This comment from SDA regular Stan was too important not to repost. It’s technically about the Vancouver Riot but really is about so much more:
We are endlessly blathered at by the Left about real and imaginary rights, but the concept of responsibilities is never mentioned, especially the basic responsibility for a citizen to not be an asshole.
And while some rights seem terribly important to them the right to not have your store looted and burned down doesn’t get a whole lot of air time. The right to not get beaten by drunken thugs who are destroying your livelihood isn’t big on their song sheet either.
As much as the cops dropped the ball [in Vancouver], if you have to have a cop standing beside you to keep you from beating a shopkeeper, something is wrong.
That said, the way to stop the next riot is to quickly throw a bunch of these rioters in jail for extended stays.
Send a message to those who can’t figure out how to act like human beings.
Quite worthy of its own post. Applause to Stan and Robert.
Arm shopowners with rubber bullets and rocksalt shot and I guarantee you that the spoiled brat rioters will think twice.
A fine post and point well made.
One thing worth remembering, is that this is not a recent phenomenon. Halifax has had two perfect examples of this behaviour for no other reason than they knew they could get away with it.
The WWII Halifax riot 66 years ago and the ’81 police strike. I was 17 for the strike. A bud of mine and our girl friends at the time were on a double date at the local drive-in. The news came over the radio before the movie started. The drive-in went from full to about 6 of us left in about 10 minutes.
“…especially the basic responsibility for a citizen to not be an asshole.”
The left doesn’t believe in personal responsibility, they do however very much believe in being assholes, providing – it’s they that are the antagonists, and that there are plenty of police and rules by their standards to stand between you and their antagonism.
I still stand by the hypothesis that the Vancouver riot was a product of the cities overwhelming passive aggressive Liberalism let loose.
Great post, Stan, particularly the first lines.
I think restorative justice is needed. These rich spoiled brats can get their hands dirty and clean up the glass and scrub the unmentionable filth they left behind. Don’t let mummy, daddy and lawyer from the country club intervene. Have those who would defend such thuggery pay for new windows.
would that our politicians were as astute as Stan!!
Applause to Stan and Robert is right. When the authorities refuse to protect the citizenry anarchy runs rampant.
Story time. This reminds me of what my maternal grandmother told me about fifty years ago. After the 1917 Russian revolution the police either were killed or ran away and melted into the population and the people were defenseless against murderers and robbers. In what is now southern Ukraine, the Makhnovist anarchists took what they wanted and killed wantonly until the Austrian and German troops occupied the area from March 1918 until November 1918. Previous to the soldiers coming it was not safe for women to be outside at any time of the day. After the troops came and declared martial law the women could walk around at any time of day without fear. The moral here is that thugs of any sort only respect authority and when it is used.
The rioting in Vancouver was an abdication of authority. This abdication is happening all too often and encourages more rioting.
I once saw on SA television a pictorial display of robbers who were beaten by their would-be victims..the ‘victims’ were merchants or private citizens who carried weapons of self defense.
One of the robbers had the whole left side of his face caved in with 2 blows from a telescoping baton..another had his jaw broken and separated from the joint by a blow from a small bat..yet another took the entire contents of a double barrel into his knees and was crippled for life..
Not surprisingly, none of the former crooks wished that they had ever decided to rob anyone, ever..but it took physical punishment to get their thinking straight.
Isn’t it surprising what a devastating blow, delivered with conviction and extreme prejudice, will do?
In Afrika, the folks live to see another day..here, they would throw you in jail for the rest of your life while giving your assailant the Order of Canada.
Bring back stocks and public flogging. Public humiliation was a big deterrent. The present juvie-justice system only makes it worse by giving the criminals anonymity. The older criminals use the juvies to do the dirty work cuz they know they won’t be punished.
Ann Coulter made an excellent point recently (may have seen the vid here actually). Wheil discussing the London riots she did a parallel acknowledgment to the US college campus anti-Viet Nam war protests in the 60’s. Her closing line was “there weren’t a whole lot of riots after Kent State were there?”. I tend to agree.
Wheil = While. Oy.
Children, or those adults who choose to act like children, are always going to try to “test the limits”, to see what they can get away with. The Vancouver riots didn’t happen instantaneously: a few jackasses did some stupid things, nothing happened to them, and more and more people did more and more stupid things as a result.
I would wager that if the so-called police had fired one, single warning shot in the air at the outset, the whole riot would have never happened.
The right not to be looted would be equivalent to acknowledging property rights which would undermine just about everything the left is trying to accomplish.
Again, I blame our lame judiciary. A number of culprits were caught on video, laughing and celebrating as they made off with swag.
How many have been jailed? How many have been fined? How many have been ordered to make restitution?
I don’t understand the mentality of these people. Simple control theory tells you if you want to stop or limit something, you impose negative feedback. But because our judges are so lax, which makes our police more cynical about our so-called “justice” system, no one gets prosecuted, no one has to pay, no one has any negative consequences.
Unless you were smoking a cigarette. Then you’re a pariah.
(P.S. I don’t smoke myself.. I just think if others make that choice, that’s their decision)
turtle, it is bad policy for police to fire a “warning shot”…gravity dictates that the bullet has to come down somewhere, and even at 130 mph, or whatever the maximum speed of an object falling back to earth from about a 2 mile height ( I forget the specific speed), that small bullet can do considerable damage to someone completely unconnected with the event. Lesson being: never fire a weapon unless you are sure where the bullet is going.
Having been involved as a RCMP member in riot troop in earlier days, always held in reserve, as it happily turned out, except for one occasion, we had a system. It consisted of having a couple of busloads of fully equipped and fully trained riot control members in buses, parked away from view. When the situation began to overcome the “soft hat” police officers, we were deployed. And once deployed, faced with a solid line of threatening and capable riot control officers, the situation diminished and the rioters ran away. We could clear a street in minutes.
In my experience, not that many municipal PDs follow that example, largely because they hate acknowledging that the RCMP actually knows what it is doing.
No mystery, however…this type of tactic has been successfully used since the days of Alexander the Great.
On a personal note (heh), while in Calgary and on drug enforcement, I had a mini-riot outside my residence fairly late at night. Led by a guy I had busted about 4 times for trafficking, about 40 idiots stood outside my house, egged the place, and were yelling very unflattering slogans about my penchant for enforcing the law.
Frankly I didn’t care, but it was upsetting my wife and my neighbours.
So…leaving the gun inside I went out and confronted those who were protesting. Since I am a true baseball fan, I happened to have a baseball bat in my hand.
I spoke nose-to-nose with the “leader” and advised him that in the absence of their dispersal within about 60 seconds, it would be time for me to initiate batting practice.
They were gone in 45….heh.
The bottom line is that when you divorce rights from responsibility you end up with a very sick society. We have done exactly that with all our HRCs, hate laws and multiculturalism.
I recall from history class about half a century ago, that the riots of the French revolution were unstoppable…until the little Corsican was given the task. He let it be known that he would load cannons with grapeshot and he would fire on the rioters.
They didn’t believe him.
He fired.
No more riots.
Sometimes it seems a pity that we’re now too civilized for that.
Rioting and mob rule can destroy a civilization. Crushing mobs should be the response…and citizen support should be encouraged, not discouraged.
As a non Canadian, I would point out similarly what other posters here noted about the use of force. Here, south of the border during the LA riots, the stores that weren’t looted were the ones guarded by the shop owners armed with shotguns. “Can’t we all get along” is just meaningless tripe when it is not backed up with force. Human nature does not change from age to age nor from country to country, sadly even for Canadians.
Those who are lawlessly inclined respect only one thing – force. It matters not if 9,999 are lawful, the damage is always done by one. There will always be some individual(s) who believes they don’t have to follow the rules much less respect the property of others. That’s why jails exist, even in Canada. If you want to be in a land where everyone respects the rules and respects your rights without force, then my friends you must leave this earthly tent and go to heaven, but then you must submit to a selection process where the riff-raff are kept out.
In the meantime here on earth with an all inclusive society giving the riff-raff a second chance, a civil/polite society is an armed society. The highest level of civilization is not order with the absence of force, as it exists only with the measured, descrete, consistent and determined use of force on those who threaten the established order via chaos/anarchy. Freedom then is the knife’s edge between dictatorship and chaos.
Dangerous animals, like wolves or coyotes, learn to behave pretty quickly when you shoot one of’em. Our ‘precious snowflakes’ may be a little slow because they’re not taught to think, but they can learn too…
“there weren’t a whole lot of riots after Kent State were there?”
does that include the student who was on his way to class, had NOTHING to do with the riot and who is featured in that iconic photo of the aftermath?
http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=kent+state+massacre&hl=en&biw=1024&bih=629&gbv=2&tbm=isch&tbnid=5pBrEMepKJNjuM:&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kent_State_massacre.jpg&docid=jZM0_hKFRffvHM&w=300&h=238&ei=L4RkTpGIIs3fsQLjwrywCg&zoom=1
and this link regarding Ms Scheuer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Scheuer
and from that link:
“She did not take part in the Vietnam War protests that preceded the shootings. She was shot through the throat with an M-1 rifle from a distance of 130 yards (119 m) while walking between classes and died within five or six minutes from loss of blood. According to the account of Bruce Burkland, a close family friend, Scheuer “was walking with one of her speech and hearing therapy students across the green. Neither Sandra nor the young man had anything to do with the assembly of students on the green.”
did you all get that? Scheuer had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the protest. get that into your goddamm right wing heads finally. NOTHING to do with the rotc building, organizing or participating in the protest or anything remotely related to it.
here’s another interesting read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Schroeder_%28Kent_State%29
the right wing CONTINUES to be a pure death cult as exemplified at SDA.
and a message to brucey:
in august 2005 I attempted to report a theft to London police and got LAUGHED IN THE FACE.
since that day a total of SEVEN cops around here are now DEAD.
seeing that the Lord Almighty has the final say in who lives and who dies, I attribute this toll to His intervention. because after all, He saw the whole thing happen, the single most egregiously offensive thing in my whole life, getting LAUGHED AT by the cops when I was trying to report a theft. anyone reading this feel free to call sgt cam halliday of the London police ‘professional’ standards at 519-661-5781 and tell him that it’s because *he* claims the laughter never happened that *I* continue to tell anyone and everyone about this little cause and effect.
goddamm useless pigshyts thought they could ‘get away with it’ but now we see just how heavy the price they continue to pay for their bullying.
Little ol’ moron gets right to the point, non? The left is usually all about forcing the citizenry to obey the government. The government can tell you what you can and cannot say, whether you can spend your own money on your own health, what kind of car you can buy, how you can (and cannot) generate the electricity to power your house, and even how much carbon dioxide you can and cannot emit (if they think that human-emitted CO2 is such a threat to the environment, why is it that liberals can never seem to SHUT UP and stop emitting it?).
But according to the left, the one thing the government CANNOT tell you to do is NOT rampage through the streets, burn shops and police cars, and assault law-abiding citizens. The government ABSOLUTELY MUST NOT force you to obey laws necessary for public safety. Pointless laws, sure – the government is absolutely right to fine you if you don’t wear a seatbelt or a bike helmet, but the government must NOT prevent you from throwing molotov cocktails through store windows and tipping over police cars. The government is absolutely right to gag you to prevent you from saying mean things that might possibly, some day, hurt the feelings of some designated victim group, and it’s absolutely right to prosecute you in response to hysterical sputterings from professional grievance-mongers – it just can’t stop you from ACTUALLY victimizing people by splitting their heads open and burning their stuff. According to fascist bolsheviks like Little ol’ Moron, the one form of state intervention and control in our lives that ISN’T justified is the maintenance of public order.
If you think about it, and if you know more history than just liberal white guilt pabulum about the slave trade and smallpox blankets, then it makes sense. It’s hard to have a storming of the bastille or a revolutsiya oktabraskaya or a cristallnacht if the cops are actually doing their job. It’s even harder for the liberal mob to overthrow the state if the citizenry are allowed to bear arms and defend themselves, their families and their hard-earned property against rampaging, lawless, drunken, overprivileged narcissistic nihilists.
The core tenet of liberalism, after all, is to treat the citizenry like wards of the state, so I suppose it’s only natural that the only right that liberals actually reserve to the people is the right to act like spoiled, whiny, useless brats.
“The right not to be looted would be equivalent to acknowledging property rights which would undermine just about everything the left is trying to accomplish”
Yes, but property rights would require a Constitution worthy of the name, and not that worthless liberal piece of trash that’s only useful when the Charmin runs out.
mhb23re
at gmail d0t calm
little troll moi comes up with the bloody shirt on cue like a trained poodle. Good boy, you get a biscuit!
Just for the sake of it, in your estimation how many National Guard soldier’s lives would have been worth spending to save that one STUPID girlie, who was such a fool as to walk around like it was Sunday afternoon when there was live ammo flying?
She wasn’t a victim, she was a frickin’ Darwin Award winner. “Just walking to class” next to rioters attacking soldiers? I’m sorry, I just can’t scrape up a tear for for a chick too spaced-out to hit the dirt when rifles are going off 100 yards away. Stick your head in the blender why don’t you?
mhb, I too agree that johndoe124 has hit the nail on the head, and little troll moi confirms it. Property rights are so bourgeois.
The left abducated personal responsiblity and replaced it with a fake condition called the “Human condition”. The theroy behind that condition is that it is societies fault when people act like savages, thugs and retards. It’s not a valid theory, however; the HRC’s across the land will enforce this loopy upside down ethos.
Has anyone ever been to a court in Canada? Let’s say I kidnap a woman for a weekend and rape her all weekend. Threats and maybe violence would be the norm to get her to sccumb to my wishes…..ah…I am arrested….first offence…..didn’t get caught for the others……I would be sentenced to approx: 5 years in jail….I would take all the programs…be a model prisoner and be out in about 2 years. Do you really think that acts as a deterrent for a potential rapist? There is no justice in Canada…there is just us.
Break and enter a dwelling many times and you just might get 6 months when you are caught…the law says the maximun sentence for this offence is life imprisonment. When the heck would that happen? Not only is our justice system a joke but so is our Criminal Code…the name is correct it is a code for the criminal.
One thing you can say about the USA….they have a law and when you break it, you go to jail…dah
People there also have the right to defend themselves, their loved one and property without the fear of being charged….
I thought the law was for the people, not for cops, judges and politicians, etc. It’s time for people to take over. Form a colitian of citzens in each city, town who has the duty to take over a situation when the police, govt wont….e.g. Caledonia, OKA, Vancouver riots, etc. This would put an end to terrorism in Canada. After all it is always the local people who have to change government.
With regards to Kent State, I guess despite what le troll said above it would be correct to assume – There would have been no National Guard presence on campus had there not been a riot. A simple example of the logical procession of events so inconvenient to those that wish to cast blame elsewhere.
moi clearly demonstrates how the mob works.
Create havoc and disturb the peace.
When somebody gets hurt, blame those trying to keep the peace.
It’s the mob, stupid.
Not much wiggle room around that post Stan for the lefty’s to snivel about, it was evident when be-little responded instantly with an accusation.
Great comment,
More of a deterrent than police presence is castle doctrine, where property owners get to defend themselves and their businesses with lethal force under the law.
Bloody and dying and/or dead looters in the main entrance to a store will cause the vast majority to move on.
It’ll never happen in Canada though.
Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are gunning us down
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew her
And found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?
DN – well said, but a shorter version of it would be “Smoke in public, get a fine. Make someone’s livelihood burn, be celebrated.”
Moi, would you agree that she would have been safer if there had been no riots in the first place? I’m not talking about the cause of the riot, I’m talking about violence on campus. If there were no violent activities there (action or reaction) then she would have been safe. Following that question comes the question of who brought the war discussion (or diatribe?) to the campus, since the battle was far, far away.
That’s an excellent post, well worth repeating.
Stan does overlook one key item (not yet legal in Canada) which would put a sudden chill on such leftist mob behaviiour, and that is allowing citizens with NO criminal records the right to carry handguns, as in most American states.
It’s been my experience (I’m a dual citizen, half my time in Ontario and half in the U.S.) that the mere sight of a holster and/or handgun in the possession of an ordinary citizen cools the ardor of would-be bad actors faster than ANYTHING else I’ve ever seen in action, including tear gas or police dogs.
When seconds count, the cops will be there in minutes … or not.