Oh bother.
Via Sandmonkey, who comments:
Ok, so the british are retarded multiculturalists who think that muslims really get offended by Piglet, so they ban him out of misguided, albeit good, intentions. Fine. What’s Turkey’s excuse? They are a muslim nation and this is an islamic party government, and last I checked Piglet wasn’t Haram. WTF is going on?
I think that once you get a bureaucratic system set up, they have to ‘do something’ Consider how our own HRC have taken off and ‘morphed’ into something far broader than their original mandate, and moved into examining the individual psychological intentions of people.
As far as Piglet is concerned – one has to ask why the ‘pig is unclean’. Read Marvin Harris’s explanation of why the pig is ‘unclean’ for both Muslims and Jews of the ME – which is that the pig, which requires a moist environment, became too costly to raise in an environment that was arid, that was changing from forests to grasslands to deserts.
And again, what business does one religion have to dictate the day to day life of peoples of another religion or no religion?
ET…Just wanted to thank you for adding”no religion”to your last question(which is really the question of the ages isn’t it?).I still find it disappointing that on SDA in the past,on each occasion where my”un-belief”has been stated in relevance to topics on different threads,I was attacked for my beliefs(though in fairness,on two occasions apologies were given).
Anyways,I appreciate my basis for a good moral compass was because of a religious upbringing,but unquestionably some morals transend any and all religion.Why do we not teach common morality in school?Surely drilling into kids for 13 years at least a strong sense of empathy and understanding of how our actions can hurt others would just make sense and affect society profoundly.We concentrate too much on our differences,not our commonalities and it is holding this country back!
Anyways,since you have claimed some research on the topic of pigs and islam,maybe you can shed some light on this for me…Though I have heard it challenged,I have also heard it claimed that by by burying pig”stuff”with a suicide bombers remains,that would desicrate their grave and keep them out of heaven and the arms of their many virgins.This was to discourage the act in the first place.
Are you people ehre trying to joke about Islam? It is a religion of more than one billion people. You should be more sensitve and not offend people like that. We respect you’ll, please do the same.
I say this as a friend and do not dictate anybody. This is just the basic rule of nature.
Yes, I understand and appreciate your comments about being attacked for ‘no religion’. I’m a firm atheist – and I’ve been called every name in the book in various blogs. I’ve been told that I have no morals (how could they know?) because, these people assert that without a religion, it’s impossible to be moral. I’ve been told I’m a communist, because they glue atheism and communism together. How ignorant. This simply reveals how little those individuals understand of religion, communism, atheism.
But, I’m an atheist. And I have strong morals – based on reason. After all, religious beliefs are defined by humans, and therefore, morals are also defined by humans. And, there IS such a thing as a universal morality – based around the definition of and preservation of life.
I feel that we should educate children in critical thinking skills, showing them how to reason out an argument, how to understand fallacies of arguments (ad hominem, ambiguity, emotive appeals, irrelevance etc).
With regard to the suicide bombers – first, you’d have to believe in heaven, hell, 72 virgins and etc. If you don’t (and I obviously don’t)..then, the action is without meaning. Since the pig is a symbol of desecration in both Islamic and Jewish religions, then, it would be understandable that merging the body of the pig with the body of the human, would defile the human and disable its ‘right’ to enter heaven.
But as I said, Marvin Harris, in his book Cannibals and Kings, has an interesting analysis of the economic and ecological reason why a people in a particular environment would define a particular form of protein as ‘unhealthy’ and enforce that judgment by a religious edict.
Symbols can be strange. When you think that the definition of something has a meaning that has been created strictly by human beings, it’s strange to me, why people are so emotional about it. Why get hysterical over a pig?
Nonsense, Muslim Unity. No religion or set of beliefs is immune to discussion about its beliefs. Don’t start to threaten anyone here.
And don’t start hiding behind the ‘offended’ tactic. So what if you are offended by a discussion about a set of beliefs? As I said, no religion or set of beliefs is immune to questions. Indeed, it ought to be open to debate, discussion, questions. If you are offended by such – that’s a sign of your closing your mind.
Have you seen the cartoons by Muslims about the Christian and Jewish religions? There’s lots of them around – and no-one is saying that ‘You Muslims should be more sensitive and not offend Christians and Jews’.
Again, no religion should be off-limits to discussion about its axioms and beliefs. If you are offended – tough.
But what if I don’t respect your religion, Muslim Unity…?
When some people accuse others of not showing them adequate “respect”, what they often mean is, “you are not showing me adequate FEAR.”
I agree with you Kathy. I don’t respect the Islam religion, for its adamant strictures on killing those who do not subscribe to Islam or pay ‘the dhimmitude’, and for its views on women.
” Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free.” (Koran 9:5)
As Kathy says – the respect demanded in many cases is really a requirement for ‘fear’.
You already live in FEAR Kathy.
Just wondering who where those 2 Bearded Guys you gave those bags of fertilizer too?
Neutralsam:
You are the same type of person who would have spent the 50s calling anti-communist conservatives “paranoid”–then been left speechless when Venona proved us right all along.
You just keep sipping your latte and pretending to read Chomsky, and leave the saving of Western Civ to us, boy. You’re nothing but excess weight anyway.
Well then,following the reasoning that it is extremists who use religion to get young impressionable muslims to kill themselves and murder numerous innocent others to gain many virgins in heaven,consider this…What impact would trumpeting counter-propaganda threatening to bury any suicide bomber’s remains with pig entrails have?Could it at least deter a few from making a terrible decision,or are we mislead to their true motivation to commit such evil?
BTW,Muslim Unity,if you really are sincere about everyone respecting others,how about waking your community up to it’s responsibilities and publicly promoting some pro-active anti-extremism policies to set your friends and neighbours in this country at ease.This would be opposed to the majority of muslim leaders who currently wrap themselves in political correctness,false victimhood and denial!
Maybe you could join this thread with more than a feeble plea of bigotry and offer some positive ideas to combat these problems!
canadian observer – I think that your call to Muslim Unity is very valid.
How about the Muslim community openly rejecting its ‘jihad’ agenda of killing all non-Muslims/infidels? How about the Muslim community stopping the radical imams from preaching their hate-filled sermons against the West? After all, how can we respect a religion that bombs civilians, both Muslim and non-Muslim, in the name of their religion? How can we respect a religion that allows schoolgirls to burn to death because it wouldn’t allow them to flee, without their ‘hijabs’ and wouldn’t allow the firemen entrance? How can we respect a religion that stones raped women to death?
It is up to the Muslim moderates to reform their religion and permit its followers to live within the modern industrial world – with people of other religions and with people without religion.
There are those who tend to believe (okay, maybe it’s just me) that, like ET’s morality-based-on-reason, that there may religious-tenets-based-on-reason.
The Old Testament says that, in addition to other creatures, pigs and seafood (or at least certain forms of seafood) are “unclean”. If we look at both of these particular “food sources”, we see that both require proper cooking to ensure that parasites or bacteria are killed. Without the proper cooking, the diner could become sick. It could be that the risk of food-borne sickness was sufficiently high in these types of foods to warrant inserting them into a religious tenet to discourage consumption (and hence, sickness). I’m not aware of anyone exploring all of the creatures identified as unclean to determine if this line of reasoning holds up…but one would think that someone must have done so at some point.
This “reasoning” could be attributed either to man (who knowingly or unwittingly created a “religion”) or to a supreme being, so neither side of the religion / atheisim crowd can claim this as proof of anything.
Are there similarities between Islamism and Judaism regarding which critters are “unclean”?
hassle – I think you’d find Marvin Harris’s book ‘Cannibals and Kings’ an interesting read. Should be at a library. He talks about the ‘material’ or reality-based reasons for various cultural forms of behaviour. Why is the cow sacred in India; the reason that both Jewish and Islamic peoples consider the pig ‘unclean’ (both peoples were based in the same dry, hot environmental area)….
Anyone who gives one bit of credence to the idea that attacking fictional storybook charcters is something worthwhile is DERANGED.
Social taboos that originate in the stone age being used as justification for behaviour that is simply abhorrent.
OMMAG
So Winnie intends to eat Piglet!? Bwaaaah!!!! I guess I never read that far into it…. whimper…
The nonMuslim world has no lessons to take from the Muslim world.
Islam isn’t about peace at all. It was born in war, grew via war (all offensive wars) and aims to force nonMuslims to become Muslims or else either be put to death or become “inferior” and have to pay a discriminatory tax.
Yes, that is Islam. And, though certainly not all Muslims like that part of the faith, still so many do believe in it, and it is those who would go forth and practice the impositive, deadly doctrines of the faith who are a threat to the nonMuslim world and whom the good, peaceful and tolerant Muslims must now proceed to expel from their faith if they want their faith to survive and not be destroyed in a world war they started.
Just being realistic.
Any religion founded upon and which continues to have basis in supremacism, intolerance, imposition and violence CANNOT survive in the contemporary progressive, tolerant world.
Did you know, for example, that THE CRUSADES WERE SELF-DEFENSE AGAINST ISLAMIC INVASION & OCCUPATION OF CHRISTIAN LANDS?
http://www.crisismagazine.com/april2002/cover.htm
The nonMuslim world has no lessons to take from Islam. Muslims have no business, therefore, demanding respect as long as the faith is chock full of intolerant butchers who have free rein and virtually no opposition from their fellow Muslims to commit the atrocities required by the Koran.
So, Muslim Unity, my answer to you is: NO! YOU SHOW RESPECT FOR CHRISTIANS, JEWS, ZORAOSTRIANS, ETC., AND ATHEISTS… COMPLETE, UNCONDITIONAL RESPECT AND TOLERANCE! TREAT US AS ABSOLUTE EQUALS OR FECK OFF!
Apologies to Kate if this needed some “toning down”, but the sheer nerve of the ignorant-of-his-own-faith “Muslim Unity” needed a serious, honest, unfettered-by-political-correctness-and-Dhimmitude, unapologetic response.
If it isn’t against the law in Canada to publish cartoons of Jesus blowing Piglet, Jesus with a boner, or Jesus and another guy rubbing boners, then someone should go ahead and publish cartoons of Mohammed blowing Piglet, Mohammed with a boner and Mohammed rubbing boners with another guy.
And beheading the cartoonists will still be a serious crime.
Or will PC-ness and Dhimmitude treat the situation differently just because some folks are afraid of being beheaded? It’s totally conceivable that the law won’t be enforced then, as we’ve seen in the Occupation of Caledonia by Aboriginals, who aren’t being held accountable to the law by the state. In Canada. I’m not making this up.
Slippery slope. It’s very, very real. In Canada.
Is it going to come to the point that in order to get equal treatment, nonMuslims are going to have to start threatening to go around chopping off cartoonists’ heads?!
I’m afraid things are going to get worse, not better.
Please don’t behead the messenger. If I don’t say what needs to be said, then who will?
“We respect you’ll, please do the same.”
-Muslim Unity
—You respect us? How? By looking the other way when your brethren chop off our heads and blow themselves up in pizza parlors and fly loaded 767s into skyscrapers full of people?
Please! Spare us!
`Beef’ cut from India’s history textbooks
Victory for Hindu fundamentalists
…References to the beef-eating past of ancient Hindus have been deleted from Indian school textbooks…
…Hardline Hindu activists, who consider cattle holy and have been seeking a ban on slaughter by Muslims and Christians, said the beef-eating references were meant to insult Hindus…
http://tinyurl.com/zctmg
Canadian Sentinel.
Well said.
“Are you people ehre trying to joke about Islam? It is a religion of more than one billion people. You should be more sensitve and not offend people like that. We respect you’ll, please do the same.
I say this as a friend and do not dictate anybody. This is just the basic rule of nature.
Posted by: Muslim Unity”
MU: – Treating women as chattels offends me.
– Brainwashing young people into hating the
west and the Jews offends me.
– Burying accused up to their necks in the
ground and then stoning them to death
offends me.
– Immigrating to our country and then
attempting to subvert our culture and our
way of life with that garbage you call
a “relgion” offends me.
– Cultivating and condoning suicide bombers
offends me.
– Kidnapping and murdering innocent people
offends me.
MU, you take your fricken”religion” and shove it where the sun don’t shine.
Oh, and have a nice day.
PIGLET,PORKY,WILBUR,ARNOLD,MISS PIGGY they have been labled outlaws by mulim fanatics and the wussie british parlament