104 Replies to “Brace Yourselves”

  1. I just watched the National- they had Andrew Coyne, Chantal hebert and Gord Gibson- Mansbridge moderating; I thought, my isn’t the CBC being fair… the bit was over, there was a commrcial, then the screen went black and I heard Mansbridge laughing, saying something about “chatterboxes tonight”; it was only about 5 seconds- anyone else heat it?

  2. Harper and Grewal should resign. They lied to the Canadian public and tried to destroy reputations with there deception. What a disgrace.

  3. I can’t seem to find any of the transcripts on Grewal’s site (gurmantgrewal.ca)… am I looking in the wrong place?

  5. This is history repeating itself. It was not that long ago CBS claimed they had unearthed dirt on Bush based on the opinion of experts, and we know where that ended up.
    In this case, the experts in question don’t have the original tapes, don’t have the recording equipment used, and probably don’t even know what recording equipment was used. And further, they almost certainly don’t know what process was used to transfer the original recordings to Grewal’s web site.
    But those rather important details will not stop the left-wing dinosaurs, CP and CBC, from making bold claims. And their hunger to save the Liberals will blind them from any common sense and decency.
    I suspect CP and CBC will look like fools before this is over, just as CBS and Dan Rather did.

  6. Why is it okay for the CBC to be the organization that “hires” the the audio expert? Surely this should be left for the RCMP or the Ethics Commissioner? Of course with the CBC releasing this expert’s opinion across Canada (who says the tapes need further analysis to confirm his first impressions) has been released as though it verifies the tapes have been intentionally tampered with.

  7. So are they saying that it is these two passages that correspond to the “dead air” that the CBC’s expert detected? That press release doesn’t come right out and say that.

  8. I think you’re right, Dan.
    The Libranos are just bobbing and weaving, making noise and trying to distract attention from themselves.
    That’s OK. The more they continue to lie, the deeper they’ll sink. the more the accuse and trot out amateur hour “audio experts” the sillier they’ll look in the end.

  9. Conniving Broadcorping Castration announced on Radio News 8:00 EDT that their expert has concluded that the evidence of editing is inconclusive.
    As Charlie Brown says, “Rats.”

  10. Anybody with any knowledge in forensic analysis of recorded tapes (audio or video) knows that you need the originals to give any accurate opinion. Pure hogwash. By the way, does anybody see the CBC hiring two “experts” if it was the Liberals who had tapes on the Conservatives.
    Cal

  12. MAZ2:
    “Inconclusive” in this case means we simply refuse to pass judgement on our Liberal friends or pursue this matter further, so we are going to leave the possibility open that they may in fact have been altered.
    Exactly the same methods used by 60 Minutes in whitewashing “Rathergate”. No attempt at in-depth analysis or dogged pursuit of the truth, so Dan Rather can go on the air and say with a straight face: “Even if the documents are proven false, we still believe that the facts expressed within them are true.”
    Here, we can all look forward to Dosanjh or Martin going on air and claiming that even if there is now no definitive proof of tape doctoring, they “know” that the tapes are false, concocted by angry white CPC audio scientists at some underground laboratory deep in the heart of Alberta.

  13. There is no denying that the omission of GG saying that he “wants to be someone up there” is going to generate a lot of suspicion. I feel highly unsympathetic toward the Liberals but I am now more than ever in complete agreement with Well’s scathing critique of Harper’s team’s bungling of this file. These people are not ready to govern. Anyone up for starting a new party?

  14. “sick of the cons:” We are sick of you, if Linda Trip had not taped her interviews with her enemy it would have cost her untold money and her reputation, and her existance. If Grewall knew, that he was going to be inerviewed by his enemy it makes good sense to tape it, what the Labrano’s forgot was they invented dirty tricks, and the Conservatives are not that slow in learning so they only covered their butt, don’t tell my you wouldn’t have done the same thing, it’s not illegal, so what is your problem only to take up the cause of the Fascists in Ottawa? Convince me I am wrong. And please, facts not childish inuendo as your “cop out”>

  15. Oh, and expect the CBC/CTV cheerleaders to swing right into action to support the chicanery.

  16. Settle down, David.
    Let the matter run its course before you go all wobbly on us. And try to stop allowing the relentless dark forces of media negativity to overcome you.

  17. The comments added are no worse than others that have already been published, where he asks about the senate, etc.

  18. clear is clear, rob.
    That underground lab is below that university in Alberta, U of Clagray, which has announced a breakthrough something about molecules/transistor, etc.
    Maybe it’s below that company too which makes/sells video games…. hot stuff for gamers. Where is that name?
    The Librano$ KGB/Stasi is taping this as I spe

  19. Do any of you remember the very reason Grewal taped these discussions?
    Because when Inky Mark said the same thing happened to him his word was not good enough. HE was branded a liar and defamed by the Liberals AND the media. The media was howling for “proof”. If you can’t prove it you, Inky, are a liar and Reg Alcock actually called him a liar.
    So, Grewal got a call from the Liberal “third party” Kallia. Do you think he would be believed? So, my understanding is that he taped the conversations for proof because the media prefer to brand Conservatives liars.
    Grewal did not tape this to release the whole thing to the media or the RCMP or the Ethics commissioner. He taped it to back up his story and the 8 minutes was enough.
    It was the media and THEN even Paul Martin in the house who demanded that Grewal release ALL of the tapes.
    So he did.
    And here we are….the media with the smoking gun right in front of them and who do they attack and defame – Grewal.
    sigh

  20. As a member of CPC, I am in agreement with sick of the cons that if the tapes were doctored Grewal et al should resign.
    Where we likely disagree is that if lying and destroying reputations were his/her criteria for resignation PMPM, Volpe, UD ad nauseum should have resigned weeks &/or months ago.
    He/She may want to read Bruce Garvey in todays(thurs) Post. Where is the honour in public service, whereby resignations and firings were the responsibility of the “Prime” Minister

  21. Watching the CBC National tonight almost knocked me out of my chair. Eight and a half minutes of Carla Homolka coverage to open, and then they finally got around to those incriminating tapes. Here’s Mansbridge’s opening gambit: “Well, they say the camera never lies; how about a tape recorder? The conservatives say tapes of conversations between MP Gurmant Grewal and influential LIberals proves the governement was trying to entice their party members to cross the floor. Tonight, an independent sound engineer is raising doubts about those tapes…”
    An independent sound engineer who happened to be “..hired by CBC to listen..” They show a guy with headphones, analyzing the sounds. “Right there, that’s a very suspicious sound..” – right at this moment, a photo of Gurmant Grewal slides down onto the screen.
    Eric Sorensen says “…other audio experts also say the tapes appear to have been altered. Udal Dosanjh had been making that very claim, and now says the conservatives have some explaining to do”. Yes, Dosanjh, agressive at a press-conference style mic: “What did they do for 14 days? Who heard the tapes? Who had posession of the tapes? Why did they not ask Mr. Grewal some hard questions?”
    What a revolting group of people, the CBC and the Liberals combined. Are they making the claim that it is not the voice of Dosanjh and Murphy on the tape? Or that editing could change the context so drastically as to change the meaning of their words which were caught on tape?
    Suppose for the sake of argument Grewal removed all parts of the tape which would make him culpable of even worse things than what Dosanjh and Murphy did. How would such wrongful actions of a back-back bench MP be equivalent in any way to vote buying by a minority government?
    To close the segment Sorensen says “John Door…says he wouldn’t want to defend these tapes as pristine..” Mansbridge: “So that’s the buzz about the tapes in Ottawa.
    Yeah, I guess Ottawa is the Liberals and the CBC.
    Absolutely shameless. Revolting. I am absolutely disgusted. It is nothing but Liberal propaganda.
    Something’s got to give here.

  22. maz2, shhhhhh,
    That molecules/transistor is so the can install a tape recorder on that laser mounted Fly Kate had on a few months ago.
    Increase in Librano university funding. Everyone is to carry tape recorders, mandatory equipment. Conspirators against the state will be minimized.

  23. While I don’t agree with sick of the Cons, I think David Gibson is right.
    Wake up.
    Team Harper screwed up here. Dosanjh said Wednesday the tapes were spliced and he gave the exact time on the tapes. They had 24 hours to listen to this and what did they do? They stood behind the tapes all efffing all day even though anyone who went to where Dosanjh said they were spliced would know there were clear problems there.
    Is this a red herring? Yes.
    Does this change the essential gist of the tapes? No.
    Does this make Harper’s people look bad? Very much.

  24. Clear
    This is not Liberal spin. It’s a legitimate story. The CPC waited two weeks without explanation to release the tapes when releasing all the tapes prior to the vote may have convinced Cadman or a LPC backbencher to support non-confidence. I don’t believe the tapes have been “doctored”. But what excuse is there for taking two weeks to translate and transcribe and then release tapes with with amateurish malfunctions that give the PMO an obvious way to change the channel. It’s a Bill Buckner move. Especially when everyone laughed at Dosanjh when he suggested the tapes were altered.
    Anyone who is unprepared to admit this is intellectually dishonest. Refusing to acknowledge your party’s shortcomings for fear of providing comfort to your political opponents is no more attractive in Conservatives than it is in Liberals.

  25. David it is NOT a legitimate story. It’s a legitimate sidebar. If I filmed someone robbing a bank, and caught them dead to rights on tape, in what paralell universe could my edits make me in any way equally culpable to the robber?
    Have you heard the tapes of Dosanjh and Murphy? How can you call this a legitimate story, when it’s being used as a smokescreen by a Liberal propaganda machine?
    It is not intellectually dishonest to say that the speculation about tape edits is trivial compared to the issue of what is KNOWN to be on the tape. Would any edited-out bits change what is known about the conversations in a way which would reduce the culpability of the PMO? Please explain.

  26. Kate: I assume that’s a CPC press release. Is that what it is? Is that the only place it’s been released?

  27. David:
    You had to bring up Bill Buckner. A lifelong Red Sox fan, that night used to bring me nightmares. But no more, the curse is over.
    I agree that there is clearly something there regarding the habdling of the tapes. The immediate lack of support from th erest of caucus is somewhat disturbing. That being said, clips edited and/or removed does not change the fact that it took more than 4 hours for the PM’s Chief of Sataff and a Cabinet Minister to “never actually tell GG to ” Get the Hell out of my office”

  28. They were getting the tapes transcribed and waiting to set a trap for Martin on Tuesday in question period which they did quite effectively. The “doctored” tapes is a red herring to discredit Grewal and the CBC and CTV lapdogs are eating it up. Inky Mark does not have proof and they call him a liar and “low in the gene pool”. Grewal has proof and they discredit the proof. What can a person do?

  29. Let’s play this forward…assume that Dosanj, Murphy and Grewal are charged under the Criminal Code.
    Grewal’s ‘worst-case defence’ is as follows: “I wished to move to the Liberals for reasons of principle. After I approached them, I changed my mind. But they wouldn’t leave me alone; they insisted that I meet to discuss how I might serve my country. I concluded that they were untrustworthy and that I should stay with the Tories. It was never about selling my vote.”
    In short, there exists no proof beyond a reasonable doubt, because any testimony to the contrary would necessarily have to come from the other two accused. The so-called intermediary’s testimony could simply not impeach a claim by Grewal that he later changed his mind about crossing the floor; he is stuck in time at the beginning of the negotiations.
    So, Grewal would walk.
    Meantime, here is the best defence for Murphy and Dosanj….
    Exactly, you wouldn’t want to take them on as clients. There is no way for them to undo their words on the tape, other than to do what they are now trying to do. That is, they are creating a diversion by claiming that pieces of tape have been cut out that would change the meaning of what we have heard them say. Problem is, even I cannot muster a compelling defence that would permit me to re-characterize the words now available to us. What has been cut out only speaks to Grewal’s guilt, not their innocence.
    Quite simply, if Martin was smart, he would cut Murphy and Dosanj off immediately. Otherwise, the price of his loyalty risks turning him into an accessory after the fact.

  30. Speaking of accessories after the fact, the current management at CBC cannot survive much longer. I hope that anyone reading this watches tonight’s National, if you can maybe get it on another feed. It was really, really over the top, just a pure shameless cover-up for the Liberals, a deflection of serious malfeasance through a tactic of distraction.
    It’s never been worse. It’s like living in the former Soviet Union. Disgraceful.

  31. Why didn’t the CBC hire anyone to investigate those “forged” documents involving Chretien and the Grand Mere affair ? Oh right, that involved the Liberals, move along, nothing tto see here.
    Also, whatever became of Andrew McIntosh ?

  32. It wouldn’t be a story if the CPC had said we’re checking out if there are problems with the tape once Dosanjh said there were problems.
    Instead they had to be dragged kicking and screaming to admit it all the while accusing Dosanjh of wearing a tinfoil hat.
    Also, if you listen to Eric Sorenson’s story he says that doesn’t mean that the edits exonerates the Liberals on parts of the tape that are clear. But he does say, saying the tapes are pristine — which MacKay did — is wrong. Which it is. Which is why the the CPC had to admit there were portions missing.

  33. Now somehow it has to be a virgin, the tape, or else it’s not pristine, it’s not pure, it’s not unadulterated, and so on. Well how about what IS on the tape? That’s the only reason that it made the news in the first place. If they had been chatting about bass fishing we wouldn’t be getting all exercised here.
    Murphy and Dosanjh are caught out on tape. The missing portions are a big stinky red herring and I can’t believe that people are falling for it.
    Can ANYBODY here who thinks that the missing parts are an issue tell me how those parts could possibly effect or change the things that Murphy and Dosanjh are saying on the tape? I just don’t get it.

  34. It is possible for the tapes to be pristine, and copies of the tapes to be compromised.
    As it has been reported that the originals are with the RCMP, I doubt the CBC or anyone else was using them.

  35. Why oh why oh why will “main” talk to Inky about his story. What? He has no credibility? I guess He’s not “High” enough in the gene pool? Is Grewal? Speaking of high, has anyone actually LISTENED to joe volope talk?

  36. It is no longer speculation that the tapes have been edited. The CPC has acknowledged it in the press release, that is the point of this thread. I’m inclined to believe that the edit was accidental as the press release alledges. That is now beside the point. Everyone in here accepts that the MSM will come to the Libs rescue that requires the CPC to be exceptional, on this file they have been incompetent.
    Rage against the unfairness of it all if you wish but many people open to persuasion are already convinced that it is time for the Libs to go but the CPC amateur hour handling of this file does nothing to encourage them that there is a government in waiting.

  37. Noun 1. accessory after the fact – a person who gives assistance or comfort to someone known to be a felon or known to be sought in connection with the commission of a felony.
    accessary, accessory – someone who helps another person commit a crime.
    Freedictionary.com

  38. Give me incompetence over sleaze any day. The Libs no doubt would have a sleaze machine well-oiled and ready to go. The (new) Conservatives aren’t used to doing the dirty and their inexperience shows. Thank God.

  39. All that matters is the RCMP have the entire tapes – the originals and the Liberals, the media, everyone shold have just chilled – all of this speculation and finger pointing to muddy the waters. It’s like the Liberals and Gomery – they already know they will be pronounced not guilty.
    This is Liberal slick-talk like Scott reid today on Politics with Newman.
    The bottom line is this : even the first 8 minutes that Grewal played just proved his story. That is all he wanted to do. This was not a Conservative Party action – it was one MP who was tired of CPC members being called liars.
    Remember, the talks with Grewal started before Belinda crossed. Those two votes had the Liberals salivating – that is why I’m guessing he was targeted and pursued.
    It is the Bloc and NDP who wanted further investigations. Then, it was the Liberals and Paul Martin and the Liberal media who were screaming for all of the tapes.
    They should be careful what they ask for.
    Otherwise those 8 minutes would have been enough just to prove Grewals’s story that the Libs were putting off a confidence vote because they were trolling for votes.
    That is all he wanted to prove – they contacted me- tried to bribe me – I said no – they will do anything not to have to face the voting public.
    Period.

  40. Let me begin by saying the edits do not change the worst parts of the tape and etc etc etc
    But those saying this is not news, are wrong.
    Explosive tapes are withheld for 2 weeks.
    Cabinet minister questions why explosive tapes are being withheld
    Explosive tapes are released
    Cabinet Minister says parts were doctored
    Government in waiting calls him a wacko
    Right wing talk show host discovers cabinet minister may be right
    Cabinet Minister says that’s why Government in Waiting held on to tapes for 2 weeks
    Government in waiting says nothing wrong with tape
    Government in waiting call cabinet minister a wacko some more
    Government in waiting says tapes are pristine
    Say cabinet minister is wearing a tinfoil hat
    Experts say something wrong with parts of tape
    Bloggers call experts bought and paid for
    CPC issues press release saying Ya there were problems.

  41. Choo Choo man – remember – Grewal did not tape this to release all of the tapes in the first place.
    He just wanted to back up his story that they were trolling for his votes.
    It was everyone else who began to scream for the release. Remember too that the house was not sitting last week. That is why they were not released . And, then they were only released after Paul Martin demanded in Question Period to release them.
    He called their bluff – and got what he asked for.
    Now, if the Liberals had done this taping who can give a scernario of how they would have handled it.
    (hint: they seem to have some sway over the Ethics Commish and the high level RCMP)

  42. Regarding media savvy-ness:
    The Conservatives have made their share of media-mistakes, I’ll admit that. And I definitely concur in the beginning the Reform Party was a little lacking PR skills. But whatever, one thinks of Harper, he IS media savvy. He knows what he’s doing. So does Peter MacKay. Take a look at the broken-hearted farm boy in his galoshes (no less!) after the Belinda Bombshell and tell me he’s not media savvy.
    But the conservative mistakes get blown so far out of proportion that the media makes a mole hill look like a mountain. It’s nuts
    The Liberals on the other hand are a PR person’s worst nightmare. Seriously. And they are getting worse. They are getting sloppy, lazy and losing their restraint on their contempt for this country and its citizens. It’s seaping out all over the place. They are getting bolder, pushing the line further and further.
    The only reason their butts haven’t been filleted by the media, is because the media refuse to touch the Liberals. Always have. I would dare to add, that few in the media have the balls to ask the tough questions that need asking in this country. The Liberal spin machine is only infallable because the media wants it to be, not because they know what they are doing.
    Personally, I think the missing portions of the tapes are nothing. The Prime Minister’s (the big kahuna, the top dog, the big boss himself, the chief political officer of this country) chief banana is heard on tape playing let’s make a deal with OUR democracy and all the while striking a fairly flippant tone about it. There is nothing on any altered tape that could make that go away.
    And the reason PMPM won’t fire Murphy or Dosanjh is because that would be admitting they had done something wrong. PMPM has learned Chretien’s Politics 101: Never admit anything. Never apologize for anything. Never back down. Ever.
    The only way to get rid of this creepy crew is to overthrow the government. To wait for PMPM to grow a conscience and fire Murphy or Dosanjh would take a miracle.

  43. Allison,
    CPC handled this well up until they started saying Dosanjh was crazy for saying there were problems with the tape even though he told them where the problems were.
    So instead of correcting it, they spent their time calling Dosanjh crazy and had to wait for the media to hire experts to prove them wrong.
    They looked like the Liberals denying the truth or, even worse, Dan Rather standing behind the story.

  44. Choo Choo Man: Let’s assume, and it probably is true,that the tapes were edited, and altered, and held for two weeks; experts find that there is something wrong with parts of the tape, and the conservatives admit, much too late,that yes,there were problems.
    What could possibly be on the missing sections which could legitimately usurp in the national media the serious, serious implications against Tim Murphy and Ujal Dosanjh? This is not a rhetorical question.

  45. Another really ugly side to this is CTV’s reporting that they were told an RCMP investigation was under way, but got a call from the Lib’s communication folks who told them to call a top-ranking RCMP guy who told them (CTV) that no, there was no investigation under way. Peter MacKay picked up on it and says it amounts to tampering within the highest echelons of the RCMP. Wonder why Nina Grewal is remaining silent?

  46. I was disappointed in the lack of an agenda by the CPC. The Harper Grewal fraud is the last straw. I have torn up my CPC card

  47. Dresen: “What could possibly be on the missing sections which could legitimately usurp in the national media the serious, serious implications against Tim Murphy and Ujal Dosanjh? This is not a rhetorical question.”
    Nothing.
    There we agree.
    But that doesn’t mean that what happened today is not news.
    I believe you’re suspcious that this tape problem is going to give the media an out to ignore everything else on the tape. I know some people, like Newman and Duffy, appear to be making excuses for Murphy and using the “it’s all part of the horse trading that goes down on Parliament Hill” talk.
    I am sure that you and I both hope you’re wrong on that prediction.

  48. It’s going to take alot more than just earnestness on the part of the Conservatives to bring down the Liberals et el. This latest incident does reveal that the team is lacking critical traits necesessary to bring down a government entrenched in corruption.
    Iron Lady, is it an either/or option? Sleaze vs. incompetence?

  49. The tapes analyzed were copies. Nuff said – they don’t prove sh%! except that whoever copied them made a mistake. The originals are in the hands of the RCMP. You don’t think they’ll run their own tests? You don’t think that the so called “doctorers” would have thought of this. This defence by the Liberals does not pass the laugh test.

  50. According the the news release on Kate’s site on the technical glitch caused when the tapes were being dubbed to CD’s says” when questions were raised TODAy about the completeness….we immediately investigated what may have occured.
    Today- immediately – and it is on CD copies – not the originals which are now with the RCMP.
    Mountain? Molehill? Liberal smoke and mirrors? Media clutching at straws, anything, to cover this up?
    Like all of the in depth stories these days on Grewal. Sickening…to the point of slanderous.
    How about a little indepth on Murphy? Our Health Minister? We need to know more about these two people who have power over us and our money.

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