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Until this moment I have been forced to listen while media and politicians alike have told me "what Canadians think". In all that time they never once asked.
This is just the voice of an ordinary Canadian yelling back at the radio -
"You don't speak for me."
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My wife’s 1st graders have all suffered greatly. And they are STILL required to wear masks … here in the SF Bay Area. Disgusting. BIPOC children esp. … set further behind. Many are already looking toward a George Floyd future.
Meanwhile … Gavin Newsom’s kids all had a mask-free PRIVATE school education.
Those charts is for effectiveness against infection.
That the vaccines are not particularly effective against infection by the omicron variant is old news. Where the vaccines are useful, however, is in reducing severe symptoms, and even more reducing hospitalizations, and even more avoiding intensive care, and even more avoiding death.
This suggests that vaccines should be taken by vulnerable people such as the elderly, but are of less use for healthy young people. Certainly mandates don’t make sense.
Can you prove any of that? I thought not. Those are claims about the vaccines (reduce severity, etc.), but even the original data on which those claims were based is highly suspect. The ” abdolute” effectiveness of the vaccines was only ever 1%. That does not stretch very far. And if course the claims take no more of the serious problematical side effects.
Here’s an earlier paper…
https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-health/how-we-know-covid-19-vaccines-work
“If we look at the four COVID-19 vaccines approved in Canada, their efficacy was shown to be much higher than anticipated. For Pfizer-BioNTech’s mRNA-based vaccine, its efficacy clocked in at 95%.”
And a recent one:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2117128
“All three Covid-19 vaccines had durable effectiveness in reducing the risks of hospitalization and death. Waning protection against infection over time was due to both declining immunity and the emergence of the delta variant.”
So you thought wrong.
Not good enough. The McGill article is mostly propaganda.
Do you know the difference between relative and absolute effectiveness? Very important.
Here is something informative for you to review: https://www.skirsch.com/covid/MoreHarm.pdf
According to the latest Pfrizer data dump (April 1), Pfizer had so many adverse events that had to hire 2400 new people to process them.
https://strangesounds.org/2022/04/just-to-let-you-know-that-pfizer-has-released-another-batch-of-documents-on-april-1-2022-here-they-are.html.
Yeah, nothing says safe and effective like 9 full pages of adverse side effects. And Pfizer was aware of it back in early 2021. Pages 30-38.
https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/5.3.6-postmarketing-experience.pdf
COVID vaccines have administered 11.5 billion times worldwide. Given that (1) all vaccines have occasional adverse effects, and (2) almost all adverse effects are temporary and not dangerous, how many adverse effects would you consider acceptable?
The Swine flu vaccine was pulled from the market after 3 people had adverse effects.
One problem seems to be that in every country with a significant vaccine ” roll- out”, the all cause death count seems to immediately go up. Know of any recent mysterious deaths.
Had nothing been done the damn flu would have vanished two months after March 2020.
And where do you get those statistics? I certainly can’t find them beyond parroted government statements. I can’t find anywhere in any place any proof of that statement. If you have it please share it.
Take a look at the two papers I cited above.
Yet the pharmaconglomerates are pushing yet another booster despite their earlier versions killing an unknown number of unsuspecting guinea pigs. Sounds like criminal negligence resulting in death charges should be pending, but of course too many politicians profited from the murders.
The scientific community has got a fair idea about the safety of these vaccines, as they are now among the most studied in history. And the conclusions are that the vaccines are pretty darn safe. Here’s some examples:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(22)00054-8/fulltext
https://hms.harvard.edu/news/covid-19-vaccine-safety
I know a lot of people trying to play up the dangers — easy to do in technically complex subjects — but their arguments don’t hold up to rigorous scrutiny.
“…most studied in history…”
Tell me more. Tell me about the 5+ year safety profile.
So you would have waited 5 years before releasing a COVID vaccine for general use, would you?
No but I would have given people the ability to turn it down if they wanted it instead of blithely assuring everyone it was safe and effective and if you don’t get it we’ll ban you from society, make you lose your ability to work and tell your family and friends who went along with the big lie to treat right like a contagious leper.
In other words I would have been fine with it if the government had offered it on the basis of informed consent instead of totally unethical coercion and enticement.
And then there’s this part “We aimed to describe US surveillance data collected through the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), a passive system, and v-safe, a new active system, during the first 6 months of the US COVID-19 vaccination programme.”
The under reporting rate has been estimated to be 40-70 times and then there’s the conversion of “vaccine associated respiratory syndrome” which would have been recorded as COVID in the unvaccinated.
“No but I would have given people the ability to turn it down”
So would I. Forcing people to get vaccinated is a violation of security the person as defined by section 7 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. At a minimum, the case for such mandates should have been argued before the Supreme Court.
I would not have done a huge push with mandates. It makes no sense, since these are not sterilizing vaccines. Vaccinated people continue to get and transmit the virus.
Yes, I would have.
The Lancet???? Hahahahaha.
You don’t like the Lancet? Fine. Cite your own research papers.
The problem with the Lancet is that they are hugely influenced by pharma money. Since Covid, this has become shockingly apparent. They have been caught several times.
Killer writes the usual claim.
“ Where the vaccines are useful, however, is in reducing severe symptoms, and even more reducing hospitalizations, and even more avoiding intensive care, and even more avoiding death”!
Really. Tell us how this is knowable?? You can not turn back the clock and take another path.
Regarding “safety”. If in my circle of friends and family I can count 15 people who are now suffering from adverse reactions, Some serious, and have been to ER’s several times, then something is horribly wrong.
Doctors quietly conceding it’s vax reactions but tremble in fear of making official reports.
“Tell us how this is knowable??”
They count the number of vaccinated versus unvaccinated people who are hospitalized due to COVID, or placed in ICU due to COVID, or die to COVID, and compare those numbers to number of vaccinated versus unvaccinated people in the population at large.
Let’s consider a specific age group — over 80 years of age, say — over a large population like an entire province.
If 90% of the over-80 population are vaccinated, but only 50% of over-80s who are in the ICU for COVID province wide are vaccinated, then you can estimate that being vaccinated reduces the odds of over-80s ending up in the ICU by about a factor of around 9.
Of course, you want to do some statistical analysis to estimate the uncertainty in that estimate, but that’s basically it.
Mr. Marmot. Have a look at the numbers in the UK. They now show higher RATES of hospitalization and deaths among the vaccinated. Check out Alex Berenson or Steve Kirsch’s sites on substack. Canada is now trending that way as well.
The vaccines are ruining the immune systems the poor sods who bought into the panic.
The evidence going the other way is overwhelming. And as I said elsewhere, it’s pretty easy for writers with an agenda to throw up smoke on a technically complex issue. Most people have a poor understanding of statistics, and can easily be misled. Alex Berenson is utterly shameless in misrepresenting the stats. Whether he’s doing so intentionally or from ineptness I don’t know.
Not a math wiz here, so please
Indulge me…
According to Ontario govs website:
Ontario has roughly 85% rate of vaccination in some form or other.
80% of hospitalizations are in vaccinated.
70% of ICU are vaccinated.
Obvioualy showing a difference..but, a great difference? And when infection rates are higher for vaccinated (and much higher for boosted), is the increased chance of getting infected worth the slightly smaller chance of hospitalization?
The term “effective” is subjective i guess?
“Obvioualy showing a difference..but, a great difference?”
It’s best if you separate things out by age bracket. As I said elsewhere, I think vaccines for the young are less valuable. Go to this site:
https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data
Go down to “Deaths involving COVID-19 by vaccination status”. Click on “60+”. Most COVID deaths are in this age group. Note that almost all deaths are “not fully vaccinated” (the green line), defined as not having two vaccinations. Eyeballing it, I’d say about 80% of the total deaths in this age group come from the not fully vaccinated.
But what percentage of all 60+ people in Ontario are not fully vaccinated? If you go further down, you’ll see that it’s less than 4%.
In other words, 80% of the deaths are coming from 4% of the population. This suggests that the vaccines are massively valuable in reducing deaths amongst the aged.
But that statistic is skewed is it not? By the size of the population. 3.5 million in 60+ category in ontario, of which only 2.5% are unvaccinted completely. I get that rates are typically a good indicator, but including alll “not fully vaccinated” which actually includes people who have received two shots seems misleading, and probably intentionally. You mention 80 percent of deaths on that group… And in unvaccinated (or not fully vaccinated) but since january 1, there have been roughly 2300 deaths in ontario… Youre saying you believe roughly 80percent of those deaths are coming from unvaccinated (not fully vaccinated?)…above 60? Seems excessive if 1700 deaths came from a population of 87500?? (The 2.5% of the aged above 60).
Damn.. now my head ia hurting…i knew i hated math
It’s skewed in the sense that we are only considering people in the 60+ age group. The results are far less dramatic for healthy young people, as they can more easily withstand the disease without help.
If we analyzed the entire population at once, without differentiating by age, it’s more difficult (but not impossible) to discern the effectiveness of the vaccines. But that’s a little like saying insulin is of little use because the population as a whole gets little benefit. A diabetic would beg to disagree.
I meant skewed in that its very unlikely that the 80 percent of deaths we have seen since jan 1st, are occuring unvaccinated . The rate maybe high, but 3 deaths in that populatuon group would give u above 3 deaths per 100k. Whereas 30 deaths in the rest of the 60+ pop would be a significantly less rate of deaths, even though 10x the number. At some point, using small numbers becomes an issue when comparing rates right?
Add in the fact that the category is not even unvaccinated, and it muddies the water.
As for the insulin, absolutely, but we dont give insulin to everyone, and then close candy shops because a diabetic might get crazy and start popping back boatloads of mini eggs!! And without knowing statistics on ibsulin, but i umagine its far more effective at controlling its antagonist than these vaccines. If 70 percent of the deaths in canada since jan 1st are in vaccinated… And you have a vaccination of 85 percent, regardless of where the deaths come from agewise, isnt it still demonstrating a lukewarm success, at best?
I don’t know what you’re getting at with the “skewed” argument. I deal with statistics professionally, and I can’t tease out your point.
But you seem to have talked yourself into an argument where there is no dataset that would convinces you that vaccination is valuable.
And the diabetic argument was only to show that measuring the value of a treatment for the population as a whole is not particularly revealing. You have to measure the value for those who are actually at risk.
In Canada anyone who came down with illnesses in days 1-14 (1-21 in Sask and BC) were automatically converted to COVID in the unvaccinated. Pfizer’s summary application to the FDA contained a report about what they called false negative COVID. This is now being called (in Pfizer’s latest release) as “vaccination associated respiratory syndrome.” So that means in Canada (and in th USA) all cases of “vaccination associated respiratory syndrome” were counted at COVID in the unvaccinated. Until this data has been clarified no one can say these vaccine reduce hospitalizations.
Almost everyone I know is vaccinated. A few of them felt ill for a day or so, especially for the Moderna vaccine. Not a single one required hospitalization.
I know 5 people who required medical attention post vaccine. I don’t know anyone who has died from Covid, and know of only one serious case.
Do you know anyone who ended up in the hospital with COVID?
I know six people who have been fully jabbed and all six have come down with Covid , my one neighbour has blood clots now which meant they had to return from Arizona in January. The reason for the jabs was so they could winter in the south! She was desperately sick after her second jab . That left her totally unable to do anything for nearly 5 weeks. This is a woman who was just retired living a wonderful active life . My best friend and her husband are both suffering from Covid right this minute . They have had all 3 jabs. Now tell me again how wonderful these immune destroying jabs are.
Incorrect. They are WORSE than useless.
“Those who are claiming “well, I got jabbed, I got infected, but it would have been much worse if I didn’t get jabbed” are the worst of the psychotics. First, the majority of Covid-19 infections are asymptomatic according to the CDC itself. Indeed they claim at least six people get infected for each detected infection. You may well have moved yourself from “I sneezed” to “I got pretty damned sick” by taking the shot. You don’t know. But worse is that by taking the jab and then getting infected anyway you have now not just become a potential mutational factory you are one of the people causing what will ultimately become viral escape and the screwing of yourself and others because by definition if you got sick after vaccination the virus got into your system, it has now proved whatever occurred in you evaded the protection you had and then was emitted back out where others can catch it from you after that evasion took place.”
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=243127
They are not depending on individual speculation to determine that the vaccines prevent severe symptoms. They use statistics collected from hospitals.
So “ive”‘s anecdotal evidence is accurate, and mine is not. Uh huh.
They are using faulty and manipulated data to determine that.
They use cheques provided by vaccine manufacturers.
I’d conclude “killer” that you don’t know very many people.
Also it is a fact that many who have had bad reactions to the jabs and or got sick in spite of the jabs are so invested in the dogma of the “science” they keep their negative experience to them selves.
“never underestimate man’s ability to explain away anything.”
“ It’s Easier To Fool People Than To Convince Them That They’ve Been Fooled”
Why would they keep the news to themselves? It’s no secret that vaccines can sometimes cause adverse reactions. No one has ever denied it. It’s expected, as the vaccines are supposed to compel a reaction from your immune system. That’s how they work.
The question is whether the vaccines cause dangerous reactions, and the answer to that is “at worst very rarely”. The risk of serious blood clots, for example, seems to be real but very small:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html
You trust CDC?
That explains everything.
So who do you trust? Bloggers on the internet?
The CDC is a long way from perfect, but they’re far more credible than anything you’ve got.
Did you watch the scientific advisory committee to the FDA talking about the boosters last October? I did. Hours of one scientist after the other from all around the world talking about all the adverse effects and how bad this vaccine was and urging the boosters to stop and the vaccine program to be stopped. The FDA recommended those 65 and over and those at high risk to get boosters. This totally contradicted their own scientific advisory committee. The CDC then expanded the recommendation to everyone on the basis that young healthy people who had contact with the public were “high risk”. From that point forward the FDA made all further decisions WITHOUT convening their scientific advisory committee. If they are not corrupt please explain that.
Justin Burch:
The FDA documents everything. Can you point to a transcript of this?
This is the last open meeting of the advisory committee.
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-hold-advisory-committee-meeting-discuss-merck-and-ridgebacks-eua-application-covid-19-oral
There is a youtube video of the event itself which I watched.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laaL0_xKmmA
Now if you can find a meeting like this since that date you’re better at this game than I am. I have followed this very closely and the FDA simply no longer has such meetings even though they’ve been making decisions like vaccinating children, offering a fourth dose. Compare what the independent experts were saying to what the FDA finally recommended to what the CDC came out with and you can easily see the obvious blatant corruption.
I also note you are ignoring my observation above on days 1-14 (1-21 in Sask and BC) and the connection to vaccine associated respiratory syndrome.
And I would like to know if you have read the Pfizer summary to the FDA and the assorted releases forced on Pfizer since then? I have. Fascinating reading for a retired medical researcher in biostatistics.
Tell that to my neighbour!
So your anecdotal evidence is accurate and mine isn’t. I’m skeptical.
You’re not skeptical, you’re a clown. Go fly a kite.
I personally do not do anecdotal evidence. I prefer published studies based on real data fully disclosed. The Scottish data comes pretty close. Anything out of Canada and the USA is as corrupt as the FDA and CDC.
“ Why would they keep the news to themselves?”
Pride. See my quote above.
“ anecdotal” ok.
In my own family of 21 souls.
Two with lasting on going adverse reactions.
Sorry. Not rare enough for me.
I notice that anytime someone doesn’t like a scientific result it becomes “dogma”, as if it can only be explained through the researchers’ rigid thinking. Evidence of this rigid thinking is that the writer prefers the result not be true.
Sorry, but if you want to contest some scientific result, you’re going to have to bring something equally as good, preferably credible science that says otherwise.
I trust the science, and the scientists that are not payed government bureaucrats.
Dr. Robert Malone
Dr Peter Mccullough
Dr Pierre Kory
Dr Yeadon
Dr Simone Gold
Dr Battachura
…and other brave, courageous people.
Their message and evidence is very different than yours and government.
Have they published papers on COVID vaccines? Can you cite those papers?
I don’t know about the others, but Malone is a wacko who regularly claims he invented mRNA vaccines. Other researchers in the field say his contribution was minor.
Have you been hiding in a Public Health office for 2 years?
Seriously!!
You lose credibility when you call Dr Malone a wacko.
If you don’t know about the others you have swallowed the government lies and koolaid.
Enjoy your comfy little shelter.
Malone might be a hero of yours, but your hero is a wacko. Sorry if I dragged you out of YOUR comfy little shelter.
Interesting how you are so quick to criticize others for “dogma” but you resort to the common tactic of smearing those you don’t like with labels like “wacko” completely ignoring his published defence of the slander that he did not “invent mRNA vaccines” (he has the proof in his patent list) and just ignoring the data you don’t want to look at like the extensive publication records of likes Dr Peter Mccullough, Dr Pierre Kory, Dr Yeadon, Dr Simone Gold, Dr Battachura.
Take Dr. Kory. Even Wikipedia can’t ignore his credentials and experience. So slandering Malone with the Whacko lable while ignoring the likes of Dr. Kory simply illustrates your very selective bias.
I only call Malone a wacko because he thoroughly deserves it. If you’re favouring Malone over almost the entire medical community then you made the wrong choice — not because the medical community is always right, but because Malone is not at all trustworthy.
No I did not “favour Malone over everyone else.” You favoured Malone over everyone else. You picked out Malone as a wacko and you ignored all the other physicians on the list. Then you did it again in my response, accusing me of doing what you just did, attacking Malone while ignoring all the rest. You don’t know about the others? Then you are woefully ignorant about some of the leaders in the field with publications records as long as your arm and credentials up the wazzo and you need to look into that.
Liar
I think Killer Marmot is an MD who lives in big pharma’s pocket and takes monthly backhanders, like most doctors who just love prescribing pills for everything.
That’s right. They pay me millions to argue on the internet. Tomorrow I’ll be test driving a new Maserati MC20.
*SNORT*
Then why are you so invested in this topic that you’ve responded to almost everyone? OCD?
I can’t believe any government stats anymore or anything from the media. Despite Big Tech censorship, in the comment sections of articles about the vaccines, I’ve read about thousands of dead and injured.
Kate had this link a while back. https://www.eugyppius.com/p/from-sore-arms-to-sudden-death?s=r
At this point, I think the only debate is whether this was some sort of horrible accident or deliberate genocide. I vote genocide to save Mother Earth and eliminate people before the economy collapses.
“Then why are you so invested in this topic that you’ve responded to almost everyone?”
Because there’s no one else making the case for vaccination here, and because the topic is important. Skepticism is important, but taken to excess it becomes destructive.
No one else is making the case for vaccination????? ROTFLMAO! Every single media outlet, endless advertising each and every day on everything from your local newspaper to youtube and twitter, 24/7 push for the vaccine. Endless censorship of anyone who dares to speak out, doctor’s having their license suspended for speaking out, papers fully peer reviewed and published in reputable journals abruptly pulled over the objections of the editors and scientists by the administration of Elsevier, and here you are, out to defend the the vaccines on one of the very few venues where open debate is actually allowed. You’re hilarious.
“Confession by projection” is my diagnosis.
“I can’t believe any government stats anymore or anything from the media. Despite Big Tech censorship, in the comment sections of articles about the vaccines, I’ve read about thousands of dead and injured.”
You have to decide where to get your information: scientific papers and reports, or blogs and social media?
I pick the first. Scientific papers are far from perfect, but they’re better than the alternatives by a country mile.
You have to decide where to get your information: scientific papers and reports, or blogs and social media?
I pick the first. Scientific papers are far from perfect, but they’re better than the alternatives by a country mile.
We can pay someone to write a scientific paper or report to tell you that you should REALLY be trusting the anecdotal comments on blogs and social media.
Scientific papers and reports are not better alternatives and haven’t been for I don’t know how long. Maybe ever. If every paper were heavily scrutinized and heavily criticized pointing out every flaw….then maybe. A big huge intellectual catfight with each published paper would rule. But no. We have a gentlemen’s agreement to never really criticize each other’s work to keep the money flowing.
And the anecdotal comments on blogs and social media should actually be leading to new questions and research, shouldn’t they? But no. The science is settled. Shut the heck up you science denier and get in line for the next shot. Yeah, science rules.
Incidentally, I used to go to this link on Twitter for over a week, which somehow had let people post about vaccinesideeffects. It was very active with plenty of personal stories and links to articles about injured athletes, etc. The link is now dead. Like scientific papers, bought or threatened to follow the official narrative.
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23vaccineSideEffect&f=live
If you don’t want to follow or trust the scientific literature then you’re pretty much toast. You have no dependable compass by which to navigate. The rumours that pass for facts in this debate are worse than useless. You’re left with whatever you want to believe, and that will only be true occasionally, and then by accident.
You win Killer. You have outposted me.
In victory, I give you my next 31 shots.
May the smartest of us, of course that will be you because SCIENCE, survive.
And I would think questioning the scientific literature would be welcome. No tough questions to anyone about anything was pretty much the first clue that something was not right. Everything was scripted.
It’s not a matter of believing the science unquestioningly. There should always be doubt and skepticism.
But ultimately you have to make a decision. Which sources of information are the most credible? Which give you the best chance of making the right decision?
The fact is, they lumped in adverse effects with covid infections if the effects occur within 2-4 weeks of injection, thus inflating “unvaxxed covid hospitalizations” and deflating vax adverse effects.
Taking this into account, there is no evidence at all of the injections having any positive effects at all.
KM
If all that shit does is “reduce symptoms”…which I fully believe is what PFIZER Themselves had said…then it NOT nor EVER WAS a “vaccine”…as it was so deliberately LIED about via the MSM.
Simply a “treatment” that demonstrably Maims & KILLS Humans.
Pretty much BY DESIGN imo.
I’m still trying to contact myself on alternate Earths to confirm the ‘reduce symptoms’ idea.
I haven’t had Covid, so I’m trying to find near identical Earths with me in near identical circumstances. I need to find one unvaccinated Stateless that actually had Covid and a second vaxxed Stateless that had Covid. Once they both can quantify their pain and suffering on an agreed upon scale, I’ll be able to confirm that the jab helped.
But Alternate Earths.
It’s taking me awhile.
Give me 2 more weeks…
The vaccines were very effective at preventing infections in the earlier variants of COVID, around 95% for some. But as the virus mutatated, the efficacy dropped, presumably because the vaccines were not designed specifically for the later variants.
This is no secret. It’s well known.
It was well known the virus originated in China. If you said that you were racist. It was well known masks didn’t work. If you said that you were a science denier.
It was well known the Covid booster was not a vaccine. If you said that you were a ignorant.
But the people who said that have been proven correct.
You on the other hand are incorrect in everything thing you are arguing as you insist on believing every lie you were told. Until you act like an adult and admit you were duped you are lost.
Which “efficacy” are you using? Relative risk or absolute risk?
Alan…sorry “Killer”….do you eat and approve of “GMO” food products.