The two suits on either side of Santelli don’t get it. Never will. Neither does a Dem apparatchik named Joshua Green who writes for The Atlantic. Read this latest missive from him and learn how the Media Party works hard to shape the news in favour of Leftist ideology.
Note: In no scenario do any of these “experts” have any inclination/plan/idea for the American gov’t to ever live within its means. How they sleep at night, knowing what future havoc they’re helping their country to get into, is beyond my comprehension.
Rick Santilli on the mark again. Households have to balance a budget but leftie governments will not give up their dream entitlement programs. The talking suits want to frame the argument that the debt ceiling in not the crux while it’s plain that it’s exactualy the right time to force a change.
bverwey
Robert W. (Vancouver)
I suspect most sleep well, like babies even. They do so because they believe they are the best and brightest. They went to the best University’s and studied under the most acclaimed tenured professors. The most regurgatory of the lot are encouraged to seek post grad degrees so they can become the next generation of tenured profs.
That tenure has created an incestuous intellectual cesspool never occurs to them.
How could they be wrong?
We’re hooped…
Yeah, now’s the time…. for rural conservative welfare bums like Michele Bachmann to give back the $$$hundreds of thousands upon billions they’ve swilled from the trough. Until then, small dead hypocrites, wake me when it’s over.
tirador
I disagree, they’re hooped. By they I mean those too far removed from the basic realities of life.
Food, clothing, shelter, security. Take a look at Maslow’s hierarchy of needs and tell me that the left is not fixated on the top two tiers of the pyramid while they deride the bottom three tiers.
It’s only a matter of time until they self actualize themselves out of existence.
Just read Fox News – forget about it. Boehner caved. No one on either side gets it. It is laughable and Canada is no different. Politicians exhorting the public to live within their means while they gorge at the trough. Reality doesn’t even enter into it.
He didn’t get all weepy again, did he?
Almost every government is addicted to debt. Like any addict, they won’t kick their addiction until they hit rock bottom. With debt addition rock bottom happens when no one will lend you another buck. Look what happened in Canada in 1995 when a T-bill issue was not fully subscribed. T-gar and his crew cut spending (largely by cutting transfer payments to provinces for social programs) and started running surpluses.
Robert W. (Vancouver)
Joshua Green employs the main tools in his tool box…..outright lying….the impass has little to do with the debt ceiling….the impass is both OBOZO and the DemocRATs refuse to make spending cuts and insist on further spending…..with massive taxation.
Maslow’s hierarchy of needs…Thanks for that, syncrodox.
Just showed that to my eight year old, with an explanation, of course.
Almost every government is addicted to debt.
Posted by: Norm
______________________________
No, they’re addicted to spending. Debt is just the means to that end.
flaunagirl
Good on you. Teaching our children important concepts is our job. Foundational knowledge has been disregarded for pop-culture shadows of the same.
Self esteem for instance. Our Dr. Spock inspired culture came to believe that parents and teachers were responsible for safegarding self esteem.
Sadly, they entirely miss the self part.
Just read Fox News – forget about it. Boehner caved. No one on either side gets it.
~Anne Ashton
Eric Cantor told Boehner he’ll face a caucus revolt.
Boehner can tell Obama any stupid thing he wants and the other GOP reps still have a vote.
-House Majority Leader Eric Cantor had said he would not support such a plan. On Saturday, the Wall Street Journal editorial page added to the pressure on the speaker: “Mr. Boehner shouldn’t bet his majority on Mr. Obama’s promises,” the editorial stated.
It ain’t over until the votes are counted, Anne.
That was my thought, too, Oz. Should be an interesting weekend.
Dirtman
They are addicited to debt. Without debt the levels of required taxation would bring a halt to additional spending. If the Dominion government needed to raise $50 Billion more in tax each year fewer taxpayers would demand additional spending. By keeping taxes low (reletive to spedning) through debt governments can lavish the goodies and keep taxes low. Everybody be happy! Except the next generation who must either pay the debt or see savings vanish in monetary inflation.
The inflation of the 1970’s & 80’s wasn’t fueled by debt but by OPEC! /sarc off/
Just watched the movie Company Men.
I recommend it. Why? Because the movie reminds us how capitalism should work. There is excess fixed capacity in a market, so a firm shuts down some of their capital, sells the capacity, and fires staff. And what happens? Someone decides to buy that capital on the cheap, and hire the people on the cheap (at a fraction of their former salaries) and make a go of it.
And what should we see in an economy where there is excess capacity? We should see falling wages and falling prices. Because when times are tough people should work for less. And if firms don’t cut salaries, someone else should snap up the people and make a go of it. And if there is excess capacity and that forces bankruptcy, someone should buy the capacity out of bankruptcy and make a go of it.
And yeah, that’s a simplification, but that’s how it should work.
But if I lived in the United States right now, why would I bother? Why would I bother to go and start a business? Because if I make a profit, the government takes 40% of my profit to start. And then on top of that, if I actually hand the money back to myself they tax that at 15%. So I pay 40% of my profit even if I want to reinvest, and I pay another 15% if I hand the money out to myself.
And so I take all the risk of putting my capital up, human or financial, and the government takes 40% of my upside right off the top, and I take all the downside. And if I ever want to see a dollar of earnings in my pocket, I have to earn $2 of profit. And on top of that, if I hire any employees I have all these regulatory obligations. And I have to fill out a million goddamn forms every time I buy or sell ANYTHING. And I am competing against firms that use offshore havens and transfer pricing TO AVOID ALL THE TAX.
And on top of that, if I want to actually manufacture anything, the probability of getting regulatory approval is nil. Hell, who wants a factory in their backyard nowadays? No one wants to be near a plant that actually makes something! And if I did manage to get a plant up and running, I’d be competing against Chinese workers who will work for a fraction of my local labour. Fair enough. But what’s unfair about that is that half of their cost advantage is because of their fixed currency.
And so of course now Chinese inflation is running rampant because of US monetary policy because the competitive advantage isn’t actually real. It’s an illusion created by government intervention in the market, and the US government just isn’t willing to do a damn thing about it.
And so if I actually managed to jump through the regulatory hoops to start my firm, and the local community didn’t lodge a complaint to keep my factory from going up, and I somehow managed to be innovative enough to fight the cost advantage of China resulting from their currency controls, and I managed to out-compete the large firms who utilized offshore tax strategies to keep themselves from having to pay out 40 cents of every dollar to the government, well then I could be subject to the risk of the government coming in at any time and taking over my firm if it was in trouble for the good of the state and the people! Congratulations to me! And for all that, well I could keep 50 cents of every dollar of profit that I made!
Why do you think no one is creating any jobs in the United States right now? Is it because capitalism is broken? No, it’s because it’s no longer capitalism.
You know how much the government takes from every dollar I earn that I want to reinvest in my business now? 13.5 cents. If I’m willing to reinvest my money, then all I have to pay the government each year out of my profit is 13.5 cents. Yeah, I have to pay the rest of the tax if I want to spend the money on myself, but if I want to reinvest it I only owe them 13.5 cents. And all I want to do is reinvest it.
And you know what? We’re going to hire people. We’re actually going to create some jobs.
And we actually own and advise productive businesses that make stuff, too!
Government does not produce anything. They are parasitic, in the sense that they need a host economy to feed off of. I’m not saying that makes government inherently bad, but everything government provides to its people comes from someone else. There can be no government without first an economy. And so you cannot create an economy through government.
The solution can never be more government. The solution can never be more regulation. The solution can never be ever greater taxes to satisfy an ever greater appetite for government programs.
Sure, government could employ every damn person across the country to dig ditches. But that’s just another form of income or wealth redistribution, because we don’t need anymore ditches. We could go to war and employ everyone fighting some made-up enemy. But that’s just another form of income or wealth distribution, because we don’t have a real enemy to fight right now. We could create bureaucratic jobs across the country so that everyone could push some more paper. But that’s just another form of income or wealth distribution, because there’s already too damn much paper being pushed around.
Barack Obama once said, “The question we must ask ourselves is not whether or not our government is too big or too small, but if it works.”
Wrong. The question we must ask ourselves at every turn, in every situation, is not whether or not our government is too big or too small, but whether or not it’s necessary.
Government is the least efficient provider of most services.
Regulation strangles business.
Regulatory uncertainty strangles investment. I don’t invest in businesses where there is a reasonable chance the government could shut them off tomorrow on a whim.
And, regardless of the intentions of the policy originator, government is seldom fair.
We can all pretend that more fiscal stimulus, more debt, more regulation, higher taxes, and then some more debt and some more of the same will make everything right in the world.
Tell that to the Greeks. Tell that to a people who now must accept “restrictions on their sovereignty.”
It’s not going to work for them, and it’s not going to work for anyone else who is in a similar mess.
1. Government must live within its means. When government borrows, it comes from the private sector. More borrowing has a real cost to the economy. Unless you print the money, it comes from somewhere. And if you print it, then you’re taxing the cash holdings of everyone (just lying to them about it).
2. You cannot create so much regulation that only big business can manage it and small businesses collapse.
3. You cannot have a tax system where big businesses can use offshore havens to avoid taxation and small businesses need to make two dollars for every dollar they want to hand back to their founders.
4. Government should stay out of competing with business as much as possible. Why does the mortgage sector need government intervention? It doesn’t. When government meddles, they generally break things. Government is like the huge dumb kid that is bigger than everyone else so gets their way all the time. They may try to help, but they generally just smash stuff.
5. Foreign competition must be fair. Allowing other people to fix their currency to compete with you is ridiculous.
6. Government should not bail out the bondholders, stockholders, and CEOs of large firms. If you fail, you lose your money. Government should not come in and save your ass. Everyone pays to save people who made poor investment decisions. If the businesses are productive, the assets will continue to produce after restructuring. If they are not, they will disappear. Bailouts tax everyone to benefit the wealthy, or in the case of the United States, tax everyone to help out the union supporters of Barack Obama.
So watch the damn movie.
Vancouverguy:
Well stated – a bit long – but correct. Santelli gets it. Why do so few not get it?
While reading your post, I can still hear a hundred million american liberals shouting: Gimme gimme gimme.
The republicans should stop negotiating. Pass a bill in the house, which forces a balanced budget and 2+ trillion in spending cuts. Let BO (or the senate) make their decision. If either kills it, the taps will be turned off.
“Don’t eat out of my rice bowl!” In my opinion it makes no difference what political persausion is in power. There is a class of people who live off the avails of other people’s effort and risk. When the % of such people get to large it sinks that society. The world is reaching that point in many countries, including Canada. I do not think it can be stopped.
All leaders with the power of taxation should be forced to read Ayn Rand and understand her theories. The Witch Doctors and Attilas do exist and have since the beginning. I always thought Drucker had a good handle on fundemental capitalism as well.
Gee, I don’t have a problem spending just about 100% of our GDP on federal debt for one year: blink, blink, blink. Pass the cool aid please.
paul in calgary @ 12:00
I thought everyone had read Atlas Shrugged. If you are serious by all means read it.
Let me get this straight: $203 billion coming in vs $362 billion going out? And they don’t see the problem with that?
What would happen if any of us ran our affairs like that?
I’m glad they let him talk this time, and have his say. The woman cut in at the beginning to denigrate him “in so many ways” [lololololshutup] however after that, the other host speaks in earnest to him, giving the respect Rick deserves. If they tried sandbagging, he might have started another movement. Santelli ftw!! Tea party!
Read “Atlas Shrugged”? Hell, who needs to read a collection of apathetic maps?
The two suits on either side of Santelli don’t get it. Never will. Neither does a Dem apparatchik named Joshua Green who writes for The Atlantic. Read this latest missive from him and learn how the Media Party works hard to shape the news in favour of Leftist ideology.
Note: In no scenario do any of these “experts” have any inclination/plan/idea for the American gov’t to ever live within its means. How they sleep at night, knowing what future havoc they’re helping their country to get into, is beyond my comprehension.
Rick Santilli on the mark again. Households have to balance a budget but leftie governments will not give up their dream entitlement programs. The talking suits want to frame the argument that the debt ceiling in not the crux while it’s plain that it’s exactualy the right time to force a change.
bverwey
Robert W. (Vancouver)
I suspect most sleep well, like babies even. They do so because they believe they are the best and brightest. They went to the best University’s and studied under the most acclaimed tenured professors. The most regurgatory of the lot are encouraged to seek post grad degrees so they can become the next generation of tenured profs.
That tenure has created an incestuous intellectual cesspool never occurs to them.
How could they be wrong?
We’re hooped…
Yeah, now’s the time…. for rural conservative welfare bums like Michele Bachmann to give back the $$$hundreds of thousands upon billions they’ve swilled from the trough. Until then, small dead hypocrites, wake me when it’s over.
tirador
I disagree, they’re hooped. By they I mean those too far removed from the basic realities of life.
Food, clothing, shelter, security. Take a look at Maslow’s hierarchy of needs and tell me that the left is not fixated on the top two tiers of the pyramid while they deride the bottom three tiers.
It’s only a matter of time until they self actualize themselves out of existence.
Just read Fox News – forget about it. Boehner caved. No one on either side gets it. It is laughable and Canada is no different. Politicians exhorting the public to live within their means while they gorge at the trough. Reality doesn’t even enter into it.
He didn’t get all weepy again, did he?
Almost every government is addicted to debt. Like any addict, they won’t kick their addiction until they hit rock bottom. With debt addition rock bottom happens when no one will lend you another buck. Look what happened in Canada in 1995 when a T-bill issue was not fully subscribed. T-gar and his crew cut spending (largely by cutting transfer payments to provinces for social programs) and started running surpluses.
Robert W. (Vancouver)
Joshua Green employs the main tools in his tool box…..outright lying….the impass has little to do with the debt ceiling….the impass is both OBOZO and the DemocRATs refuse to make spending cuts and insist on further spending…..with massive taxation.
Maslow’s hierarchy of needs…Thanks for that, syncrodox.
Just showed that to my eight year old, with an explanation, of course.
Almost every government is addicted to debt.
Posted by: Norm
______________________________
No, they’re addicted to spending. Debt is just the means to that end.
flaunagirl
Good on you. Teaching our children important concepts is our job. Foundational knowledge has been disregarded for pop-culture shadows of the same.
Self esteem for instance. Our Dr. Spock inspired culture came to believe that parents and teachers were responsible for safegarding self esteem.
Sadly, they entirely miss the self part.
Just read Fox News – forget about it. Boehner caved. No one on either side gets it.
~Anne Ashton
Eric Cantor told Boehner he’ll face a caucus revolt.
Boehner can tell Obama any stupid thing he wants and the other GOP reps still have a vote.
-House Majority Leader Eric Cantor had said he would not support such a plan. On Saturday, the Wall Street Journal editorial page added to the pressure on the speaker: “Mr. Boehner shouldn’t bet his majority on Mr. Obama’s promises,” the editorial stated.
It ain’t over until the votes are counted, Anne.
That was my thought, too, Oz. Should be an interesting weekend.
Dirtman
They are addicited to debt. Without debt the levels of required taxation would bring a halt to additional spending. If the Dominion government needed to raise $50 Billion more in tax each year fewer taxpayers would demand additional spending. By keeping taxes low (reletive to spedning) through debt governments can lavish the goodies and keep taxes low. Everybody be happy! Except the next generation who must either pay the debt or see savings vanish in monetary inflation.
The inflation of the 1970’s & 80’s wasn’t fueled by debt but by OPEC! /sarc off/
Just watched the movie Company Men.
I recommend it. Why? Because the movie reminds us how capitalism should work. There is excess fixed capacity in a market, so a firm shuts down some of their capital, sells the capacity, and fires staff. And what happens? Someone decides to buy that capital on the cheap, and hire the people on the cheap (at a fraction of their former salaries) and make a go of it.
And what should we see in an economy where there is excess capacity? We should see falling wages and falling prices. Because when times are tough people should work for less. And if firms don’t cut salaries, someone else should snap up the people and make a go of it. And if there is excess capacity and that forces bankruptcy, someone should buy the capacity out of bankruptcy and make a go of it.
And yeah, that’s a simplification, but that’s how it should work.
But if I lived in the United States right now, why would I bother? Why would I bother to go and start a business? Because if I make a profit, the government takes 40% of my profit to start. And then on top of that, if I actually hand the money back to myself they tax that at 15%. So I pay 40% of my profit even if I want to reinvest, and I pay another 15% if I hand the money out to myself.
And so I take all the risk of putting my capital up, human or financial, and the government takes 40% of my upside right off the top, and I take all the downside. And if I ever want to see a dollar of earnings in my pocket, I have to earn $2 of profit. And on top of that, if I hire any employees I have all these regulatory obligations. And I have to fill out a million goddamn forms every time I buy or sell ANYTHING. And I am competing against firms that use offshore havens and transfer pricing TO AVOID ALL THE TAX.
And on top of that, if I want to actually manufacture anything, the probability of getting regulatory approval is nil. Hell, who wants a factory in their backyard nowadays? No one wants to be near a plant that actually makes something! And if I did manage to get a plant up and running, I’d be competing against Chinese workers who will work for a fraction of my local labour. Fair enough. But what’s unfair about that is that half of their cost advantage is because of their fixed currency.
And so of course now Chinese inflation is running rampant because of US monetary policy because the competitive advantage isn’t actually real. It’s an illusion created by government intervention in the market, and the US government just isn’t willing to do a damn thing about it.
And so if I actually managed to jump through the regulatory hoops to start my firm, and the local community didn’t lodge a complaint to keep my factory from going up, and I somehow managed to be innovative enough to fight the cost advantage of China resulting from their currency controls, and I managed to out-compete the large firms who utilized offshore tax strategies to keep themselves from having to pay out 40 cents of every dollar to the government, well then I could be subject to the risk of the government coming in at any time and taking over my firm if it was in trouble for the good of the state and the people! Congratulations to me! And for all that, well I could keep 50 cents of every dollar of profit that I made!
Why do you think no one is creating any jobs in the United States right now? Is it because capitalism is broken? No, it’s because it’s no longer capitalism.
You know how much the government takes from every dollar I earn that I want to reinvest in my business now? 13.5 cents. If I’m willing to reinvest my money, then all I have to pay the government each year out of my profit is 13.5 cents. Yeah, I have to pay the rest of the tax if I want to spend the money on myself, but if I want to reinvest it I only owe them 13.5 cents. And all I want to do is reinvest it.
And you know what? We’re going to hire people. We’re actually going to create some jobs.
And we actually own and advise productive businesses that make stuff, too!
Government does not produce anything. They are parasitic, in the sense that they need a host economy to feed off of. I’m not saying that makes government inherently bad, but everything government provides to its people comes from someone else. There can be no government without first an economy. And so you cannot create an economy through government.
The solution can never be more government. The solution can never be more regulation. The solution can never be ever greater taxes to satisfy an ever greater appetite for government programs.
Sure, government could employ every damn person across the country to dig ditches. But that’s just another form of income or wealth redistribution, because we don’t need anymore ditches. We could go to war and employ everyone fighting some made-up enemy. But that’s just another form of income or wealth distribution, because we don’t have a real enemy to fight right now. We could create bureaucratic jobs across the country so that everyone could push some more paper. But that’s just another form of income or wealth distribution, because there’s already too damn much paper being pushed around.
Barack Obama once said, “The question we must ask ourselves is not whether or not our government is too big or too small, but if it works.”
Wrong. The question we must ask ourselves at every turn, in every situation, is not whether or not our government is too big or too small, but whether or not it’s necessary.
Government is the least efficient provider of most services.
Regulation strangles business.
Regulatory uncertainty strangles investment. I don’t invest in businesses where there is a reasonable chance the government could shut them off tomorrow on a whim.
And, regardless of the intentions of the policy originator, government is seldom fair.
We can all pretend that more fiscal stimulus, more debt, more regulation, higher taxes, and then some more debt and some more of the same will make everything right in the world.
Tell that to the Greeks. Tell that to a people who now must accept “restrictions on their sovereignty.”
It’s not going to work for them, and it’s not going to work for anyone else who is in a similar mess.
1. Government must live within its means. When government borrows, it comes from the private sector. More borrowing has a real cost to the economy. Unless you print the money, it comes from somewhere. And if you print it, then you’re taxing the cash holdings of everyone (just lying to them about it).
2. You cannot create so much regulation that only big business can manage it and small businesses collapse.
3. You cannot have a tax system where big businesses can use offshore havens to avoid taxation and small businesses need to make two dollars for every dollar they want to hand back to their founders.
4. Government should stay out of competing with business as much as possible. Why does the mortgage sector need government intervention? It doesn’t. When government meddles, they generally break things. Government is like the huge dumb kid that is bigger than everyone else so gets their way all the time. They may try to help, but they generally just smash stuff.
5. Foreign competition must be fair. Allowing other people to fix their currency to compete with you is ridiculous.
6. Government should not bail out the bondholders, stockholders, and CEOs of large firms. If you fail, you lose your money. Government should not come in and save your ass. Everyone pays to save people who made poor investment decisions. If the businesses are productive, the assets will continue to produce after restructuring. If they are not, they will disappear. Bailouts tax everyone to benefit the wealthy, or in the case of the United States, tax everyone to help out the union supporters of Barack Obama.
So watch the damn movie.
Vancouverguy:
Well stated – a bit long – but correct. Santelli gets it. Why do so few not get it?
While reading your post, I can still hear a hundred million american liberals shouting: Gimme gimme gimme.
The republicans should stop negotiating. Pass a bill in the house, which forces a balanced budget and 2+ trillion in spending cuts. Let BO (or the senate) make their decision. If either kills it, the taps will be turned off.
“Don’t eat out of my rice bowl!” In my opinion it makes no difference what political persausion is in power. There is a class of people who live off the avails of other people’s effort and risk. When the % of such people get to large it sinks that society. The world is reaching that point in many countries, including Canada. I do not think it can be stopped.
All leaders with the power of taxation should be forced to read Ayn Rand and understand her theories. The Witch Doctors and Attilas do exist and have since the beginning. I always thought Drucker had a good handle on fundemental capitalism as well.
Gee, I don’t have a problem spending just about 100% of our GDP on federal debt for one year: blink, blink, blink. Pass the cool aid please.
Has anyone read ayn rands atlas shrugged ?
Here are some videos that discuss the whole concept of governments and the economy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_uY9y8LOio&feature=player_detailpage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Uv9S_jJrTQ&feature=player_detailpage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2cRWkM5ea4&feature=player_detailpage
The do a good job of explaining the whole concept of the dofference between freedom and democracy.
paul in calgary @ 12:00
I thought everyone had read Atlas Shrugged. If you are serious by all means read it.
Let me get this straight: $203 billion coming in vs $362 billion going out? And they don’t see the problem with that?
What would happen if any of us ran our affairs like that?
I’m glad they let him talk this time, and have his say. The woman cut in at the beginning to denigrate him “in so many ways” [lololololshutup] however after that, the other host speaks in earnest to him, giving the respect Rick deserves. If they tried sandbagging, he might have started another movement. Santelli ftw!! Tea party!
Read “Atlas Shrugged”? Hell, who needs to read a collection of apathetic maps?