Journalists in the Malasia and Yemen are teaching Western publishers and governments a thing or two about courage. It is in the West, however, where the reaction is positively chilling.
The European Union may try to draw up a media code of conduct to avoid a repeat of the furore caused by the publication across Europe of cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad, an EU commissioner said today.
In an interview with Britain’s Daily Telegraph, EU Justice and Security Commissioner Franco Frattini said the charter would encourage the media to show ”prudence” when covering religion.
”The press will give the Muslim world the message: We are aware of the consequences of exercising the right of free expression,” he told the newspaper.
Perhaps they should save themselves needless duplication and cc the Chinese world.
Epoch Times
[T]wo armed men forced themselves into the home in Atlanta of Epoch Times lead information technology specialist Mr. Yuan P. Li, beating him and stealing two of his laptops. After Mr. Li managed to free himself from the extension cord used to bind him, he was taken to an area hospital for treatment. His statement describing this attack is published below.
This crime, occurring in a very safe area in Atlanta and done without concern for the taking of valuables, breaks new ground in the Chinese Communist regime’s campaign against The Epoch Times.
That campaign has previously taken the form of arresting Epoch Times staff inside mainland China, and, outside mainland China, systematically stealing newspapers, attempting to intimidate advertisers, applying pressure to deny Epoch Times staff the opportunity to cover events at which Chinese government officials appear, and threatening the family members inside mainland China of Epoch Times staff living outside China.
In addition, The Epoch Times in Malaysia has been blocked from publication due to the Chinese regime’s interference, according to press watchdog groups. Also, Epoch Times offices in Sydney and Toronto have received in the mail suspicious envelopes that were suspected of containing toxic materials.
In South Africa, the Independent Media Group has now apologized for publishing quotes from Salman Rushdie’s The Satanic Verses.
Which brings me to a more personal message to a young reporter who interviewed me yesterday. Perhaps it will help him better understand my reasons for publishing the Jyllands-Posten cartoons.
Brodie Fenlon – this post is for you and your editor.
It is useful to know that the Toronto Sun’s editorial policy includes “provocation avoidance”. Now, when we read your coverage of politically sensitive news, we must take into consideration the possibility that your facts and analysis have been tempered by an undisclosed measure of self-censorship, and judge your worth as journalists accordingly.
(Sun piece is here)
Kathy Shaidle was interviewed by email, and has posted the whole thing. Damian Penny is explains “Freedom of Blasthemy”.
Colin “You’d think tolerance would be a two way street!”
It rarely is. There’s usually one side that’s being more of an bastard than the other. C’est la vie.
Steve in BC,
There is a difference between freedom of speech and freedom from criticism. Garth Turner’s speech is policitcal speech deserving of the highest deference from interference by governmental power and and governmental power should protect him from violence or threats of violence. But free speech also means that others may pillory him through their (non-defamatory) speech. Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. called it the Marketplace of Ideas. Some ideas just don’t sell widely. It a market; not a marketing board.
Sherwood Baker “And I thought the Europeans had finaly woken from their slumber. How pathetic, they will all be muslims before too long!”
Athiests actually. And so will a lot of the 2nd and 3rd generation children of Muslim immigrants.
Actually, weasel, what you meant to say is:
“I apologize to Kathy Shaidle for the petty ad hominem, and I realize that if it happens again, i may find my access to this blog terminated.”
Are we clear?
This isn’t black and white. I’ve watched people argue both extremes (“it’s my right to say what ever the hell I want”… to “you can’t say anything that might possibly offend anybody else”). The truth is (as usually) somewhere in the middle.
It’s clear that there needs to be SOME limitations on free speech. I shouldn’t be able to slander someone without penalty. I shouldn’t be able to give away state secrets. I shouldn’t be able to tell Saddam how exactly to build a bomb to eradicate Isreal. So we aren’t arguing about whether or not there should be SOME limits…
On the other hand, we also aren’t arguing that it isn’t ok to comment on the actions of an identifiable segment of society – even if it goes so far as to piss them off. I can’t count the pictures/cartoons/editorials that say George Bush and the Republican’s aren’t a bunch of baby killers. Nobody is burning down embassies because of that.
There needs to be some balance between a person’s right to speak their mind to the right of an identifiable group in society to not be injured by those comments. HOWEVER, it’s not clear to me that the publication of a cartoon with the prophet actually injures that segment of society. I’ve heard it argued that the reason they are so annoyed is that the face of the prophet was depicted. If that’s the case, then I think the cartoon had a right to be published as imposing the religious beliefs of the minority on the majority. Just because they can’t draw pictures of the prophet doesn’t mean that I can’t. If I want to poke fun at some ridiculous aspect of someone’s religion so be it.
The fact that he had a bomb in his turban does indicate to me that the author was implying that ALL Muslims are terrorists and that’s a bit like a hate crime to me (although very circumstantially) and therefore could justifiably be restricted or at least “censored” – if nothing more than for good taste. HOWEVER, once this thing became news (i.e. when the Muslim’s started rioting and demonstrating, it is open season… EVERY newspaper should be showing the damn thing so that people can make their own judgement as to the offensive nature of it. I applaud Kate for showing the cartoon here (and frankly I can’t see what the fuss is all about).
I condemn those parts of the media that are refusing to publish the picture because it’s NEWS. HOW DARE they restrict the kinds of news I’m allowed to watch. HOW DARE they decide on my behalf what I’m allowed to see. People are rioting, burning down buildings, killing each other over some cartoon they are clearly allowed to see and we can’t??? The MSM has clearly got political correctness down pat but have forgotten that they are in the business of publishing news.
Orwell was off by a few years, but was quite accurate. We’ve watched our basic freedoms succumb to political correctness for about 37 years. The worst offenders are the MSM, the leaders of the p/c movement. Guess it’s up to the bloggers to keep the light of truth shining.
Keep up the good work. If Islamics manage to get legitimate commentary categorized as hate crime, it’s going to be tough, but we won’t quit.
More El, or is that Al Misery:centuries-old blood feuds between Mohammedans.
Not, not, not in Iraq? Not George’s fault? AP is not spinning this story. No mention of Bush.
But, here is some deep background; way back to a feud in the way back beyond: 7th Century AD. >>>
“Violence has erupted in the past during Ashoura, which marks the seventh-century death of Imam Hussain, a grandson of the Prophet Muhammad. Hussain’s death in a battle fuelled a rivalry between Shiites and Sunnis over who should succeed the prophet.”
>>>>>
Bomber shatters Muslim holy day
PESHAWAR, Pakistan (AP) – Shiites and Sunnis battled each other with rockets and gunfire in northwestern Pakistan on Friday, raising the death toll from two days of Muslim sectarian violence to 38, an official said. >>>
cnews
evilprinceweasel, “No group in the history of Western civilization prior to the 20th century has a track recording of killing, persecuting, exiling, and excommunicating its opponents than the Mother Church.”
I’m no fan of the Catholic chuch myself (they sided with Franco and pinned a medal on him while he executed republicans) but their list of crimes has more to do with their longevity than being more evil than their competition. Sure they were horrible back in the day but they’re not colluding with fascists. They’ve even got the pedophile rate among priests in the US to 5%.
They’ve even admitted it was wrong to lock up Gaileo a few years back. But in a deft touch of comedy genius they blamed it on bad legal advice. It turns out they were never that fussed about the whole earth going around the sun business.
But on the other hand I’ve got two cousins (Franco spain was as catholic as fuck) who are priests and they’re great guys who provide fantastic counselling and comfort to a great number of people. And they’ve never even sodomized me or anything.
So I wouldn’t equate them with the nazi party or anything.
Maps “It’s clear that there needs to be SOME limitations on free speech”
I understand that’s a generaly held position but reasonable people do differ. I for one think freedom of speech divorced from action should be absolute. Its the point where nasty talk becomes nasty walk that the law should get involved.
For example the recently imprisoned cleric in the UK was distributing manuals on bomb making and openly recruiting terrorists. At that point he’s not talking, he’s walking.
But the whole point is moot. We’ve got wi-fi, broadband and thousands of blogs in what used to be very backwards countries. Trying to stop anyone from shooting their mouth off when they’re pissed off is an excersize in pissing into the wind.
Eventually we’ll all just get used to it.
Limits on free speech are desirable, and the law has many. You maybe liable for an untrue statements made knowing others are relying on their truth, if you lie or should have exercised more care (fraudulent or negligent misrepresentation). You may be liable for making an untrue statement about someone that causes harm (defamation). Giovernment restriction is permissible if their is a “clear and present danger” of palpable harm to individuals or the state. The expression “clear and present danger” is Holmes again. Incidentally, our chief justice is an admirer of Holmes on free speech. The boundaries of permissible speech wax and wane over the years. But offending a religion has not been seriously advocated as a standard for repression since the Enlightment and Voltaire.
Unfortunately, the web is not sacred, nor a protected free speech area.
In Sweden e.g., the government, via the secret police, has shut down a web site (web edition of a newspaper actually) for publishing the Muhammed cartoons.
And Sweden is supposed to be a free country…
In the current climate, and with current laws, there’s nothing stopping the Canadian government to shut down e.g. SDA.
(Note that the first section of the Charter says that all rights and freedoms are “subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law “, i.e. they can be revoked or limited at any time.)
Dmoris should be required reading in every classroom, newsroom and university. Still, some would never take off their rose colored glasses.
Heh, NoOne: All opinion offends someone. Yeah, let’s do away with messy opinion altogether, talk about the weather, eh? Heh! Blue Sky in Vancouver today!!!!
And whoever above said “equal time” etc., that is a totally unworkable unweildly and undemocratic solution, just as equality of income seems nice but can only be achieved via totalitarian means; oh, I know, Canadian totalitarianism would be of a kindler gentler variety but nevertheless ….
And ya know what: it’s not fair to make individual editors decide what’s offensive so let’s have a government department do it: let’s call it The Ministry of Niceness and Sensitivity; we’ll get Paul Martin to run it.
Heh, a real life cartoon.
Israel plans to build ‘museum of tolerance’ on Muslim graves
By Donald Macintyre in Jerusalem
Published: 09 February 2006
Skeletons are being removed from the site of an ancient Muslim cemetery in Jerusalem to make way for a $150m (�86m) “museum of tolerance” being built for the Los Angeles-based Simon Wiesenthal Centre.
Let’s hope there are no violent demonstrations or bloggers will be calling on authorities in Canada to build “museums of tolerance” on Muslim graveyards in the name of stopping the “provocation avoidance”.
Garry P,
You will have seen the photos from Eng. I’m sure. Well, on the blog a policeman said the BBC ‘perceived’ the number of protesters as 30-100 while the police in their riot gear ‘perceived’ closer to 2-3,000 protesters.
The CBC reports more accurately I think;
but now that I’ve latched onto this ‘perceived’ concept, I will never be sure. ;>}
My friend Elizabeth makes a great point: Muslims still have to walk past the pork chops at the A&P.
We should never bow to this bullying tactic.
“Do what I say or else somebody dies.” Should result in the person who said such being the one who dies.
All the countries where violence and vandalism have occurred need to swiftly arrest the perpetrators and lock them up for a very long time. Seems most of this has been caught on camera – start arresting people.
I’d say you could make a case for conspiracy to commit murder based on the protest signs in Denmark.
“Intifada”: PC word meaning >>>> War. The writer says the US is the “profound loser”. That is bhggfklt: The losers are the common people in the West Bank/Gaza Strip. http://www.spectator.org/blogger.asp
Third Intifada imminent – Friday, February 10, 2006 @ 1:24:49 AM
Spoke several excellent sources re Israel and Palestinians, and all agree that a third intifada is imminent, though one did call it a war, not an intifada. Hamas will not relent on its position that it is committed to a violent defeat of Israel. The intifada will be run by Al Aqsa from the West Bank, especially the Balata refugee camp, and by Islamic Jihad from the West Bank and Gaza. The third intifada will include suicide belts as well as the first ever rocket attacks from the West Bank into Israel.
Israel’s response to the intifada is not predictable. Olmert is campaigning to the left to win as many peace-now seats as possible. Netanyahu will stay hard right and urge war and effective annexation of the territories.
Al Aqsa and Islamic Jihad gain with the new intifada by establishing credibility as the street fighters, while Hamas gains by assuming the role of diplomat to the Europeans: the Putin gesture to Hamas is the beginning of the reinvention of a terror gang into a freedom collective.
The profound loser is the United States, which is backing a false witness (Abbas) and an appeaser (Olmert) and a failed formula (the Road Map) and betraying allies (the Quartet). Grim weeks ahead, then it will get worse. >>>
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1576032/posts
Iraq has a high literacy rate. On our departure from Iraq eventually the best insurance for an ongoing democracy would be a free computer and high speed access in every household.
Why waste an opportunity to give newly democratized people a level playing field in case their MSM becomes as rotten as ours.
“No group in the history of Western civilization prior to the 20th century has a track recording of killing, persecuting, exiling, and excommunicating its opponents than the Mother Church.”
Well, Weasel, so what? No culture/religion has an unblemished history.
No group in the 21st century has had the track record of “killing, persecuting, exiling, and excommunicating its opponents” like Islam.
Are we supposed to surrender to Dhimmitude because a thousand years ago our ancestors were mean? Cro-magnons probably killed a lot of Neandertals, should I be paralyzed with guilt?
Apologies for the crude sexual references, Kate, but I still think Kathy is an extremist and weirdo.
If you have to ban me because you suddenly got a case of “provocation avoidance” all on your own, then it’s been nice knowing ya!
His Unholiness, that Most Evil Prince Weasel
This is a privately owned site, and as such, I have the right to decide how people behave here. I consider Kathy Shaidle a friend, so your comment became personal – not political or critical. Just as I wouldn’t tolerate someone bashing a friend in my home in such a way, I won’t tolerate it here.
In fact, I should probably address this in a more specific manner. The comment named a private person, and suggested she be sexually assaulted.
I have read similar comments about myself on other sites, most of them – not all – anonymously. That’s no longer debate – it’s incitement to do others harm.
Keep it in mind when you see such things written – especially about those of us with the guts to sign our names to what we write.
Kate,
You certainly don’t need my support….you do very well on your own.
Just the same…..WELL SAID.
What’s funny is cheese buying being equated with the class of civilizations.
Brave cheese buyers across the ages.
the cheeze thing or the Danish cookie thing, is small. it is the thinking that goes with this decision of support, (no matter how small) that is great.
we all look to the Moslem community for a sign of tolerance, or a sigh that they can question themselves. Something that doesn’t equate a cartoon, to an escalation of global violence.
we don’t all have the means to go and buy a new B+O stereo from Denmark… maybe the Danes do not need that so much, as to know we will not abandon our freedoms in the face of their objections.
That Danish paper and the other christian one screwed up. Cartoon violence against Danish embassies for Danish behaviour has no meaning or context here and doesn’t make me feel sorry enough for cheese.
It’s not the same here, unless you really want to stretch the similarities. Anyone who talks about endgame, clash of civilizations, line drawn in the cheese, WW5 the lego war is just using this (Shaidle ,Malkin, LGF) to keep up their old prejudices and looking for more supporters.
Bigger problems here with Stockwell Day being in charge of defending us.
Blessed are the cheese-makers! (Oops, does that offend a religion?)
Perhaps this will do for Danish Cheese what the Cheese Shop skit did for Wensleydale, which my British freinds tell me rescued the cheese from obscurity.
Customer:
You… do have some cheese, don’t you?
Owner:
(brightly) Of course, sir. It’s a cheese shop, sir. We’ve got…
Customer:
No no… don’t tell me. I’m keen to guess.
Owner:
Fair enough.
Customer:
Uuuuuh, Wensleydale.
Owner:
Yes?
Customer:
Ah, well, I’ll have some of that!
Owner:
Oh! I thought you were talking to me, sir. Mister Wensleydale, that’s my name.
(pause)
there was an ad here in the west, like this…
“with cheeze, you’ve got choice”
and I agree…. “ummmmmm”
;;;;;;; more LGF, eh? Kraut is from Canada, eh? >>>
Krauthammer: Not Moderates, But Hypocrites
Charles Krauthammer dispenses the straight truth about Muslim �moderates� who share the goals and ideology of the radicals: Curse of the Moderates.
What passes for moderation in the Islamic community � �I share your rage but don�t torch that embassy� � is nothing of the sort. It is simply a cynical way to endorse the goals of the mob without endorsing its means. It is fraudulent because, while pretending to uphold the principle of religious sensitivity, it is interested only in this instance of religious insensitivity.
Have any of these �moderates� ever protested the grotesque caricatures of Christians and, most especially, Jews that are broadcast throughout the Middle East on a daily basis? The sermons on Palestinian TV that refer to Jews as the sons of pigs and monkeys? The Syrian prime-time TV series that shows rabbis slaughtering a gentile boy to ritually consume his blood? The 41-part (!) series on Egyptian TV based on that anti-Semitic czarist forgery (and inspiration of the Nazis), �The Protocols of the Elders of Zion,� showing the Jews to be engaged in a century-old conspiracy to control the world?
A true Muslim moderate is one who protests desecrations of all faiths. Those who don�t are not moderates but hypocrites, opportunists and agents for the rioters, merely using different means to advance the same goal: to impose upon the West, with its traditions of freedom of speech, a set of taboos that is exclusive to the Islamic faith. These are not defenders of religion but Muslim supremacists trying to force their dictates upon the liberal West.
And these �moderates� are aided and abetted by Western �moderates� who publish pictures of the Virgin Mary covered with elephant dung and celebrate the �Piss Christ� (a crucifix sitting in a jar of urine) as art deserving public subsidy, but who are seized with a sudden religious sensitivity when the subject is Muhammad. >> more
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/09/AR2006020901434.html
As someone who has been around for a while, I find it rather odd just how society evolves (or de-evolves). When I went to university back in ’70 (never show a first year where the Engineer’s beer fridge is) the place was supposedly an oasis of enlightened thought. The commies in the arts department set up their table with red tablecloth every other week to show how great Albanian life was. Engineers hired “Lady Godiva” to ride a horse through the commons and Comp Sci students wandered the halls late at night with armloads of fanfold paper.
The media was always looking for fresh stories and angles to cover in an attempt to raise an eyebrow or two. The Us and Them was the cold war but nobody got stoned (not that way) for thinking Lenin was a good guy.
Fast forward 35 years or so and we see so much politically correctness and secularism today that students at university are allowed to say or do what they want… as long as it fits the guidelines and the media is worried about offending people who don’t even watch, hear or read the offending article.
I think the cartoon deal is a rouse. I don’t know what is up but I find it odd that it took from September to now for the spontaneous uprising and indignation. It probably took a while to find that many Dannish flags.
And last but now least the rant of Ms Shaidle. The lady is not afraid to speak her mind and does get passionate about it but the (poor) joke about her sex life was to say the least tacky, especially in a public forum. Kathy is a person that I would enjoy sharing a brew (or a double double) with and shoot the breeze with along with Kate, Duke, Angry and a few other straight shooters.
I just noticed that I am bloviating so I’ll shut up now… have a good weekend.
For info on moderate Islam try this site:http://www.akdn.org/index.html
I knew a chap years ago who was an Ismaili Muslim, believe me, they are very different from the fellows burning embassies right now.
dmorris,
I echo your observations of Ismaili Muslims. I have dealt with many and they were shrewd, common sense and pragmatic. They even gave me cordial Christmas presents. I expect they feel sickened by all this.
dmorris; Very interesting reading but I still wonder why there is no outcry from these muslims as the radicals are giving all a bad name.
Kate:
I can see your faculties of reason are deteriorating with your anger… re-read my post and yours and then see if I truly suggested a crime…sounds a little like the shrill feminists you love to decry..only when cornered though!?!
I voluntarily ban myself!
tomax offers evilprinceweasel some belly button lint as a peace offering…
Thanks Kate…..pointing out the significant difference between the Spineless Socialists of Europe and the Independent Defenders of freedom in the struggling Asian and African nations.
Just in case any christian didn’t think islamic law applied to them check out what happened to this poor unfortunate. Lashes anyone?http://www.afrol.com/News2002/sud004_stoning.htm
Sorry, I should add the stoning was successfully appealed however a sentence of seventy- five lashes was imposed and carried out upon pronouncement of sentence
http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGAFR540052002?open&of=ENG-SDN
steve in bc,
“Does freedom of speech apply to Garth Turner or do we not have an open political culture?”
Anyone can say whatever they want. It doesn’t mean that there won’t be any ramifications. These ramifications, if any, tend to happen a lot faster the closer you get to home base (family, friends, workplace, etc).
I think that the PM made a good choice in not picking Mr. Turner for cabinet – and Mr. Turner, utilizing his freedoms, proved why that choice was a good one.
hey evilprinceweasel
Judging by your comments you seem to be quit an asshole, so for that reason I thought I’d just take this chance to correct you. The Christian Church is the body of Christ so the term Mother Church doesn’t really apply. Sounded kinda soviet though, nice try.
Penny “On our departure from Iraq eventually the best insurance for an ongoing democracy would be a free computer and high speed access in every household.”
Actually the Islamic radicals do quite well on the internet.
I’d agree that wired Iraqis would be a good thing but its not going to happen anytime soon. The promised reconstruction money is being yanked. The Iraqis are just going to have to sort themselves out.
Designing Public Restrooms for Muslim Cultures
One such group of people who have special requirements when it comes to using restrooms are Muslims, who make up one billion of the world population…
…The following are some important considerations in the design of restrooms for this group of users.
Muslim�s toileting practices could be compounded into six areas� entering, seclusion, the prohibition of facing the Qiblah (which is the Ka�abah in Mecca), squatting, cleaning and stepping out…
http://www.restrooms.org/page03ar.html
“Designing Public Restrooms for Muslim Cultures”
With rules like this “writing your name in snow” could become an X-treme Sport.
Tex-can: The Ismailis probably don’t speak up because they’re afraid of reprisals from the Shiites. If my relatives were in countries where they hold sway, I might think twice about offending them, too.
Muslim Protest Photo Gallery
The Jawa Report has a photo gallery of the Danish cartoon protests, in more than a dozen countries around the globe. Really brings home the extent of this cosmic temper tantrum. >> via LGF
February 10, 2006
Moderate Muslim Speak Out Against Intolerance Across Globe
The following is a gallery of news photos taken at hundreds of protests, all of them held TODAY, in dozens of countries around the world. Trust me, you’ll want to scroll through the whole thing. Might take a bit to load. >>
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/156837.php
I’m just asking … really don’t know. Do we, in Canada, have any Muslim group(s) denouncing the violence by the extremists?
Ural: “Do we, in Canada, have any Muslim group(s) denouncing the violence by the extremists”
Well yes, haven’t you been watching the news? The peaceful and innocent Muslims have been doing silent protest marches denouncing the extremist cartoon attacks on their beloved profi…err prophets.
Re: “Designing Public Restrooms for Muslim Cultures”
Holy Doodoo! And some people get uptight with the “Employees must wash…” signs.
tomax,
I can’t tell if your serious.
I used to read the paper every morning. I stopped when I moved to BC about 20 years ago – there was nothing in the rags here that made sense (NDP view). I stopped watching TV news about 7 years ago … same type of reason … if I wanted to watch infomercials, there are ones better targeted to me.
I am watching the Olympic opening – I’m sure as good as Italy does we will do better for the 2010s.
I’m very prideful of our athletes.
Ural, no, just messin’ with ya, and no again, there was one Muslim group who denounced what happened, but it was a small squeak, I forgot who, what or where they said anything.
I think they are more afraid of these extreemists than Allah, who is suppose to be just.
Then again it is in their creed to kill all infedels, that way Allah will spare their souls, or something akin to that.
Got choked when the CDN’s came in … it’s going to be a great 2 weeks.