Not much is going on at the bioethanol refinery, however, where two tanks are filled to capacity with up to 100 million liters (26 million gallons) of the plant-based fuel, enough to make a billion liters of biofuel mixture. But demand is much lower than expected, which is why the entire production process now has to be shifted away from E10 — a mixture of 10 percent ethanol and 90 percent gasoline — and back to the old super unleaded fuel.
German motorists are to blame for the commercial failure of the supposed green gasoline. The first attempt by politicians to foist a product that is both expensive and environmentally questionable on consumers has failed. German Environment Minister Norbert Röttgen, who had earlier argued in favor of the fuel, is now as embarrassed as the petroleum industry and the auto industry.
“Consumers have made up their minds,” says Volker Kauder, chairman of the parliamentary group of the conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU) and its Bavarian sister party, the Christian Social Union (CSU). “With people starving in many countries, wheat doesn’t belong in our gas tanks.”
Flashback – The City of Brandon is saying goodbye to its biodiesel processor.
“With people starving in many countries, wheat doesn’t belong in our gas tanks.”
With the environmental agenda of reducing human population which environmentalists have refered to as, “Like the AIDS virus on the planet earth.”, starving people by putting wheat in gas tanks is a feature from their point of view, not a bug.
I’ve got to hand it to the Germans though, they may have blighted the landscape of their nation with wind turbines, but they draw the line at putting E10 biofuel in their Porches and Mercedes.
It’s disappointing that you of all people wouldn’t understand the fundamentally important differences between the bioethanol scam that uses food grain as feedstock and BIODIESEL which uses recycled fryer oil and non food grade Canadain canola as feedstock.
That’s a scam, too.
See the biodiesel fiasco in Brandon, Manitoba.
Remember when turning corn into alcohol was called bootlegging?
Now it is Eco-Fraud.
Too funny.
( indignant voice of a ghost) For thousands of years civilization use pure biofuel engine, it was called the horse! The fact that they could not make it fly was not a good reason to abandon progressive thinking!
Sorry, but you’re misinformed. I’ve been running my truck on recycled fryer oil for years. Much better than it going to the landfill. For every energy unit of petroleum used to grow, harvest and produce biodiesel, 3.5 to 4 energy units of biodiesel are produced. Don’t confuse the energy and pollution reduction benefits of biodiesel with the experience of those who can’t figure out how to do it correctly, especially with government meddling.
M.Peltier, it seems you’re uninformed about the environmental damage from clearing huge plantations in equatorial regions such as Borneo in order to establish palm oil plantations to supply European biodiesel. And you also seem unaware of the problems associated with biodeisel in winter conditions.
fryer-oil-trucker left the gate open
horse ran off
I’m speaking about Canadian biodiesel, not palm oil biodiesel. I run canola biodiesel blends all winter long in temperatures down to 30 below. Anything can be a problem if you don’t do it correctly.
“With people starving in many countries, wheat doesn’t belong in our gas tanks.”
Another campaign slogan for someone.
From wiki:
If the entire arable land area of the USA (470 million acres, or 1.9 million square kilometers) were devoted to biodiesel production from soy, this would just about provide the 160 million tonnes required (assuming an optimistic 98 US gal/acre of biodiesel).
Oh well. Who needs food anyway?
Don’t confuse bio-diesel with E10 or E15. The E10/15 is alcohol added to gasoline. There’s lots of documentation on this creating problems with bacterial damage to engines, as the alcohol promotes bacterial growth, bacteria produce acids, and bye-bye all those nice expensive alloy engine parts.
Given the very tight tolerances in many european engines, especially high performance ones I can understand the reluctance to use ethanol modified gasoline.
Diesels are a very different beast.
The stupidity of the political leadership never ceases to amaze me.
Although on the other hand, $7.50 US for corn and the spinoff higher prices for other grains is good for farmers.
I realize this is a pretty tall order, but I’d be interested to see what, if any, real analysis was done, i.e. cost vs benefit, to lead to the bioethanol craze in the first place. If putting wheat in gas tanks doesn’t make sense now, how did it make sense before?
Right up front (para 3 in the article), “German motorists are to blame” for the failure. But read down a bit:
“Many car owners still aren’t quite sure whether their vehicle can cope with E10. The manufacturers’ lists are incomplete. This confusion even prompted the German Interior Ministry to instruct its employees not to fill up their official vehicles with biofuel until further notice. The same applied to all government agencies and organizations associated with the Interior Ministry, such as the Federal Police and the German Federal Agency for Technical Relief (THW), where officials were concerned that emergency vehicles could end up stalling because of engine damage.”
German motorists thinking more about their engines than the planet. Stupid, selfish motorists /sarc
I’m not sure what I find more disturbing; this biofuel fiasco or Der Spiegel’s bizarre spin.
I realize this is a pretty tall order, but I’d be interested to see what, if any, real analysis was done, i.e. cost vs benefit, to lead to the bioethanol craze in the first place.
I’d guess none.
Why?
Because:
a) there isn’t any Global Warming
b) there isn’t any conventional energy shortage
When you take those 2 points into consideration the cost/benefit analysis of creating bioethanol is redundant because there isn’t any need for bioethanol/biodiezel/wind turbines/solar panels in the first place.
The goal of saving the earth from CO2 never was the actual goal here.
The true goal is to reduce the earth’s human population by 90% through privation so that all those peons, that’d be me and you, stop using up the Elite’s resources on their planet.
It’s a good thing the German peons aren’t down with the program.
“With people starving in many countries, wheat doesn’t belong in our gas tanks.”
Another campaign slogan for someone.
Posted by: Mark at April 21, 2011 2:40 PM
McGuinty? No, eh.
Layton? He’s really concerned ’bout food prices….ya don’t think so, eh.
Hudak? Not him either?
Harper? Yeah, Steven. Really? Not even him???
The problem with ethanol is that it takes more energy to produce the ethanol than you get from burning the ethanol. Put another way: Energy wise you would be better off eating the wheat and burning the straw in an external combustion engine than wasting energy making the fuel source compatible with an internal combustion engine.
That’s gonna put the kabosh to the demand for GMO soyabeans.
BTW – I have no quarrel with anyone who wants to run any fuel they desire in their own vehicle. My support ends the minute governments decide to subsidize it.
Many of you are missing the point. A large part of the purpose of E10 or E80 was to create an artificial demand and boost farm income. What was neglected was the added cost this would impose on livestock farming when the cost of feed was driven up. So this policy benefits a handful of farmers at the disproportionate expense of everyone else.
As for M. Peltier, recycling used fryer oil is fine, but the instant you start using it on a once-through basis, it’s no better than ethanol. You’re still burning food. Since the amount of used fryer oil is trivial compared to total demand, this is a niche product only and irrelevant to overall transport needs.
Oz … Yes, I’d suspect as much that it’s all really politically motivated, but I’d have expected some due diligence from the Germans who take pride in their fine automobiles and engineering prowess. I’d have also thought that clearer minds would have more influence against ideology especially when so much capital is at stake. Silly me. How far the mighty Germans have fallen.
German motorists are not to blame for the failure of this boondoggle. The morons who foisted it upon them are.
It would appear that the average German driver is smarter, by a long shot, than whoever thought using FOOD for a gas replacement was a good idea.
I’d have expected some due diligence from the Germans who take pride in their fine automobiles and engineering prowess.,/i>
Germans are known to stand at a stop light at 3:45 AM on a deserted street in the driving rain waiting for the light change.
If the government orders Germans to use the fuel they just might comply.
Give them the choice though and well…
I’m guessing they really aren’t sold on the Global Warming propaganda.
Maybe it had something to do with all those Mercedes limosines that Germany had to drive to Copenhagen for COP15 so the Elites could ride around in style and tell us peons we have to use alternate energy sources?
If the entire arable land area of the USA (470 million acres, or 1.9 million square kilometers) were devoted to biodiesel production from soy, this would just about provide the 160 million tonnes required (assuming an optimistic 98 US gal/acre of biodiesel).
Oh come on… Taking things to ridiculous extremes is hardly a valid argument. Nobody in their right mind is suggesting large scale biodiesel replacement of petroleum fuel. Biodiesel is best used as diesel fuel additive to significantly reduce pollution from all diesel engines.
In any year approximately 10% to 25% of the canola crop can be non-food grade, depending on the climate. It’s usually used for animal feed. The oil can be extracted, made into pollution reducing diesel additive and the seed cake is still used for animal feed.
Bioethanol is an energy wasting scam promoted by the corn growing lobby. Bioethanol production uses antibiotics to maximize the ethanol produced, and as a result the spent mash isn’t usable for animal feed and it’s discarded. Bioethanol is an economic and environmental disaster.
Bioethanol and biodiesel are not the same thing. Do your homework, be informed, make knowledgeable decisions about what you choose to believe.
It would be best if Kate changed the misinformed off-topic title of this discussion. The article referenced is about bioethanol, not biodiesel. Bioethanol IS NOT made from french fry grease. However it’s her web page and she can do whatever she wants, of course.
M.Peltier, I agree the title is a bit lame. Maybe Kate does that on purpose to see if her trolls are correct in claiming the rest of us agree with anything she’ll post.
Or maybe its tough coming up with a title that includes the word Maisalkohol.
I do agree that what your use of used fryer oil is excellent use of a product that would otherwise be wasted or provide much less value. May I ask how much government subsidy you get? (I assume none or very little.)
M. Peltier: “It would be best if Kate changed the misinformed off-topic title of this discussion.”
Still missing the link to where Brandon Manitoba canceled its biodiesel program due to financial infeasibility?
Waste oils etc. are better used as feed stocks for fertilizer etc. than burned as fuel. Burning food is stupid.
Incidentally, have you tried your fry oil in a newer engine that has all the happy-slappy soot control crap and urea injection?
With people starving in many countries, wheat doesn’t belong in our gas tanks
This needs to be repeated 10,000 times.
You may not have a choice. The time to lock & load may be 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFJLkoEUMY8
Taking things to ridiculous extremes is hardly a valid argument. Nobody in their right mind is suggesting large scale biodiesel replacement of petroleum fuel. Biodiesel is best used as diesel fuel additive to significantly reduce pollution from all diesel engines.
The only way you get “significant” reductions is if you use 100% biodiesel. I therefore look forward to your recipe for making bread out of oil.
Making the trains that run on gravy run on time.
Germans do not sit at traffic lights in the wee hours of the morning for no reason.
Most lights are turned off but those which aren’t are left on for safety reasons. All Europeans would react the same less the Italians as they are just nuts in a car.
The drive towards green fuels in my opinion is more to do with a justifiable increase in fuel tax and less to do with the environment. In Europe fuel duty is crippling and increases to this unpopular duty which is used to pay for expensive burgeoning civil service budgets is justified by trying to tax an environmentally unsound fuel out of reach of the working classes.
If a solution to the problem was really sought then bio fuels would not be the direction research would follow.
The irony is they don’t want us to stop using oil based fuels as it is an easy tax income.
The most laudable direction for research is renewable power generation and electric cars. This would reduce the CO2 but what would be the justification for high taxation on renewable energy.
It would also cast the middle east adrift with no political power or hold over the west as oil would be a defunct product.
Imagine the Western World without having to listen to the mad mullahs.
I can see it now.
Total bliss.
The Global Economy has a hold on the Western Governments and we live in an age where large corporate organizations have an unprecedented hold over Government policy.
Imagine the boardrooms at Shell, BP, Exon if a government announced it was conducting large scale research into viable oil alternatives.
Never going to happen at the moment.
If you want to see where the ethanol lobby wanted to go look at sugar subsidies in the US.
M Peltier
“Bio diesel is best used as diesel fuel additive to significantly reduce pollution from all diesel engines. ”
nooope, do yer due diligence, bio-diesel actually causes a more harmful pollutant (it escapes me at the moment what it is)
and using arable land to grow anything that is used for fuel causes a decrease in food supply
Germans do not sit at traffic lights in the wee hours of the morning for no reason.
~Armyair
It was a parody, you twit.
Way, way back in the 1970s I helped with some basic biofuel research at the UofM. (Partly funded by Ottawa) I am not an intellectual and I am not some whiz kid, but even I knew, 35 year ago, that biofuel was a fraud even without today’s AGW fraud.
So why do we have this boondoggle today? If you had to lay it at the feet of one person, that would be Albert Gore. As VP he broke the Senate tie and sent the world (basically) down the biofuel garden path to prevent non existent climate doom. (He admitted last fall that it was a big mistake on his part)
David Suzuki, to his credit, did not use biodiesel in his ‘If I Were PM’ bus. He took a lot of heat over it but he used less fossil fuel than if he had used biodiesel instead.
Climate Alarmists do no even know these terms exist let alone that these terms govern everything that moves – including their fat cushy jobs ass. Thermodynamics. British Thermal Units. The Carnot Cycle. Thermal Efficiency. Volumetric Efficiency. Continuity Equations. Energy Concentration. And many many more.
I understood the context of your remarks. You always throw abuse at me and I thought I’d poke the beehive again to see if the bees still got upset.
The response is as predictable as gravity.
I am in favour of using fryer grease for biodiesel, if for no other reason, than to give KFC a reason to change their grease. I swear they haven’t changed it since the Colonel died.
May I ask how much government subsidy you get? (I assume none or very little.)
None asked for none received. I don’t believe in nanny state subsidies.
nooope, do yer due diligence, bio-diesel actually causes a more harmful pollutant
I did, you obviously didn’t, or you wouldn’t be making such unfounded statements.
The only way you get “significant” reductions is if you use 100% biodiesel.
Not true – do your homework.
Still missing the link to where Brandon Manitoba canceled its biodiesel program due to financial infeasibility?
That’s not the case at all, read the article. For every ‘Brandon’ example of not doing it correctly there are hundreds of examples of municipalities and universities making pollution reducing fuel from used fryer oil. As well as an emerging biodiesel industry.
I don’t care one way or another what you choose to believe. I don’t sell biodiesel; I have no vested interest.
Do your homework, make your own choices, but at least do it based on real information not half-baked misconceptions and unfounded preconcieved beliefs as demonstrated here.
Used to be that used French fry grease could be processed into livestock feed. This is not practical with current regulations. If people can burn it in their diesel engines, great.
Unused French fry grease (ie fresh canola oil), faces quite a few barriers in replacing diesel fuel.
Its forerunner (rapeseed oil) was an important lubricant in the steam era. Wikipedia: “machinists found rapeseed oil clung to water- or steam-washed metal surfaces better than other lubricants. World War II saw high demand for the oil as a lubricant for the rapidly increasing number of steam engines in naval and merchant ships.” Production for the war launched the rape industry in Sask.
The part of the Spiegel article that really caught my attention was “The EU had in fact intended to require carmakers to limit emissions in their new models to an average of only 120 grams of carbon dioxide per kilometer. The plan would have been more detrimental to German auto companies than their Italian and French counterparts, which tend to specialize in smaller cars.”
So it’s the EU running the show, the national governments are not sovereign. No consideration is made that larger cars hold more people and may actually be more efficient than smaller cars.
CO2 is directly labelled as a pollutant.
This is Iggy’s vision for Canada, under the thumb of the UN.
It’s OT, but seems the discussion is finished.
to create all that fry grease we all have to eat till we take on proportions of Lizzy May or Hot Cross Hedy Fry (coincidence , I think not)
Hot Cross Hedy Fry
LOL
I love it!
I’d shorten it to Hot Cross Hedy, though.
People here are sharp enough to get it.
ROTFLMAO
Ah yes – think back to the wise EU agricultural policy that gave us the Wine Lake and the Butter Mountain!
Now the wise EU environmental policy gives us the Brandy Sea.
Oh I know it’s not good as brandy (though distillation will fix that) but the wine in the Wine Lake wasn’t very good either.
They still have the Cheddar Gorge near Somerset in the UK.
mmmm Cheese.
“Sorry, but you’re misinformed. I’ve been running my truck on recycled fryer oil for years. Much better than it going to the landfill. ”
Well, M. Peltier, it didn’t used to go to the landfill. Used fryer grease was collected by specially-equipped trucks, and sent to a reduction plant, where it was made into products like soap, animal feed, and fertilizer.
So by burning it in you vehicle, you are actually competing for the feedstock of a long-established recycling industry. Similalry, “non food-grade” canola can be used as livestock feed, or burned directly as fuel in suitably-equipped stoves, thus avoiding all the energy-intensive steps needed to make it into bio-diesel.
Bio-diesel doesn’t do a damn thing to save the planet (which is doing very well, thank you). All it does is reinforce its users’ sense of smug self-righteousness.
“A screw is just a nail with threads” – Red Green
“Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe.
I dispute that.
I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.”
~Frank Zappa
Zappa must have been the inspiration for today’s environmentalists because they seem to have the single focus of powering the universe on stupidity alone.
They’ll probably make a killing at it because they’ve been trying to corner the market since before I was born.
Oz, or at least the basic building block of the universities.
MPeltier: “Do your homework, make your own choices, but at least do it based on real information not half-baked misconceptions and unfounded preconcieved beliefs as demonstrated here.”
Did mine, thanks. Biodiesel from fry oil as mentioned above competes for raw material with animal feed, fertilizer and other industries. A few guys doing it for a hobby is no big deal, but trying to produce hundreds of millions of gallons a year would be. Burning food is a bad thing. Plus, its kinda dangerous. Lots of corrosive chemicals used and hydrogen gas being produced. Boom!
Ethanol costs more BTUs per gallon to make than you get from burning it. Plus, burning food is a bad thing.
METHANOL, wood alcohol, does -not- come from food and used in a properly regulated water injection system actually improves the fuel mileage of turbo-diesels by 10%-15% or more. See http://www.snowperformance.net/, they built a really kick-@ss VW TDI. Huge power (for a tiny wee four banger) and almost 50 mpg.
I’m strongly considering bolting one of these on my F-250, fuel isn’t getting any cheaper anytime soon. I could use a 10%-15% mileage improvement, and the extra power will be a giggle.
I’m not doing any fuel conservation.
I bought a brand new Toyota RAV4 in 2007 and I don’t even have 1,500 clicks on it.
(not that I’m stingy about driving, I just don’t need to much)
Changed the oil 3 times just because, still haven’t changed the tires.