After breaking into residents’ homes to seize them: “The guns will be returned to owners after residents are allowed back in town and they provide proof of ownership…”
You don’t say;
Will be tougher down the road to get people to evacuate in a disaster now that we know RCMP will root through our personal stuff #abflood
— Cory Morgan (@CoryBMorgan) June 28, 2013
Update: PMO to RCMP: Give back the High River guns
h/t Rick
(11:23am – bumped)
It’s a good bet that most of the guns seized were not documented properly by the RCMP as to which house they were taken from,so when it comes time to give them back,finding the true owner will be almost impossible.
It would take quite a while to copy down each individual serial number and the address of the house it came from.The RCMP are a paramilitary organization, not a bunch of recording clerks.The owners are going to very probably be SOL.
I imagine some people waterproofed their registration certificates, and a few of those survived the flood. Also,any guns purchased since the LGR was closed aren’t registered,so the owner’s only hope is if he kept the store receipt.
I believe gun shops are still required to record the name and PAL number of a gun purchaser,so maybe the owners will have some proof through that source.
Otherwise,the RCMP members are about to receive a nice gift for their private collections.
As I said in another thread, we’re living in a police state,surrounded by the illusion of freedom.
Just sent this to the PM
Mr. Harper,
The recent actions of the RCMP in High River to seize firearms from people`s homes is very disturbing to me. Especially their contention that they will only be given back if ownership can be proven. It seems to me that the proof is in the location from which they were obtained. This is downright scary behaviour, and the people who made this decision should be called too account.
A great many Canadian firearms owners voted for Conservative candidates, and have given money to the Conservative Party in part because of our concerns about this sort of thing. You kept your promise to remove the registry. That was a good step. I will watch how this gets handled with great interest.
I have to say how dismayed I am that the once proud Canadian institution of the RCMP has been reduced to things like this. Soft on crime, and hard on law abiding gun owners. Breaking into homes and stealing property. Worse than common thieves. At least thieves do not use the coercive power of the state to prevent their victims from occupying their own property, while they rifle through their things. Now ever resident of High River who can`t find their Grandmother`s diamond ring will have to wonder about the mounties who were going though their personal property. As for me, they are no longer welcome in my home without a warrant. This is the effect of actions such as these. Trust is eroded. Trust that is not easily won back.
The RCMP are the enemy of the people of Canada. They should have been thrown out of BC when their contract was up. Rotten to the core. Keep the horse show and fire the rest.
We knew that the RCMP were murderers. Now they are established as thieves.
There has been looting in Calgary. My friend’s house was evacuated and he refused to put the “X” on his door as he knew what would happen. Every other house on his street did. Every other house on his street was robbed. A friend who works for the City told me that there had been looting in downtown and throughout the Mission, Roxboro, Elbow Park areas. They don’t advertise this because, if they did, people would not leave in the next evacuation.
As a side note, good to see fellow conservatives finally waking up to the fact that police are simply bureaucrats with guns and are no friends of the citizenry.
“We forced you to leave, stopped you from returning, kicked your door in and stole your stuff and we’re not giving it back till you prove it”
Gubment
After begging 50 lined up armoured cops to look around the corner and stop a few unarmed black block skinny drug addicts from burning one of their police cars they abandoned for no apparent reason and then being chased away and told to “F” OFF” for the rest of the weekend during the G20 .
I have no problem anymore understanding “We’re the prey they’re the predator”.
I’d sneak back to my house and gladly be arrested by these fucking thieves.
Can’t wait for all the pictures of the busted open safes we’re forced to buy by these STATIST #$$#0^@$.
And to think that just today there are stories on the Sun News site telling us to trust the government and that “public safety” is paramount. Then they smash our doors in and steal our property in the name of public safety.
I wanted to chime in with my thoughts on this. My first Bias is that I have friends in High River and live in Calgary. I was not personally affected by the floods, but have many friends who are – and have spent countless hours this week helping them dig out.
Now that being said – most of us on this forum have an inherent distrust of the MSM. So the first question I want to pose is why we should fully believe this very poorly written article? When I read the article it initially made me very pissed off, however upon further reading – what it really did was highlight a lot of questions which did not seem to be truly asked or even attempted to answer.
Here is what I know – the RCMP went Door to Door in High River to ensure all citizen evacuated to ensure public safety, which legally they can do in a state of emergency. In that process they found guns. What the article DOES NOT indicate is if they found those guns stored correctly in gun safes, etc.. or if they found them stored unsafely in a closet, etc…
Now IF those weapons were in gun safes – and they extricated them from those safes – then the RCMP will deserve all the criticism it is and will get. But if those weapons were not in safes, and the RCMP have collected them to ensure that looters do not steal them to be used in potentially illegal manners, have documented those weapons appropriately enough to ensure they get returned to the homeowner/resident AND provides those weapons back to those owners/residents upon proof of residency (Drivers license) then I don’t think there is a large issue with this and we are making a mountain out of a mole hill (during a very highly emotionally charged situation)
I believe that this article does very little “real journalism” to answer those questions to allow a true informed opinion to be formulated. Jumping to conclusions and assumptions on partial facts rarely works out well for those involved and can be dangerous.
Was a time when the police were watch dogs – warning people who misbehaved and fining them for repeated offenses. No longer. They’ve reverted to type and are now wolves, predators if you will. Blindly enforcing government policy. Culture is a top-down thing and unfettered greed has replaced service as an honorable endeavor – it’s a whole lot easier to just take people’s stuff than provide service for value.
Government could not survive if it was governed by the moral and ethical rules of conduct that most us of live by – i.e., don’t lie, don’t steal, etc.
The RCMP must have kept track of what firearms were removed from which home, otherwise thye commited theft. The RCMP should be required to return the firearms to those homes, and simply assure there is at least one resident with a PAL living htere. That’s it.
What about the damage that the firearms received during this “safety measure”? I’m sure that a lot of expensive and excellent condition firearms were carelessly dumped into RCMP trunks (along with their other gear) without cases or any protection. Someone needs to be fired over this. Lawsuits a-plenty.
I didn’t know the the Prime Minister enacted the war measures act. That would be the only excuse the RCMP could have for taking anything from the homes of the victims of this natural disaster.
They have overstepped their boundaries IMO.
The Firearms Regulations DO NOT require storage of non-restricted firearms in gun safes. Sub-para b contains three separate options. Note the “or” at the end of (b)(ii) If the firearm rendered inoperable by a secure locking device and not readily accessible to ammunition, then there is no need to store in a gun safe. Sub para c shows that storing a firearm and ammuniction together requires a safe.
STORAGE OF NON-RESTRICTED FIREARMS
5. (1) An individual may store a non-restricted firearm only if
(a) it is unloaded;
(b) it is
(i) rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking device,
(ii) rendered inoperable by the removal of the bolt or bolt-carrier, or
(iii) stored in a container, receptacle or room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into; and
(c) it is not readily accessible to ammunition, unless the ammunition is stored, together with or separately from the firearm, in a container or receptacle that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into.
So the cops won’t let these folks into their homes, and they take their guns. But I can *guarantee* you if these were aboriginals the cops would step aside in a second and they wouldn’t dare touch their guns even if they were using them to commit violent acts.
The double standard makes me sick to my stomach.
how many gun safes got flooded? in the basement. Too heavy to lift to higher ground by one person.
Some reporter should ask Justin Trudeau what he thinks of this.
Might as well start getting his opinions out there.
He should be available for comment on the barbecue circuit.
And how the H E double hockey sticks do YOU know we have a smart mayor. He is an idiot. Always has been. I’ve lived in and around HR for almost 40 years (since I was 10). If he really was representing the people of HR he would be livid about this gun seizure and be screaming from the roof tops.
I call this LOOTING.
And you bartinsky are an idiot as well!
Welcome to the twenty-first Century version of politically correct “law enforcement”. Legitimate policing should be directed at guarding against or interdiction of looters (for example, appropriately shooting looters on site). Apparently basic policing is beyond them so they are engaged in the low hanging fruit of confiscating guns from the evacuated homes of the law abiding which could be potentially taken by the criminals they admittedly encourage to engage in their craft.
Next disaster the headline might be “RCMP officer mistaken for looter, shot dead”
There’s another point which all of you have missed. Once the police have entry, they can search the house and impound as evidence anything else they may find. You may not have guns in your house, but anything the police find that is incriminating can and will be used against you. The whole point here is that the order to seize the guns amounted to an open-ended search warrant on every private property in the town.
Wars have been fought over just this kind of abuse.
Sdb777…..Long guns don’t have to be in gun safes. They merely need to have trigger locks or bolts, etc., removed….but they DON’T have to be in gun safes. In any event, the whole notion that police can kick your door in is repulsive. They don’t even have the right to physically remove you if you refuse to go…yet they can boot your door in and root around in your stuff?
The powers that be are likely recoiling in horror at the rising tensions that have resulted from this police action. Again, this will be another “wheat from the chaff” moment for me.
Doug Casey: The Rise of the Praetorian Class.
A long read but a good one.
http://www.caseyresearch.com/cdd/rise-praetorian-class
“In Summary
The emergence and rise of the Praetorian Class is a common observation in societies that have transitioned from market-based meritocracies to societies governed by coercive syndicates formed by the Political Class. The Praetorian Class is formed and grown to defend the Political Class and in time becomes the dragon that rules its master. It represents a highly disturbing trend because it foretells the decline, not the advance, of a society. In some instances, the decline is peaceful, clearing the path for an improved future. Unfortunately, in many instances that is not the case. The Political Class leverages the full force of the Praetorian Class representing significant loss in wealth, personal freedom and, in many cases, human life. For this reason, it is critical that productive members of society take steps to protect themselves.”
When the RCMP believe they have the right and the duty to break into a private residence and steal private property it means that the time has come to clean house in RCMP management.
Find out the name of the moron who issued the order to seize the rifles and fire the idiot.
Anyone that stupid cannot be trusted anymore to be a police officer in Canada.
PM Harper . . . time to step up and fix the RCMP.
Buttinsky, you continually prove to be the biggest moron I’ve ever seen in my entire life.
Go back to posting on daveberta.
This is worse than they did to the white residents of New Orleans during Katrina!
During Katrina they actually had to confront the homeowners before seizing their private property.
I wonder how many people of High River were planted with drugs, illegal pornography, a body or any other illicit infraction.
If I was a defense attorney, there could never be any evidence seized in the future for High River resident homes that may have been planted by the RCMP. Even a year from now any evidence presented in court is “contaminated”.
Of course in a police state, they just make it all up as they go anyway.
This story from the Globe and Mail site is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act. In my opinion, it is welcome news.
The Prime Minister’s Office is stepping into the controversy surrounding the flood response in High River, Alta., saying the RCMP should have better things to do than seize residents’ guns.
The town remains under evacuation, and emergency crews have been going from home to home, searching for people and assessing damage.
Stephen Harper’s office sided with the residents.
“We expect that any firearms taken will be returned to their owners as soon as possible,” PMO spokesman Carl Vallée said. “We believe the RCMP should focus on more important tasks such as protecting lives and private property.”
On Thursday, RCMP Sergeant Patricia Neely said the guns will all be returned. “Firearms that were unsafely stored in plain sight were seized for safekeeping,” she said. By Friday, an RCMP spokesperson said the force was preparing a statement on the gun seizure.
Canadian law requires that guns be unloaded and locked away when stored.
High River, population 13,000, was worst-hit by last week’s flooding. Much of the town remains under water, and officials say it’s too dangerous for residents to be allowed back in. That has left municipal leaders under fire from residents anxious to assess the damage at their home.
Danielle Smith, leader of Alberta’s Official Opposition Wildrose Party and the MLA who represents High River, said on Twitter she doesn’t have a problem with RCMP seizing loose guns. “The problem is if residents have trouble getting them back,” she said. She added that it’s unclear how many guns Mounties seized.
Friggin Nazis! Nothing more, nothing less. What would have made their day was to find someone speaking Polish and kill them. Totally useless against criminal code offences but especially effective against honest taxpayers not lining up in the right queue.
Just because a long gun is “stored in plain sight” does NOT mean it was unsafely stored. Patricia Neely might want to understand the law. Long guns do NOT have to be locked away when stored. Canadian law does NOT require that long guns be locked away. They can be displayed legally. Yet another lie from the cops. Do these idiots realize just how much damage they are doing to themselves?
Why hasn’t the water subsided in High River? Perhaps it is toime for 15000 people to pick a time and go home all at once. There’s something really screwy going on there.
And Danielle Smith doesn’t have a problem with loose guns being seized? Ouch – may be time to renew my relationship with my Conservative MLA. He actually is conservative.
How much did they steal?
How much did they plant?
How much personal private information did the RCMP extract from people’s homes to either blackmail or coerce with in the future?
Daniel Smith must not have a problem with the RCMP seizing all of her jewelry and personal papers for safe keeping the next time she is “Forced to evacuate”.
Just remember that Emile Blokland is up for re-election in a few months. I hope Highriver residents will vote this clown out of office.
http://emileblokland.com/
Looks like martial law has been proclaimed in High River. The ruling class is afraid. There is little more dangerous in this world than a gov’t in fear of it’s citizens and Redford looks very frightened indeed.
“Just because a long gun is “stored in plain sight” does NOT mean it was unsafely stored.”
Indeed!
Whats really funny is that “…..in plain sight” now means behind the locked doors of your private residence.
Scar, the water hasn’t subsided because like New Orleans, large parts are in a bowl and need to be pumped out. But there does seem to be some real bungling going on down there. Very, VERY poor response indeed.
Say…..the Mayor wouldn’t be Ray Nagin, would it?
And the exterior locked doors of your house are usually the most secure in the whole house.
Time to put a stop to contracting for police service from the RCMP.
In a different time, police who entered homes and behaved like this
would find themselves under arrest for looting. Members of the armed
forces acting this way in the handling of an aid to the civil power
mission – the punishment does bear thinking about way back when.
The RCMP are the responsibility of the Minister for Public Safety, Vic Toews. He’s the guy who got rid of the long-gun registry so have some respect. He is the one who can call the commissioner of the RCMP onto the carpet.
Here’s his email
toewsv1@parl.gc.ca
I guess we all better wear bathing suits in the shower and bedrooms of our homes.
Apparently now when the RCMP kick in your door without a warrant you may be violating indecency laws including public nudity, fornication, or whatever else they decide for being “In plain sight”.
PM Harper is not happy with the gun seizures. Tells RCMP to return them.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/06/28/pol-pmo-guns-alberta.html
The lefty comments in the CBC article are hilarious, basically calling Harper a Nazi for getting involved in police business.
Even the somewhat center of left dolts seem to think that the RCMP were doing a good job of breaking into people’s homes and confiscation “unsecured firearms”.
Hey dummies – if they’re in someone’s locked home obviously out of public sight they are secured.
If the cops have that much energy and concern why not simply SECURE them for the residents, like take out a bolt, lock in a bathroom or closet (perfectly legally stored). Surly that would take far less time and energy away from said humanitarian searches than confiscating, carrying, documenting et al.
“He’s the guy who got rid of the long-gun registry so have some respect.”
Well, it appears that you caught the bone the CPC threw you, huh?
Call me when Toews and the CPC get rid of the provisions in the Criminal Code that state that with out a license being in possession of a firearm makes you a criminal. Or that the police don’t need a warrant to enter the home of a firearms owner to inspect storage. Or stop the RCMP from reclassifying firearms that are already owned by Canadians.
This isn’t a strictly left-right issue. Here’s what John Baglow, who is just a tad to the left of Trotsky, wrote today in his Dawg’s Blog:
“In Canada, it appears, RCMP officers can now jimmy your lock and enter your home without a warrant, rifle through the contents (no pun intended), and make off with what they like.
The Mounties barricaded the town of High River, refusing to permit flooded-out residents to check on their homes even in areas where the water had subsided. Then they effectively looted the homes, seizing legally held firearms from scores of them.
“It’s just like Nazi Germany,” one displaced resident shouted. I can forgive him his hyperbole, under the circumstances.”
In contrast, Danielle Smith, who masquerades as a conservative,”doesn’t have a problem” with B and E by the RCMP.
Most of the comments on the CBC website are the usual lefty drivel. The police committed break and enter and the desk sergeant at the detachment where the guns are now “stored”, is in possession of stolen goods.
And to the CBC loonies, the PMO is entirely correct in telling the RCMP to start obeying the law!
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/calgary/Province+will+work+with+RCMP+return+High+River+firearms/8593564/story.html
Another by the NP:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/06/28/more-important-tasks-pmo-says-it-expects-rcmp-to-return-guns-seized-from-evacuated-high-river-homes/
Lessoned Learned during Alberta Martial Law 2013:
#1. Take all or as many of your guns as you can when forcefully evacuated. You may need to sell some on the street for food and supplies you could not otherwise carry with you.
#2. Store guns around the province so that you will have access to them when forcefully evacuated from your home.
#3. If you only own one gun – sell useless stuff and buy MANY MORE guns so that you can facilitate 1&2.
#4. Buy your friends and neighbors guns, so that they can help out later when your guns are stolen.
I guess the problem I have with all of this is that all of our information is based entirely on our media – and we all have absolute faith in their abilities to tell the story completely, competently, and without bias and sensationalism, Right? Right?
That’ll larn ya – next time, take yer guns with ya.
Yes, ALL of them!
Al_in_Ottawa – Vic Toews did NOT get rid of the long gun registry. That credit goes solely to Garry Breitkreuz who was fighting it for years and never gave up. Here’s HIS e-mail if anyone wants to thank him for it: garry.breitkreuz@parl.gc.ca
Let’s not rewrite history – that is what lefties do.
Perhaps all the unfounded conclusions that people have jumped to will contain lessons for the future.