Sept.14 – Toronto Star identifies the person responsible as Kimveer Gill, a Columbine copycat. Via Bourque, a link to his page at Vampirefreaks.com. That page may not last long, (in case someone is motivated to save the source code and photos.)
(Sept.13 entry continues below)
Reports are coming in on multiple shootings at Dawson College in Montreal.
From radio, much of it unconfirmed: multiple wounded, including a police officer, and multiple armed suspects are still in the building. Hundreds of students have been successfully evacuated, but many others are still in the building.
CKOM has the live feed. (click the “listen live” link)
CTV has an early report.
Updates:
There are as many as four armed assailants and they’re thought to be still in the building. Phone networks are overloaded – (my guess is that you should refrain from calling friends or family in Montreal at the moment).
Shots are still being fired, and a number of students have barricaded themselves inside the building. Police have reported one suspect has been “neutralized”.
Now reporting two are down – one by police, another may have committed suicide. One student is believed to be dead, others have been taken to Montreal General.
A witness has described one of the gunmen as dressed in black, with a cape and black boots. Other reports of another in fatigues, but it’s uncertain whether that may have been a member of law enforcement.
CBC is reporting 4 dead, 16 injured. Needless to say, there are a lot of conflicting reports flying around at the moment.
Unbelievable – CBC’s Don Newman just asked BQ leader Gilles Duceppe if he thought there was a “political reason” behind the shootings. This before the scene is secured, the number of assailants confirmed or their identities known.
Do these people go out of their way to look like idiots or does it just come naturally?
Just in from a police briefing: 10 injuries, from minor to severe. No deaths confirmed. They are searching the building door to door, and most have been evacuated.
From the comments:
Posted by: bryceman at September 13, 2006 03:36 PM “Well, from the claims of the building being just about cleared, it would seem that they think it is almost over. But, I was just downstairs in my building and they are presently sealing up access to the metro. Doesn’t look like they think it’s over.”
Newer reports put critically injured at 8.
Via news conference: One gunman, who was killed by police, all the victims are alive, though 6 are in critical condition.
Unless something new breaks, this will conclude the updates here.
It’s horrible what this crazy kid did.
Deepest sympathies.
As an American it’s not my place to discuss here what Canada should do in response to this event.
I leave that to Canadians.
As an American I feel I need to correct pertinent misperceptions created the vile Michael Moore.
Just an FYI
Follow this link to find 9 school shootings in Canada before Columbine.
http://tinyurl.com/fs28z
The Columbine High School shootings occurred on Tuesday, April 20, 1999.
Twelve students and a teacher were killed.
There were 24 wounded.
The 2 shooters were also killed.
May 1975: Michael Slobodian, 16, kills teacher and student and wounds 13 others at Centennial Secondary School in Brampton, Ont., before turning gun on himself.
October 1978: 17-year-old student shoots 16-year-old to death at Sturgeon Creek Regional Secondary School in Winnipeg.
December 1989: Marc Lepine, 25, shoots dead 14 women at University of Montreal’s Ecole Polytechnique engineering school, then kills himself.
My point is not to get into a CANADA/US spitball fight.
It’s that I hate propagandists and their impact.
Like Candace, my heart and prayers go out to the victims of yesterday’s tragedy at Dawson College
and their families.
Yesterday morning began as a normal day for these kids and their parents and changed forever a little after 1:00 p.m. These shootings are a parent’s worst nightmare. The minute I heard about them, I thought immediately of my own college-aged daughters and realized that at another place, another time, it could have been them.
It’s when you begin to imagine one of your own children as one of the wounded or dead that it seems to really hit home.
I have a question: Who is the guy who did it? What’s his story? When you look at the boys involved in the Columbine shooting, they both came from outwardly stable two-parent homes. A closer look reveals that they lived in high-end houses with both parents in very successful jobs, BMWs, Mercedes, etc.
The core problem, it seems? No one was home. One mom said that when the boys were working in the garage–making explosives as it turns out–they told her they were working on a science project. If my kids were builing explosives in the garage, my first clue might have been the nitroglycerine they were using. Then I’d make a call to the school to see if using nitroglycerine was acceptable in a science experiment.
Hindsight is 100%, but who was keeping an eye on this killer? Who knew things that probably should have been reported, but they didn’t do it?
We’re seeing more of this type of psychopath and my sense is that it’s in part because there’s very little effective discipline with consequences in our schools or in society, in general. Zero tolerance has led, ironically, to more tolerance of anti-social soiciopathic and psychopathic behaviour, with a tendency to ignore escalating unacceptable behaviours, for fear on the part of “officials” of being seen as too overbearing: teachers, police, and law enforcers fit this category. The same people are afraid of being sued by the deviant/criminal, so far from having “safe schools” or “safe streets,” we have increasing chaos and violence with less vigilance and fewer crackdowns on deviant and dangerous behaviour.
The CBC radio report I just listened to referred to the shootings as “random violence.” This isn’t “random violence.” There are reasons why our young people are turning to violent video and computer games and guns, and we need to get serious about identifying what the problems are and finding effective solutions.
As a society we’re going to have to decide whether “tolerance” and “openness” extend to psychopathic/sociopathic and homicidal behaviours in our young people, often related to parental neglect, or whether we’re going to be on the lookout for it and actively intervene before more shootings in public places occur.
We have a choice here. We can either wring our hands and ask “How did this happen?” or we can name the problem–the increasing trend of violent sociopathic/physchopathic behaviours in our young people–and determine to do something about it. It will mean challenging political correctness and what are considered “accpetable” consequences to this kind of behaviour–and what the logical consequences will be if we don’t name the disease and attempt to cut it out.
Several published reports identified the gunman as Kimveer Gill, 25, of Laval, north of Montreal. Police would not confirm the gunman’s identity
This is an ugly incident and the politicos are already trying to paint it as a political problem/outcome. Lunacy.
Having seen only a few videos of the aftermath I was struck most by the seeming lack of anger. Understandably, many were in shock. But the tears and wailing was missing an important element: anger at the creature(s) who perpetrated this assault.
There is a place for righteous outrage and anger, a demand for punishment. Heartening as it may be that Canadian Police went in as fast as they did, imagine what the outcome might have been had the populace not been disarmed. This creep opened fire outside. Any armed citizen could have brought him down right there.
There have been too many incidents of this sort, not because of a “gun culture” but because of a citizenry dependent on the State for its safety. The State can’t do it. The people must.
Enough weeping and “grief counselors”.
This is an ugly incident and the politicos are already trying to paint it as a political problem/outcome. Lunacy.
Having seen only a few videos of the aftermath I was struck most by the seeming lack of anger. Understandably, many were in shock. But the tears and wailing was missing an important element: anger at the creature(s) who perpetrated this assault.
There is a place for righteous outrage and anger, a demand for punishment. Heartening as it may be that Canadian Police went in as fast as they did, imagine what the outcome might have been had the populace not been disarmed. This creep opened fire outside. Any armed citizen could have brought him down right there.
There have been too many incidents of this sort, not because of a “gun culture” but because of a citizenry dependent on the State for its safety. The State can’t do it. The people must.
Enough weeping and “grief counselors”.
This is an ugly incident and the politicos are already trying to paint it as a political problem/outcome. Lunacy.
Having seen only a few videos of the aftermath I was struck most by the seeming lack of anger. Understandably, many were in shock. But the tears and wailing was missing an important element: anger at the creature(s) who perpetrated this assault.
There is a place for righteous outrage and anger, a demand for punishment. Heartening as it may be that Canadian Police went in as fast as they did, imagine what the outcome might have been had the populace not been disarmed. This creep opened fire outside. Any armed citizen could have brought him down right there.
There have been too many incidents of this sort, not because of a “gun culture” but because of a citizenry dependent on the State for its safety. The State can’t do it. The people must.
Enough weeping and “grief counselors”.
Kate, sorry about the multiple posts. Yeesh!
If i remember correctly, the killing in alberta in which a family was wiped out has a tie to this one. The perpetrators in both instances spent time on a website called vampire something ot other.
Maybe the police or some responsible public agency should be monitoring these vampire/Goth sites and doing some investigating into the dangerous kooks doing the postings. It seems unbelievable to me that Kimveer Gill could be posting such hate-filled and threatening rants, with accompanying photos, and have garnered no attention whatsoever.
I agree with benning. Enough, already, with the grief counsellors. Canadians have got to wake up, smell the coffee, get off their butts, and KICK ASS when it comes to this stuff. Kimveer Gill was BAD NEWS, and who was paying attention?
Let the spin begin! Already the MSM is putting spin on this tragic event. Greg Weston via Canoe.ca has the Lepine similarity angle (from his viewpoint): “…an ordinary-looking young white guy from a middle-class family walked into…” What ever happened to Gamil Gharbi from that dysfunctional poor household?
The icing on the cake though is the last paragraph.
“After more than six hours of silence on yesterday’s tragedy, Stephen Harper’s office finally issued a written statement last evening condemning this “cowardly and senseless act of violence.” ”
So PMSH should have said something before he knew that there were 1, 2, 4 shooters, injuring anywhere from 6 to over 20 before escaping via the Metro or whatever. Does he not realize that unlike the MSM, the PM gets the facts before he speaks.
Bourque has a link to Kimveer Gill’s web page at vampirefreaks. Click on view gallery to get the thoughts of this guy.
BTW better hurry I don’t expect the page to be up much longer.
The registry has a perfect track record of not solving or preventing a single incident of gun violence…..as long as everyone is speculating, I will make an educated guess and say this crime was linear with all the others that go unhindered by a duck gun registry.
BTW: For all the delusional cretins that still think am incomplete and error-ridden database of honest people’s duck guns will stop nutters, I will be back here rubbing your stupidity in your face as the facts on this mutt’s access to guns comes out……count on it.
Of course, I have no way of knowing for sure if it is the case here…but I have known 3 “Gill” families in my travels (all unrelated to each other). They were all from India and (maybe coincidentally) all of the Sikh religion.
If this is the case here, it should put an end to the idea of political motivation. Although, I guess that should already be clear by now. But, you never know with some.
Texas said: “Let the spin begin! Already the MSM is putting spin on this tragic event. Greg Weston via Canoe.ca has the Lepine similarity angle (from his viewpoint): “…an ordinary-looking young white guy from a middle-class family walked into…” What ever happened to Gamil Gharbi from that dysfunctional poor household?”
The media are on trial here not the dead nutter we know nothing about….many of them will be in deja vu rapture recalling the heady days when the MSM couls create a national panic and force the government into making costly placedo legislation….ahhhh yes back in the day.
I’m watching to see if the impact of the blogosphere will tame the roaring sensationalism and foamy mouthed partisan spin on the MSM and help the public retain rational perspective.
So far we have the police story that they chased this guy into the school from off the streets where they spotted him carrying a gun in the open….they acted swiftly in neutralizing his threat and saved many lives….this is a glowing reminder to the public that a gun in the right hands saves lives….which is in vast contrast to the dyslexic navel gazing I’m hearing from the MSM….it’s up to the blogospher to clean up this pathetic media act of rolling in blood for fun and profit.
WL Mackenzie Redux if it’s like marc Gharbi will we find out the truth on page 50 of the star 10 years later?
How many other Media outlets knew and hid said information? which is scary to say outlets are worse than the star.
PS We need a goth registry,
“Of course, I have no way of knowing for sure if it is the case here…but I have known 3 ‘Gill’ families in my travels (all unrelated to each other). They were all from India and (maybe coincidentally) all of the Sikh religion.”
“bryceman”:
You are correct.
Though I rather suspect the Sikh connection is entirely immaterial here. The sad truth seems to be that this fellow was clearly disturbed and delusional.
Very tragic.
Yeah, I was a little surprised to read that Greg Weston column this morning, he can be a pretty good columnist sometimes but he was either ignorant or dishonest with that one. It’s pretty obvious Gharbi/Lepine was raised by a brutal wife-beating moslem immigrant from Algeria who programmed him to hate women at an early age. I can even take the analysis further – in 1989 that very confused young man might have explored his “roots” and found that, at the time…
“turmoil in Algeria is encouraging the spread of an international form of Islamism that threatens to polarize rather than unite a divided society. The Islamic Salvation Front emerged from the Oct 1988 street demonstrations with the largest constituency, later establishing itself with an overwhelming victory in the Dec 1991 elections”
He was ahead of his time, he’d be in an Al Qaeda cell today.
Greg Weston via Canoe.ca has the Lepine similarity angle (from his viewpoint): “…an ordinary-looking young white guy from a middle-class family walked into…” What ever happened to Gamil Gharbi from that dysfunctional poor household?”
Not that it makes any differance into this unneccesary tragedy but he looks to be of indian heritage,not white as reported by Weston and the other msm cronies.
JJM:
Yes, absolutely. I don’t think ethnicity or religion has anything at all to do with it. I was really just responding to the assertion being made by some that it was a “white guy”. I was only suggesting that it might not be…but there is still nothing more to the story than a disturbed individual (i.e. nothing political).
Sad and tragic. My heart and prayers go out to the family and friends of the victims. All Canadians I’m sure are shocked and dismayed that this could happen (again) in our country.
Maybe its time to make sure that those dangerous Saskatchewan farmers have their guns, not registered, but confiscated! If we do that then for sure these kind of atrocities in our Montreal universities will never ever happen again.
The first thing that strikes me about Kimveer Gill is his age. He’s 25 – a little old to be doing the Goth gig and high school raging hormones defiance behavior. The Columbine kids were 14, 15, 16 at most. Very strange.
You’ve got to wonder where the rest of his family is in this picture. Where was he keeping his semi-automatic in the house? Another clueless or in denial family?
Gill, who is known to other users on the website as Fatality666, describes himself as Indian, 6-foot-one, who was born in Montreal on July 9, 1981.
Yes to a Goth registry: I wait with baited breath to hear the link to this possible India Shiek conection to Air India. Why do they continue to hide the fact that the murderer of 14 women in Montreal was an Algerian who changed his name. Why did it take so long to identify Gill as a non-white. By the refusal of the media and police to identify him as a non white, those of us with intelligence knew this to be so. Political Correctness is just an excuse to not tell the truth. I am glad our PM waited to comment instead of the crap coming out of the other leaders within minutes of the tradgedy. How about a registry for reporters and commentators who distort the truth.
Update on his gun: in the pictures he is seen holding a Beretta CX4 Storm which is essentially an auto-loading 9mm pistol with a legal carbine length barrel and a pseudo bull-pup styled stock…legal for sale in Canada…/sole purpose would be self defense or law enforcement…the CFC recently banned the 10 round mags these mini choppers use because they are not pinned to restrict capacity to 5 rounds….so the CFC/police treated this gun as a legal unrestricted long gun with an illegal magazine….we are told he had it legally registered.
As a long time handgun owner/comp shooter I can state that this guy was given a free ride as there are damn few of these CX storms out there registered…where the hell was the CFC and the cops ??? they should have been knocking on his door demanding surrender of the magazine ( if unaltered) or demanding surrender of the gun pending compliance…the system let us down again…these gun laws were in place before the registry and they were not enforced and particularly in Quebec….where all the serious nutters seem to get firearms permits from police in spite of obvious backgrounds of instability and violence.
For the particular rifle shown on this wingnut’s page, it would be restricted, the same as a handgun. However, there ARE versions of this rifle with a longer barrel that are considered non-restricted, so they could conceivably be used for hunting small game or varmints (these rifles are chambered in pistol calibres like 9mm Luger and 45 Auto). As to the magazine issue, this shows another aspect of the craziness that pervades these laws; a CX4 magazine (built specifically for that rifle) must, under Canadian law, be blocked or pinned so that it can only take 5 rounds. However, the rifle was built so that it could accept the same magazines as the Beretta 92/96 series of handguns, which are allowed to hold up to 10 shots. So, depending on which of the two identical magazines you have, you are allowed to have either 5 shots or 10 shots.
In Muslim and Islam theology, Azrael is the Angel of Death.
This guys name was Kimveer Gill, and on his website he called himself the “Angel of Death.”
Now , the only way the Government is gonna confiscate my guns is from my cold dead fingers.
This appears to be unreported elsewhere (apologies for length): it is a post in french about Gill from what appears to be a friend, from Dec. 2004. I ran it throught Babelfish to translate it and edited a bit for clarity:
“Thank you. I spent three delirious weeks with Kimveer, who is a Quebecer whose PARENTS (subtle note with the reticent people to integrate the “immigrants of second generation” *) originate in India. We joyously jumped a collective lead to protect us from the oppressive work environment imposed by our temporary colleagues in this marvellous company which manufactures luxury floors.
By leaving the company, I did not even recover one of the gigantic boards intended for the rejects (which are splendid and which couteraient you a tenth of your wages the unit) so much I was in a hurry to leave. Especially for you Kim: (hey, could you get me one of these gigantic boards we moved the other night before leaving?) * An immigrant of second generation is a person who was born in a country but from which the parents were born elsewhere. Of or education and culture of the child generally different (to differing degree) from that of people of the country whose geneology goes up to Noah. Numbers these children are bilingual, certain (as me) are unilingual language of the country where they were born.
But certain reducing heads want to qualify them immigrants (immigrant from where, belly of our mothers?) rather than of citizen of the country, which makes it possible to take a step in direction of – why not, in the best of the cases – expulsion the day or the country votes laws which make it possible to return the immigrants of the country. In the case of Kimveer, although it always lived in Montreal and that all its culture is Quebec (english-speaking, detail ô how much important), that would make it possible to say that it is hindu of second generation. And to treat it as such if a racist government were born. A choice of words fuller of consequences than it does not appear to with it, and which underlines weaknesses of the process of integration (go, say of the two edges, the country and the immigrants).
”
http://216.109.125.130/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&fr=sfp&p=Kimveer+the+destroyer&u=zeugme.canalblog.com/archives/satisfaction_du_visiteur/p10-0.html&w=kimveer+destroyer&d=XbIjkCQ8NTr5&icp=1&.intl=us
I don’t think Gill liked Jews and/or Christians very much, as evidenced by the “Noah” comment.
This appears to be unreported elsewhere (apologies for length): it is a post in french about Gill from what appears to be a friend, from Dec. 2004. I ran it throught Babelfish to translate it and edited a bit for clarity:
“Thank you. I spent three delirious weeks with Kimveer, who is a Quebecer whose PARENTS (subtle note with the reticent people to integrate the “immigrants of second generation” *) originate in India. We joyously jumped a collective lead to protect us from the oppressive work environment imposed by our temporary colleagues in this marvellous company which manufactures luxury floors.
By leaving the company, I did not even recover one of the gigantic boards intended for the rejects (which are splendid and which couteraient you a tenth of your wages the unit) so much I was in a hurry to leave. Especially for you Kim: (hey, could you get me one of these gigantic boards we moved the other night before leaving?) * An immigrant of second generation is a person who was born in a country but from which the parents were born elsewhere. Of or education and culture of the child generally different (to differing degree) from that of people of the country whose geneology goes up to Noah. Numbers these children are bilingual, certain (as me) are unilingual language of the country where they were born.
But certain reducing heads want to qualify them immigrants (immigrant from where, belly of our mothers?) rather than of citizen of the country, which makes it possible to take a step in direction of – why not, in the best of the cases – expulsion the day or the country votes laws which make it possible to return the immigrants of the country. In the case of Kimveer, although it always lived in Montreal and that all its culture is Quebec (english-speaking, detail ô how much important), that would make it possible to say that it is hindu of second generation. And to treat it as such if a racist government were born. A choice of words fuller of consequences than it does not appear to with it, and which underlines weaknesses of the process of integration (go, say of the two edges, the country and the immigrants).
”
216.109.125.130/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&fr=sfp&p=Kimveer+the+destroyer&u=zeugme.canalblog.com/archives/satisfaction_du_visiteur/p10-0.html&w=kimveer+destroyer&d=XbIjkCQ8NTr5&icp=1&.intl=us
I don’t think Gill liked Jews and/or Christians very much, as evidenced by the “Noah” comment.
SDC said: a CX4 magazine (built specifically for that rifle) must, under Canadian law, be blocked or pinned so that it can only take 5 rounds. However, the rifle was built so that it could accept the same magazines as the Beretta 92/96 series of handguns, which are allowed to hold up to 10 shots. So, depending on which of the two identical magazines you have, you are allowed to have either 5 shots or 10 shots.”
The inside scuttlebutt from the CFC was the storm was on its way to going to the prohibited list because of the magazine issue….still with the few of these out there I’m surprised CFC did not send the cops knocking on doors looking for pinned mags and confiscating where the compliance was not there.
Maybe the money the duck gun registry is sucking from police resouces precluded the cops doing this for the CFC….although they were fast enough to jump on section 12(6) handgun owners…at any rate the system to get one of this nutters gun and to revoke his PAL was there and not enforced.
Bob, did you save the original french text? The link is already dead.
The original page was dead prior to me posting from google cache, here is the original text:
http://216.109.125.130/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&fr=sfp&p=Kimveer+the+destroyer&u=zeugme.canalblog.com/archives/satisfaction_du_visiteur/p10-0.html&w=kimveer+destroyer&d=XbIjkCQ8NTr5&icp=1&.intl=us
14 décembre 2004
Kimveer the destroyer
J’espère que vous me pardonnerez ça, mais il ne faut pas oublier ses compagnons de galère :
GO KIMVEER, GO !
Merci.
J’ai passé trois semaines délirantes avec Kimveer, qui est un québecois dont LES PARENTS (note subtile aux personnes réticentes à intégrer les “immigrés de deuxième génération” *) sont d’originaires d’Inde. Nous avons joyeusement sauté un plomb collectif pour nous protéger de l’ambiance de travail opressante imposée par nos collègues temporaires dans cette merveilleuse compagnie qui fabrique des planchers de luxe. En quittant la compagnie, je n’ai même pas récupéré une des gigantesques planches destinées aux rebuts (qui sont magnifiques et qui vous couteraient un dixième de votre salaire l’unité) tant j’avais hâte de partir.
Especially for you Kim :
(hey, could you get me one of these gigantic boards we moved the other night before leaving ?)
* Un immigré de deuxième génération est une personne qui est née dans un pays mais dont les parents sont nés ailleurs. D’ou éducation et culture de l’enfant généralement différente (à des degrés divers) de celle des gens du pays dont la généologie remonte jusqu’à Noé. Nombre de ces enfants sont bilingues, certains (comme moi) sont unilingues de la langue du pays où ils sont nés. Mais certaines têtes réductrices veulent les qualifier d’immigrés (immigrés d’où, du ventre de nos mères ?) plutôt que de citoyen du pays, ce qui permet de faire un pas en direction de – pourquoi pas, dans le meilleur des cas – l’expulsion le jour ou le pays vote des lois qui permettent de renvoyer les immigrés du pays. Dans le cas de Kimveer, bien qu’il ait toujours vécu à Montréal et que toute sa culture soit québecoise (anglophone, détail ô combien important), cela permettrait de dire qu’il est hindoux de deuxième génération. Et de le traiter comme tel si un gouvernement raciste voyait le jour. Un choix de mots plus lourd de conséquences qu’il n’y parait, et qui souligne les faiblesses du processus d’intégration (allez, disons des deux bords, du pays et des immigrants).
Posté par zeugme à 21:04 – Satisfaction du visiteur – Commentaires [0] – Rétroliens [0] – Permalien [#]
Judging from the pictures of this self-involved basket case, I’d say there’s another spoiled- rotten, aimless, useless, pos with nothing but time and money on his hands.
What a waste.
Too bad that @sshole got to spread his misery around innocent peoples’ lives.
The Globe & Mail’s web poll also asked a loaded question. (CTV the other) They got shot too. Tried to skew the poll results by using “effective” gun registry. I quess they think Alan Rock’s $2B waste was not effective.
Apparently, there is another Montreal website hosted by another whack job that should be investigated. I sure hope the cops look into that one before he goes off the deep end and tries the same thing.
the picture accompanying the story in my paper shows the victims fleeing with their fingers locked together of the top of their head.
lemme guess, the cops told them to come out of the building like that.
and here I thought that humans are built to swing the arms when walking and running. kinda like all those record breaking dashes in the olympics. havent seen one do it yet with the hands on top of their head.
bottom line, and typically, the cops were protecting themselves over the safety of the fleeing victims, instead of allowing the victims to drop their hands and gain speed running. they demand the victims ‘come out with yer hands up’ instead of running like hell arms akimbo in the normal manner.
very typical cop response. put their own safety ahead of the citizen.
Disclaimer – I’m a lefty, most of the time.
I’m sad to see some people breathlessly hoping this was Islamic terrorism.
Very few seem to have much to say in condolences, just how much they hate the CBC.
Stephen Harper continues to act like a decent fucking prime minister, proud he is in office with comments like he made on Sept. 11 and last night, especially contrasted with Jackass Layton who should have kept his damn mouth shut but couldn’t help yapping about guns and political reasons. What a joke that guy is.
This is nothing more than a sad kid who went too far down the wrong path in his mind, and now so many people’s lives are forever changed. Glad they got him in the head.
Angryflower wrote, “I’m sad to see some people breathlessly hoping this was Islamic terrorism.
“Very few seem to have much to say in condolences, just how much they hate the CBC.”
What a lousy precis (French word) of this thread. (Angryflower probably didn’t have to make concise condensations of long prose passages at school. Too bad.)
But I do agree with part of this person’s post.
“Angryflower probably didn’t have to make concise condensations of long prose passages at school.”
No, but I did have to write an essay on Riemann Sums. That’s about as wordy as it got.
Imagine stepping into a combinatorial math class and being told most of your mark depended on an essay.
Sweet!
/wasn’t so sweet after all, and I lost the ability to do basic arithmetic after it
I’d like to add, (heh), that I really hope our side has figured out the difference between gun enthusiasts and farmers, and outlaws, and every gun law on the planet isn’t going to stop events like this. He could have used a slingshot?
I hear you, Angryflower. An 11 year old student of mine had a really mean looking sling shot in his backpack the other day. I knew because another student said he’d been threatened. So, what happened? I told the VP. The sling shot was temporarily confiscated.
Board rubric? Inform the police. File a report. Suspend the student. Did any of this happen? No. (“Mitigating circumstances,” said Admin. I guess they meant this kid’s thoroughly irresponsible mother.) That’s how the educational system keeps our children safe.
One of the reasons that totalitarian gun laws have been so easily passed in Canada is that many shooters are too ready to agree to restrictions on firearms that they don’t have or don’t like. Specifically, I refer to WL Mackenzie Redux’s comment regarding the CX4 as “sole purpose would be self defense or law enforcement”. The CX4 is not a gun that I would get, but if someone wants a CX4, then they should be free to own one. It probably would be fine for plinking, but not very usefull for self defence in the bush with the very underpowered 9 mm cartridge, and as we’ve just seen in Montreal, not a particularly effective antipersonal firearm. I don’t know of any jurisdiction where a 9 mm cartridge can be legally used to hunt deer which are about the same weight as people. My personal preference is for the M1 Garand, despite its weight, in the bush when I worry about encountering bears.
The reason that there haven’t been any raids over magazines is that this whole area of the law is so muddled that the cops probably figure they have better things to do than get their cases thrown out of court. While technically posession of rifle magazines holding >5 rounds is illegal, this is only if the magazine is assembled and if there are no exceptions for a particular rifle. It is perfectly legal to posess 30 round AK mags as long as one stores the magazine in pieces. I’ve seen AK mags for sale at gun shows in Canada (in pieces of course), but it’s far cheaper to buy them in the US. If one owned both a CX4 and a 9mm Beretta pistol, then there is absolutely no way anyone could be prosecuted unless they happened to have a loaded 10 round mag in the CX4 when the cops showed up. Then there are such anomalies in the law like the 8 round M1 magazine capacity (just try putting only 5 rounds in an M1 clip and loading it into the rifle) and the 10 round magazine capacity on Lee Enfields. Magazines that are modified to smaller capacity are trivially easy to restore to full capacity which takes only a minute or so with a hacksaw to get 5 round M14 mags back to their designed 20 round capacity. Fortunately for a lot of people, Gill didn’t use an M14 in his rampage as if he did the body count would have been considerably greater.
What I’d really be interested in finding out if Gill’s 2 references that are required for his FAC were contacted by the police. When I renewed my FAC in 1996 both of my references were contacted by the police, but since then it appears that this practice has stopped. I’ve never been called about the people whose FAC applications I’ve been a reference for and my last FAC renewal (I guess it’s now called a PAL) went through with none of my references being called. I get called routinely now about peoples passport applications that I sign, but no one that I know of who has put their name down as a reference on someones FAC application has been contacted by the police in the last 6 years. Makes one wonder about what the $2+ billion bought with the gun registry (my guess is that this was a liebral ploy to siphon off taxpayers money to their friends).
About the only good thing about this episode is that the police managed to shoot this asshole fairly quickly and the taxpayers have been spared the millions of dollars it would have cost to incarcerate him had he lived. Of course to compute the savings, one first has to subract the $6,000,000 value of his life from that amount (Miller, TR. Costs associated with gunshot wounds in Canada in 1991. Canadian Medical Association Journal. 153(9):1261-1268 (1995)). I’m not sure how much TR Miller thinks that Gill’s life was worth in 2006 dollars.
Curious how the MSM is seeking out inanimate objects to blame for this event whereas in any complex system, such occasional severe malfunctions of individual subunits are to be expected. Far greater death tolls from bus crashes not that long ago seem to have resulted in no debate about whether we should ban buses and whether puttting so many people at risk in a single vehicle should be allowed. Similarly, airline pilots who decide to kill themselves (and incidentally all of their passengers) seem to get very little publicity (the last episode I recall is that of an Egyptian airliner that crashed into the ocean and all evidence pointed to the pilot deliberately doing this). If Gill had chosen to drive a large truck into a crowd of students at the same school killing many more of them than he did with a rifle, this probably would have rated only a few seconds on the national news. I suspect this is due to widespread hoplophobia in the MSM and the total lack of imagination of most reporters who are incapable of comprehending that in many situations a motor vehicle is a far more effective murder weapon than a firearm.
“…a “law student”?
“A university spokesman said the timing of the attack — only a day after a gunman went on a deadly rampage at Montreal’s Dawson College — was exceptionally poor.” [sic]*
Law student charged in drive-by shooting | September 15th, 2006
A University of Ottawa law student was arrested Thursday after a man in a car fired a pellet gun into a crowd at the university. …-
jacks newswatch
*Link goes to …… story by CBC news, Canada’s National News Source.
Kimveer Gill was a mentally sick individual. He sought acceptance in cultures where he could and Goth culture tries to be very accepting of people for the precise purpose of preventing people from becoming so disenfranchised or disconnected from society or reality, that they fall. This person was a fallen soul. He was full of hate. Kimveer looked for avenues to placate these feelings.. such as video games or music.. This did not work, because Kimveer Gill was sick. A mentally sick person is not a product of the culture they hide in. Charles Manson was not a hippie, Charles Whitman was not a conservative christian. Ted Bundy was not a yuppy. These people hide where they think they can dissapear, or in a place they find the most empathy, or in a place they feel they are perceived as normal.. But make no mistake about it… these people are sick in the head and in the heart and in the soul. No music, nor club, nor bands nor governments nor schools can fix what medicine and Doctors are still struggling to understand and cure.
Kimveer Gill was a mentally sick individual. He sought acceptance in cultures where he could and Goth culture tries to be very accepting of people for the precise purpose of preventing people from becoming so disenfranchised or disconnected from society or reality, that they fall. This person was a fallen soul. He was full of hate. Kimveer looked for avenues to placate these feelings.. such as video games or music.. This did not work, because Kimveer Gill was sick. A mentally sick person is not a product of the culture they hide in. Charles Manson was not a hippie, Charles Whitman was not a conservative christian. Ted Bundy was not a yuppy. These people hide where they think they can dissapear, or in a place they find the most empathy, or in a place they feel they are perceived as normal.. But make no mistake about it… these people are sick in the head and in the heart and in the soul. No music, nor club, nor bands nor governments nor schools can fix what medicine and Doctors are still struggling to understand and cure.
I just want to say that I feel very sad for those who have to go throuh this. I think this guy was just a retard. For those out there blaming the Sikh people, please try to understand he was not in any way a true Sikh. He did not listen to Indian music or act like one. so please say as many bad things about this man you would want, but do not bring Sikhism in this. He was a sick man and I just feel sorry for his parents and mostly everyone that have to go throuh this.
I just want to say that I feel very sad for those who have to go throuh this. I think this guy was just a retard. For those out there blaming the Sikh people, please try to understand he was not in any way a true Sikh. He did not listen to Indian music or act like one. so please say as many bad things about this man you would want, but do not bring Sikhism in this. He was a sick man and I just feel sorry for his parents and mostly everyone that have to go throuh this.
t. schmuch esq. wrote “the picture accompanying the story in my paper shows the victims fleeing with their fingers locked together of the top of their head.
lemme guess, the cops told them to come out of the building like that.
bottom line, and typically, the cops were protecting themselves over the safety of the fleeing victims. very typical cop response. put their own safety ahead of the citizen.”
Are you kidding me?? Let’s put that comment into perspective. While the chaos of this tragic event was unfolding, these ‘selfish cops’ were running INTO the school, TOWARDS the gunman…or for all they knew at the time, group of gunmen!! Keep in mind…these are regular, every day patrol officers, not a heavily armed SWAT unit who were prepared for the incident.
While the terrified mass of students exited the school in what I can only imagine would be a state of sheer panic and confusion… these ‘selfish cops’ were entering into a situation in which they did not have the luxury of knowing exactly what they were running into!
That’s right, let me say that again…While everyone else was running AWAY (as they should have), these officers – who by your allegations are only worried about their own safety above others – were running TOWARDS the shooting. Thank God they were there and reacted as quickly as they did!!
Of course they are going to take some safety precautions with the people running around from the school, that’s what they are trained to do!!! Think about it…if you are running out of the school and your hands are on your head, common sense says to the officers arriving outside that you don’t have a CX4 Storm concealed in your hands and you are not a threat to shoot anyone…because at this time remember, no one knows exactly how many shooters there are in the school!!!
By the sounds of it, schmuck, you have had a few run-ins with these ‘selfish’ cops in the past and have a bit of a tainted perspective on the gravity of this whole situation. This is not about what the officers did, its about what one sick, twisted, mentally perverse individual did to invoke fear and grief on not only a community, but a whole country.
thats right willy. THEYRE PAID TO DO THAT.
theyre not paid to put CITIZENS at risk ALSO.
and I have seen, heard about and had cops do this thing, so it is a pattern and needs to be reported as such.
they dont care about the truth, just persuing their agenda.
it took me 8 fucking months to get an answer to the question: if someone is assaulted, are they supposed to stay at the scene or are they allowed to leave?
if you stay and the fight resumes and it becomes necessary to flatten the prick to prevent a 3rd attack, the cops will arrest you for assault on the grounds you shouldacoulda just left; but if you leave to prevent further conflict, they accuse you, as they did me, of trying to ‘get away’. you cant win with those assholes.
the cops in canada are the single WORST hazard to safety and freedom bar none.
just look at the arar commission report.
fuckin rcmp lied and lied and lied to cover their asses.
if