is in the military. He was on exchange to the British military during the Iraq war, and yes, he was there. He 8 months on standby in Kuwait, studying Iraq under Saddam to determine if he felt justified taking him down. When he finally went in, he was proud to go. For Afghanistan, we have a volunteer army, and as long as we provide them the support they need I’m proud that they’re over there. I’d sign up myself, except my wife has told me in no uncertain terms she would kill me (she’s far more dangerous than the Taliban).
People who call Afghanistan “Little Iraq” or the like should be ashamed of themselves. The Taliban have admitted to supporting Al Qeada in thier attacks. Try reading a little before you open your mouth.
Islamist terrorists are certainly a threat to Canada. Afghanistan is the best place to fight them.
As for “little Iraq,” let’s not forget that Iraq, like Afghanistan, openly sponsored terrorism. The two main theaters of this war are not substantially different.
The military needs to be rebuilt and fully equipped.
Perhaps even more importantly, the case for war – because this is war – needs to be made to the Canadian people. Stephen Harper needs to provide real leadership on this. There have been encouraging signs, and I hope he follows through.
I think that the point is this: why the inflammatory headline? I don’t think that the PPCLI is on a “hunt” at all, the language is misleading.
I was watching the CTV newsnet coverage of the Lt. Greene attack, and it described how Canadian soldier’s “chased doen the ax-weilding man and killed him” after the attack. None of the other news coverage described the events in such a way; the language implied a revenge killing, and I did not beleive it.
I suspect that this is what Kate is getting at: the language that the press is using is misleading, and seems to be covertly undermining the Canadian military presence and mission in Afganistan.
PPCLI recon represents Canada’s best.
GM’s comments catch my attention. In her
top line she says ‘Am I the only one amused.’ In several several of his columns, Jim Hunt would start his column with this sentence. I kinda stopped reading his columns some years back. But I
remember his sports radio commments back in the seventies with CFTR 680. I of course was still in school at the time and would turn it on every morning at about 7:20. He passed away recently at the age of 79. I’m guessing he has a microphone in
front of him with God as his amplifier. I haven’t read his columns recently but I’m sure people
will miss him. RIP Jim. Other then that, I don’t remember libs mentioning National Interest. The Conservatives need to change that.
WHAT IS my LIMIT?
We have a war to fight and win. Period. That means all of us, not just the US, UK, and others. We are in Afghanistan, granted. We should be everywhere there is a fight to fight.
PERIOD.
We should equip our military as though our lives and our way of life depend on it because it does.
MY limit: When we have to fight these evil madmen door to door and they have come to OUR door.
For if we do not fight them now we will fight them there and then.
They want nothing less than our extinction and we will not allow it. OUR military men and women fight and we support them now and always.
Our government folks need to get onside and it appears our newly elected take it seriously and will fund the military. A tad late, but better than nothing.
IF we ever have to fight this mess on our own soil and defend our homes literally, the first folks I want hauled up are the Kennedys, Kerrys , Martins, Chretiens, Clintons et al. Their blather is what is causing us so much trouble right now and their little behind the scenes deals that serve us no good.
Canada had a population of 11 million and as Fred
says, 1 million uniformed men. There was a time when women loved a man in uniform. Any uniform. Police and Military personnel were the most popular. They loved the Uniform and I liked to wear it. It gave you a sense of pride. I think that’s changed somewhat.
I visited the big city lib blog and it was white text on black background which is a typical choice for an adolescent. I mean you start to squint and blink after the third line.
This is one of the most arrogant shits I have come across.
Check it out … in his own words. And man … this is entertaiment.
——————————————–
“What this Blog is About
There is no crisis in Liberalism.
There is, however, a crisis in American Liberalism. And I, a Big City Liberal from Toronto, Canada, have come to help you poor suckers out.
You see, in Canada Liberalism is an entirely different animal. We do not wring our hands and wonder what side of the issue we are on. We don’t worry about how perhaps our ideological opponents might have a point. We’re not impressed by cowboys or the rural lifestyle, and so we do not wonder if our political/ideological opponents possess an “authenticity” that we lack.
We know what we believe. And when it comes to dealing with our Conservative counterparts up here in Canada, we hunt them for dinner.
I have come to teach you to be like us. How to wear that sneer so it cuts like a surgeon’s obsidian blade, and how to smite your ideological enemies with the humor, arrogance, and the smugness that is your birthright as liberals.
Listen good, my little Yankee cousins. The first lesson is to follow.”
————————————————
John Keegan once hypothesized (regarding WWI casualties) that massive opposition started by the point that the dead numbered those in uniform. Just a thought.
Terrorism is a threat to the security of Canada …” – GM.
Terrorism is the continuation of warfare by other means (pace Clausewitz). Who has been making war on Canada by this means or any other, either before 9/11, on 9/11, or since? On the other hand, were there any attacks on US interests overseas by any chance? Any embassies, barracks or warships attacked? It’s the foreign policy, stupid, not a hate of freedom and democracy, or a clash of civilizations or religions. But since facing that reality would entail practical implications, it is easier to create “global” or “international terrorism” as a propaganda chimera and declare war on that.
Now, that we are part of the war against “international terrorism,” or rather al-Quaeda and the Taliban, we should not be surprised to be on the “target list” of any terrorists concerned, as our CDS has warned us.
Let’s be realistic, which, when dealing with matters of war and peace (and the lives and deaths of soldiers,) is the least we can do. When pressed by the USA, we joined the Coalition of the Coerced in the lesser of two evils, Iraq or Afghanistan. Avoiding American displeasure and economic retribution is the real national interest involved, not the defence against a common enemy, or helping a poor neighbour under attack. If they had resisted the temptation to pursue whatever aims in Iraq, the USA could have dealt with Afghanistan quite handily by themselves. Pretending now to fight for a peaceful, modern, democratic and prosperous Afghanistan is eyewash. There are lots of countries in our own hemisphere where we should do that.
What’s the limit? There isn’t one, because we have undertaken a commitment, and we and our troops have a reputation to uphold. Should we have gone in in the first place? Well, Chretien did chose the lesser evil, but that doesn’t make it kosher. So let us hold our noses and bend to our national commitment, and silently apologize to our troops for putting them there. It will be harder for them to suffer the consequences than for us to live with the results.
If they are going after Osama and the Taliban to finish it then my answer is 187.
If not, then zero.
“…any region of the world ruled by fanatics can become the incubator for tragedy right here in Canada.”
RIGHT ON! WELL SAID!
(uh…you WERE talking about the United States…right?)
I believe it was General McKenzie I heard on the radio some years back who stated that per capita,Canadian soldiers killed more of the enemy than any other army in the world this past century.Truly a proud history for our young men and women,despite the recent neglect they’ve suffered.
My father was a stretcher bearer for the Canadian army,my mother was a London telephone operator during the blitz.They could both tell chilling stories of the horrors of war but both knew it was a necessity evil to save our way of life,and ultimately,our loved ones.
I’m afraid the naysayers today in Canada will have squandered the sacrifices and lives of literally tens of millions if they turn their backs on this most important of responsibilities.
What is our limit?…How many brave souls must die?…I’m afraid the only honest answer is as many as it takes to ensure our freedom lives!
Thanks to those who raised the past reputation of Canada as a nation neither isolated from the whole of the world or pretending to matter. Most Canadians, those who don’t know what is like to equivocate and exercize moral relativism, are clear that we have paid for our freedom and won’t shirk from paying that price again.
How will we pay for the build up our military to levels that are allies deem our fair share? Will we sell bonds to finance the same effort it took to preserve the peace so long running since the end of WW II?
I am so glad that I am coming to the end of my life rather than just beginning it. I lived through WW2, saw Korea, also Vietnam. Had friends in both Korea and Vietnam that were killed and my grandfather in WW1. Am a 6th generation Canadian/American and could always say that I was proud of both countries. Today, I am angry at the weak-kneed populace that inhabits my country. How many deaths are too many – just one. That does not mean I am against our troops being in Afganistan. The Liberal government sent our troops there. If we cut and run then we are a country of cowards just like the terrorists believe. If we do that – they win.
Our army is trained to fight. Maybe the Canadians of today think we are just peacekeepers, but before you can keep the peace you have to get rid of the terrorists that are causing the inhabitants of that country anguish. Now, if our troops are attacked they cannot turn the other cheek like some of these idiot Canadians expect. That means, they have no choice but to fight back. That is WAR .
When 9/11 took place war was declared on the States just like Pearl Harbour. This was even worse because they attacked civilians with U.S. domestic flights filled with just plain citizens. These damn cowards didn’t even have the guts to do like the Japanese did it.
When the so called Canadians that inhabit my country today start seeing the body bags coming home they will all cry out to bring our troops home. If the government allows this then you had better start building your bomb sheltars like we had back in the 50’s. They were built in vain back then but will be very useful for what we will be in for. It’s going to take one disaster right here in our native land to wake a hell of a lot of Canadians. When that happens I will feel awfully sorry for the Muslims that live in our midst. You see, Canadians only pretend to be nice – once there angry that PC goes out the window.
Think it’s high time to give the Kudos to our service men and women who are fighting – yes – for our freedom as well. To carry on as the MSM and some of the trolls on this sight is enough to dishearten our military. It is just making it harder for them to be away from family and friends. If you can remember how the Viet Vets suffered because of this attitude that the American people had during that war then you will understand what our troops are feeling.
“Who has been making war on Canada by this means or any other, either before 9/11, on 9/11, or since?”
Well, if I wanted to get technical, since Canada is part of NATO, and it is a principle of NATO that an attack on one member is an attack on the alliance, we suffered the equivalent of an attack on 9/11. But that aside…..
The issue isn’t that they were making war on us, the issue is that they constituted a THREAT.
It is not possible in the modern world to sit back and wait for an attack. Western nations must identify threats as they are emerging and stop the attacks before they happen. European nations have recognized this for centuries.
A threat to the stability of vital regions, to the global balance of power, or to vital Canadian interests overseas is the same as a direct threat to Canada. The geographic distinction is only a technicality. Threats to our interests abroad can evolve into direct attacks, and it is incumbent upon any responsible government to prevent them or to weaken the parties responsible for the threat.
…………………………………….
“It’s the foreign policy, stupid, not a hate of freedom and democracy, or a clash of civilizations or religions.”
I didn’t say this was a clash of civilizations, did I?
America, through it’s involvement in the Middle East, does most of the “heavy lifting” in the security of the region, and this benefits not only the U.S. but other western powers.
Where a policy that benefits Canada is the target of an attack, it is a perfectly rational calculation for Canada to act in defence of that policy. Incidently, the more we contribute, the more say we have in the direction that western/U.S. policy takes in the region. This is the most influence we can have, since we currently lack the capacity to act alone.
This is about Canadian security in the context of global security, and the ability of Canada to protect policies that affect our security.
If Canadian and other western troops left Afghanistan prematurely the Islamic Fascists would be quickly back in power. The terror camps rebuilt and more 9-11’s, perhaps some in Canada, would be guaranteed.
Western civilization is engaged in a long existential struggle with Islamic Fascism. It has been almost five years since 9-11. In a similar period of time Euro and Japanese fascism was pretty much rolled up in the last century. This may take a generation. We had best get in touch with our inner Churchills. Pray for the safety and success of our soldiers and those of our allies.
I have a nephew and a niece serving. I pray for their safety and that of their comrades every day. They freely made their decision to serve. Either support our troops and their mission, regardless of what it might be or move somewhere else. Always pray for their safe return, no matter what god you pray to.
While I certainly agree that the Taliban are no friends of most Afgans, and they were no friends of the west, we (Canadians) need to keep a close eye on the ‘hearts and minds’ of the regular Afgans. Bigger, more experienced armies than our have been ground to dust in that far-off land. And I don’t mean causualties in the hundreds, I mean wiped-out to a man.
3,000 dead in the WTC attacks, hundreds more in train, bus and restaurant bombings – the limit was reached, now we’re at war.
If the only way to stop the fascists is by hunting down and killing every last one of them – so be it.
PGP?
Why is it that so many of Kates posts degenerate into shit brained rants from Liberals and unnecessary responses from the right?
Ban the trolls!
I agree.
The problem with Afghanistan is, whatever it started out as, it has turned into a quagmire. We run around shooting a few Taliban, and a bunch more come in over the border from Pakistan.
Two years, three years, ten years (General Hillier’s estimate), and that situation won’t change. Do we want to ground down our army in Afghanistan the same way the States are doing in Iraq? That is one question. All those people here saying “We’ll pay any price”, I wonder if they’ll be saying the same thing ten years from now when they’ve gone through puberty and grown up and Canadian soldiers are still getting shot at?
The other thing of course is that right now our Canadian troops are simply functioning as replacement cogs in the U.S. war machine. And the Yanks, for all their big cowboy talk, want the fuck out. Remember, the ebbs and flows of the Afghanistan war have been keyed to U.S. electoral politics (ie avoid casulaty spikes near the mid-terms and General Election). The Americans want to bail and, as this administration has no honor, I fear Canada and the other allies in Afghanistan will be left holding the bag. America wants to slough this war off on us. Mark my words.
And read ’em at the Blog:
http://bigcitylib.blogspot.com/
Hmm…
“You clearly have shit for brains.”
“And the Yanks, for all their big cowboy talk, want the fuck out.”
I generally avoid bloggers who are too quick to resort to the usual four-letter words.
It’s a fairly reliable sign that they’re loudmouthed gasbags who can’t put over a point of view without recourse to crudity.
JJM,
Avoiding is always better than facing an actual argument, hmmm? If my foul language upsets you, I shall try to be more sensitive in the future. I didn’t realize people here were so delicate.
Don’t forget who made it possible for the Taliban to rule Afghanistan–the US–it is the US who teamed up with the Taliban to defeat the Russians. We reap what the Americans have sown.
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/03/10/canadians-mission060310.html
–when the going gets tough–the tough get whisked away?
I support the role of Canadian troops in Afghanistan but I think we shouldn’t overdose on illusions. Canada did well in the Second World War but also left its fighting troops unsupported and taking casualties because of lack of reinforcement. The majority of uniformed men were kept in Canada, doing nothing and known as zombies because of their idleness. This is a danger in Afghanistan too if we don’t deal with the skimpiness of the resources we are deploying there.
The idea that going into Afganistan will win anything shows a lack of knowledge of the history of the country. There is no winning because these people we are fighting live there. It almost instinctual to fight foreign occupiers at this point. So into this hell-hole waltz Canadians. I have seen a little of what they did to the Russians on video, just snippets, but it is beyond anything you want to have happen to your worst enemy nevermind our precious soldiers.
So why are we there? To save ourselves from Al Queda? To fight them over there so we won’t have to fight them over here? The last I heard Al Queda was in 24 countries. The largest cells are in Indonesia where you have the largest number of Muslims.
So we are not going to stop them by occupying Afganistan that’s just nieve. So why are we there really? Pressure from the USA. They need us to cover their asses because Iraq is a quagmire and they can’t now justify imposing a draft to enlist more troops. They have said all along they don’t need anymore but obviously they always underestimated everything(yes literally).
So lets get real. We are in an Islamic fundamentalist state. The enemy is ubiquitous and we are in the middle. Historically, they have never done anything but fight occupiers. No matter how long we are there and how many Canadians die or are maimed the people we are fighting will remain because it is their home.
Our best offense is a good defense. Good intelligence will be our only and best defense against random terror violence. The military should perhaps be reorganized into small elite fighting forces that can move quickly and with lethal force. Targeting known terrorists and hunting them down is also useful. If they set up training camps or other terrorist settlements then attack those. In other words we cannot kill them because they are everywhere and nowhere. We must have diligent intelligence and respond whenever they surface. It isn’t pretty. It isn’t neat and tidy either but it is the reality. We are playing whack-a-mole on an international level with determined moles.
Good point steve d–they live there!!! Where are they going to go? It is their own country they are fighting for. Would we do otherwise if someone came in here?
If we are there to show them a different way of life we are certainly doing it the wrong way–kill or be killed is not a way to win hearts and minds to a different way of life.
You are bang on–we are there to cover the US ass–nothing more nothing less–this is a situation created by the US with bin Laden and the Taliban–and now our children pay for it with their lives.
It is naieve to state how great we were in WW11–we were cannon fodder. Go to England to see the memorials–the Americans are praised–we are a footnote! Our men, then and now, fought with with cheap, ineffectual equipment–time to wake up and smell the coffee–we are being used and abused
Pulling out is not an option. We must fight to the end. We have to do whatever it takes. I would rather die in the first ditch than the last. If I was younger I would be in the fray so I can only do so vicariously through my son who is an officer in the air element. I would hate to see him come to harm especially since he has three young children but he will do what has to be done and that’s what’s called taking responsibility. There are far too many cowards in our country and as has been stated before if we don’t get them over there we will surely have to deal with them here.
Hey bigcitylib – perhaps you want to take a read in the Toronto Star today to inform yourself of the “peacekeeping” our troops have undertaken prior to Afganistan!
I would post a link but if you truly want to become informed about our “peackeeping” you can check it out for yourself over at Bourque!.
It is time that the left realized that Canadians have been kept in the dark because it was politcally expedient to keep us in the dark about what our troops were actually involved in on their “peacekeeping” jaunts!
How convenient it is, that everything can be traced back to an American source. The Americans are not our enemy. There are, in fact, our closest friends, despite soft wood lumber, border closures to beef, and a host of other protectionist issues. I would be the first to agree that the US does not do everything right.. in fact, I get very annoyed at some of their actions. But despite all that, they are still our best friends and that is a good thing seeing we have to share the same continent. The Americans have figured at least one thing right though. When a person immigrates into the US, they become an American first and foremost, and their ethnic origin is secondary but still of imprtance. Here in Canada, an immigrant comes into our country and our government gives them a grant to set up their own ethnic association so that they can retain their culture and be Canadian just when it is convenient. I have often thought that if 5 left handed Lesbian women in wheelchairs were to immigrate to Canada, they would be eligible to go to the trough and receive a $50,000 grant to set up a society for left handed Lesbians in wheel chairs.
The time has come for us to put this anti- Bush, Anti-anything US stuff behind us. Even though I could choke them somedays for their actions against us, we will never get anywhere’s just bad mouthing them constantly. Some of you on here could not compliment the US for anything they do right… and they do alot right. God Bless American/Canadian relations.
PGP and Backhoe, you wonder “Why is it that so many of Kates posts degenerate into shit brained rants from Liberals and unnecessary responses from the right?”
Let me suggest an answer. Without the benefit of opposing views, you merely would be restricted to mutual mental masturbation over the righteousness of Conservatism. (I do apologize for the sexual image, but it illustrates the point.)
Opposing views are the precondition for debate, and you do not have democracy where you do not have debate. So if even non-Liberal “trolls” like me throw a little cold water on your public celebrations, accept that as proof that freedom (of expression, for instance) still is alive and well, that we are open for discussion, and try to convince us of errors of fact or logic.
Silencing opponents vice convincing them is a hallmark of fascism. Let’s not go down that road. And hurling insults only shows a lack of useful ammunition – and intellectual immaturity.
Just a quick heads up re. Rick Salutin’s column on Afghanistan in the Globe today. It is entitled “Trust the Public on Afghanistan”, and defends the skepticism of the Canadian people when it comes to our Afghani mission, as expressed through several recent polls.
Many good points in the article. One obvious one Rick doesn’t bring up is, of course, public opinion vs. elite media opinion concerning the Iraq invasion. While the Canadian public, as poll after poll indicated, was opposed, it seems that the vast majority of columnists and editorial staffs at Canada’s major (and minor) newspapers were ready to go over the top with George W.
War is a binary thing. You win or you lose.
Instead of talking about ‘limits’ we should be talking about what we can do at home to help keep as many of our soldiers alive while they are doing the job of protecting Canada (and the world by extension).
There is a right-wing e-mail making the rounds on both sides of the border entitled “What’s Wrong with this Picture?”. It has pictures of American soldiers in prayer, a practice the author(s)see threatened and feel called upon to defend. Buried in the captions is this little gem:
“May God Bless Americians [sic] and Canadians, One Nation Under GOD!”
Grant, I hope that God doesn’t bless American/Canadian relations that far.