Related: The Navy With More Admirals Than Warships
h/t The One and Only C, Bunny
50 Replies to “Where NATO Defense Expenditure Stands”
And Canada claims everything it can as “military spending”. (I wonder what the tampons-in-the-men’s-toilet costs were for 2024?)
Thanks Kate! Interesting our arctic is basically undefended—–wish Harper was still in!
Harper was another wet noodle masquerading as a conservative.
Sadly that proved to be so.
Harper was a HUGH disappointment in many areas. He even let the Turd beat him.
And left senate seats empty forPM Dunning Krueger to fill.
You guys knocking Prime Stephen Harper don’t seem to realize what happened! The Conservative government of Harper was considering an Elected Senate to replace the patronage appointments of the old bicameral system! The old system is really patronage appointments!
-Stephen Harper and the Conservatives thought they would win the next election and establish a new Senate! ( However they lost ) The reason he didn’t fill the open Senate positions!
The new Senate would have had 2 senators for each province and 1 from each territory —this would give the senate the final say on all matters and Regional representation would be achieved!
Prime Minister Harper also wanted to protect the Arctic with multiple Northern military outposts and an increase in Military spending which included airplanes that could function in the North.
Hind sight on this and our own mistakes are always 20/20!
DND/Public Works purchasing is broken.
(Took 12 years to buy a fckn pistol – they asked Glock at one point to give them their patents ffs.)
But but our Dear Leader PROMISED that we will reach 1.5% by 2138 or something.
Ohhhhhh … I thought “Net Zero” was his goal for NATO funding … because Turdo and his silly little girl supporters don’t like WAR … and NATO is all about starting wars they can’t fight.
Harpo was only slightly less useless than the current tool fool.
Harpo introduced the hair cut option for your bank account, if the bank felt the need to do so .
Harpo also had 1300 useless fools in a department that could be run by 3-4.
Harpo just a bible pounding CUCK, who thought the world was invented 4500 years ago, so not sane.
You mean Oprah? Wth Oprah (a former Obama nut bag cheerleader has-been) has to do with NATO ?!?
Harper also gave us the FIPA agreement with China, his parting gift to the Turd, and China.
Canada does indeed have a uni-party, and the fake conservatives like it that way.
Canada includes all sorts of garbage in that figure as well, not defense related. NATO = 350,000,000 Americans defending 500,000,000 europeans from 170,000,000 Russians, what a joke. Without the US, NATO is a bureaucracy. Canada is good at that, anyway.
My goodness, there are a lot of 98-pound weaklings in NATO. Albania? Montenegro? Estonia? Iceland?
Can anyone explain just what purpose NATO serves nearly 35 years after the fall of the Soviet Union? And do so without simply doing search “USSR” replace “Russia”?
Government jobs & money laundering.
What purpose? Why, it’s a defense alliance in search of an enemy. It really should have just dissolved after the Soviet collapse but instead it justified itself with expansionary mission creep, absorbing ridiculous little countries like Lower Slodobia. But when has a cushy bureaucratic organization ever done the practical thing and decommissioned itself?
Iceland in an American aircraft carrier.
Estonia is spending 3.4% of GDP, a number Canada is not capable of spending without dumping 1/2 of the entire federal gov’t, and even then the federal pensions may sink Canada’s ship.
Canada underfunds NATO by $16 Billion each year, enough to build (who am I kidding? … have the US build a nuclear carrier group or nuclear subs, or nuclear icebreakers) each year. EACH YEAR.
Yet Canada insists the North Pole is theirs, with next to zero capability to defend that statement, while Russia has +5 nuclear powered icebreakers.
I applaud Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, for spending +/- 3% of GDP, as well as Poland at 4.1% and the entirety of the Scandinavian countries exceeding 2% which all exceed tier 2 Canada’s spending with Canada’s inclusion of defence pensions which is specifically mentioned as being not what the NATO agreement was for, and underfunding equipment purchases by 1/2 where it states NATO members must spend 20% of that 2% of GDP for equipment, while Canada generally spends 15% in a good year, but often closer to 10%
Don’t sign contracts with Canada, they have failed since 1988 to keep their word, and spend what they said they would, and the PM at the time, Mulroney, is near universally loathed
When EU diplomats need rides, they can catch U.S. military equipment free.
But, but, but … Putin is trying to reestablish The USSR! The Daily Mail and Keir Starmer told me so!
Soviet Union was a russian empire under new malmanagement. Same whore different lipstick. Should have been eradicated in the 40s. Van Neumann was right.
Membership is voluntary
Want Canada out? Start a campaign.
Funny how the closer one is to russia, the more they spent.
The Royal Canadian Navy is not much better off. A quick internet search shows
30 Flag Officers (2 Vice Adms, 9 Rear Adms, 19 Commodores)
12,500 sailors (8400 regular force, 4100 reserve)
That’s just over 400 sailors per Flag Officer
12 Halifax class Frigates, recently given mid-life refits
12 Kingston class Coastal defense vessels
4 Victoria class Subs, at least two of which are in permanent refit
4 Harry de Wolfe class Offshore patrol vessels
sundry auxiliary vessels including HMCS Oriole, a ketch commissioned in 1952
(Corrections to my numbers are welcomed)
I was once told we have a disproportionate number of Flag Officers to sailors so that we can ramp up quickly in case of war, it being easier to train the lower deck than to commanders. I wonder though, how long it’s been since our flag officers went to sea. Clearly we’re not in good shape.
I was at a RMC/West Point Hockey game a couple of years ago and there were 8 generals there, not in uniform. Apparently there are 129 generals for about the 65,000 man military. What the hell do they do? Only in Canada you say?
They could field an entire regiment of majors just from Ottawa.
Half the 65,000 are probably captains.
The frigates are way out of date, not even Aegis capable, the Kingston class are close to unarmed, and not ships of war, the De Wolfe class can’t get through a cruise without breaking down and being stuck at the nearest port, and the subs are too pathetic to even joke about. The United States Coast guard is an infinitely stronger navy. Like everything about Canada, a third rate joke.
The US military is bloated as well
World War 2 – 12,500,000 soldiers in uniform led by 2,000 generals and flag officers
2024 – 1,350,000 soldiers in uniform led by 1,000 generals and flag officers. The US military also has 750,000 civilians working for the Defense Department
I volunteered in 1965 – served 4 years in the US Army and by 1967 we had 3,500,000 soldiers in uniform – we’ve shrunk a lot since then.
Sebastian Gorka led a training exercise for a few hundred mid rank officers a few years ago at The Pentagon. He gave them an overnight assignment and said name the greatest threat to the US and how to fix it.
The answer: Global Warming
The fix: cut CO2
The US military is lead by very stupid, ignorant Woke officers. The Deep State planned it that way and likes it. Trump has a lot firing to do.
John
US Army 1972.
I had a 1LT (louser) We called him loser!
He was assigned to my “Dust-OFF” unit.
How he ever made it to LT is beyond me.
Exactly. It’s somewhat amusing to see General Milley, who has never won anything, in uniform with his chest covered with ribbons and medals then compare that to General Dwight D. Eisenhower who actually won a significant war with HTG about a half dozen ribbons.
$4.5 trillion GDP with a $51.8 billion defence budget doesn’t seem to equal 2%.
Even if you include the $19.2 billion in the special fund, and the $7 billion from other budgets, you come up short of the $90 billion for 2% for Germany, so there is something wonky with that chart or the government in question is trying to pull a Trudeau to juice the numbers.
Going down memory lane. Does the magazine “Crows Nest” still exist.
Also can’t remember the name of the winter exercise that was held in the Caribbean.
Any way the editor of the Crows Nest wrote.
Stood on the bridge (there was only one at the time) and watched the fleet sail for ???? all 4 of them.
You’ll never guess who got fired.
Landymore?
Sorry wrong. Landymore was already gone. I think the guy was a Leading Seaman.
I have a bunch of Crowsnest magazines somewhere in my basement. I’ll have to dig them out.
They used to have page in back that had drawings of ships with interesting little stories of naval exploits.
Check out the other countries grouped around Canada’s 1.4% military spending. They are all geographically tiny countries. Canada is a very large geographic country with the world’s longest coastlines. We have become farcical.
Commenting on relative percentages by an official at the Munich Security Conference:
“the closer to Russia, the bigger the percentage” [checking Kate’s chart]
Yup.
protection money
How many Canadians are employed at Indian Affairs and Immigration Canada?
Canada was an administrative decision written up to keep the folks in charge, in charge.
So no surprise that it’s become a paper tiger.
They lumped a bunch of stuff to pad the numbers. Pension to military vets, IT support, you name it. People asked what purpose does NATO serve now? It is the tool of globalists. Libya, Afghanistan, Ukraine. But as Afghanistan showed, NATO is is a paper tiger wher most nations volunteer for “support roles” in the money laundering operation rather than the combat roles.
Percentage GDP is getting old that way, you can lump a buch of bullshit to pad the numbers. What nations should be held to is operational units or capabilitites. So many brigades, so many ships, so many squadrons, etc. To be evaluated on readiness every couple of years (OPEVAL). This would promote efficiency.
I never know if posters like you are idiots or enemy fifth column or both. I am betting on both.
Canada talks tough but hides behind the U.S.A.
The only country that could attack Canada is the US. And doubling our defence budget would not change that one iota. We would however, be better equipped to participate in the various foreign wars the US gets involved in. I’m not sure that would be a good idea.
.
Note that Trump recently said he’d like to cut the US defence budget in half. Current US military spending is 2.89% of GDP. Cut the budget in half and you get 1.44% which is about Canada’s current level of defence spending..
Various estimates say the US population has between 400 to 500 million guns. So no country is going to militarily invade the US.
Perhaps a better answer for Canada is to allow more gun ownership by citizens, and to vigorously prosecute criminals who use guns in a crime (coupled with very long jail sentences when convicted).
Why does the US need 750 overseas military bases?. Perhaps it’s time to let foreign countries defend themselves? The US could drastically reduce the size of it’s Army and Marines, while maintaining a Navy and Air Force.
IMO.. The USA is no longer interested in post WW2 security arrangements.. The free ride is over for the EU.. They are rich enough and big enough to defend themselves.. I think that Greenland is where America wants to setup overwatch shop..
Russia.. In spite of their nuclear arsenal doesn’t have the juice to do much besides defend themselves.. A small s super power none the less.. = Europe’s problem..
The next war, cold or not will be with China.. America needs to realign itself along these lines.. That makes India the key player.. Like it or not they are our new best friend.. Europe, not so much..
And Canada claims everything it can as “military spending”. (I wonder what the tampons-in-the-men’s-toilet costs were for 2024?)
Thanks Kate! Interesting our arctic is basically undefended—–wish Harper was still in!
Harper was another wet noodle masquerading as a conservative.
Sadly that proved to be so.
Harper was a HUGH disappointment in many areas. He even let the Turd beat him.
And left senate seats empty forPM Dunning Krueger to fill.
You guys knocking Prime Stephen Harper don’t seem to realize what happened! The Conservative government of Harper was considering an Elected Senate to replace the patronage appointments of the old bicameral system! The old system is really patronage appointments!
-Stephen Harper and the Conservatives thought they would win the next election and establish a new Senate! ( However they lost ) The reason he didn’t fill the open Senate positions!
The new Senate would have had 2 senators for each province and 1 from each territory —this would give the senate the final say on all matters and Regional representation would be achieved!
Prime Minister Harper also wanted to protect the Arctic with multiple Northern military outposts and an increase in Military spending which included airplanes that could function in the North.
Hind sight on this and our own mistakes are always 20/20!
When Harper was in he was great with photo ops but defense spending hovered at 1%:
A rightist view: https://www.dorchesterreview.ca/blogs/news/how-good-was-harper-for-defence
The G&M has an article today outlining Canadian options for it plans to acquire 12 submarines.
DND/Public Works purchasing is broken.
(Took 12 years to buy a fckn pistol – they asked Glock at one point to give them their patents ffs.)
But but our Dear Leader PROMISED that we will reach 1.5% by 2138 or something.
Ohhhhhh … I thought “Net Zero” was his goal for NATO funding … because Turdo and his silly little girl supporters don’t like WAR … and NATO is all about starting wars they can’t fight.
Harpo was only slightly less useless than the current tool fool.
Harpo introduced the hair cut option for your bank account, if the bank felt the need to do so .
Harpo also had 1300 useless fools in a department that could be run by 3-4.
Harpo just a bible pounding CUCK, who thought the world was invented 4500 years ago, so not sane.
You mean Oprah? Wth Oprah (a former Obama nut bag cheerleader has-been) has to do with NATO ?!?
Harper also gave us the FIPA agreement with China, his parting gift to the Turd, and China.
Canada does indeed have a uni-party, and the fake conservatives like it that way.
Canada includes all sorts of garbage in that figure as well, not defense related. NATO = 350,000,000 Americans defending 500,000,000 europeans from 170,000,000 Russians, what a joke. Without the US, NATO is a bureaucracy. Canada is good at that, anyway.
My goodness, there are a lot of 98-pound weaklings in NATO. Albania? Montenegro? Estonia? Iceland?
Can anyone explain just what purpose NATO serves nearly 35 years after the fall of the Soviet Union? And do so without simply doing search “USSR” replace “Russia”?
Government jobs & money laundering.
What purpose? Why, it’s a defense alliance in search of an enemy. It really should have just dissolved after the Soviet collapse but instead it justified itself with expansionary mission creep, absorbing ridiculous little countries like Lower Slodobia. But when has a cushy bureaucratic organization ever done the practical thing and decommissioned itself?
Iceland in an American aircraft carrier.
Estonia is spending 3.4% of GDP, a number Canada is not capable of spending without dumping 1/2 of the entire federal gov’t, and even then the federal pensions may sink Canada’s ship.
Canada underfunds NATO by $16 Billion each year, enough to build (who am I kidding? … have the US build a nuclear carrier group or nuclear subs, or nuclear icebreakers) each year. EACH YEAR.
Yet Canada insists the North Pole is theirs, with next to zero capability to defend that statement, while Russia has +5 nuclear powered icebreakers.
I applaud Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, for spending +/- 3% of GDP, as well as Poland at 4.1% and the entirety of the Scandinavian countries exceeding 2% which all exceed tier 2 Canada’s spending with Canada’s inclusion of defence pensions which is specifically mentioned as being not what the NATO agreement was for, and underfunding equipment purchases by 1/2 where it states NATO members must spend 20% of that 2% of GDP for equipment, while Canada generally spends 15% in a good year, but often closer to 10%
Don’t sign contracts with Canada, they have failed since 1988 to keep their word, and spend what they said they would, and the PM at the time, Mulroney, is near universally loathed
https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/2024/6/pdf/240617-def-exp-2024-en.pdf
When EU diplomats need rides, they can catch U.S. military equipment free.
But, but, but … Putin is trying to reestablish The USSR! The Daily Mail and Keir Starmer told me so!
Soviet Union was a russian empire under new malmanagement. Same whore different lipstick. Should have been eradicated in the 40s. Van Neumann was right.
Membership is voluntary
Want Canada out? Start a campaign.
Rhymes with Victoria Nuland? No Thank You.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/979/400/031.jpg
Funny how the closer one is to russia, the more they spent.
The Royal Canadian Navy is not much better off. A quick internet search shows
30 Flag Officers (2 Vice Adms, 9 Rear Adms, 19 Commodores)
12,500 sailors (8400 regular force, 4100 reserve)
That’s just over 400 sailors per Flag Officer
12 Halifax class Frigates, recently given mid-life refits
12 Kingston class Coastal defense vessels
4 Victoria class Subs, at least two of which are in permanent refit
4 Harry de Wolfe class Offshore patrol vessels
sundry auxiliary vessels including HMCS Oriole, a ketch commissioned in 1952
(Corrections to my numbers are welcomed)
I was once told we have a disproportionate number of Flag Officers to sailors so that we can ramp up quickly in case of war, it being easier to train the lower deck than to commanders. I wonder though, how long it’s been since our flag officers went to sea. Clearly we’re not in good shape.
I was at a RMC/West Point Hockey game a couple of years ago and there were 8 generals there, not in uniform. Apparently there are 129 generals for about the 65,000 man military. What the hell do they do? Only in Canada you say?
They could field an entire regiment of majors just from Ottawa.
Half the 65,000 are probably captains.
The frigates are way out of date, not even Aegis capable, the Kingston class are close to unarmed, and not ships of war, the De Wolfe class can’t get through a cruise without breaking down and being stuck at the nearest port, and the subs are too pathetic to even joke about. The United States Coast guard is an infinitely stronger navy. Like everything about Canada, a third rate joke.
The US military is bloated as well
World War 2 – 12,500,000 soldiers in uniform led by 2,000 generals and flag officers
2024 – 1,350,000 soldiers in uniform led by 1,000 generals and flag officers. The US military also has 750,000 civilians working for the Defense Department
I volunteered in 1965 – served 4 years in the US Army and by 1967 we had 3,500,000 soldiers in uniform – we’ve shrunk a lot since then.
Sebastian Gorka led a training exercise for a few hundred mid rank officers a few years ago at The Pentagon. He gave them an overnight assignment and said name the greatest threat to the US and how to fix it.
The answer: Global Warming
The fix: cut CO2
The US military is lead by very stupid, ignorant Woke officers. The Deep State planned it that way and likes it. Trump has a lot firing to do.
John
US Army 1972.
I had a 1LT (louser) We called him loser!
He was assigned to my “Dust-OFF” unit.
How he ever made it to LT is beyond me.
Exactly. It’s somewhat amusing to see General Milley, who has never won anything, in uniform with his chest covered with ribbons and medals then compare that to General Dwight D. Eisenhower who actually won a significant war with HTG about a half dozen ribbons.
$4.5 trillion GDP with a $51.8 billion defence budget doesn’t seem to equal 2%.
Even if you include the $19.2 billion in the special fund, and the $7 billion from other budgets, you come up short of the $90 billion for 2% for Germany, so there is something wonky with that chart or the government in question is trying to pull a Trudeau to juice the numbers.
Going down memory lane. Does the magazine “Crows Nest” still exist.
Also can’t remember the name of the winter exercise that was held in the Caribbean.
Any way the editor of the Crows Nest wrote.
Stood on the bridge (there was only one at the time) and watched the fleet sail for ???? all 4 of them.
You’ll never guess who got fired.
Landymore?
Sorry wrong. Landymore was already gone. I think the guy was a Leading Seaman.
I have a bunch of Crowsnest magazines somewhere in my basement. I’ll have to dig them out.
They used to have page in back that had drawings of ships with interesting little stories of naval exploits.
Here’s some info on Landymore and that idiot Hellyer.
https://militarybruce.com/going-down-with-the-ship-the-principled-sacrifice-of-rear-admiral-william-landymore/
I’d forgotten Landymore survived two sinkings.
US military spending = $849.8 billion
which is 2.89% of GDP ($29.35 trillion)
Trump proposed to cut US military budget in half.
https://www.barrons.com/articles/defense-military-spending-lockheed-northrop-stock-ada2cff3
This would be 1.44% of GDP
Check out the other countries grouped around Canada’s 1.4% military spending. They are all geographically tiny countries. Canada is a very large geographic country with the world’s longest coastlines. We have become farcical.
Commenting on relative percentages by an official at the Munich Security Conference:
“the closer to Russia, the bigger the percentage” [checking Kate’s chart]
Yup.
protection money
How many Canadians are employed at Indian Affairs and Immigration Canada?
Canada was an administrative decision written up to keep the folks in charge, in charge.
So no surprise that it’s become a paper tiger.
They lumped a bunch of stuff to pad the numbers. Pension to military vets, IT support, you name it. People asked what purpose does NATO serve now? It is the tool of globalists. Libya, Afghanistan, Ukraine. But as Afghanistan showed, NATO is is a paper tiger wher most nations volunteer for “support roles” in the money laundering operation rather than the combat roles.
Percentage GDP is getting old that way, you can lump a buch of bullshit to pad the numbers. What nations should be held to is operational units or capabilitites. So many brigades, so many ships, so many squadrons, etc. To be evaluated on readiness every couple of years (OPEVAL). This would promote efficiency.
I never know if posters like you are idiots or enemy fifth column or both. I am betting on both.
Canada talks tough but hides behind the U.S.A.
The only country that could attack Canada is the US. And doubling our defence budget would not change that one iota. We would however, be better equipped to participate in the various foreign wars the US gets involved in. I’m not sure that would be a good idea.
.
Note that Trump recently said he’d like to cut the US defence budget in half. Current US military spending is 2.89% of GDP. Cut the budget in half and you get 1.44% which is about Canada’s current level of defence spending..
Various estimates say the US population has between 400 to 500 million guns. So no country is going to militarily invade the US.
Perhaps a better answer for Canada is to allow more gun ownership by citizens, and to vigorously prosecute criminals who use guns in a crime (coupled with very long jail sentences when convicted).
Why does the US need 750 overseas military bases?. Perhaps it’s time to let foreign countries defend themselves? The US could drastically reduce the size of it’s Army and Marines, while maintaining a Navy and Air Force.
IMO.. The USA is no longer interested in post WW2 security arrangements.. The free ride is over for the EU.. They are rich enough and big enough to defend themselves.. I think that Greenland is where America wants to setup overwatch shop..
Russia.. In spite of their nuclear arsenal doesn’t have the juice to do much besides defend themselves.. A small s super power none the less.. = Europe’s problem..
The next war, cold or not will be with China.. America needs to realign itself along these lines.. That makes India the key player.. Like it or not they are our new best friend.. Europe, not so much..