Think about that number. That’s the real power of “we, the people.” It’s the shoulder behind our votes if we will only begin to believe again in our own might more than we do in a feckless, unproductive government that seeks to buy our faith with a piddling $925 billion they’ll have to borrow from us before they can get their pictures taken giving it away.
h/t Tenebris
Very Ayn Rand thinking.
I think it will all turn around shortly and Obama will get all the credit, as planned of course, it all feels like a bad movie sometimes.
Sorta puts things in perspective, doesn’t it ?
Demonstrates why Politicians have never been able to fix things – just break them. When it comes to politics, less is more.
Many have lost in this recent downturn but I bet that a small group is taking the biggest part of the hit ?
Who might that be ?
The Ponzi Scheme Believers ? (think Madoff)
The “Renewable” Energy Crowd ?
The ‘has-to-go-up’ House Bubble Believers ?
The AGW dead-ended rent-seekers ?
A drop-in-the-bucket compared to the rest of the economy, but are the ones causing all the trouble – soaking up resources, no productivity.
An excellent case can be made for the flat tax.Why didn’t the republicans do it when they had the majoritys in congress and the senate?
Ayn Rand?! John – Where the heck did you pull that from? Rand was a selfish …person… whose fundamental argument was that the elite should be transparent and upfront in realizing their desires, and that this would somehow drag society uphill.
Read some of instapunk’s earlier stuff. Unlike some, this punk does not post sh!t from h@ll.
Even Madoff is small potatoes compared to the biggest Ponzi scheme artist of them all:
Government.
Kate — Please read this:
http://crux-of-the-matter.com/2009/02/07/liberal-blogger-danielle-takacs-making-false-claims/
Tenebris,
feckless, unproductive government that seeks to buy our faith with a piddling $925 billion they’ll have to borrow from us before they can get their pictures taken giving it away.
That is exactly what Ayn Rand railed against …. How did you miss that?
Take $925 billion: $925,000,000,000
Divide by 300 million (approx US population: 30,000,000
What do you get?
Each person in the US now has a debt of $30,700, spent on their behalf by their elected representative.
Family of four? $122,800.
Before you buy anything else, pay off your debt to the state or else they’ll throw you in jail.
Gawd, am I ever glad I don’t live in the USA with these people who know how to spend my money better than I do in charge.
“Many have lost in this recent downturn but I bet that a small group is taking the biggest part of the hit ?
Who might that be ?
The Ponzi Scheme Believers ? (think Madoff)
The “Renewable” Energy Crowd ?
The ‘has-to-go-up’ House Bubble Believers ?
The AGW dead-ended rent-seekers ?
A drop-in-the-bucket compared to the rest of the economy, but are the ones causing all the trouble – soaking up resources, no productivity.
Posted by: ron in kelowna at February 7, 2009 4:00 PM ”
NO.NO.NO.NO.
The hardest hit,and the getting smaller ones are called taxpayers.
SYF your math is a bit off, by a factor of 10.
The $60 trillion the people are worth is an evaluation of what is mostly things, not money. The trillion being manufactured to ‘fix’ the nation’s problems is the medium of exchange, called money. With the medium of exchange diluted, each dollar will be worth considerably less, so the government can then say your stuff is worth more of the diluted dollars. So when you sell anything, they can collect more tax. The next trick is to “tax the rich”, and guess what sucker? You weren’t rich when the farm was worth a couple of hundred thousand real dollars, so you paid the minimum rate. But now that dollars aren’t worth so much your farm is worth a million of them and that makes you rich. So pay up, at a new rate for rich people.
We’re in for some hard times – only the government and the fools that believe them will tell you different.
Inspired by David Frum’s view, I have to say: what the hell, why don’t both the US and Canadian governments just offer some sort of one-year tax-free holiday for everyone and take the revenue hit as a deficit?
Simple. And no worse than these elaborate schemes.
Posted by: JJM at February 7, 2009 4:32 PM
” biggest Ponzi scheme artist of them all:
Government.”
Exactly – Unionized “government worker / taxpayer hostage takers”.
60 trillion net value.
I had been trying to calculate the worth of the US for some time thru various methods and had come to about 50 trillion. 25 trillion for real estate and a similar number for value of industry.
and I wasnt using the value of real estate from brokers I was just calculating as 100k per housing unit and calling it a mean replacement value.
The biggest issue is that the money is printed by the Federal Reserve, a private bank. They don’t really have the money to lend, so they print it from thin air and then charge the taxpayers interest on it as if it were a loan.
It’s the biggest scam going and congress could take control of fiscal matters back easily and get the Federal Reserve out of our pockets.
The Federal Reserve is no more a federal department than Federal Express is.
Having a one year tax holiday would be a fair and easy idea. The problem is, it doesn’t redistribute the wealth, like the Kyoto protocol does; therefore, the left will never go for it.
or in simple English, when you are in debt up to your eyeballs and when your income is shaky is the time to get a few more credit cards to “help you spend your way to prosperity”.
Obama has turned on the dollar bill printing presses and the result is going to be 80’s style inflation.
Remember when the mortgage rate was around 25% ?
If your stimulation lasts over 4 hours, see a doctor.
Economists must be delighted. We are seeing an enormous economical experiment being undertaken.
Within the year, we will be able to resolve the argument about government spending stimulating the economy.
My money’s on NO, it doesn’t.
The market is more powerful than the president.
More powerful than The Messiah, He Who Will Push Back Oceans?? Say it ain’t so.
People’s basic arithmetic skills are so poor, it’s hard to have an economic argument based on facts.
As someone else pointed out, “set you free” apparently doesn’t know how to divide, as $925 billion divided by the 303 million Americans is $3,052 per capita, not the $30,000 he suggests.
And Instapundit’s $60 trillion figure is so vaguely defined, who can tell if it’s accurate or not? Is this individuals’ net worth (i.e. homes and investments), or does it include all the real estate, farms, industry, etc., whether they’re owned by Americans or not? People should remember that many US bonds and stocks are owned by people in other countries. At any rate, Reuters’ estimate of the value of WORLD (not just US) markets was US$57 trillion in late 2007. US markets are down 40% from that peak, and most other indices in the world have worse performance. So, I would estimate the value of world markets as less than $35 trillion presently, of which the US represents less than half, or $17.5 trillion at most. The NYSE market cap (all the stocks traded on the NYSE) was $10 trillion in October, 2008 (NYSE website), and is down 20% since then, so I would estimate NYSE today is only worth about $8 trillion. It’s hard to believe the NASDAQ or AMEX would be equal to that figure, as they are both much smaller in terms of issues traded.
The National Association of Realtors estimate the value of the average US home as $175,000, so multiply that by the approximately 100 million US homes to get another $17.5 trillion.
So, stocks and homes combined are $35 trillion, approx., and let’s remember a lot of US stocks and real estate are owned by Japanese, European, and Canadian investors, so the net ownership by US residents is even less. Where does Instapundit’s other $25 trillion come from? He doesn’t say, and I can’t guess.
I just wish a little more arithmetic rigour, definition of terms, and identification of sources was the norm here; it would make the arguments more interesting.
Never claimed to be a mathematical genius, just threw the numbers out there as a way of determining how much the government is spending on everybody else’s behalf.
This is why we have intelligent debate … somebody will come up with the correct answer and a fact can be established.
Thanks again to those who noticed and came up with the correct answer. Now we have some idea of what that amount actually means.
Good piece, BUT:
$60 trillion net worth? Didn’t I read somewhere that if you count the total unfunded liabilities of social security, medicare and other entitlements, that US households are, in the aggregate, nearly insolvent.
Government spending stimulating?
I find Barack Obama’s logic and reasoning to be more so… and he has none.
KevinB, your rant at 8:10 would be a little easier to swallow if you hadn’t committed the cardinal error (twice, yet) of attributing the math under discussion to Instapundit, and not to the real author, Instapunk.
So unless you have solid proof that Instapunk is just Instapundit in drag, you are hoist on your own petard.
The facts all come out in the end.
Kyla 7:05 I agree with you. What are the names of the owners of the Federal Reserve?
Gordinkneehill:
You are of course, correct. My apologies. All I’ll say in my defense is I’ve never heard of Instapunk before, Instapundit is quoted here quite often, and when I went to the piece, I didn’t read the masthead (whose font, you must admit, is a bit bizarre), but immediately scrolled down to the essay. But you’re right – I should have checked.
John, re your 5.25pm – agreement on one issue does not mean their thinking is similar.
Hitler liked Wagner. Should I refer to all those who like Wagner as possessing the sensibilities of Hitler?
KevinB – “So, stocks and homes combined are $35 trillion… Where does [the] other $25 trillion come from?”
Private equity.
democrats in favour of higher taxes as long as THEY dont have to pay them
http://www.newsmax.com/kessler/al_franken_taxes/2009/02/06/179148.html
CRAZY!
Some highlights of the package according to USA Today and WSJ:
$544 billion in new spending
$125 billion for public education including $20 billion for school renovations and $79 billion to avoid education related layoffs
$87 billion for Medicaid
$30 billion goes to road projects
$27 billion to continue unemployment insurance benefits
$20 billion for food stamps
$8 billion for renewable energies
$7 billion for modernizing federal buildings
$6 billion for mass transit
$5 billion for the construction and repair of public housing
$4 billion for community activist programs such as ACORN
$2 billion for child care subsidies
$650 million for coupons for digital TV conversions
$400 million for global warming research
$335 million for STD prevention
$50 million for National Endowment of the Arts
• Republicans pushed the Democrats into dropping money for family planning and restoration of the National Mall
• The WSJ estimates that just 12% of the package could be considered a growth stimulus
$275 billion in new tax cuts
$145 billion: Tax cuts for 95% of working Americans, $500 for individuals, $1000 for couples and small business for 2 years
$23 billion: $1000 per child tax credit
$20 billion for company equipment write offs
$16 billion in “green” tax credits
$10 billion: $2500 credit for college
$6.9 billion for homeowner tax credits
Let’s all give a cheer for the original believer in “stimulus”, the failed ex-NDP premier of Ontario, our newly feckless and failed liberal leader candidate, Bob Rae. Back in the early nineties, Bob Rae thought it best to attempt to “spend Ontario’s way out of recession”, being a Rhodes Scholar and all…
Now fast forward to 2009 and Barack Obama is following the economic stimulus theory of Bob Rae, which did not work in Ontario in the nineties. This sorry attempt to kick start the economy will also fail in the USA under Obama. When Bob Rae’s brand of “stimulus” is your economic inspiration, there is absolutely no good to come from that decision.
Is there anything that Obama can do?
Property taxes here in B.C. are calculated on the value of sales of similar properties over the previous year. The actual Tax is based on a ‘mill rate’ multiplier. Prices go up; taxes go up, in theory anyway. The catch 22 is now that prices are dropping like a stone, taxes should also be…but Municipal Gov’ts have already done their budgets and allocated their Property Tax revenue. Real Estate values here will easily be down by 20%. If that translates into a 20% drop in taxes, a lot of towns/cities are going to be in deep sh*t. They’ve been spending like the party would never end, up till now that is.
60 trillion before or after the markets – including real estate – crashed? When japan was at its peak it was calculated that one city block in Tokyo was worth more than all of cdas real esate combined. The nikkei is barely one third what is was then twenty years later. Will the US and other economies wallow in economic doldrums in the same way?
The one tax holiday is folly. Yes the economy would boom but there would the an end of the world chaos to it as we counted down to the end of the year and the economy crashed as it faced a huge (infinite percent) tax hike. Better to have large permanent cuts to capital gains taxes and vat and income taxes so as to lower breakeven points on investments.
The point so many seem to be missing is that our own insecurity doubt, and fear of loss, is like a gas fueling this economic bonfire.
Just how do we build up the confidence?
North Americans don’t have an immediate threat to rally around. It is scary to think of, but if we faced a bigger loss than money, people would get their fears focused on it rather than their bank accounts. In 1940 Canadians rallied around the threat Hitler posed to freedom.
Is there a way to focus the masses on something bigger, something outside of their own lives, that might make them realize that the moments that make up a person’s life are fleeting. Perhaps then they might want to live to the fullest…
That’s what they are discussing on blogs at http://www.womenspost.ca
— Screech
Kind of makes a person wonder why these people can look themselves in the mirror.
Stimulus? Try an agenda. This is pathetic. Here’s a link to the CNN page (sorry but, it shows what was cut, yet waste still remains)
There is no doubt in my mind that this so called ‘stimulus’ will be a failure, given what is in this package, and considering what was cut. This isn’t job creation, it’s the leftard agenda.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/07/stimulus.cuts/index.html
Partially cut:
• $3.5 billion for energy-efficient federal buildings (original bill $7 billion)
• $75 million from Smithsonian (original bill $150 million)
• $200 million from Environmental Protection Agency Superfund (original bill $800 million)
• $100 million from National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (original bill $427 million)
• $100 million from law enforcement wireless (original bill $200 million)
• $300 million from federal fleet of hybrid vehicles (original bill $600 million)
• $100 million from FBI construction (original bill $400 million)
Fully eliminated
• $55 million for historic preservation
• $122 million for Coast Guard polar icebreaker/cutters
• $100 million for Farm Service Agency modernization
Don’t Miss
* Vote expected Tuesday on stimulus after bipartisan deal
* Obama fires up House Democrats for stimulus bill
• $50 million for Cooperative State Research, Education and Extension Service
• $65 million for watershed rehabilitation
• $100 million for distance learning
• $98 million for school nutrition
• $50 million for aquaculture
• $2 billion for broadband
• $100 million for National Institute of Standards and Technology
• $50 million for detention trustee
• $25 million for Marshalls Construction
• $300 million for federal prisons
• $300 million for BYRNE Formula grant program
• $140 million for BYRNE Competitive grant program
• $10 million state and local law enforcement
• $50 million for NASA
• $50 million for aeronautics
• $50 million for exploration
• $50 million for Cross Agency Support
• $200 million for National Science Foundation
• $100 million for science
• $1 billion for Energy Loan Guarantees
• $4.5 billion for General Services Administration
• $89 million General Services Administration operations
• $50 million from Department of Homeland Security
• $200 million Transportation Security Administration
• $122 million for Coast Guard Cutters, modifies use
• $25 million for Fish and Wildlife
• $55 million for historic preservation
• $20 million for working capital fund
• $165 million for Forest Service capital improvement
• $90 million for State and Private Wildlife Fire Management
• $1 billion for Head Start/Early Start
• $5.8 billion for Health Prevention Activity
• $2 billion for Health Information Technology Grants
• $600 million for Title I (No Child Left Behind)
• $16 billion for school construction
• $3.5 billion for higher education construction
• $1.25 billion for project based rental
• $2.25 billion for Neighborhood Stabilization
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• $1.2 billion for retrofitting Project 8 housing
• $40 billion for state fiscal stabilization (includes $7.5 billion of state incentive grants)
Okay Dan you have a lot of numbers there, but the economic meltdown is no longer a rational situation.
The fact is that the masses are acting in fear. I’m not going to steal her words but publisher Sarah Thomson at http://www.womenspost.ca writes that propaganda may be the only way to circumvent the wave of fear that has investors, bankers and joe public hiding their cash.
Screecher:
Just what we need joeseph Goebbels.
What we need is confidence and certainty. Confidence that our politicians know what they are doing. And certainty that the systems that we operate our businesses under can be relied upon – things like interest and tax rates and regulation. The BO/pelosi/Reid package does none of it and fact they make a bad situation much worse. Fer chrissake they put barney frank – one of the main culprits in creating the mess that is fannie MAE and freddie mac – in charge of commerce – a guy who thinks ALL executives wages should be capped.
Have no fear – the gov’ts of the world are making a concerted effort to double the number of dollars we all have. And provide lots of spending power. Its just around the corner.
How ? Simple. Devalue the inky paper by printing more of it and then give it to the banks to loan out. (see money Mischief by Milton Friedman
Currency is just like any other commodity. As with oil, wheat, copper or what have you – increase the supply and down comes the value. Even small increases in supply can trigger huge price declines. (think oil last year and the inflation ravaged Trudeau buck)
Anyone know how countries such as Brazil were able to make everyone rich at the flick of a pen ? And trigger 60% inflation ? Per month !! (That made them poor again)
Anybody care to guess at how long the economic malaise is going to last?