133 Replies to “MP Rathgeber”

  1. He has the right to his opinions and to leave caucus.
    However the place to fight this battle IMO is inside caucus and, more importantly and productively in EDA and province-wide policy meetings culminating in policy debate at the national conference. And at those meetings I can attest that this MP was 100% MUTE. Where has he been at the conventions regarding this issue for the past ten years?
    This MP’s actions only play into the hands of the LPC and the NDP. And i suspect that that is diametrically opposed to the wishes of his constituents.

  2. Don’t want to jump in here Gord, but it’s a party assuming the wishes of the electorate that caused the downfall of the Liberals.
    The free fall in the polls isn’t just because of Prince Justin.

  3. Virtually nobody gets elected to the House of Commons without the backing of a party. It follows that one should dance with the one what brung ya, except in extreme circumstances. Rathberger’s bill, which I support in its original form, is not an extreme circumstance.
    Had he gone to the wall over, say, Bill C-51, The Economic Recovery Act, which led to a $58 billion deficit budget (and that he voted for), I could understand, but this matter seems too trivial.
    http://openparliament.ca/votes/40-2/128/
    (I voted Conservative in 2004, 2006, & 2008, but not 2011, because of the deficit.)

  4. Rathgeber: “I still support and greatly respect the Prime Minister; I continue to question the decisions and actions of many of his advisors.”
    Like others here, I think Mr. Rathgeber should have tried to effect change from within the caucus.

  5. This is where being a libertarian is a benefit. I don’t feel obligated to defend any pol. party because I view all of them with cynicism, suspicion and mild contempt. The same feelings I have for journalists and the media who are now oh so concerned about the betrayal of the founding principles of the Reform Party. A party who they despised and whose principles are as foreign and icky to them as the westerners who supported Reform.
    I agree with MP Rathgeber. Something has happened to the Conservatives. Maybe Rathgeber is right and PMSH is getting bad advice. Perhaps the CPC MPs are getting too comfortable at the trough to make trouble. I’m not sure what has transpired but something has gone wrong. They need to figure out what and fix it.

  6. I hope this is just the start. Anything to get rid of Harper. The CPC is going to get hammered come the next election otherwise.
    I think Mr. Rathgeber should have tried to effect change from within the caucus.
    HE TRIED THAT. The CPC has firmly entrenched itself against the chance Ratherger was trying to affect. FTS. No surprise the PMO Palace Guards are here to sputter ‘b-but PARTY’.

  7. Change from within the caucus?
    The system is broken. Change will not be effected until self-interested, hardcore partisan assholes start putting their country ahead of their party.
    I don’t doubt Harper is a good man but he has lost all perspective. Ralph Klien(the only incumbent I have ever supported in a lifetime of voting)often talked about dome disease.
    Harper should be in intensive care he has such a severe case.

  9. The challenge is that there can be no change from within Caucus. The power is with the Sr. bureaucrats. MP’s are less significant than a vote bot. Their job is to show up when told to, and to vote as they are told. This is the modern system. It is a disgrace, but remember the point of getting power, is power. Ideology and morality, are slaves to the expediency of winning the next election. Meet your new boss, same as your old boss.

  10. For all those who think he should have worked from in the caucus: How many of you would clean a feces filled hot tub by sitting in it and not added to the feces and asking others to stop pooping in the said Hot-tub?
    It doesn’t work that way

  12. Grey Lady, well said
    Gord Tulk fixing it within the party would achieve nothing but dysfunction, it’s how we’ve gotten to this point in time. The whole system needs “fixing”, and that’s what many of us conservatives expect from a conservative gov’t, and we ain’t getting it. Now I understand that the gov’t serves ALL the ppl, and so should consider that when they pass legislation, but this bill didn’t need a compromise, it should have been passed as is.
    LC Bennett… I’m a large C conservative on most issues, but feel much the same way you do on political support. Then again I’v been called a renegade many times in my life:-))))

  13. Rathgeber did the right thing.Maybe this will wake Harper up to the fact that he is pissing off his constituency,big time!
    This is a warning shot across the bow,Mr.Harper. Next comes a full broadside!
    Won’t Justin look ever so cute greeting foreign dignitaries, Ahmadinejad,Assad, Putin,Obama when he’s PM?
    The American msm will probably love him as much as ours does.

  14. I’ve been watching the CPC and the PMO with increasing dismay in the last few months. I don’t understand what’s going on in their heads.
    I have no doubt that at the current pace, we are heading to the nightmare that will be Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.
    We have less than two years to shake some sense into the heads of the people we elected into power and get them to change course, or we are going to plunge back into the abyss of Liberal governance for the foreseeable future. With this the Conservative brand will have been badly wounded by the lack of principle and good faith that has been increasingly displayed in the last little while.
    I worry that Harper is fatigued of being PM.

  15. To date this MP has done nothing within the party to develop policy that would get him what he’s looking for.
    Nothing.
    So it rings very hollow for him to go it alone now, saying that he tried in caucus which is, of course, in camera. Unless his private actions were diametrically opposed to his public ones – in which case he’s a hypocrite, or he has really done very little in public or in private to work towards more disclosure.

  16. Furthermore, to those above who disparage the public party policy process I would point out that virtually every single action that the party has made while in power was preceded by public policies that were written and passed by the grassroots. EVERY SINGLE ONE.
    The Power from a policy level begins with the grassroots.

  17. It used to. Now the party wants nothing to do with the grassroots. Except to dictate.
    To date this MP has done nothing within the party to develop policy that would get him what he’s looking for.
    You are a liar and a swine.

  18. As a Reform Party member, I have given the current Alliance the benefit of doubt till now, Mr Rathgeber speaks for me.
    I have been waiting too long for any sign of conservatism from MP Harper and Co.
    This MP clarifies my own misgivings, I have pondering the need for an extremely conservative Canadian political party to provide cover for the current government to move to the middle.
    Much as the Reform forced the Liberals to act on fiscal responsibilities, this current big government, big spending and lawless government is Libtard lite to me.
    Maybe its time to dust of the Reform Party Platform and take a run at the Canadian Public, government at all levels is in breach of contract, they have taken our money,promised certain services and now fail to provide and openly acknowledge that they will fail even further in the future.
    We have no equality before the law, police and justice are FUBAR, property is not ours anymore, bureaucrats are judge jury and executioner, due process is gone( now its flexible),no one is held accountable in government, no one.
    By my standards government is my enemy, its cost grossly exceeds its benefit to me.
    Our government no longer honours contacts and exempts itsself from the law, unless it is drastically reduced in size and scope, govt is unaffordable.
    This current crop of politicians are gutless, it is obvious to most that the system is broken, destroyed by years of theft from within.
    Yet rather than tackle the spending, welfare and nanny state madness, all of these clowns are competing to loot the corpse .
    At what point do we call it treason?
    Mortgaging our grandchildren’s future for our ease today?

  19. Backbenchers rarely have any say in decisions.
    I’ve voted for Harper all these years. Because at one time he really did have principles.
    I believed him when he said things would change if he got a Majority.
    He may still feel a twinge now & again of the same patriotism of his youth.
    The Conservative Party has become ossified , into just another Central Canadian Oligarchy.
    I say this because of its actions. It reversal on Gun control. Allowing a body such as the None elected RCMP decide which guns are “good”, which “bad”.
    This Parties stalling of any free speech legislation. Indeed reversing itself in many cases. The vast Islamic immigration allowed even with the problems known in Europe. Our Police becoming just Militias for human rights courts with their courtiers.
    The undeniable loss of Individual rights. Inaction in Ontario on Caledonia. The supporting of the CBC propaganda ring.
    No elected, effective Senate.
    He has done some positive initiates like the CWB disband. It doesn’t take a fool though to know he had to do it , or separation of the West would have been an eventuality.
    The theatre of the long gun registry, that still exists. Was sloppily done, if in fact they really meant it. His only real accomplishment was walking out on Iran at the UN.
    Frankly these Conservatives have for all purpose become the new Liberals. reform died when they re-labelled this menagerie of red Tories with conservatives. It has become fat off tax payers while growing at geometric rates. You can see the educational horror we have become. With outright perverts in control. Blasphemy Laws against Christians, or other Religions, for Islam.
    I’ve always voted. Now I won’t. I just see three parties almost the same. Only the NDP will take us to hell on a toboggan, while the Liberals do the same only lifting your wallet along the ride.
    The Conservatives are just killing Canada slower.While they agonizingly do nothing but imitate the others by inaction.
    Vote ho’s all of them. Mean while Canadians have lost any political input, except every 4 years on who to vote to be their Masters. Not our representatives any-more. Ask yourself when was the last time you voted in a Plebiscite. Power is now centralised as hard as any Dictatorship. With a political police stuck on Multiculturalism. Enforcing pre-crimes, or thought crimes with vigour.
    Not a peep from the PMO’s office, no not one sigh even.
    Even his incremental style has faded into rhetoric.
    He has lost his base already. Now the scavengers come to pick the bones of what could have been a transforming moment for Canada in real Democracy.
    This man at least had the guts to admit it. Than vote the only way he could. He left the ship. I applaud him.
    No liberals or NDP would have .

  20. I doubt there’s anything I can say that will make Harper start acting like a conservative instead of a UN dupe or a damn liberal scum bag. Politicians…they all make wanna throw up in my mouth. Voting just encourages the bastards. I see a police state in the very near future. Hell…its almost here already. What’s next? The RFID chip in our hand? Even here in good old Saskatchewan, Brad Wall and his crew want to put computers on motorcycles so they can monitor our location, speed, acceleration and God knows what else. It won’t stop there either. But I’ll stop now, in case I write what I’m really thinking.

  21. Rathgeber is an A-hole. Every successful party is a coalition of people put together because they share some interests, not all interests. I was involved with the party in the Reform days and I do realize that without the involvement of the old PCs, we would be in perpetual opposition.
    Harper may not be the best candidate, just better than Martin, Dion, and Iggy and when the time comes, probably Trudeau.

  23. Harper always cowers when the feral left get angry, and the media is part of that feral leftwing movement. I agree with the MP, time for conservatives to decide Liberal Light Harper or an independent.

  24. This could be your next book in the making. The future looks ugly and it’s coming fast. Enjoyed your last one but it could have been longer 🙂

  25. Thanks peterj. And you’re right, the future does indeed look ugly and its coming fast. I don’t worry for myself, but I do worry for my kids and grandkids.

  26. “…I agree with MP Rathgeber. Something has happened to the Conservatives….”
    Amen.
    Good for him. Wish there were more like him in that stable of neutered sheep.

  27. “Harper may not be the best candidate, just better than blah, blah, blah…”
    ‘Not the best, but better than’ IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

  28. Actually yes it was – at the Winnipeg convention in ’08 is was agreed that cda join the rest of the g20 in spending 3-4 Percent of GDP without increasing taxes.
    I’m not shouting – and you’re not listening.

  30. I’m with LCB and the others here.
    Something has happened to the ‘conservatives’, they appear to be complete CINOs, their policies and actions lately resemble Liberal and soft NDP, rather than CONSERVATIVE values.
    Interference in the banking sector.
    Interference in the telecom sector.
    Excessive debt. No cuts to the CBC or federal service, of any significant proportion.
    Has the PMO suffered an alien invasion? They have disturbingly moved away from true conservative values.

  31. To date this MP has done nothing within the party to develop policy that would get him what he’s looking for.
    Um. He crafted this bill. RTFA.
    at the Winnipeg convention in ’08 is was agreed that cda join the rest of the g20 in spending 3-4 Percent of GDP without increasing taxes.
    1) ‘Agreed’ is a nice euphemism for ‘dictated by Father Steve’. 2) Spending has not come down since.
    Guys it’s important to remember that Gord Tulk and those like him are ‘Parsons’ from 1984.

  32. I consider Harper the best PM Canada has ever had.
    I commend his work on transforming the Canadian economic and political infrastructure from its old Quebec-Ontario centralism to its inclusion of and increasing the power of the West. And his work on moving the identity of Canada from that Quebec-Ontario bloc to one that includes the West and importantly, the North; and his work on reminding Canadians of their history – something denied in the ‘we are just a handmaiden of the UN Pearson-Chretien days.
    Then, there’s his reduction of corporate taxes, his strengthening of the small business economy, his strengthening of family economic power.Canada is internationally recognized as one of the strongest economies in the G8- stronger than the US – and that’s due to Harper.
    His revamping the immigration rules to emphasize Canadian values. Getting rid of the Wheat Board, cutting of the Human Rights powers.
    His insistence on decentralization rather than the old centralization with his moving more economic and social decisions to the provinces, ie, to local decision-making.
    His rejection of Kyoto, his throwing out the Iranian embassy staff, his support for Israel, his refusal to attend the Durban anti-semitic conference.
    Many of you here seem to think that he can and should do whatever you want. But he’s the PM of all Canadians not just you. Sure, it would be great to get rid of the CBC but he’s not a dictator; there’s a large section of the left who want it – and he’s their PM as well as yours. Did you appreciate Chretien and Trudeau running Canada to suit only their leftist ideological agenda and ignore others?
    Are you aware that multiculturalism, which Harper obviously dislikes (consider his refusal to inquire into the ‘sociological reasons’ for terrorism)..well, multiculturalism is the law. It’s in our Constitution. Just because you and I and a lot of other conservatives don’t like it doesn’t mean that Harper or the CPC have the power to change the Constitution. They don’t. It requires the support of the provinces.
    Harper would like either to get rid of or to get an elected Senate. People have to get fed up with it in order to demand changes.
    Many of the comments on this thread seem to refer to provincial or municipal goverments or to non-existent situations. I won’t go into them all but this thread seems to fit into the rhetoric of the Toronto Star and the CBC and CTV etc – all part of the leftist media and all endlessly focused on ‘getting rid of Harper’. Heh – they all love the Baby Doc Trudeau with his empty vapid rhetoric.

  33. ITT people who are in love with Harper and need psychiatric help. Seriously, ET, you Harper and a shrink-get a room. No need for wall-of-text loveletters based on your delusions.

  34. The problem, LAS, is that in any debate, you can’t just proclaim your conclusions. You have to provide reasons for your arriving at that conclusion.
    Just because you disagree with my support of Harper is irrelevant. You have to provide reasons for your conclusion that IF one likes the work that Harper has done, THEN, this means that one needs psychiatric help.
    Can you do that? Can you show that my, or anyone’s support of what Harper has done (some of which I’ve listed)shows that the person has a psychiatric problem? Can you do that?
    Or are you just showing off your leftist credentials, which means, that if you reject someone’s opinion, you don’t debate. You just personally insult them. Is that what you are doing?

  35. Good post,ET. Too many people forget the years of Liberal abuse. Current Conservative scandals are trivial in comparison.

  36. The bill is the first public thing he has done on this. I nor you know what he has done if anything in the past. Looks to me like he’s reacting to current events rather than any deep longstanding position.
    The delegates agreed in Winnipeg – no one – including me – was told how to vote. Your accusations are false.

  37. Looks to me like he’s reacting to current events rather than any deep longstanding position.
    So what?
    The delegates agreed in Winnipeg – no one – including me – was told how to vote.
    Ah, so you’re sheep. Or more like lemmings.
    ET: could please be more sophomoric? I’m trying to see if peak sophormorism can be attained.
    In any event, this is what you have: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_worship

  38. ET, it’s pointless addressing anything to LAS. He’s never presented anything resembling a reasoned argument, and he’s not about to start now.
    As for CBC, it’s a self-correcting problem. The CBC starts to fold up financially as soon as it loses the HNIC advertising contract in two years. And Harper, and the Cabinet and the CBC all know this. Why else would CBC execs be scrambling around lately like ants about to have kerosene poured into the anthill? Hastening the process artificially only raises political obstacles which could force a government bailout.
    What many seem to want here is more accountability by the PM and PMO to MPs. At one time there was complete accountability, and the moment when it was lost can be stated precisely. It happened the instant that Canada adopted delegated conventions to pick party leaders rather than the old method of picking by caucus members as is done in Britain. That was the instant that party leaders gained a political base independent of caucus, and thus MPs no longer had any hold whatsoever over the leadership. A backbench coup could no longer unseat the leader.
    The current trend of having direct elections by all party members simply removes the leadership further. By such a system and by giving the leader such a broad base of political support, the leader will not even have to listen to the party brass, let alone the MPs. And accountability of the PMO to the rest of caucus or the party will diminish even further.
    So, boys and girls, which system do you really want?

  39. The PMO is too powerful and I have seen Parliamant from close, some years ago. This is what he is saying.

  40. Nope, LAS, that’s not how to discuss an issue. Insults are a cop-out. Now, if you reject my support for Harper, then, just insulting me personally is juvenile.
    Provide your rebuttal of the points I’ve raised in support of Harper. Otherwise, there can’t be any discussion!

  43. cgh, nice post. Yes, I agree with you about LAS; I’ve never seen him make a fact-based argument. It’s always personal insults.
    And I’m hopeful for the demise of the CBC.
    I don’t know about the process and methods of ‘delegated conventions’ so can’t comment on them.
    Is the problem about ‘the power of the MPs versus the PM’s office’? – I can see that there would always be tension because these two ‘sets’ have different agendas. That is, the MPs of a party are direct representatives of their constituency, while the PM’s Office is an indirect representative of all Canadians. That’s very different.
    I can see that the PM’s Office can become too isolated and powerful. That’s one issue but that doesn’t mean that I reject Harper as PM; I’d just query the necessity of such a powerful office.
    I think we have to be aware that a government is not identical with a political party – that’s what Obama has done to the US; he’s rejected his duties to people who didn’t elect Him. A government, as a political party in itself, has an ideology but as a government it has a duty to those outside of that ideology.
    Many of us can agree that the Senate is a mess, both in its operation and its role and some of its members. That includes members from both political parties.
    But how easy is it to get rid of it? It’s entrenched in the Constitution. The most Harper can try for is an elected Senate. And of course, rigid controls over expenses. But that includes controls over MP expenses, eg, the extravagance of the Baby Doc Trudeau.

  44. My reaction to this was that Rathgeber is doing a bit of grandstanding.
    He’s right about the accountability issue and being jerked around by other conservatives but he’s wrong to be pulling this stuff when the focus needs to be elsewhere.
    The more I think about it … the more I believe his his actions are self serving.
    He can bleed and bleat all he wants about high ethical motives, but that might just be his rationalization. I really doubt that the constituency back in Calgary wanted him playing the martyr role over what is essentially a distraction.
    Just because you can do something does not mean you need to or should do it.

  45. ET, I too have been a Harper fan, and understand political reality reasonably well, I think. I have no dispute with your praise of him.
    But that’s not the issue here.
    What are your perspectives on
    -the Duffy et al mess and how Harper dealt with it
    -the Wright mess and how Harper dealt with it
    -why Rathgeber’s bill was killed.
    These are issues of principle AND of smart politics, and I don’t see Harper as having done either the right thing on either account.

  47. The current large PMO began under the reign of PET. I don’t blame him or the liberals – it was and is a product of the video age when we saw the role of party loyalty wane and that of leader politics wax. The American presidential/white house model of govt is a better fit for the video age. The PMO emulates this.
    And it works. At least in lieu of any other alternative. Is it anti-democratic. Arguably so, but a counter would be that the PMO (and the White House – at least pre-Obama) is far more attuned to current public opinion than individual MPs (or congressmen or senators).
    I don’t claim to have a better system other than to argue that a EEE senate would be far more independent and a powerful provincial counter to the PMO and as a result would likely give MPs more freedom – confidence votes would possibly become a thing of the past.

  49. Well said ET, I thank You for the post!
    While I deplore having to fund the CBC, I suspect the mindset at CTV still very much tilts to the left to Liberal and ND territory and are happy to stir the Rathgeber pot.

  50. well said, Gord.
    perfection should never be made the enemy of the good.
    If you want someone better than Harper or your local MP, then step up and put your name on the line that is dotted…

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