Who can inform this journalist that “freedom of the press” is one thing – unnecessary provocation is another.
Got what she deserved, no question.
Who can inform this journalist that “freedom of the press” is one thing – unnecessary provocation is another.
Got what she deserved, no question.
Kate,
That’s going a bit far with the ironic humor. No “gets what they deserve” when they are threatened with death by islamicfacscopigs.
Now if they threaten someone with death and they get a dose of .45’s from a Marine sidearm as a result–then THEY deserve it.
I was being sarcastic, obviously – and there’s a reason for that. When editors argue that publishing cartoons is too “provocative”, then they are sending a message that a violent response is not only possible, but justified.
Stockwell Day just announced in media that the REAL costs of the gun registry are about to be released by the AG, that they are significantly higher than already reported and that people are going to be upset…
Sounds like a recipe for knocking the Emerson & Fortier matters off the front page, hopefully.
Turkey is thought of as being more tolerant. so much so that *some* in the EU would like to have them as a member country, sort of a window to the east… ufff.
What luck, to think that these people may soon have passport and visa free access to Europe. The right to work, the right to school, the right to tell Austrian women to cover their heads… so they are not offended?
The Gun Registry scam is going to make Adscam look like an amateur hour in steal-from-the-government-department.
Wanna bet there wil be lots of Liberal friendly firms invoicing for no work, invoicing multiple times for the same work, getting preferential contract treatment.
gee I wonder if any technical subsidiary of Canada Steamship Lines might be involved ??
Dear Mr. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad,
I sincerely hope that when you die, God turns out to be a bitched out Shemale who looks just like Rosie O’Donell, and the Prophet is her Homosexual housekeeper… If there’s any justice in the Universe.
Lets hope the Gun Registry isn’t too bad on the expense side… it’s our money after all. $2 billion is hard enough to swallow.
that’s right Fred.
it doesn’t serve us to simply say, well it really cost the taxpayers “2.7x” or “3.2x”
I want to know, who was paid, and how much.
and how much found its way back to the liberal party.
“name the names”
Ha… wishful thinking on all our parts Marc.
Can you say “horsetrade”, cause that’s whats going to happen. Stephan Harper is going to be saying “I want this…” to Graham, and Graham is going to say “if you protect ‘place stooges name here'”.
We are never going to know the whole truth. All we will hear about is the cost. Harpers got himself a bag full of chips in the big game now, and he is one smart bastard who knows how to use them.
I can live with that if he does some good. Although I sincerely wish to see people fry over that registry.
All that money. Think of the good it could have done.
Politics.
Use all necessary force; yea, use overwhelming force. Let the hot steel fly. Down with Islamist jihadists.
Defend freedom and democracy. Carry the battle to the enemy!
Long live freedom and democracy! +
Outgoing commander: More bullets will fly
KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (CP) – Canadian soldiers fired their first hostile shots this week in an aggressive new mission in southern Afghanistan, and the contingent’s outgoing commander says more bullets are sure to fly with deadly force. >>>
via cnews
Can anyone out there cite an example of Msulim/Arab violence that has not been justified by the media. Bonus if there’s one that they actually condemned. I have been trying but cannot think of a single one.
Everyone seems to toss around the number 2 billion without realizing how much it really is.
Example 1 billion minutes ago would take you back to the time of Christ. Two billion minutes ago we could have been watching them build the pyramids.
My calculations may be a bit off, but I think you get the point. 2 billion dollars is one hell of a lot of money almost unimaginable. The average person could never spend it in a lifetime.
Anne McLennan is not an average person, thankfully.
Kate might have been joking, but the fact is that the reporter did provoke that response. She was disturbing the peace. If a woman’s uncovered head is offensive to Muslims, why would she parade around that way? Is that not the definition of provocation — to do something that offends someone when you know that it will offend them?
I’m sick of you right-wing idiots who have no respect for the fact that we live in a big world, with lots of different people. Show some respect for others for a change, and quit being such cretins.
Geee, excellent point, Libby Raoul…
I guess calling people you’ve never even met (and know absolutely nothing about) “idiots” and “cretins” is a terrific example of “showing respect for others”…
“Outgoing commander: More bullets will fly”
Say maz2, does Canada’s defence budget allow for bullets to be actually used or are they expected to Barney Fife them?
And about the Turkish reporter, it is one of those right in principal things. If you know these wingnuts get all hot and bothered by a bare female head then tell her to cover up while reporting it. Report the news not become the news. Kind of like sending a black reported to cover a KKKlan convention, it’s all about common sense.
First the AG reports on the gun registry. Get that one out of the way and then move on to reloscam. That’s the baby that’s going to raise a lot of eyebrows!
The post is sublime. In the end, it’s never really been about the cartoons.
Texas, your remark re headcovering might- might- be applicable elsewhere, but not in Turkey. That kind of religious expression has frowned on for decades. The election of religious candidates depended a whole lot on non headcovering segments of society.
That said, there really is no ‘moderate’ Islam.
Libby Raoul: “If a woman’s uncovered head is offensive to Muslims, why would she parade around that way?”
Because that’s the LAW in Turkey. Women are not required to cover their heads, and are actually forbidden to cover them in certain venues. Before you vent your ignorance, check your facts. And your name-calling on top of your silly statement just removed any credibility that you might have had.
Bruce: Where’d you see that media release by Stockwell? Cant find it anywhere…
On a related note, the Iranian confectioners’ union, as retaliation for the cartoons, has ordered that all stores change the name of a popular pastrie from “Danish” to “Roses of the Prophet Muhammad”.
I can see it now…”Would you like a coffee with your Prune Rose of the Prophet Muhammad”? “And how about you, sir, yes you, with the Strawberry Rose of the Prophet Muhammad…some butter with that?”.
So apparently it is not OK to draw a cartoon in the image of the prophet, but you can eat him with a beverage…strange…
Dude:
It’s been running on the radio news hourly in Vancouver for the last couple of hours, haven’t seen written accounts yet…last report had Day saying that the public “will be shocked” when the numbers are released
This is a link with some gun geistry news:
http://news.google.ca/url?sa=t&ct=ca/0-0&fp=43f59c48706f41e2&ei=_Q31Q4LIEsGOFvvClc8N&url=http%3A//cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/02/16/1446911-cp.html&cid=0
I think there have been a lot of valid points, however the bottom line is (I think) when in Rome… I would have thought a Turkish journalist might know better. I am guessing she won’t do it again.
Largs — Thank you for dumbing this down for me. UGGGHHHH. Forget jail time, I am all for the public stoning of those bastards.
Day was on Rutherford this a.m., and made some stmts re the registry. When will cdns and other western governments and media outlets make the decision that they will no longer let muslims and islam rule our way of life. Ezra should get copies of all cartoons etc published in muslim papers in the past several years to use in his defense, and publish them. Time for political correctness to go the way of the dodo and call these idiots what they are. Very unreligious people who will use any reason to kill. Tell those so called leaders in Calgary, when in rome do as the romans do, and quit using your hate as a religion, or go back to whereever you come from. Wonder how many of them are legal immigrants, and not terrorists in waiting. Once you see the cartoons, you will see how inoffensive they are. That is why islamofists don’t want you to see them, to see how stupid they were to riot and kill, for nothing but sheer love of killing.
I think I now understand how the Romans must have felt with the “barbarians at the gates.”
I guess talking to the Turks about the Armenian genocide that they did is so much not to be done as protesting a bunch of comics is so much fun and stonings too. Turkey should be brought to world Court for allowing stoning tohave happened.I’m -sure Canadian Mohammadans will protest the stoning
The reporter should know better. When in Rome…
I may be way out to lunch here but it seems to me that we are witnessing the prelude to a very large military or terrorist action in Europe. If we think back a few months to what happened in France. The younger, poor, immigrant (mostly Moslim) population in France went on a rampage that lasted for a week or two. Every night they rioted and burnt and destroyed property. I remember thinking at the time that this seemed far more coordinated than the government or the press was giving credit for. It seems to me that if someone was planning something on a large scale, then it would be prudent to try it on a smaller scale first. The rioting youth of France may have been just the first act in checking out how many responding numbers of police and security there would be for some future action. Perhaps a test to see how the government would react and how far they could be pushed before bringing out the military or calling for martial law.
What we are seeing in Europe and in parts of Asia is perhaps ‘Act 2’ of a similar ‘feeling out’ of Europe to find out about crowd control and security. It is no secret that these cartoons ran before, last fall in Egypt, and generated no violent response… so why now? There again, seems to be a lot of coordination in these events, bringing out the masses in large numbers from country to country day after day.
Call me a conspiracy monger but I think we are seeing the genesis of a much larger and more terrible plan that we are ready to concede or admit. Radical Facsist clerics are ultimately planning towards a world conquest for Islam. If politicians and governments around the world do not wake up to this fact as the Australians have, it will be for burkas all the ladies and three times a day towards Mecca for the men.
Freedom is a precious thing and the war for ‘hearts and minds’ that has been spoken about is an important one if these freedoms that we enjoy and treasure are going to continue to be handed down to the next generation.
Some time ago, I remember reading a book and the author compared our world view to one of those pictures where you strain your eyes to see “the donkey, the cart and the boy”. Once you see it you lose sight of the rest of the picture and all you can see is the “donkey, the cart and the boy”. So far most of the world is not seeing “the donkey, the cart or the boy” Hopefully they will in time.
There may be people who may laugh at this scenario but there were those who laughed at Hitler and wrote him off as well. We all remember what happened next. Hitler went out and tried to overwhelm with military might. What we are seeing is much more subtle and insidious than that but the goals are the same. Subjigation and control, with world conquest as the end goal.
Are all Muslims involved? Of course not. It is a very small but vocal segment of Islam that is perverting true Islam in an attempt to dominate all others within the faith. I am waiting to hear from those peace loving Muslims who are not in agrrement with those who are trying to impose Shiah law on all of Islam. It is time to speak up and let your voice be heard if you love freedom.
Sorry for the length
Maranatha
Mark,
I have been informed by various Islamic groups they will (regretfully) be unable to protest the stoning as they have Embassies to burn.
Libby- You wouldn’t happen to be a right winger playing dress up would you? If so I advise that you put away the dress and step away from the keyboard.
Largs “Everyone seems to toss around the number 2 billion without realizing how much it really is.”
None of us do. The human mind can only deal with such numbers as abstractions.
Mark “I guess talking to the Turks about the Armenian genocide that they did is so much not to be done as protesting a bunch of comics is so much fun and stonings too.”
Orhan Pamuk arguable Turkey’s greatest living writer has spoken out against the Armenian genocide. Such speech is against the law in Turkey but EU pressure has kept him out of jail.
Ironicaly enough that same author has written a very timely novel titled My Name Is Red. It revolves around a 16th century illustrator who lands in hot water over depicting the prophet. I just got my hands on a copy and its been an excellent read so far.
“Turkey should be brought to world Court for allowing stoning tohave happened”
Have you seen the size of the world court? You’ll never fit Turkey in there.
“It is a very small but vocal segment of Islam that is perverting true Islam in an attempt to dominate all others within the faith.”
From what I’ve read the perverts are practising ‘true Islam’ and the moderates are the ones who tweak the perception of Islam into one of love and peace.
Allah, paradise and the virgins are a fantasy and Mohammed was nothing but a common thief and rapist (although one with some forthought). Islam is a very dangerous entity and should be eliminated from the entire western world.
2 billion Moslems, thats about 10 bullets each.
Maranatha: moderate Islamics may be fewer than we think. Moderate Shias, Sunni, Druze, ???
I’ve been wondering to what all this is a prelude, terrorist attacks, or just testing our limits. Unfortunately, when it comes to chickenshit acquiesence, European and North American MSM, and governments, seem to have no limits.What was the old Liberal creed,” if they vote Liberal, they’re excused”? An example of the cowardly acquiesence I’m speaking of:
Several years ago, in Montreal, an Islamic gentleman was hauled into court for anally raping his eight year old daughter repeatedly over a period of time. The judge, a woman, let him off with an outrageously light sentence, due to “cultural differences”. She remarked that “after all the child is still technically a virgin”. I wish I was making this up. Everyone, it seems, is afraid to stand up to these heroes of Allah. Wonder what’s next.
I wouldn’t worry too much about Muslim Fanatics. They are going to push the wrong button just once, and blam!
I predict the moment the Israeli’s find out Iran has enriched uranium, they’ll nuke Iran.
People say that will be the start of the next big war…
somehow I don’t think Israel, a country capable of taking on any 3 of it’s neighbors at the same time, is going to waste alot of time wasting Arabs.
I think they’ll blow the shit out of them PDQ. A nice fast dirty war.
Sooner or later some nation is going to say screw the optics and fuck the arabs… just a matter of time.
…Kate might have been joking, but the fact is that the reporter did provoke that response….
Sort of like when a woman would get raped, and the judge would decide to let the rapist go free, because it was obvious that the woman was clearly “asking for it” because of what she was wearing.
JM:……….Yup…stupids is…….
John N, Bruce, and C.J.:
Good ones!
Brian M and dmorris:
You could well be right, particularly in the Arab nations, there may be more extreme radical Muslims and they may be in a majority, I don’t know. As for it being a very dangerous entity, there certainly are dangerous elements within the faith, which certainly lends credibility to your statement. I am not sure if this holds true throughout Islam however. It seems that the extreme radical leaders are bent on whipping up the masses into a frenzy so that they will do whatever they are told “is the will of Allah”… whether they are moderates or zealots that they are talking to. There is nothing that an ideology likes better than to have as its constituency those who will do what they are told without question or thought.
The present circumstance is a very serious threat as it has the potential to destabilize all of Europe and Asia and by extension, perhaps the world.
I wish that people would get rid of the rhetoric as it is not helpful. Staetments like ‘Nuke ’em all’ are not helpful or productive as it only tends to cloud the issues and inflame the situation even further.
As I said before… “where are the voices of the moderate, peace-loving muslims” we keep hearing about, as all of this is going on. As many have already said, these caricatures are not particularly offensive compared to much of the material that is out there that takes aim at Christians, Jews, gays, ethnic nationals etc. Are there no voices of calm or reason in the Muslim community? If there are not, then we are in bigger trouble sooner rather than later.
As for the MSM it is about time they stopped navel gazing or waiting for the next tidbit. It is about time for those with some moral backbone and jounalistic integrity, and there are some, to begin to take back their profession and do what is required to report the news. Some seem to want to “be” the news. Others seem to want to be spoonfed the next helping of news so they can in turn regurgitate it. What happenned to investigative jounalism and independent thought? Is is too much to ask for editors with the courage to leave what is “newsworthy” in the article instead of on the cutting room floor because they have been cowed or intimidated by the powers that be. Perhaps they are afraid that the next helping may not be forthcoming if they pass along something with some substance to it.
I am thankful for the blogging community and people like Kate who have the integrity to say what they mean and mean what they say!
There are no doubt some interesting days ahead.
Maranatha
The funny part is that you people are too chicken to face a muslim or an arab…And i am sure that most of you have never seen a muslim or even open a conversation with them..Ignorant is what i call you..Stupid is what i describe you..You people have nothing better than disrespecting muslims and their beliefs..But let me tell you something..Life is short! You will die but struggle will never end..Muslims don’t give up for their rights..And they are taught to fight until the end..Life is too short for us “Muslims” to get bothered by ignorant people…It’s easy for you to say that muslims and arabs are terrorits since you live in a country that provides you with everything except the truth..I find it funny how in school, or in public they teach us and talk about respect, honesty, courtesy, trust , freedom, rights and all this bull shit…None of these are used..Why don’t you guys travel in the middle East and see for yourslef how muslims and arabs are treated ! It’s funny how, when people try to protect themselves “Americans” call them terrorists! Why would a muslim, or arab allow anyone to steal their lands ? Why should any arab or muslim allow anyone to disrespect their beliefs, including their Holly Book? The west steals their lands, kill their people, disrespect their beliefs and their cultures, and you dare call them terrorists? What type of creatures are you? Why don’t you put yourself in their shoes ! Imagine your house being bombarded, imagine your parents or kids being killed, imagine your country being occupied, and most importantly, imagine your religion being insulted. Why don’t you guys take a change to read the Qoran and understand it and see what Islam is all about…Muslims are not terrorists! They are fighting for their rights and freedom..They are fighting for peace and respect!
Norma: Yada, yada, yada.
Several of my best friends are refugees from this religion of peace. Need I say that they are Christian Arabs? They were attacked without mercy and driven from their homeland. I’ve worked with members of every major religious faith, and gotten on well with them, and discussed their religions with them, as well. And the Muslims stand out in my mind because of their intolerant attitudes.
All over the Mideast, these ‘peaceloving’ people are butchering Christians, Hindus, Bhuddists, and each other.
How is the West to blame when Shias and Sunnis butcher each other? How is the West to blame for masked Muslims cutting off the heads of Christian Indonesian girls walking to school? How is the West to blame when Muslim mobs set fire to places of worship of other faiths, slit the throats of pastors, machinegun congregations at worship, or assasinate tourists?
Muslims waste too much of their time making stupid excuses for their unacceptable behaviour. When/if they mature enough to *own their faults* and deal with them, dialogue can begin. While some ass is waving an AK and screeching into your face, it’s kind of hard to engage in a discussion.
The biggest enemies of the Muslims are…other Muslims. Wake up and smell the hummis.
However misrepresented we are by our Western ‘leaders’, there are those of us as dedicated to our faiths and way of life as any Muslim.
You don’t hear much about us because we’re an embarassment to the MSM and our spineless ‘leaders’. But we’re here all the same, and if you Muslims don’t sit back and have a good hard think, one of these days your people are going to get to meet us in person, and you…won’t…like…it!
For the rest of you on the list who want to get a whiff of the bogus “prophet’s” followers, try this url: http://www.persecution.com/
Norma – what a lovely name!
When I click on it, tho’, it is linked to http://www.intifada.com – intifada in Palestine.
Now, why weren’t you honest about who you are so there could be some meaningful dialogue with you?
Norma: I knew and worked with several members of the Ismaili Islamic community in Vancouver back in the 90’s.
They were what anyone would consider moderate, and did not support extremist activities. I’ve read the koran, and discussed it with Islamic persons. The people who crash planes into buildings, murder innocent people, and burn embassies are not worthy of the designation “defenders of the faith”. They are fanatical, murderous criminals, and they defame Islam. As for exploitation of Muslims by Jews, infidels, etc., if you look into the history of any race or religion, you will find injustices perpetrated by stronger parties. That’s human nature. Burning, looting, killing, over some absurdly tame cartoons is not the act of civilized people confident in their beliefs. Were we infidels to act in the same manner, you’d have your war to end all wars. Then we could all live happily ever after in the ashes.
Actually, Norma, I have travelled extensively throughout the world, including quite a number of countries in the middle-east as well as several “muslim” countries in SE Asia…
And my impression is this…what a great population of wonderful people,except for the the fact that in that population there are numerous imams who prey upon unwashed, uneducated,uncivilized, barbaric fanatics who are easily led to engage in outrageous attacks on civilized institutions…
If you wish to clean up your image…clean up your presentation…
Kate
You need to drop this Muslim thing. You are showing your true Prarie red neck WASP approach to life. You are in the minority on this one. Chill out for the weekend at the spa in Moose Jaw or come on up to Saskatoon and we can compare bull testicle notes.
John: people tend to overlook a religion and a group of people..:)..if one muslim happen to be a criminal, people judge all muslims as criminals…I am a muslim and i am not a terrorist ! I am a muslim and i am not a criminal ! Muslims and arabs are not MY people …There are different types of muslims..there are different countries in the arab nation..I don’t believe that Oussama BinLaden is any close of being a true muslim..But what i know is that the USA made him..The USA made Saddam Hussein..and now the USA call them terrorists…If Oussama and his men, or Saddam and his men are causing struggle all over the world, how is it muslims faults? I am a victim of their actions as much as you are…And for the record, Arabs or muslims would take care of their own problems when Bush and his puppies keep their noses out of the middle east’s business…
Gellen: I didn’t include the intifada’s link to describe who i was..i posted that link for you to look at those innocent children images..In addition to that i didn’t lie about who I was..I am not scared to tell you who i am..I am Norma, an Arab (Lebanese), Muslim living in the USA…
dmorris: It’s rare finding people with your moral..you’re right, those people crashing planes and so on are not muslims..they are not practicing Islam..they are practicing their own belief…if everyone knew what islam really was there wouldn’t be all this miscommunication…Also, Freedom of the press allows these caricatures to be drawn however it doesn’t mean that they had the right to do it..These drawings were insulting..i felt insulted…Even if they had posted caricatures of Jesus i would have felt insulted too…But the point is with all this tension going on in the world right now about arabs, muslims and terrorism, i saw no need for these caricatures to be posted…They have provoked a reaction..People which drew and posted them wanted to be free, then they’ll have to deal with the consequences of their words and actions…
“the fact is that the reporter did provoke that response. She was disturbing the peace. Is that not the definition of provocation — to do something that offends someone when you know that it will offend them?
I’m sick of you right-wing idiots who have no respect for the fact that we live in a big world, with lots of different people. Show some respect for others for a change, and quit being such cretins.”
My question then, Libby Raoul is: if you are being true to your words, can I then assume you would support the cancellation of Toronto’s gay parade? It’s in the public streets and the participants know full well that many of the public find it highly offensive and provocative.
Or are you another liberal lefty who intellectually twists things to create a double standard? Just wondering.
mcdonald, nope, sorry bud, but I think you’re in the minority. Good grief man, do you really support the stoning of a woman because she didn’t have her head covered? Do you support riots because of some pretty harmless cartoons? Yes 1 or 2 of the cartoons were a bit offensive, but worthy of burning embassies and riots that killed people? Those aren’t the actions of “a small minority of radicals” as everyone likes to point out and apologize for. That was the arab street, the people.
Hey, even after the planes crashed into the buildings I wasn’t anti-muslim because that really was the work of a small bunch of nutjobs, but after watching muslims in other countries CELEBRATE that terrorism my mind started to change.
Must be nice living in a fantasy fairy land where everyone is nice, has lots to eat and give each other hugs every time they meet. This isn’t SmurfLand. This is reality. Get with the program buddy.
Norma,
Thanks for entering into a dialogue with us. I take exception to being called names though. I can’t see how it is helpful to be calling us “chicken, stupid, ignorant etc.”
You seem sure that we know nothing of your life and faith. It may surprise you to know that many of us have good friends who are Muslims. We have agreed to disagree on many things but we have respect for one another. Bitterness and hatred will only breed bitterness and hatred. Like begets like.
I find it rather odd that you would call values like “respect, honesty, courtesy, trust , freedom, rights”.. bullshit. Perhaps this is part of the problem. The things that we value the most are things that some are trampling under foot. Our forefather fought and shed blood in two world wars so that we might continue to enjoy these values instead of having to live in a repressive regime.
If you want to talk about those who have stolen your lands and kept you poor, you need not look any farther than the Sultans and Princes and dictators like Sadaam who have fattennd themselves on the childrens bread. You have all the opportunities and resources to make a better future for yourselves without the shedding of blood and the destruction of property.
I do not see all Muslims as terrorists but if you are honest you will agree that some are. Bin Laden and many who are following in his ways are set on death and destruction as a means to satisfy their own desires for power through fear and intimidation.
You said “Imagine your house being bombarded, imagine your parents or kids being killed, imagine your country being occupied, and most importantly, imagine your religion being insulted.” Many of us don’t have to imagine this. All we have to do is to look back at the events of September 11 2001 and what happened to the World Trade Centers and the Pentagon. Many parents were killed that day and many parents lost children that day!
If you wish to have a dialogue then at least be civil and honest in the attempt. You had mentioned in your post that we are taught everything but the “truth”. Enlighten me. What is the truth as you have been taught or as you see it.
Maranatha
Came across this quote at: http://egyptiansandmonkey.blogspot.com/
I think this sums it up very very well:
“Collective punishment is wrong. But only against us. If we decide to collectively punish you, then that’s ok because you all deserve it. But don’t you dare generalize all of us, no matter how much we generalize you. Oh and by the way, an attack on one Arab country is an attack on all Arab countries.. but please don’t assume that means an attack BY one Arab country means an attack by all Arab countries cause that would be a logical falacy. Somehow.
So remember:
Generalizations of us by you: Wrong
Generalizations of you by us: Right
And don’t you dare criticize our violence, cause then we’ll kill you, and that’ll just prove how peaceful we really are! Take that you american and zionist pig-dogs and your Democratically elected leaders that we hate and have caused the world to turn on you. But don’t you dare criticise *our* democratically elected terrorist organization, because they were elected, so you have to like them, no matter how much we hate your democratically elected leaders – it’s right to assume that the whole of America supported everything Bush stood for since as many as 50% voted for him, but it would be wrong to assume that every Palestinian supports everything Hamas stands for since only around 80% voted for them.”