… by the numbers:
A former official in the George H.W. Bush White House estimates that the bloated public and private debt in the US works out to $250,000 for every man, woman and child in the country.
David Walker, the former US Comptroller General, says that the federal debt level is approaching $55 trillion and if you add in the what is owed on the state and local levels — plus personal household debt — it adds up to $75 trillion in obligations.
Walker, who now heads the Peter G. Peterson Foundation, named for the co-founder of the Blackstone Group, warned that without fiscal restraint, Uncle Sam may be guaranteeing that our future is not as prosperous as our past.
At the $75 trillion deficit level a family of four owes $1 million, he said.
Earlier this year Walker wrote on Politico.com: “Social Security and Medicare alone are already underfunded by about $44 trillion, or $146,000 per American, in today’s dollars, and this number is growing on auto pilot every year by about $2 trillion, or $6,600 per American.”
Source
… commenters who are so inclined, may want to compare how the above numbers stack up against Canada … or other countries.
Thomas Paine responds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeYscnFpEyA
Canada’s CPP is in comparatively better shape. The liberals doubled the CPP tax on young people. After all, it wouldn’t be fair to deny the old people the benefits to which they feel entitled but neglected to pay for. So, if you are young, your taxes doubled but your benefit stayed the same so that the old need not worry about their handouts. Young people: suffering so you don’t have to.
Thanks old people! You thieving, selfish louts…
As for Medicare, those same old people may be in trouble when they need treatment to stay alive. I’d take that free CPP money and spend it buy private insurance in the US cause the gov’ment is going to lengthen the waiting lists till you all die on it waiting for care… That’s what you lot get for electing trudeau.
I can’t remember where I read about this methodology of forcing everyone to be in debt to ensure they have no leftover money to demand the rights and other stupid stuff.
Currency Devaluation – the only way out. (If you can call it a ‘way’ out.
aka printing money – which gov’ments of the world are already doing.
Yes, well, according to Obama’s politics and personal views, wealth = greed, so he’s just making sure every American family has the same standard of living as the most remote, 3rd World nation out there.
In the name of “equality” and all that.
Jason go screw yourself.
I have been working for over 45 years and paying into CPP for about 40 years. What I will receive in CCP benefits monthly when I finally retire will not even cover what I pay in taxes every week at the present time.
When we “thieving, selfish louts” finally die off, you lazy young over privileged jerkoffs will be inheriting a whole lot of money you haven’t earned and in cases likes yours don’t deserve.
I’m sure glad you aren’t my kid. I can see you now.”Dad isn’t going to make it pull the plug”
“But sir he only has a broken hip”
If referring to the Hyppies, Trudeau included, then Jason makes a point
largs,
If one group is asked to pay double what another group is charged for the same thing to make up what the previous lot didn’t pay for, what do you call it?
I could give a flying f*** how long you worked. EVERY generation in history past, present and future goes through the same damn thing. You are born, you work, you grow old, you die. This does not entitle you to steal the future out from those that follow you.
The “but I paid so I earned it” doesn’t cut it and isn’t true. Simply put, if you earned it where’s the money? If you earned it, why is the bill being presented to others? It’s like going to a restaurant and throwing $5 on the table and ordering the lobster and champagne while claiming to have paid.
Your lot leave us with enormous unfunded liabilities you will not pay before your death. Your generation leaves without paying off the national and provincial debts you racked up. Your generation leaves us with crumbling infrastructure because you didn’t maintain it. Etc. Etc. Etc. ad nauseum.
Whine all you want. It’s the people who come after you who you buggered over and who get to clean up your mess and pay the tab your generation didn’t pay. These truths may anger you but your whining anger doesn’t negate the verifiable and undeniable facts of the matter.
Oh, and to talk of inheritance is to make yourself look even dumber. What Canada did your generation inherit and how’s that working out? What did you lot do with it? What are you leaving behind? Fool.
Jason – 1:09pm
It is easy to tell by your statement about old folks getting CPP benefits they didn’t pay for that you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. The rule is pretty simple -and you should be able to understand “simple” – if you don’t pay into CPP you don’t get benefits. Anyone in Canada today that gets CPP benefits has had to make contributions.
A little apology to our seniors I’m sure would be well received. So apologize already then go to your room.
I completely agree with Jason.
Nix the name calling or I will delete you.
The CPP doesn’t amount to much and I wouldn’t miss it if it was gone. Call me naive but I think one should have an individual pension plan. Just my thoughts.
That being said, what’s going on in the US is chilling. Did someone tell Obama that he is frittering away HIS children’s future?
Unfunded pension plans are the next time bomb. Air Canada’s PP is $Billion$ in the hole.
Auto workers bailout. Who will bail out the bailouters ?? The taxpayer !? Our kids ?
In Canada, the whole problem started with Trudeau’s deficit spending.
Socialism always fails when it runs out of other people’s money.
This bone chillin’ fact looks good on America. Rightoids want to reduce taxes and leftards just want without repercussions. Both idiotic scenarios. Did I mention it looks good on them.
Whoa hoe take the money and run….
if you don’t pay into CPP you don’t get benefits. Anyone in Canada today that gets CPP benefits has had to make contributions.
it’s easy to see that you have no idea what you’re talking about, different bob. Yes, paying into CPP entitles you to receive CPP. But for years people have been paying into CPP at a rate much lower than required in order to meet the payouts they will be receiving. Please see Jason’s analogy of dropping a $5 bill for a lobster and champagne dinner if you still have trouble grasping this extremely simple concept.
a different bob
The previous generations did not fund CPP enough to cover what they will take out. Otherwise, premiums for those who follow would not have to double to keep the fund solvent. What part of that very, very simple math is hard to understand?
It’s referred to as “unfunded” liabilities for a very good reason. When the liberals looked at the very deep hole in the CPP actuarial equation there is any combination of two things to fix it: reduce benefits for those who didn’t pay enough to fund the benefits the will receive and/or raise premiums for those who follow to make up the shortfall. Old people vote and babies can’t. Guess what happened? Old people were allowed to continue to rape the nations coffers while the nation’s children were told they will pay for the mistakes of their parents, grandparents and great-grandparents.
And this is only one of the ways today’s old people have selfishly taken care of themselves at other people’s expense. If you even attempt to justify it you shouldn’t consider yourself a conservative. You haven’t earned that right. The same people here whine at the idea they will be asked to make up the shortfall in the GM and Chrysler pensions. What makes you better?
So an apology is in order but I suggest the old apologize to every child they see. The younger you are, the lower your standard of living will be in the future while you pay the legacy costs of greedy people who feel entitled to take out more than they put in.
Jason – 1:58pm
You make some good points and you’re right about leaving a big debt for the next generations. How about this for a solution – at death the government puts on say a 80% tax on the total value of a person’s estate.
That would direct a huge amount of money to the government to help pay off that debt. Of course it sure would cut into the amount left for heirs and beneficiaries but you won’t mind that would you Jason? After all its today’s seniors and the boomers that created the debt so it should be OK with you and your generation that the wealth left behind by these cohorts should be used to retire that debt.
Then, instead of inheriting a huge amount of wealth from today’s old and the boomers, whiners like you will have to get to work and earn your own wealth.
Personally – I think that if a person dies with anymore than $10 in their pocket just didn’t plan it right.
not stirred enough, there’s nothing idiotic about reducing taxes. Reducing taxes brings foreign investments and businesses. These bring more jobs, and lowers unemployment and welfare rates. More jobs mean competition for employees, meaning higher wages, which means more taxes collected. Lower unemployment and welfare rates mean less money needed by government to meet UI and welfare obligations.
From what I’ve heard from my mom if it wasn’t for 3 combined pensions she’d be screwed today at 75 and both her and my father paid into the system, my dad only living to collect for 3 years before his death… Here’s the thing… why does the average CPP cheque range in the 500-600 a month range when the standard for poverty in Canada is over 20k annually???
The system needs to be gutted and revamped… moneys need to be invested not banked…invested in the Banks…they’re laughing with all the bail out cash states side and the Canadian system is still seeing profits in a down economy…
When someone from outside of Canada can come here and apply for social assistance immediately and receive basically free money there’s a bigger problem then CPP
When someone can come here from a forigen country and work 360 hours (9 weeks) on an oil rig for $40 or more an hour and potentially collect 35% of that as income for the balance of the year or for 43 weeks @ $14 an hour and that’s more then what our seniors receive, theres a basic problem with the system…
a different bob
I don’t expect any inheritance. I have earned my way (including working more than one job through university) and started my working career when taxes were already high. As a generation, people in my age bracket will do better than those who come after me. I speak for them more than myself.
As for inheritance taxes, the US already has them and a lot of good it’s done. It’s nowhere near enough to cover the debt. Louses skip out on their debts.
Frankly every generation has individuals who contribute more and less (as will always be the case.) Only the last few have taken out more than you put back as a whole.
Those in my generation will have no choice in the matter as the cupboard is bare (and since they were raised by boomers would most likely do no better.)
Your generation will be damned in history for the short time our civilization will last.
Jason you definitly need a recalocular adjustment of at lest get you head out of your ass. Us old farts paid every penny into CPP that was asked of us. So why am I supposed to feel bad about what you are going to have to pay? Hell, the Big O to the south has his children’s grandkids paying for his spending already. Who knew back in the say your $.25 loaf of bread would cost $2.25 now? 39 cents a gallon of gas and a monthly wage of $300/mo didn’t leave much space to put in a couple of hundred aside so the future governments could piss it away. KD isn’t poor folk food anymore.
Before you were even having to pay taxes I was throwing money into the government coffers so the government of the day could appologize for somebody or other and try to make it up with dollars. Chinese head tax comes to mind. I will also point out that if that CPP money had been kept separate and invested wisely instead of going to “general Revenue” then this wouldn’t be a problem today.
I also got downsized by Cretien and his gang of thieves but couldn’t collect a cent of the 23 years of Unemployment Insursnce contributions. some frikkin insurance. And by the way, my military pension (which I paid into) magically drops by the amount of CPP I’m entitled to at 65. Some benefit, eh.
Short and sweet: Jason grow up and start paying taxes.
I would tend to agree with Jason that pension plans in general and CPP in particular has been, from the get go, a giant ponzi scheme.
The biggest problem with the scheme is that the debt was shifted to the upcoming generation except no one bothered to beget the following generation in sufficient numbers to meet the pension obligations.
What to do, what to do? I know! Immigration!!!!
OMG…. Joe…please read my comment…LOL!!!
a different bob
Oh, and speaking of inheritances, did your generation not have parents? Where you all hatched? Was no wealth passed to your generation, also? That you did (as a generation) is obvious. That you spent it, your wealth and that of several generation yet to come is also obvious. At least to those not of the “me” generation.
You lot talk like the cycle of life, a few billion years in the making started at your own birth. Where you are on it at any given time isn’t the point. What you do from beginning to end is. We’re all going to go through the same cycle. Too many old people think themselves entitle just because they’re old.
You read accounts of people who lived long ago who figured they were caretakers of society for the future. You lot see the reverse. You see the future as yours to spend on yourself.
Wow you really hate old people don’t you kid.
What happened mommy did hug you enough?
In the voice of Ron MacLean – CBC Sports
Welcome back. Sorry but Don can’t make it today.
Well that was an exciting 2 hours of commenting with Jason and Different Bob certainly going at it in the corners.
Lots of arguments for the left and the right. It’ll be interesting to see how the comment thread finishes.
So, all you kids out there, when you gotta go, just remember to CPP.
pete,
Your logic is sound and I agree with it to a point. The point where it goes offside is what individuals do with the money they now have instead of paying taxes.
Offshore accounts, offshore investing, squirreling, foreign holidays, foreign purchases and a whole host of other stuff that does nothing to build a national economy.
Taxation has to be sensible and realistic but it has to ahve a direct affect on making a nation stronger not just entitle.
For a guy supposedly university educated you don’t seem to know alot about which generations had wealth and which didn’t. There has never been wealth in our society like the wealth generated in the last 25 years. Boomer parents are leaving some wealth but it pales in comparison to the wealth that boomers already have.
As for my parents – they raised a family of nine on a one-income government paycheck. Not alot of inheritance to be had there and they didn’t get much when their parents passed away.
By the way – now that you’re working and earning a living maybe you’d like to send some money to the university you went to. You must know that it cost a one hell of a lot more to educate you than you had to pay. So, how about it?
Texas Canuck
Do you think you are the first people on earth to be born, grow old and then die?
Do you think inflation is a new thing?
Funny, you vote in government which buy your votes then use the excuse that the same government didn’t ask you to pay more? It isn’t what was asked of you that is the problem. The problem is what you asked of the government (collectively) in relation to what you paid. In the case of today’s old people, they don’t line up.
For the record, I’ve been paying taxes for some time now and at a higher rate than when you started working and, like every generation in history, will do so for my whole life. But you don’t follow that logic and obviously don’t comprehend that you are not special. That you are not heroic and have not made any special sacrifice merely be being old. The one caveat is that military service is different although it has to be pointed out that a whole lot of defined benefit pensions drop when you get CPP. Most companies don’t even offer defined benefit plans any more so that issue will become moot for anyone but government workers.
The point is that you should be able to enjoy the fruits of success you earned. You should not enjoy the fruits of no success which wasn’t earned regardless of age. As a generation, you’re demanding more than you paid for and using very lame excuses why the debts and liabilities you leave behind aren’t your fault. Which, come to think of it, makes you sound like a liberal.
I also completely agree with Jason. I think the Baby boomers are going to be considered the most crooked generation.
@a different Bob (1:59) & Largs: the CPP is an aggregate over a population (and this case generation), what you individually did is beside the point. The fact that the CPP is an unfunded liability means, as any accountant will tell you, what it owes out is more than what is there! Your generation did not pay its fair share, either because your contributions were not high enough, your investments were poor, or you redirected your contributions to general government revenue. If you had paid your fair share, then as a percentage of GDP, the government debt over your generation would have gone down, and similarly with percentage of the CPP to GDP that was funded.
not stirred, offshore accounts only exist because of high taxes. If you can invest your extra money and see a reasonable return, you won’t have need of offshore accounts.
I have saved a lot of money over the years because I have no company or government pension. I did without a lot of life’s pleasures including vacations, toys, new cars, summer cottages, new televisions, eating out etc. I didn’t mind since I felt it was more important to be prepared for the future than to have the indulgences that most believe they are entitled to. I have been self-employed my whole career. I now collect both CP and Old age pensions. Combined total just over 900 per month.
Because our government as well as the US government have meddled extensively in the market and continually changed the rules mid stream, I will have a lot less income in the future. I have never taken any other money from any government, but at this point, I feel the government owes me that paltry sum which is far less than they give to ingrate immigrants most of whom will never contribute nearly as much as they will take out.
My retirement will be modest, but with no debt and thrifty living, I should be fine.
Some of my fiends will retire with a fat government pension which you and I pay for. The difference is that I have always enjoyed what I did for my living and those government drones are full of regret that they spent their lives working in a thankless process that was meaningless and we all would have done just fine without. I call that a wasted life.
I feel that my self-reliance has made me happier and more content than those who have simply lined up at a trough. The choice is between living like a eagle or a pig.
What did you choose?
a different bob
Again, life cycle. Funny, old people always point to school and say: “see, you don’t have it so bad” except that over my lifetime, I will have to pay for all government services my generation will rack up PLUS part of the services YOUR generation recieved but didn’t pay for – PLUS interest. The folliwing generation will pay what my generation doesn’t as well as for themselves.
So right back at you. The math is over a lifetime, not by the time you graduate university. (deleted)
… any more insults Jason and your posts will be deleted ~ Paul
Pension plans a Ponzi scheme now !? Just wait.
In a couple of decades or so, most countries will be looking at zero population growth – negative even. You think there are not enough youngins paying in at the bottom now.
Just saying, as child bearing and rearing is a huge commitment – financially and otherwise.
Same actuarial math goes for medicare, gov’ment debt, ect.
Ron,
Take away immigration and we already have negative population growth in all of the western world except the US which has bare replacement.
Western society is doomed.
Garbage in – garbage out. The present old folks plus the boomers will leave far more wealth behind than the debt they have helped to create. Its up to governments to tax it to help pay off the debt. If they don’t do that and let it flow to your generation are you going to do the right thing with it and voluntarily pay down the debt?
I’m not advocating for estate taxes but on the other hand after I die what do I care what happens to money I no longer need. If the government uses it to pay off debt then your generation should have no trouble paying for the things you need and want in life since there is not more debt to service.
We don’t have a debt problem when the wealth exists to pay it down. It’s the polical will to do it that is lacking.
As posted earlier, the raiding of CPP surplus early in the programme is the main contributing factor.
How much of the raided money ended up in the pockets of high placed LIBRANOs???
“Its up to governments to tax it to help pay off the debt.”
Bulls**t.
Governments are a direct reflection of the morals and values of the people who send them there.
It’s up to the electorate to demand that the government do the right thing. It is we who demanded they do the wrong thing.
Don’t pass the buck. That’s how you got us to where we are.
Jason the one point you may not have considered is that CPP are taxable benefits. You are right in that some never paid the maximum or for that many years. Don’t confuse CPP with OAS which ensures a better brand of dog food. If CPP did not pay then OAS would. Also consider you have the advantage of the TFSA. You can build your investments tax free and old farts never had that option. When you take money out of an RSP, say 10,000 they withhold 20% for taxes. If you are above that bracket you will pay more. Just sayin’.
Momar,
I have saved a lot of money over the years because I have no company or government pension. I did without a lot of life’s pleasures including vacations, toys, new cars, summer cottages, new televisions, eating out etc.
I call that living like a mole! Personally I have indulged myself on every front. The difference being I’m super motivated and worked smart to apy for my excessive lifestyle.
Speedy
First, we’re talking generations, not individuals. There are plenty of deadbeats in my generation (they were raised by the boomers after all,) and plenty of good people in older ones. My generation will not pillage the future because they won’t have that opportunity. There is nothing left to steal. The fact remains though, if you are over somewhere between 55 and 60 years old today, as a whole, complete generation, you are responsible for the debt. Period. People after that age (or thereabouts) may certainly have decided to continue that moral rot if given the chance but that chance won’t be available. Over the lifetimes of someone younger than 55-60ish, they will pay more than they receive. The younger, the more they will pay and the less they will receive in return. The math just works that way.
Second, the tax rate has risen very dramatically in relation to what the tax rate was in say, 1967 (the year before trudeau.) So, although the government has thrown a few bones out there, the tax burden is hugely bigger than it was. TSFA’s will do very little to mitigate it. RRSP’s less so as they are what is replacing all those defined benefit pensions no longer offered (and never actually funded.)
All you need to know is that in 1967 there was very little debt and zero unfunded liabilities in programs. In 2009 there is enormous debt and even bigger gaps in funding on programs that didn’t even exist for the generation which preceded today’s old people. Most of the programs were designed to help the depression generation but the money was mostly spent on the next couple of generations which didn’t even suffer the hardship of the depression and were capable of funding their own lifestyle even if they chose not to. The boomers will finish the pot off. Then the illegal aliens will be travelling in the other direction.
Western society: good while it lasted.
I meant people somewhere between 55 and 60 on up, not just the people between 55-60. That’s the approximate cut-off.
Rather than holler at all the old people pulling CPP or social security, maybe a little introspection is in order. Most of them paid more than they are going to pull.
Problem is that its all a government solution, and we know how well those work.
No matter how much taxes our snot-nosed gen x gen y generation is going to pour into the system, its going to be our kids who are screwed over the worst.
“No matter how much taxes our snot-nosed gen x gen y generation is going to pour into the system, its going to be our kids who are screwed over the worst.”
That’s pretty much what I said. But with the addition that CPP is just the tip of the iceberg.
I would differ on the idea that “Most of them paid more than they are going to pull.” If that was so, we wouldn’t be in the mess we are in.
Those with high incomes (actual high incomes, not the ludicrous “high income” definition set out by the tax man…) of course will have paid more but the older you are, the less likely that is and the less you made, the less likely that is.
I suppose I should raise the age though, those as low as 55-60 may well still be alive when we hit the wall and they won’t be in a position to adapt.
It seems to me that the debt issue in the US is solidly the domain of the movement conservatives. If you look at a graph of debt to GDP ratio (http://zfacts.com/p/318.html) it came down from WWII, leveled off under Nixon, skyrocketed under Reagan (times seem great on borrowed money), decreased under Clinton, and then continued up under Bush the younger. Seems to me the “don’t tax but spend like crazy” Republicans have something to learn about fiscal responsibility. The only solution they have now is to inflate their way out of the problem which is why they have their money printing machine running overtime right now and why the US dollar will soon be on par with the peso.
Once again, I find my self forced to inject simple mathematics into an emotional debate.
Jason, I instinctively agreed with you, but I checked the math.
Largs worked 40 years. I don’t have access to all the tables and interest rates available, so I’m going to make some assumptions: Currently, the max annual contribution to CPP in Ontario is just over $2110. I’m sure when Largs started, it was probably closer to $100, but let’s say it was $300 just to be generous. The average of the two is $1205. I don’t know what type of returns the the CPP has enjoyed, but I’m sure it has fluctuated, so I’m going to use 6% annually as an average over the 40 years. It really doesn’t make much difference. Now, using Excel’s Future Value function, that works out as follows:
The FV of $2,410 (remember, the employer matches your contribution, so we have to double the $1,205) for 40 years at 6% is $372,000. That’s what Largs contributions are worth.
Now, again assuming an annual rate of 6%, and that Largs lives until 85 (i.e. draws 20 years of benefits), Excel’s PPMT function lets you calculate what his investment is worth each month. In Largs’ case, he should receive $2,658 each month; this is not quite 3 times the maximum CPP benefit for 2009.
At that rate, Largs’ account doesn’t go into deficit until the last year of his life.
Now, let’s divide that payment by half, so he gets $1,300 per month, which is still about 50% more than the current max. In this case, Largs’ account actually grows each year; when he kicks at 85, his account is worth over $600,000.
But, of course, the payment is adjusted each year by the CPI, so let’s assume that the CPI is 1% less each year than the interest earned on the account, and that each month’s payment is increased by that amount each year. At this rate, at 85, Largs’ account is worth just less than $300,000. And remember, that with CPP payments 50% higher than today’s maximum.
Let’s use 4% for the interest rate, and 3% for the CPI, average, and a monthly payment roughly equal to today’s max. At 85, Largs’ account is still worth over $58,000. If he’s lucky enough, his account is still positive until he’s 89.
Now, at 70, a non-smoking, non-alcoholic male whose a little overweight, moderately active, with high blood pressure (just as an example) has a life expectancy of about 12 years. Not wishing anything bad on Largs, but most Canadian men (including me – I’m hoping to make 60!) are gone by the time they’re 85.
In summary, Largs was right – he’s quite unlikely to ever recover the value of his CPP payments. If you want to do the work, Jason, and send me the last 40 years of returns on the CPP portfolio, max benefits paid, and the CPI, I can do a more detailed analysis, but I think it will just show the same thing.
Now, be a good lad, and apologize.
One correction Ken … Clinton did not bring down debt, the bond market revolt and Gingrich did. He tried to pull an Obama, but was stopped.
Obama’s forecasted spending will likely be halted by the bond market as well … China today, as a matter of fact, began selling its US bonds. The projected debt is too large to “inflate” out of … Obama will pull back on his spending … he’ll have no choice.
Then, people like you will credit him for “reducing” debt. Funny … considering that he intends on increasing US debt more than all other presidents combined.
Since 1966 the life expectancy in Canada has gone up over 7 years for Canadians, but the retirement age has not changed. We should modify the minimum age on which CPP can be drawn done on by 7 years, and then index it to changes in life expectancy.
Ken
It’s far more complicated than that. The GOP spent too much. Granted. But don’t think the Dems did anything good. The spending from the Carter years gave Reagan the 20% interest rates which swelled the deficit. It was Reagan’s Fed Chair that reversed the destruction.
Clinton had the unsustainable revenue from the tech bubble but (like all the others GOP and Dem) did nothing to fund future liabilities. Bush Jr wasn’t a conservative and added a lot more than just the debt to the books (the unfunded liability of his idiotic drug benefit is in the trillions.)
There, as here, the right side either didn’t do enough to stop the slide that the left started in the Carter/trudeau years (as in the case of Reagan and Mulroney) or made things worse (as in Bush Jr.) Reagan and Mulroney did set the table for the good times though. You could say that the trend is the left buggers things up, the right cleans up most (but not all of) the mess and is hated for it so they get turfed out of office in time for the left to both take credit and start the destruction all over again. Except for Bush Jr who doubled down the spending idiocy.
As for the house and senate, both parties and all involved are wankers of the first order. A pox on both their houses.
If Reagan had funded the increase in military spending instead of borrowing to pay for it, he’d have had a perfect record. If Mulroney wouldn’t have blinked on spending cuts in the face of liberal and NDP screeching, his record would have been ok (he still took the money in envelopes…)
Wow. This thread is making me sound far more bitter than I actually am. I’m pretty much resigned to the dim fate of the future. It just is. Time to adapt…
Jason I am not necessarily disagreeing with you but you have to remember that I too have been paying in and not getting anything back. Now I receive a pension. When I get CPP just about the entire amount is deducted from my pension. I am not sure what that percentage is but I expect it will be about 80%. In other words I paid into the plan with no foreseeable benefit. My pension contributions were 7% of income. It was not unfunded. the fact governments pee’d away that money is not on me. That is on the corpse of Trudeau and the still breathing Paul Martin. They are the ones that made CPP a general revenue ponzi scheme. There was the last I remember 45 billion of assets that were supposed to be there. For that I received things like HRC’s and affirmative action. Not the good AA but the bad AA where people cost but provide no benefits. Now the CPP has a portion invested and in the bull decade it made quite a bit of money. Why did it take so long to do that? Because that money doesn’t go into general revenue where it can be frittered away. As the market comes back the numbers will improve.