43 Replies to “Cold, Wet Hands”

  1. there is nothing I own I want the government to “secure” I’m so effing mad, how dare they….

  2. I have a few additional questions. Who ordered the gun seizures? Were gun owners homes targeted for search and seizure and if so what database was used to target these homes? Why were guns seized from homes above the waterline if the primary impetus was a search for stranded/at risk citizens?

  3. We’re certain that in the time taken to steal these guns, had they taken 10 minutes to search each house in High River, it was physically impossible to break into, and search each house.
    Only houses that were known to have guns in them were searched for guns, some other houses were searched as part of “on going efforts”.
    No barns were burnt down. This time.

  4. “No barns were burnt down. This time.”
    Yeah well, pretty hard to burn barns down in a flood….
    Yeah that occurred to me a while back and I have since taken to referring to them as “barn burners”…….
    I wuz chatting with a acquaintance (retired cop)in Calgary about this…..he declared the “truth of the matter” was that they only took “a few” firearms, not “hundreds” and that they were just laying around…..
    I had to break the news to him that he now belonged to the US now not THEM…..I guess he’s still going through a period of adjustment….

  6. That’s about right. Stonewalling and silence on this will not help them.
    Surely to goodness the RCMP can’t be serious in pursuing the Mark Fuhrman “bloody glove” explanation: “we went over the wall to make sure Mr. Simpson was okay.” Pure insanity.
    “We were just trying to help people out.” Are you kidding me? Their posture du jour is making things worse for them, not better. Much better for all involved: just tell the truth, today, please. Which is precisely the advice they would give to any person they were investigating: time for them to realize that the investigators have become the investigated.

  7. so, non-elected public servants can dictate to the public that provides their pay cheque for them? What alternate universe do these assholes live in?

  8. so, non-elected public servants can dictate to the public that provides their pay cheque for them? What alternate universe do these assholes live in?

  9. Wait for it, the investigation will find the order was misread as it was auto-corrected by the commanders iPhone and was never meant to be acted upon.

  10. Kate, did you ever find out if the RCMP seized guns from the Cumberland Indian Reserve, as per your original post?

  11. To be fair to the fascists, a trigger lock doesn’t really make a gun secure, it just makes it temporarily non-functional. If a gun has a trigger lock but isn’t secured in a fashion to make it difficult for a thief to remove, the thief can easily take it with him to somewhere where he’ll have time and privacy to remove the trigger lock. Of course, that doesn’t make it any less disturbing that the thieves in question are government agents, but it’s important to be precise in our accusations lest we give the fascists more ammunition for their accusations of paranoia.

  12. There is NO authorization in the firearms act for police to arbitrarily size secured unregulated long-arms from locked evacuated residences – they claim this but there was obviously no reasonable cause to break and enter without permission – Crime #1. It is also impossible for them to have targeted only residences with firearms without the illegal use of a registry list – Crime #2.
    We won;t even mention the vast lying and obstruction they engaged in following this little crime spree. All I know is allowing this incident to be investigated by the RCMP is like sending a Pimp to lay charges against his hookers. This needs parliamentary or court ordered 3rd party inquiry, criminal indictment, firings and incarceration – this was an abomination of police function.

  13. I’m sure you’ll quote the relevant legislation that states that a trigger lock dosen’t satisfy safe storage, to back your statement.

  14. I live in High River. The RCMP were swiping guns that were secured in gun safes – some people had them fully secured in a gun safe, like my neighbour, and they still broke into it and took the guns. The RCMP committed further offences by getting my neighbour’s crowbar to break into people’s homes, like mine! We all want to know who ordered the break-ins and who authorized confiscation of guns and personal pot plants.

  15. STOP all multicultural programs and put everything into criminal investigations and prosecutions!!!
    From the RCMP clerk who took the calls to Alison Redfraud people need to go to jail!

  16. The RCMP have been known as murderers. Now they are thieves.
    Thieves and murderers. What a comedown for a once-proud force.

  17. Aizlynne >
    Not only what they illegally broke or stole, I’d be somewhat conserned with what they may have planted. Better search your house, paper and computer files, there’s god telling what else Alison Redfraud and her Stasi may have done to you.

  18. AndyN >
    There’s no need to get tied down with semantics. Legally stored requires a locked container, or trigger guard, or gun disabled nothing more.
    There have been well over 200 separate incidences of fiearms stolen directly from Canadian police armories in recent years. A large dissapearence in Vancouver not that long ago.
    Were those guns secure? Who do you thing stole them, and where do you think they are today?

  19. The registry list they would have been using doesn’t prove they still have access to the Long Gun Registry that is supposed to have been deleted. The registry of firearms licenses still exists and would have served just as well to tell them which homes needed “investigating.”

  21. Now whenever there is a disaster of any kind and people must abandon their home, they will be taking their guns and ammo with them so the police don’t steal them. Is that what the police think is a good result of their stupidity?

  22. If RCMP officers in the field stole firearms and those in HQ were in possession of stolen firearms then the crime is more than just thief, it is a firearms office. All RCMP personnel should be prosecuted for a firmarms office and the repercussion that they can’t thereafter own or use firmarms.
    Good little Nazi’s following orders. It didn’t work in Nuremburg, it shouldn’t work here. A few nails need to hit on the head to give the rest the message that they need to obey the laws of the land.

  23. Tooner – A PAL does not prove OWNERSHIP _ remember, you must have one just to borrow a gun or have access to guns someone else in the house may have – remember the clerks in sporting good at Canadian tire who were made to get a pal to handle firearms? Wives, girlfriends and relatives who must have a PAL if they have access to the safe or closet the gun is in? And of course now the sale of long guns is unregulated and unrecorded many with a PAL may not have guns now – for police to presume so is unjustified cause and certainly not reasonable suspicion.
    Personally I think if you believe there are not copies of the registry floating around in cop land or with B&E artists, you’re living in unicorn-rainbow city. The registry was hacked many times and you just know there are some hard headed fascists in the RCMP who re not going to let go of their number one tool to torment duck hunters with.

  24. I think some people believe safe storage somehow relates to preventing theft by strangers. Not so. The typical gun safe wouldn’t last 10 seconds confronted by a thief with a crowbar. It is intended to protect people living in the residence from their own stupidity.
    Like the Airborne Regiment that went rogue, time for the RCMP to die. They are my local police and the number of people who believe they are less than useless keeps growing. I wouldn’t doubt that they commit a lot more crimes than they ever solve.

  25. The person who ordered the removal of the guns should be charged with issuing “An unlawful order” and the cops who participated charged with breaking and entering and theft over X dollars.

  26. RCMP logic “Well once we broke down the locked door, anybody could just walk in and take the guns so we had to seize them.”
    I really want to see an in depth inquiry into this. One of the questions is were only houses where a PAL holder resides broken into? That would be proof of targeting gun-owners.
    My MP has snail-mailed me a response to my email inquiries which I expect to receive tonight. I suggest everyone contact their MP and let their displeasure at this breach of law and property rights be known.

  27. Yes, a PAL doesn’t prove you own or possess any firearms, but the list of PAL holders is enough of a target list for police to do what they did in High River so what they did there doesn’t prove any police made any copies of LGR data, and if we keep suggesting it does we give them something they can use to divert attention from what they actually did by discrediting us as conspiracy crackpots.
    I’m not in unicorn-rainbow city. I am sure the LGR data was carefully deleted as it should have been, and I realise that doesn’t guarantee that some of the data, indeed possibly a very large proportion, wasn’t illegally copied at some point and may be in the wrong hands.

  28. Andy,of course it doesn’t make it secure, we gun owners argued that from the beginning of the debate, BUT it IS the law.
    You do NOT have to have your guns in a safe, just trigger-locked,or the bolt removed. You can stick ’em in the bedroom closet in those conditions in complete compliance with the law.
    Reference the comment by “scar”. To make guns completely unavailable to a determined thief,owners would have to have them stored in a Bank-type safe.
    This will be swept under the proverbial carpet,but I don’t intend to take this lying down.E-mails to my MP,and Harper.It’s about bloody time the rogue police in this Country were made to obey the laws they were hired to enforce.

  30. MarkP:

    Kate, did you ever find out if the RCMP seized guns from the Cumberland Indian Reserve, as per your original post?

    Not likely…

  31. The rcmp are a poorly trained low level police force doing municipal policing for which they are poorly equipped. They should get out of it and perhaps be redesigned as some semblance of the FBI. Federal policing should be the focus.
    They are a political police force who bend to the wish of whoever is prime minister at the time. The most obvious abuse of this relationship came under cretien when zacardelli was the commissioner. A pair of criminals.
    The tragedy of this is represented by 20 year contracts with the Provinces to provide policing. Why does Alberta, Saskatchewan etc need Ottawa to provide it with a police force? This is ridiculous.
    My advice to kids, if you want to get into policing, the rcmp should be your last choice. This extends to any of the young members who are questioning their choice of careers. Get out of the outfit as soon as you can. It’s going nowhere.

  32. “They should get out of it and perhaps be redesigned as some semblance of the FBI.”
    Actually, they used to be a semblance of the FBI, counter-espionage responsibilities like the FBI included, but it seems the RCMP abused the authority and security powers they had been given(shocker) so that mission was taken from them and CSIS was created in order to separate the security powers from the police powers.

  33. AndyN –
    You make the mistake of arguing with these clowns and you will always lose. They view themselves as the law, and that it means what they say it means. They are the lords, the non-ruling class are serfs, who owe unquestioning obedience to their betters.
    The issue is, by seizing the guns the RCMP casually cancelled the most basic human right: the right to the preservation of one’s life by self-protection.
    To say the least, heads should roll until the RCMP publicly admits their error, and issues corrections to policy, eliminating gun confiscation from innocent citizens.

  34. 569 firearms “secured” by the RCMP from a town that had been evacuated and was surrounded by the police and the army. No flood victims found as far as I have heard.
    Secured. The Sergeant I saw at a recent news conference took pains to emphasize the word. It reminded me of the old joke about politicians: “how do you know when they’re lying? Their lips are moving”.
    If the Sergeant serves in a local detachment and is not just a Headquarters flunky, he’ll realize when many people want as little contact with him as possible, just how badly his bunch has lost the trust of regular people.

  35. Somebody who lived in Mexico told me to avoid the Federales because nothing good could ever come from talking to them. Same thing with Canada’s Federales.

  36. Weasel-words like “secured” are not going to erase the effect on those citizens that had their homes broken into. It matters not a whit what reasons the RCMP purport, the homeowners will always remember them as ignorant pricks with badges.
    The only hope the RCMP has of even minimal recovery of honour is to come clean quickly.

  37. Yeah, when a real crime is committed,the RCMP will be encouraging citizens to “report anything they know or may have seen”. Then they’ll lament that “no one wants to come forward”. This has occurred here on several occasions.
    I don’t know if it’s stupidity or arrogance,but the RCMP don’t seem to realize that the average person doesn’t trust them any more,and doesn’t want to get involved with them.
    I wrote here at SDA last year about the knife-wielding man that accosted my Son while he was out walking late at night.He called the RCMP, showed them where the guy lived,and waited for a call from them as to the resolution of his complaint.
    About a week later,I urged him to call the officer and find out what had happened.They said they hadn’t bothered to contact the guy as it might cause him further upset.Now that’s our national police force in action!
    “To serve and protect”, “Maintain the right”. Words.Just words.

  38. Clearly, the Harper Conservative government’s claim that eliminating the long gun registry would protect firearms from being arbitrarily confiscated by the police is false.
    The Firearms Act C-68 made simple possession of a firearm a criminal offense.
    A government only makes or maintains something to be criminal for the purpose of eliminating the practice.
    By not repealing C-68(1995) and retaining the part that makes simple possession of a firearm to be a criminal offense empowers and encourages confiscation by the police.
    All they requires is an excuse.
    The temporary P.A.L., a 5yr. Possession and Acquisition License simply registers the owner of the licence for “special treatment”.
    No government makes something a criminal offense or maintains it a criminal offence without wanting to eliminate it
    That is why the Harper government didn’t return to an F.A.C. or Acquisition licence.
    Dropping the policy promise of repealing C-68(1995) from 2005 to 2006 retaining 98% of it(100% C-17), decided by Harper, was smoke and mirrors. It fooled most.
    To be fair, the RCMP are just following the spirit of the Firearms Act.
    Ask your Conservative M.P. to explain and provide evidence to support C-17/C-68 that the Auditor General said didn’t exist.

  39. To be fair, the RCMP are just following the spirit of the Firearms Act.
    Horse pucky.
    There’s no onus on citizens “to be fair” to government forces. Instead, those forces are required to give great deference to the citizens. Which they didn’t, and which can’t be excused in the “spirit of the Firearms Act”.

  40. “Well once we broke down the locked door, anybody could just walk in and take the guns so we had to seize them.”
    Uh, what about other valuable items, like jewelery, coin collections, bikes, royal albert china, TV’s, computers…you know, carry away items?
    For those who had their door smashed, what guarentee those folks returned in time to get them fixed? Maybe some are still at friends places, or away.
    I still can’t phantom an idea of having a town ‘surrounded’ and patrolled by 160+ cops and countless military folk either in 4×4 vehicles and float boats, and they are worried about guns being stolen.
    I think that shows a greater issue, RCMP can’t protect a town from itself?

  41. I posted this under the Licia post, but needs to brought forward about the RCMP fall from grace.
    People soon forget that Licia did an article on the RCMP arresting a fellow named Nixon (brother to Pat who ran the Mustard Seed) on the word of a druggie that he was shooting horses. The cops came and arrested Pat’s brother I think on the ground, arms behind him, in front of his kids, like a major criminal.
    The druggie wanted the $25,000 reward money for “informing who did it”, as it turns out it wasn’t Pat’s brother and 1+1=2 the druggie did it for money.
    This sadly tells me a lot.
    Licia was the only reporter to expose the RCMP on this, but nothing more was said. So kudo’s for her.

  42. I hope High River citizens decide to purge the Red Scourge. Since there’s many millions of rebuilding happening already, a few million more for a local police department seems reasonable. It’s their town and they should be free to elect and hire their own police. This is supposedly a free country after all.

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