85 Replies to ““Finally, the photos are starting to leak out.””

  1. “…The extent of injuries to the crew is unknown, for there has been a news blackout in the major media in France and elsewhere. Coverage of the story was deemed insulting to Moslem Arabs…”
    Rhetorical question: Who is more pathetic, the Arab flight crew or the French MSM moguls who blacked out the story so as to not offend Muslims?

  2. I am trying to think of a senerio where Canadians would be put in a situation to fail at a task like that……….

  3. From the look of the cockpit, it seems unlikely that any of the crew survived. Didn’t they realize they were supposed to take before crashing into something? “No virgins for you!”

  4. Maybe it is better that Arabs stay away from planes as their track record lately is a tad spotty.
    Maybe some ‘ships of the desert’ (camels) might be more their style.
    At least when planes went down in my family, we were being shot at.
    It isn’t insulting to Moslem Arabs, just em-bare-assing.
    An $80 million dollar aircraft and the crew don’t get a demo ride? I wonder who has the insurance contract on this fiasco?
    Cheers
    Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht
    Commander in Chief
    1st Saint Nicolaas Army
    Army Group “True North”

  6. I believe the A380 is the largest passenger airliner, not the Airbus 340-600 as stated in the article.

  7. “Not one member of the seven-man Arab crew was smart enough to throttle back the engines…”
    Smart has nothing to do with it. They were poorly trained.
    The news blackout was indeed dumb however.

  8. this brings new meaning to “terminally stupid”…i’m laughing my ass off…when it comes to arab flight crews, never fly higher than your willing to fall.

  9. It feels like I’ve stumbled across a KKK meeting.
    What are we basing the legitimacy of this “news blackout” on? Apart from the author who came up with this gem: “Not one member of the seven-man Arab crew was smart enough to throttle back the engines from their max power setting”.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7098547.stm
    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,517772,00.html
    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22768585-12377,00.html
    http://www.enjoyfrance.com/content/view/1128/36/
    http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,26058,22768585-27977,00.html
    http://asifiqbal.com/2007/11/22/etihad-airbus-crash-in-france-images/
    Theres 5 links, all with pictures, one with a multitude of them, all released within a week of November 15th, 2007 (the date of the crash). First page of the google search “airbus crash france”.
    If anyone cares, “In all 10 people were injured and four people were taken to hospital, three of whom were in serious conditions, they said.”
    Some news blackout.

  10. Sounds like the proper respect for the activity at hand wasn’t being observed. A little bit of fear is a good thing sometimes, it prevents fatal mistakes. I don’t for a second think this has a lot to do with the ethnicity of the flight crew to be honest. Stupid knows no ethnic boundary.
    On the other hand, covering this incident up is an entirely strange thing to do, and it speaks to the fear in the French media.

  12. Hold Fire! Canadian Airlines did the identical thing to a Canadian Forces CC-150 Polaris (read Airbus 310) at Vancouver many years ago. Airline Technicians failed to follow check lists and pulled circuit breakers resulting in the aircraft jumping the chocks and plowing into a maintenance shed. The aircraft was seriously damaged and had to be flown to Germany with the gear locked down for some major repairs. That added to our carbon footprint.

  13. jeff k.
    “I am trying to think of a senerio where Canadians would be put in a situation to fail at a task like that……….”
    see sabre 0’s post above and also read-up on this incident: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider
    – something just as bad as today’s incident 100% due to CDN poor training.

  15. and then there were thee Iranians whom had Tomcats (F-14) and were not all that good in them. Guess all those virgins to be fog the brain!!

  17. “It feels like I’ve stumbled across a KKK meeting.”
    I think you’re on the wrong side of the political aisle. The KKK was an institution of the Democrats.

  18. “It feels like I’ve stumbled across a KKK meeting.”
    I think you’re on the wrong side of the political aisle. The KKK was an institution of the Democrats.
    I was referring to the racist tone of the (laughably inaccurate) article, and the accompanying thread, not the political affiliation of anyone involved.
    I think you knew that though. 🙂

  19. Kate:
    While the KKK was populated by democrats they were dixiecrats – the most conservative part of the US during their time. Had Lincoln been a democrat they would have been republican.
    The current KKK is primarily GOP supporting – if David Duke is anything to go by. Most of the Dixiecrats moved over to the GOP by way of George Wallace and Richard Nixon.
    I think it’s a reasonable to say that KKK members would be more agreeable with the opinions expressed on this site by both you and us posters than they would on left-wing democrat-supporting sites like Huffpo and KOS.
    That said, the dogmatic, unsubstantiated vitriolic style of Huffpo, KOS et al is right up the old KKK’s alley. The far-left is the KKK – of our era.

  20. This is not about idiots who can’t fly.Nor the crash itself. This happens all over the world no doubt. Its all about the ban folks. The ban! More Dhiminization continues fermenting in Eurabia.

  21. Its all about the ban folks. The ban! More Dhiminization continues fermenting in Eurabia.
    There was no ban. OK? Try to keep up now.

  23. Most of the Dixiecrats moved over to the GOP by way of George Wallace and Richard Nixon.

    What? Wallace was a life-long Democrat and Nixon was never one. Wallace was open in his racism (until he repented) and Nixon kept any racist views he may have had private. The only reason the Klan types switched parties is because the Democrats were taken over by even bigger screw-balls and started promoting radicalist positions.

  24. We’re all for multiculturalism, but, strangely, when it comes to the flight of an aircraft, we all suddenly revert to a narrow, euro-centric, lock-step belief in the laws of physics as discovered and developed by the West.

  25. Thank you, Samuel, from providing some critical legwork to counter the rabid, self-indulgent commentary flowing from yet another of Kate’s uninformed, misleading, and prejudicial posts.
    For those who think that the media blackout applied only to the French MSM:
    – 3w.lefigaro.fr/actualites/2007/11/15/01001-20071115ARTFIG00273-un-airbus-percute-un-parapet-a-toulouse.php
    – 3w.lemonde.fr/web/recherche_breve/1,13-0,37-1013392,0.html
    For those who think that the failure to report the extent of injury to the test-crew constitutes a media blackout, the fact is, nobody knew at the time. By the 17th, Etihad Airlines itself released a news release reporting no serious injury.

  26. Yeah, the story is –ist; not “racist”, precisely, but it definitely lumps Arabs together. That being said, I’d give long odds that Hans is correct for the wrong reasons — that the crew were offered a check ride and instruction, and waved it off: “We are experts, we’ll take it from here.” This is not by any means an attitude restricted to Arabs.
    In fact, it points up a similar attitude which results in one of the most striking, though least evident to the nonexpert, features of Airbus aircraft, which is that the flight crew on an Airbus is mostly decorative. As on most modern aircraft, the “controls” are merely computer inputs; Airbus’s philosophy is that its engineers and programmers know better than mere pilots, so the computer will ignore or override control inputs whenever the program’s decisions disagree with the pilot’s. It is that philosophy, combined with the inability of any human agency to think of everything beforehand, that caused the crash — the procedure the crew used was foolish and wasteful, but wouldn’t have caused a disaster in an aircraft with its brake pedals connected directly to the brakes, or likely a Boeing, which is designed from the reverse philosophy, i.e., that the pilot probably knows more than the programmer.
    Specifically: the computer released the brakes because it had no ground-proximity signal, but did not check to see if the ground-proximity detector was working before doing so. If I were the Emir, I would refuse to pay for the plane on the ground that that constitutes negligence on the part of Airbus Industrie.
    Regards,
    Ric

  27. An Airbus A340-x00 is fly-by-wire… meaning, everything is computer. Plus, the power-to-weight ratio is ridiculous. Here’s a sanitized version of what a Chinese A340 did at Anchorage (The versions I heard are much more fun):
    China Airlines Flight 011 was parked at the Anchorage International Airport’s north terminal, gate N4. At 02:21, the first officer contacted Anchorage Air Traffic Control Tower (ATCT) clearance delivery and stated: “Dynasty 011 heavy, clearance, flight level 320 to Taipei, information Juliet, Bay N4.” The clearance delivery controller stated: “Dynasty 011 Heavy, cleared to the Taipei Airport via Anchorage Three Departure, then as filed. Climb and maintain flight level 200, departure frequency will be 118.6, squawk 4032.” At 02:24, the first officer contacted ground control, advising the controller that they were ready for their push-back from gate N4. The ground controller responded by stating: “Dynasty 011 heavy, Anchorage ground, good morning sir, push back is approved, plan runway 32 for departure.”, which was acknowledged. After reporting ready for taxi at 02:32 the local controller stated: “Dynasty 011 heavy, taxi runway 32 at Kilo, taxi via Mike, Romeo, Kilo.” The incident airplane then began to taxi away from the N4 gate, turning south on taxiway Romeo. The airplane proceeded southbound on taxiway Romeo, and made a right turn from Romeo onto taxiway Kilo. At 02:40:06, as the airplane was southbound on taxiway Romeo, preparing to turn right onto taxiway Kilo the controller stated: “Dynasty 011 heavy, wind 360 at seven, runway 32 at Kilo, cleared for takeoff.” The first officer responded by stating: “Cleared for takeoff, 32, Kilo, Dynasty 011 heavy.” After turning right onto Kilo, the airplane stopped. The airplane was expected by the ATCT local controller to continue west on Kilo into the extended portion of runway 32, and then turn right (north) onto the approach end of runway 32. Instead, at 02:42:10, the airplane began accelerating west on taxiway Kilo. The available taxiway distance from Romeo to the end of Kilo is about 6,800 feet. After departure, main landing gear tire impressions were found in a snow berm at the end of taxiway Kilo. The airplane proceeded to Taipei and landed without incident.
    So yeah — an A340 departed from a taxiway. Now, don’t tell Transport Canada this, but I’ve departed ultralights and even an ocasional Beaver or Otter from a taxiway, but not a heavy.

  28. Ric’s right, the news blackout if it really existed was probably meant to protect embattled Airbus NOT the crew. (eg the A380 not selling as well as hoped, the A400M not on schedule)

  29. I visited all links provided by Samuel, and one thing keeps coming back`; “unknown cause”
    First link; “…The cause of the crash remains unclear.”
    Second link ; “…the plane lurched into the barrier and wall “for reasons still unknown.”
    Third link; “…For an unknown reason the aircraft began to roll and it climbed up the embankment in front of it,”
    Fourth link; “…and the cause of the crash remains undetermined at present.”
    Fifth link; “…For an unknown reason the aircraft began to roll and it climbed up the embankment in front of it,”
    …
    Either this is a partial “news black out” as they are trying to hide the fact some idiot took out an alarm fuse and caused the accident, or the guy at to the point news has too much imagination.
    …
    And about the 340-360 not being the largest plane, it is true but it is the longest in the world,
    “…The A340-600 model is the longest passenger aircraft in the world, seating up to 472 passengers. Seventy-four are currently in operation — mainly in the fleets of Lufthansa, Virgin Atlantic and Emirates.”
    …
    The sixth link has only one line of text but 7 photos.
    …
    I have way too much time on my hands!!!

  30. It is difficult to see what purpose is served by repeatedly pointing out that the crew was Arab. I don’t recall a single reference to the colour of the skin of either of the crews involved in the accident at Tenerife, and why would there be? What could be less relevant?
    Now, if the French did indeed suppress the details in order to avoid giving offence to Muslims, that’s the real story here.

  31. So. Samuel. Buddy. Reality check time, m’kay?
    We don’t even know a casualty count yet.
    Checking reality, If a FRENCH aircrew crashed a brand new Boeing 747-400 through gross, stunning incompetence (they pulled the alarm breaker?!!!) at an American airport, would still pictures of the accident be dribbling out in ones and twos on the internet a week later?
    Or, would we have been treated to wall-to-wall four network coverage with live helicopter cams and breathless infobabes repeating the same information breathlessly every 40 seconds?
    So when an Arab crew screws up by the friggin’ numbers with such spectacular results, and we don’t hear nuttin’, one might suspect an “arrangement” was made, possibly a golden handshake or two with the big MSM weenies in France. Media circuses are put on for money, I can’t see those guys passing one up without some quid-pro-quo somewhere.
    Now, as to the reasons for the arrangement I find it likely that the Arab airline in question might have made some golden requests for silence, as well as Airbus. Having one of your brand new planes busted up on TV looks bad, eh?
    What impresses me here is the power -somebody- has to shut these media guys up. This is a huge, spectacular, made for TV incident. Dead bodies, crushed metal, holy smokes Batman! And the French media says NOTHING. Now that’s power.
    So Sammy, baby. The next time you think the media is pure and unbiased, just think of every reporter in Paris NOT covering a whole crashed airliner, and what it would take to do that on purpose.

  32. Uuuuh – dad? I had a little mishap with the car. Put a few scratches on it. Ya, I know its a Rolls – sorry. I’m grounded for HOW long?!?!

  33. Friend of USA: “Either this is a partial “news black out” as they are trying to hide the fact some idiot took out an alarm fuse and caused the accident, or the guy at to the point news has too much imagination.”
    I’m leaning towards that second option, since the TTPN story doesn’t actually contain any sources.
    Keep in mind that the news reports began flowing the morning after the incident. It seems very likely that, at the time, it was really the case that nobody knew with reasonable certainty what had happened. By way of comparison, the cause of the Air France crash at Toronto’s Pearson Airport a few years ago likewise remained unknown for several weeks until an investigation was conducted.
    FYI: French authorities launched a similar investigation the following day, which is standard protocol with aviation incidents of this sort. If you really have time on your hands, you may want to track down that final report.

  35. My point, above, is that embarrassment for Arabs is not necessarily the only explanation. Airbus Industrie has a dog in that fight, too.
    Some of you may recall the Airbus that crashed at an air show some years ago. The cause of that incident has been declared to be “pilot error”, which is correct as far as it goes — the pilot got the airplane “behind the curve”, into a flight regime where it didn’t have the oomph to recover. What they do not tell you, except ‘way down in the small-print footnotes, is that the computer on that airplane overrode the pilot. It reconfigured the aerodynamics of the plane in such a way as to reduce lift and power at a critical moment. There is no guarantee that the pilot could have recovered if that hadn’t happened, but the computer’s actions turned a very fraught situation into one in which recovery wasn’t possible even in principle.
    There have been a number of Airbus crashes where that sort of thing contributed (at minimum) to the problem. Pilots know it, and are trained to keep Airbuses well within the Book’s recommendations, in the knowledge that if they do not the airplane will actively try to kill them. Understandably, Airbus doesn’t care to publicize that, and has the full weight of the French Government behind them to help suppress it.
    Disallowing brakes while airborne is a purely economic decision. If the brakes are on before touchdown, the sudden jolt is virtually certain to cause expen$ive damage to the landing gear and its attachment structures, and the policy is designed to avoid that — which makes the bean-counters happy as Hell. Unfortunately that is also predicated on the airplane always operating out of well-maintained airports with long runways. If an A340 ever has to land at a short field in an emergency, that decision is going to kill people.
    Regards,
    Ric

  36. The Phantom: “Reality check time, m’kay? We don’t even know a casualty count yet.”
    Yes, we do. Ten injured, three seriously, five hospitalized, no deaths. You do realize this crash happened back in Nov 2007, don’t you?
    “…would still pictures of the accident be dribbling out in ones and twos on the internet a week later?”
    Actually, still pictures and video footage began ‘dribbling out’ the same evening the incident occurred. Just because you didn’t hear about it doesn’t mean it was deliberately kept from you.
    “I find it likely that the Arab airline in question might have made some golden requests for silence, as well as Airbus.”
    Actually, Etihad released multiple press releases–press releases!–in the days following the incident. Airbus held a press conference immediately after the crash. Odd way of requesting a media blackout, don’t you think?
    “The next time you think the media is pure and unbiased, just think of every reporter in Paris NOT covering a whole crashed airliner, and what it would take to do that on purpose.”
    Actually, the story was well-covered by the French national media, including both the right-of-centre Le Figaro and the left-of-centre Le Monde. In addition, it was covered by the Toulouse regional press, such as the La Depeche du Midi, and the international media, including video from AP. It was even mentioned in the Ottawa Citizen and the Calgary Herald. Indeed, the French state government issued a press release immediately following the incident.
    You are truly a moron.

  37. Yep I think the the real story is the French Media!
    This is hardly the only incident that should have been well documented and reported that saw little action. The French government has been involved in some curious interference over the last few years.
    – A ban on citizens not certified as press taking pictures of incidents … criminalizing what is common in north America.
    – A defacto ban on the use of the term Islamofascist or even mentioning that Arabs or Muslims are involved in incidents
    – Allowing the state run TV network to fabricate stories
    – Allowing the State run TV Network to sue a person who factually reported and documented the fabrication
    That being one part of this story .. the other being Dr. Wheeler’s assumptions.
    Regardless of the flight crews background what they did .. their actions speak for the record.
    Consequences!
    Oh … BTW when that French airliner crashed at Pearson … the French DID try to quash the reporting. First by claiming that their was NO proof their pilots were at fault (they were) then by insisting that French investigators lead the investigation and manage the reporting rather than the Canadian authorities. They DID suppress information about the investigation and the subsequent report was delayed for a long time.
    Providing an opportunity to deflect public attention from the failure of the French airline and it’s crew.

  38. I remember seeing footage of an airbus (not sure which one) in France trying to take off and the fly-by-wire system thought the plane should be landing and was fighting the pilot who couldn’t over-ride the system. The plane crashed in a forest and you heard the pilot on the tapes cursing all the way down…
    After that incident, the pilot was given an over-ride.
    Consequently Gord, David Duke ran as both Dem and GOP at various times including an ’88 run for Democratic presidential nomination. Duke is a non-partisan racist scumbag.
    Given how Obama is polling in the White Democratic voting demographic in the US south, the non-partisan nature of racism is alive and well (not that lack of support for Obama necessarily means racism – there are endless reasons not to support a communist who hangs around terrorists and black racists.)

  39. Speaking of aeroplanes and the like, does anyone know of anything of major significance that the Arab world has invented in the last 100 years that has improved the lives of others?
    This thought always crosses my mind when I see them using technology invented by the West.

  40. I have to agree that stupidity cuts across all ethnic lines. From the “Gimli glider” to the the Russian pilot handing the controls of an airliner over to his (seven?) year old son, people do some mighty stupid things. I watched a TV show which discussed some of the Airbus incidents including the A 310 flown smoothly into the ground. Computer geeks thinking they’re smarter than, and therefore second guessing pilots is never a good idea. That being said, when all else fails, read the directions!
    Closer to home, while looking at new cars, I test drove one which had no emergency brake. I asked the salesman what I should do if the brakes failed. He had no answer but assured me that the car was so well engineered that the brakes would certainly not fail. I explained to him what I did for a living and pointed out that I worked on the assumption that anything could and would fail at some point. He got the chief technician and after some head scratching and discussion we tested the car in the parking lot and used the parking brake switch to make an emergency stop. It was the first time anyone had even raised the issue!

  41. QE said: “Actually, the story was well-covered by the French national media…”
    Sure it was QE. But when? Day of, or week after, or what? Details given, or whitewash? Pictures? Video?
    Do you speak French, QE, to know these things? I’m thinking probably not.
    What I’m thinking is that the Arab crew, if they -did- do what’s described in the article, would have been just fine flying a -manual- aircraft. As in, one where the pilot decides when the brakes are on or off, not a computer.
    Meaning they were obviously trained to fly standard aircraft, and just as obviously NOT trained on the fly-by-wire Airbus. Testing an aircraft you aren’t trained on is friggin’ horrifying incompetence, I don’t care what anybody says. Incompetence is not limited to Arabs, so spare me the racist business.
    You say the airline and Airbus held press conferences right after the accident? No duh.
    What was SAID in the press conference? Did they tell you the dumb ass pilot didn’t know the brakes would shut off if he killed the alarm? Did they tell you the COMPUTER decides when the brakes are on, not the pilot? I don’t have to speak French to guess that they sure as hell did not.
    What I do know for sure is that TV and print coverage of this incident has been very quiet compared to similar ones elsewhere in the world. I’m interested in airplanes and this is the first I’ve heard of it.
    I attribute that level of media quiet to probable action by the French authorities who have a large interest in seeing Airbus do well. Somebody told the press to shut up, and they did. Wouldn’t be the first time with Airbus either, as noted by other posters above.
    So bite me, you ill mannered communist.

  42. BTW, QE. They would have known the reason for the crash as soon as they ran the black box data. Given the condition of the aircraft in the pictures, they would have been able to access the box and get the download as soon as the firemen put their hoses away. Two hours, maximum.
    Meaning, moron, if the evening news didn’t say “Untrained pilot crashes plane!” but instead said “Cause is under investigation” somebody decided to with hold the information and the press didn’t bother to make a fuss.

  43. “Speaking of aeroplanes and the like, does anyone know of anything of major significance that the Arab world has invented in the last 100 years that has improved the lives of others?
    This thought always crosses my mind when I see them using technology invented by the West.”
    I think that would be the hookah.
    And to the preachy commenters here such as QE and Samuel … You girls talk as though you know how to develop cold fusion and solve all our problems. In reality, you did a few Google searches and claim brilliance.
    What you really have is vile contempt for SDA and it’s regulars. You are here enjoying the HATE experience by trying to belittle others with whom you disagree. That is the mark of a far left hater. You both qualify. You are both out of place here.
    And QE … the Phantom is a very clever person and very entertaining as well. He has great humor. That is something that is severely lacking on your side of the barricade. He definitely not a moron and you should be ashamed for your name-calling. But then, that is the first refuge of the Leftist mind with no good argument.
    The next step is to get power and kill all those you disagree with. Isn’t that how is has gone in most of the countries with the far left agenda?

  44. Dr. D:
    Agreed, stupidity is a human trait for which there is no foolproof antidote.
    I’m not sure if the Charter of Rights guarantors the right to be stupid when others lives are at stake.
    But at least when you kick a camel you know the creature is going to respond; by perhaps spitting at you!.
    This is unlike some etched in stone computer program, which doesn’t respond to human override.
    GIGO: Garbage In, Garbage Out
    Cheers
    Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht
    Commander in Chief
    1st Saint Nicolaas Army
    Army Group “True North”

  45. Samuel obviously keeps an eye eye on this site and when there is something to critisize sweeps in.
    Thats the lefts biggest skill.

  46. John V, thank you for your kind words. I appreciate it.
    And now, I really must stop playing computer and go build some stairs. Burning daylight!

  47. A pilot friend of mine was lamenting about the level of screening he gets before he boards his plane for flight. LOL they take his nail clippers but he’s got a farking axe in the cockpit.

  48. Gord Tulk
    Most left wing people I meet are really closest racists /discrimination types. They profess a outward looking view but are generally unable to cope with daily conflicts caused by cultural differences. I think the main issue is the utter “righteousness” of left wingers that makes it impossible to accept other person views as correct. Having a wife from a culture and background that is quite different has been an eye-opener in this sense. Political Correctness is purely camouflage, people who are politically incorrect are generally sincere and open about their views and easier to deal with.
    The comments attached to the blog, were generally silly, but some where very close to the truth. Some poster made an ass of themselves by failing to realize the majority of Iranians are not Arabs. Even during the glory days of the Caliphate most of the Arab achievements were done by foreigners, either Greek or Persian. The major contribution of the Arabs was their poetry, which does not translate well.
    The hard core reality is that present day Arab culture does not encourage critical or individual thinking, there are people trying to change this, but until you break the strangle hold of conservative Islam and Tribalism, it will be an uphill battle.

  49. Personally, I think this story from beginning to end is hilarious. It is so typically a ‘male’ thing. So blatantly stupid. (I watch FHV so am prejudiced.)
    Is there a man in any country of the world whose wife has not told him: Read the manual first.
    To paraphrase Professor Higgins: Why can’t a man be more like a woman?
    Bet there are millions of Arab women laughing themselves silly (beneath protection, of course).
    (I’m sorry for those injured, natch. Wouldn’t want Sammy to think I’m one of the unfeeling crowd on here.)

  50. The mistake was on the part of the aircraft designers, not the pilots, Arabs or not. Google poka-yoke. One of the seminal cases in the field was the battle of britain pilots returning from heroics and raising their landing gear just before touching down, wrecking a plane that was desperately needed. How could someone so qualified do something so stupid? Pilot error was written on all the reports. Turns out the lever for raising the gear was right beside the lever for the flaps, and looked exactly the same. When they changed that the problem went away.
    I think Airbus is, and should be, more embarrased about this than the Dar el Islam. How hard is it to write a few lines of code that checks that the plane is actually in the air?

Proudly powered by WordPress & Skyrocket Themes

MENU

Navigation