If Canada has already taken delivery of some F-35s, what would be achieved by switching suppliers now? I can’t imagine that anything useful would arise out of trying to fly and maintain two fleets of very different fighter jets. If we go ahead with that, it’s pretty much like scoring an own goal.
Canada has received its first pair of new F-35 fighter jets, with Ottawa still deliberating on how many of the American planes it will buy.
The Royal Canadian Air Force announced receiving the two Lockheed Martin jets Friday on social media with a photo from Phoenix showing one plane with a maple-leaf roundel.
Pretty soon we’ll be restricted to paper airplanes and styrofoam gliders for the RCAF.
That is already the Red Arrows.
There’s not enough elbow room in the F-35 cockpit.
Har!
But you can’t call it cockpit in Canada. That term got tossed long before tampon dispensers got tacked on the walls in commando toilets.
The way Canada is trending, it’ll be Flying By The Seat of Our Pansies.
Rainbow coloured jets, tanks that shoot blanks, an infantry of words over weapons.
“…what would be achieved by switching suppliers now?”
More graft.
It isn’t like the F-35 is the absolute best thing for RCAF to be flying. It was chosen for POLITICAL reasons, not tactical or strategic ones. Cost alone means you’re never going to have more than ten available at the same time.
What Canada -needs- tactically and strategically is a mix of Arctic-capable fast-movers (F-16, F-18 type airframe) and ground attack aircraft (A-10 type and/or crop duster) that are CHEAP and PLENTIFUL that we can build and fix in Canada. That’s what we need. They need to be capable of flying with drone support (wingmen), they need to carry over-the-horizon weapons, and they need to be all-weather. Including arctic blizzards.
And, of course, we need a -lot- of drones and launcher systems. Ground based mobile launched, air launched, ship launched.
That’s all eminently doable. But the F-35 doesn’t do it. And that is what we bought. So I would say that a whole bunch of guys need to lose their jobs. But we’re never ever going to see that happen, because #Lieberals.
…you know it’s not the 80s any more, right? You’re right about the drones and the mission profile, but putting our flyboys in airframes from two generations back is the equivalent of putting them in a coffin with a JATO rocket attached.
I believe the A-10 has been replaced by swarms of drones … which can be easily deployed to American suburbs everywhere.
How ironic … when but a newborn American, we were building bomb shelters at our homes because of the Soviet nuclear threat … and now we’re building them to hide from Iranian drone attack. Or Socialist/NGO-funded drone attack .., or climate change drone attacks on Red State conservative neighborhoods …
Drones, cruise and ballistic missiles and aircraft that can launch them and glide bombs.
“…that are CHEAP and PLENTIFUL that we can build and fix in Canada.”
Jesus!
I asked my brother-in-law about the F-35 years ago regarding the purchase of the F-35’s, so much controversy, so much money per unit and negative spin on-going from different media et al. I can only tell you he was a senior officer in Air Wing Command and earlier in career was involved in training of many years of the Jet pilots flying the F-18’s in Canada. He was also involved with in the international groups and alliances as a senior officer for a good number of years at the end of his career working globally.
In the words of my brother-in-law going back all the years where this purchase of the 88 F-35’s was decided and me asking him, “was the F-35 the best option for Canada’s needs as multi-role fighter”? With out hesitation and added inflection he replied, “by far the best option and nothing else was close”. I didn’t ask specifics for good reason, he was still in the CAF.
I asked him again to confirm what he had said when another brother-in-law and my father-in-law were touting the Griffen this last winter, and he replied, “it was then and still is the best option for Canadian multi-role needs even with changes in battle environments (I assumed he was taking into account the role of drones as part of the environment). His words instantly silenced the family members – note the Father-in- Law was also ranking service member in Air Wing for many years and was caught by his response; he hadn’t known I had asked my Air Wing Bro’ in law the question about the F-35 years ago.
My Air Wing Bro’ In Law only speaks when he feels he needs to speak, he doesn’t speak unless it’s a truly meaningful thing – not a small talker. When he talks, people listen; his reputation precedes him. He is almost always the smartest man in the room.
Politics were much less of an issue years ago when the decision was made all those years ago. Certainly, now politics invade all levels of decision making Federally and decisions decided this way are not going to help Canadian pilots execute their missions with interoperability, with planned effect and safety/survivability for priceless assets such as a Canadian pilot trained to man an F-35 worth 120 million dollars each.
Years ago, I asked him after watching the original Top Gun movie if American pilots were really like that… he said, “Yes they are”. Then I asked him if Canadian pilots were different and he said, “Canadian pilots understand the equipment they are manning is not easily replaced so maturity in all things is part of the selection criteria”. I can confirm this as a friend of mine from high school achieved selection for training to be a CF-18 pilot but washed out because he decided one day to go below a certain ceiling and go super’ – supersonic at low level without approval.
Canada needs a realistic assessment of the mission. With 30 odd fighter pilots currently in the air force, we don’t need many of anything.
Nobody keeps track of the number of ex RCAF officers currently employed by Lockheed Martin for a good reason.
What is the cost in blood to buy anything but the best warplane?
How many Canadian pilots will lose their lives flying second class planes?
How many unnecessary deaths will the Liberal cult accept?
I’m sure the Liberals have done the arithmetic and polled the elbowtards .
“How many Canadian pilots will lose their lives flying second class planes?”
The last Canadian pilot killed in action was likely 1945. Probably 100 or maybe more have died in accidents since then. The F104 wasn’t called the widowmaker for nothing. Just don’t send Canadian planes into battle if they are outmatched.
Many Generals and Air Marshalls have said something to the effect that having the second best air force is worse than having none. (Kenney and Ridgway come to mind).
The F35 is near invisible on radar …. I remember reading that the entire plane has the radar signature of a golf ball (an F22 has the signature of a pea).
I would want to be in the invisible plane if they are shooting at me and not in the most fun to fly plane ( Gripen ) which sticks out like dog balls on radar.
I agree with the A10 comment … Alberta needs a couple of hundred A10’s for the coming war with eastern canuckistan!!
near invisible on some radar, not all. You can’t use the radars that can detect it to guide missiles, but you can see it with those radars and put a weapon in the general vicinity, which is what took out a f117
Stealth reduces the range at which aircraft can be detected. Obvious advantage in air to air, but it also complicates the ground based air defense problem. Do you buy more radars, how do you deploy them, do you turn them on (and make them targets) etc. It’s not magic, but it makes life a heckuva lot more complicated for the enemy.
Airplanes w pilots are so 2024.
Redundant maintenance staff, training and parts inventories are obviously the most economical way to go.
That is the problem with the F-35. Although it needs lots of spare parts, your independent national air force cannot keep an inventory of them.
Perhaps there are too many CCP citizens in the Canadian air force.
Canada’s Alignment with European Fighter Programs
• GCAP Observer Status: Canada joined GCAP on July 21, 2026. This status requires no financial fee or immediate purchase obligations. It acts as a legal and strategic mechanism allowing Canadian defense officials to attend classified talks and monitor the engineering of a crewed, sixth-generation stealth fighter intended to operationalize in the 2030s.
(that’s the official line, but here’s what really is going on)
Currently, Carney is holding active negotiations with SAAB in Sweden and Bombardier. They are exploring purchasing Gripen E fighter jets inclusive of building them in Canada. Gripen E’s are garbage, and still expensive. The Canadian air force recently did comparison testing between the Gripen E and the F-35. The Gripen E came out at 33% to the F-35’s 95%. F-35’s cost only $15 Million more per plane. The only category where the Gripen E beats the F-35 is operating costs.
You are missing two key points.
1. Sweden will let us bomb whoever we want – you bought it, you do whatever you want with it.
2. We do not need to beg the Americans to let us have a spare part, which are often required by the F-35 apparently.
Interoperability Robert, its a thing. Canada bomb what exactly. Don’t pretend this failing shithole is a real country.
The comparison was run by officers hoping to get jobs with Lockheed.
The F35 is probably the best aircraft available – for first line service in civilized warfare. Here in Canada we have a whole lot of difficult territory lacking first class military airports. For this a second line aircraft like the Gripen makes sense, designed for (relatively) easy maintenance and rugged conditions, it is a better fit fot the the Arctic. Even the US has large numbers of secondary aircraft – the F16 for instance, doing the second line tasks. A hint of government intentions come from Anand who gave purchasing costs at $19.8 B, given that other sources gave the program costs increasing towards $30B. A cap on the numbers of F35s and a backup of JAS 39s makes operational sense.
In some ways it makes sense to go with 2 platforms. A smaller fleet of F-35s acts as the stealth and highest tech component while following behind out of harm’s way are the lesser stealth craft, like Grippen, which more or less act as missile carriers. The forward f-35 does all the guidance and recon work and manages the payloads on the carriers. And of course, the others would still function well in many duties and especially once air supperiority is achieved. New non-stealth aircraft do have incredibly sophisticated electronics.
It’s unlikely that the Grippens will get the missile truck computer that the F15EX has
Never underestimate the stupidity of Canadian politicians…
Remember that we are getting a fighter for the next 50 years (at least), not 10 or 15. The Gripen flew only 10 years after the F-18. It is a generation behind the F-35. It’s a bit like the Super Hornet, squeezing the last juice out of that particular platform, obsolescent with perhaps 10 or 15 years. Sweden is looking for a replacement by the way. To date it also has proven nothing. It hasn’t deployed and fought anywhere. The F-35 is what we should be getting. 30 Canadian contractors are making parts for it. Currently there are no drones that can intercept, identify and shoot down other aircraft. Maybe some day. AiIrcraft can also deploy drones and if those aircraft are integrated into a network (like the F-35) so are the drones. For those worried about cold weather, Eielson has already 2 squadrons, the 355th and 356th Fighter Squadrons. Interoperability and access to the supply chain of NATO is an important issue for Canada, as we are notoriously cheap on storing spares. Carney and Canadian politicians KNOW the F-35 is the solution, or they would have been all over any other solution already. They are just waiting for Trump to go away. In the mean time, buy some more duct tape for the Aussie discards the RCAF is flying now.
Ack-sherally, having (skimmed…) the comments, you’re missing an aircraft that REALLY IS the best choice for Canada, for the same reason we got the F-18 instead of the F-16. Relax though, that perfect aircraft is no longer available to buy, and the few that exist aren’t for sale.
– The F-22.
For the simple reason that when our fly-boys are operating over the vast stretches of our huge country, and lunch an engine (which happens), they have another engine to bring them home. The F-35 doesn’t. Nor does the Gripen.
They don’t make F-22s anymore. And don’t sell it to other nations. And F-35s are operationg in Alaska now right along with the F-22s.