BTJ, the raw data was eaten by the proverbial homework dog.
I read elsewhere that this whole global warming thing was a canard to distract the world from imperialist expansionism on the part of America (assisted by Britain and Canada).
[smacks forehead] Of course! It’s now obvious!
Those bastards!
“BTJ, the raw data was eaten by the proverbial homework dog.”
What are you talking about? Did you look at the link, is it not common sense that data from polar regions would be lacking prior to the 60’s-70’s and only get better by the 80’s?
Not too mention the original link had the data smoothing set to 250km making it choppy.
BTW, Doug, don’t confuse a ‘viola’ for a ‘violin’. It’s a common misake.
I know, because I used to play the violin.
A viola is not a leader in the orchestra, the violin is.
“BTJ, the raw data was eaten by the proverbial homework dog.”
What are you talking about? Did you look at the link, is it not common sense that data from polar regions would be lacking prior to the 60’s-70’s and only get better by the 80’s?
Not to mention the original link had the data smoothing set to 250km making it choppy.
What are you talking about?
Weren’t they referencing 2 or 3 tree cores?
Enough Inconvienient Ruths crawl out of the hotel notel massage rooms and this SCAM of SCAMS will finally cost Fat AL and his sideshow Suzuker their mansions on the rising waters.
PiperPaul: ha ha.
I’m a professional player (oboist) and a manager and I find myself frequently typing “viola,” even when I am trying to type “voila.”
Q: What is the difference between a viola and a violin?
A: A viola burns longer.
They were referencing the three or four tree ring samples that fit the required out come, the majority were dumped .There are lots of factors affecting tree growth, not all climate based.
Check out the second globe in the link, It shows huge areas of South America as well as the Indian subcontinent as black from lack of data.
Climate modelers cover this by running the programmes and generating smaller boxes or mosaics for the areas known,the rest is “interpolated” Based on any shaky hypothesis.
Garbage In, Garbage Out
BTJ conveniently avoids to talk about the liberal environmental activist’s opinions which are essentially the same as we have been saying all along here: SCAM!
Now come and bore us again by discrediting yet another who surely has more knowledge on the subject than all of us combined here.
BTW, your posted link does not work BTJ…Looks like it’s from NASA. Yes we can trust NASA, here’s just one link that explains how much we should trust NASA: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/dec/03/nasa-embroiled-in-climate-dispute/
The comment about the 250 km smoothing is disengenuous at best. That smoothing was taken from one of the data sets that is commonly used to represent the temperature changes and “measurments” of the planet. The other data set uses a 1200 Km smoothing to account for the lack of actual measurments available.
So basically they are saying that the temperature radings in St Johns are valide for the area 1200 km out into the Atlantic or that the NWT is all the same temperature as Yellowknife.
If the people responsible for the measurments were at all ethical they would do something like oh I don’t know use radius that could be scientifically validated in their data sets.
Just as a for instance the weather folks at CITY tv have set up local weather stations all over the GTA because they weather and notably the temperatures ARE DIFFERENT BETWEEN SAY TORONTO LAKESHORE AND MARKHAM. That is a difference of perhaps 30km.
Until there is some real data verification and realistic projections there is no science there is only advocacy
BJT is just parroting the lefty narative.
Facts and logic are not relevant to him.
My perenial favourite is the claims that the alleged current warming is unprecedented.
They cite retreating Alpine glaciers which have revealed roman roads, iron age artefacts, bronze age artefacts even the adit to a gold mine abandoned early in the Little Ice Age.
There is much merit to the Age of Migrations being a result of cooling in Central Asia not the military/political vacuum of the decling Roman Empire. Indeed the impact of the cooling climate was the major cause of the decline and fall of the Roman Empire in the West.
Right Honourable Terry Tory
Stuff like that is dismissed by the mronic sheeple like BJT—-as a “denier site”.
Then they post a picture of an ice choked Disco Bay as proof that Greenland is breaking up when in reality it is evidence of a growing ice cap not a shrinking one. Blantant and obvious misrepresentation………
Glen shevin, you don’t have to go that far. From my home in Leaside to Lake Ontario is maybe 5kms yet the temperature went from 32 to 27 when I went down to go sailing last week. Most of that of course would be the heat sink of the city which affects 1,000s of square kms stretching along the lake.
this would be the data that they used to report that this was the hottest June on record at 16.2 degrees C. a full 1.2 degrees above the world mean of 15c. That 90% of all temperature gauges are in the northern hemisphere and there is a possible skew to the data would never be noticed. That 1.2 degrees is within the standard deviation would be beyond the MSM level of comprehension.
BTJ, the folks up in Alert, NWT (now Nunavut), the northern most settlement in the world, been taking temperature readings since 1950. Cut the BS, will ya.
Cal2: “That 90% of all temperature gauges are in the northern hemisphere”
Which corresponds roughly to the percentage of the globe’s landmass in which most of the advanced technology and science takes place.
Remember the old North-South divide thing from a few decades ago. Latin America, Africa, South Asia, the Philippines, Indonesia were all basket cases incapable of much more than whining about colonialism, but only too happy to extort billions of aid dollars from their former colonial masters.
“BTW, your posted link does not work BTJ…Looks like it’s from NASA.”
It’s the same as the original link..it’s to the GISS mapping…go to the original link and change the time change series to 1980 to 2009, and change the smoothing to 1200km and you get a complete set of data.
“BTJ conveniently avoids to talk about the liberal environmental activist’s opinions ”
Huh? I was only commenting on the first link because who ever set up the GISS for it is a dumbass and guilty of setting up evidence to support their theory.
“The comment about the 250 km smoothing is disengenuous at best. That smoothing was taken from one of the data sets that is commonly used to represent the temperature changes and “measurments” of the planet. The other data set uses a 1200 Km smoothing to account for the lack of actual measurments available.”
What? The 250km smoothing is attempting to put more detail into the map than is available…I don’t expect their to be available data every 250km, nor does their need to be. It’s called representing data appropriately.
“BJT is just parroting the lefty narative.”
How am I ‘parroting’ the left? I didn’t repeat anything from anywhere, I just went and used the GISS mapping program for myself and used an appropriate setting.
“Then they post a picture of an ice choked Disco Bay as proof that Greenland is breaking up when in reality it is evidence of a growing ice cap not a shrinking one.”
Huh? Random much?
“BTJ, the folks up in Alert, NWT (now Nunavut), the northern most settlement in the world, been taking temperature readings since 1950. Cut the BS, will ya.”
EXACTLY!!!!! 1950! not 1880…so why do you expect data to be there before 1950? PLUS, a few temperature readings are still not enough to give a picture, not until 1970 is there enough readings from higher latitudes to give a complete picture…go to the original link and in the time change series change 1880 to 1980, and then smoothing to 1200km and tell me what you see on the north pole.
Go here, set the map type to ‘Trends’; set the mean period to annual (or whatever you want); set the Time Interval to 1980 to 2009; and hit ‘make map’ http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/maps/
Consensus Science ought to be outlawed.
BTJ, do you have even a small clue about how much time in the planet’s history 130 years (2010-1880) represents? Hint: Half a blink of an eye.
Get over it. You and the warmists know nothing about the earth’s history. Zilch. Nada. A big goose egg. An empty hole.
Ever wondered how Roald Admunsen made it through the North West Passage in 1903 or the St. Roch, an RCMP ship, in the early 1940s?
Have you ever considered that historical documents surviving from the Middle Ages attest to the 500 years of successful Viking farming settlements in Greenland and grapes grown in England, where neither is possible today? Or are you one of those who want to destroy such documents because they put the lie to the narrative?
Which reminds me. I was going to put up an entry on my own blog about an actual Great Flood that occurred in the Middle East and South Eastern Europe about 7,400 years ago, which lefties love to dismiss because it sounds too Biblical (ie) Christian.
It seems to me scientists who specialize in climate warmmongering should be required to take a few classes in history and historical geology. They’d be less inclined to make fools of themselves and their groupies wouldn’t be such easy targets.
“BTJ, do you have even a small clue about how much time in the planet’s history 130 years (2010-1880) represents? Hint: Half a blink of an eye”
Great shift in conversation so as to avoid the results of proper use of the GISS mapping.
“Get over it. You and the warmists know nothing about the earth’s history. Zilch. Nada. A big goose egg. An empty hole.”
Easy to say when you ignore everything we do know.
In the grand scheme of things we know nothing about nuclear energy, nothing about the human body, etc, etc, but that doesn’t stop us from using what we do know.
“It seems to me scientists who specialize in climate warmmongering should be required to take a few classes in history and historical geology. They’d be less inclined to make fools of themselves and their groupies wouldn’t be such easy targets.”
I’m pretty sure researchers use any and all available information to create as good of an understanding as they can. You seem to be relying on an unorganized and random understanding of random events/climates through earth’s history. Here’s an idea, try to put it all together to form a story, rather than just pulling random facts out.
Over at Climate Depot under the title “Left-wing Env. Scientist Bails Out Of Global Warming Movement: Declares it a ‘corrupt social phenomenon…strictly an imaginary problem of the 1st World middleclass’” there is the picture of Capt Brian Bews bailing out of his CF 18 last Friday in Lethbridge.
Get over yourselves, you guys. You think AGW is a left wing conspiracy? Nope. The BIG speculative opportunities right now are in carbon offset trading schemes.
The “left” environmentalist movement over the last decade is actually deeply reactionary. They believe in a bizarre mediaeval utopia where 90% of the world’s population dies and the remainder live in lo-tech communes.
That’s anti-industrial AND anti-social. Not to mention anti-science and anti-progress. The only reason an old communist like me can bear to enjoy blogs like yours is that we agree on the idea of progress.
How progress turns out is a different argument :*)
BTJ: “I’m pretty sure researchers use any and all available information to create as good of an understanding as they can.”
Right. So they can conspire to eliminate the Medieval warm period from the record.
“Right. So they can conspire to eliminate the Medieval warm period from the record.”
Great conspiracy theory, you should write fiction. No where is the MWP eliminated…go ahead and search the scientific journals.
Hey, BJ. Check out the audio clip of an interview with Marc Morano by Dennis Rancourt (man in the YouTube video that Kate has posted here) posted at his blog. http://trainradio.blogspot.com/2010/05/climate-chaos-yeah-right.html
Listen to that and tell us how you intend to squirm out of this one. It’s the big green corporations that did it to ya. They suckered you big time.
BTJ: “No where is the MWP eliminated…go ahead and search the scientific journals.”
================
You’re right. But doesn’t mean they didn’t try.
You and your compatriots are going to melt down from the heat emitted from your faces from the embarrassment.
“Hey, BJ. Check out the audio clip of an interview with Marc Morano by Dennis Rancourt (man in the YouTube video that Kate has posted here) posted at his blog.”
I see you’re still ignoring the GISS data.
In regards to the audio clip…why do you insist on listening to the OPINIONS of political correspondents and politicians? Why do you insist on mixing the SCIENCE of climate change with the POLITICS of climate change.
The man in the audio clip:
“Until spring of 2009, Morano served as communications director for the Republicans on the U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works. Morano commenced work with the committee under Senator James Inhofe, who was majority chairman of the committee until January 2007 and is now minority ranking member. In December 2006 Morano launched a blog on the committee’s website that largely promotes the views of climate change skeptics.
Morano is a former journalist with Cybercast News Service (CNS), which is owned by the conservative Media Research Center.” http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Marc_Morano
An August 2007 entry by Morano on Inhofe’s EPW Committee blog claimed that “proponents of man-made global warming have been funded to the tune of $50 BILLION in the last decade or so, but the Magazine chose instead to focus on how skeptics have reportedly received a paltry $19 MILLION from ExxonMobil over the last two decades.”[8] Morano offered no documentation to support the “$50 BILLION” claim, and cited only one figure to support the “$19 MILLION” claim — a statement that “skeptics have reportedly received a paltry $19 MILLION from ExxonMobil over the last two decades,” falsely suggesting that ExxonMobil was the only source of funding for global warming “skeptics.”[9]
Writing in the New York Times, Leslie Kaufman noted that Morano, while working for Inhofe, had authored a report titled More than 700 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims. One of those cited in the report was Steve Rayner, from Oxford University. However, Rayner — who doesn’t dispute global warming though has been critical of the Kyoto Protocol — described his inclusion as “quite outrageous” and had asked for his name to be removed from the report. Despite being told by an Inhofe staffer that it would be removed, it hasn’t. Morano is unrepentant , claiming instead that Rayner must be “not to be remembering this clearly.”
They should give up while they’re behind.
BTJ uses the same old same old. It’s getting tired, sweetie. You folks on the warmist side have lost the war.
You weren’t very well armed to begin with. All you ever really had in your arsenal was the “discredit the scientist, not the science” weapon. Now you’re only making fools of yourselves by relying on bankrupt old memes.
You should look into the amount of funding your side has managed to extort over the years. You’d be doubly embarrassed (if your head doesn’t explode in the process) to discover how many fat capitalists corporations were involved.
Every so often, I actually have a tiny, but fleeting, bit of pity for your camp. But in the end, your embarrassment has been well earned.
“BTJ uses the same old same old. It’s getting tired, sweetie.”
And just what would be the ‘same old same old’? I find the empty ambiguous rebuttles that do nothing to create a real discussion quite amusing, but otherwise unstimulating and unproductive.
“All you ever really had in your arsenal was the “discredit the scientist, not the science” weapon.”
Huh? The only person I discredited was Marc Morano who is no scientist by any standards..he is a journalist and ‘communications director’ for the Republican party.
” relying on bankrupt old memes.”
Care to share one such meme that I’ve used?
“You should look into the amount of funding your side has managed to extort over the years.”
Funny how people love to make and choose ‘sides’…’us’ vs ‘them’…’me’ vs ‘them’…a condition of the ego, a need to self-identify with a group, a group which is determined by what it is not…’them’.
” You’d be doubly embarrassed (if your head doesn’t explode in the process) to discover how many fat capitalists corporations were involved.”
Please, enlighten me. Anywhere near as big as Big Oil and Gas? Or Big Chemical? Or Big Pharmaceutical?
“Every so often, I actually have a tiny, but fleeting, bit of pity for your camp”
Well it’s touching that you don’t hold on to that pity. Unfortunately, I on the other hand have nothing but utter pity for folks like you.
”
You are an unhappy human being BTJ. Your superior intellect and understanding of man being a parasite and cancer to mother earth resembles the enlightment of a visionary like James Cameron and his documentary movie AVATAR. Yes, that movie “documents” that man is evil just like “The Day after Tomorrow” does. Both movies are based on the new progressive scriptures: “An inconvenient truth”.
Unlike them smart AVATAR natives, we humans, after thousands of years on earth, still have not converged and come as one with nature; naked in the woods; If only we could communicate with mosquitos and deer flies, talk to trees and ride grizzly bears.
I’m not sure if James is unhappy like yourself but he is super rich and that makes him worthy of arrogantly preaching to us poluting maggots; According to the lefty doctrine anyway.
Being Cameron is rich and you are not, it is with my lefty, progressive hat firmly on my nuggen that I decree you kill yourself in the name of Gaia.
Question to the enlightened BTJ before you do your part to save the planet:
If we were like AVATAR and ride wild animals would’nt that be considered animal cruelty? Remember I’m not saying “domesticated” like a horse because in AVATAR world, nothing should be “dominated”, especially coralled and raised.
I know its a tough one, I’ll let you consult with other enlighten people like PETA.
BTJ 7:32 PM
“Care to share one such meme that I’ve used?”
Okey dokey, BTJ, here goes, with apologies in advance for quoting more than one.
Posted by: BTJ at July 27, 2010 7:31 PM “”In regards to the audio clip…why do you insist on listening to the OPINIONS of political correspondents and politicians? Why do you insist on mixing the SCIENCE of climate change with the POLITICS of climate change.”
Meme #1: “Quote selectively from the evidence provided by skeptics”
#2 coming up.
Opps. Forgot to mention that in the above cited case you also ignored the fact that the man doing the interview, a warmist, Dr. Rancourt, – same guy as in the video posted by Kate – also a extreme leftwinger, NOT tainted by “Conservative connections” – agrees with him on almost every point.
BTJ at 7:31 PM: “There is no data because the chosen time interval was not appropriate…there was not enough, or any, temperature readings before 1970 in the higher latitudes. If you look at temperature trends from 1970 and on-2009 you get much more data.”
Meme #2: By implication “Upward temperature trends over a very short period of time, while ignoring all past climate data showing upward temperature trends prior to Western industrialization as in the Medieval Warm Period = anthropogenic cause”
“BTJ, do you have even a small clue about how much time in the planet’s history 130 years (2010-1880) represents? Hint: Half a blink of an eye”
BTJ at 11:50 PM: ”Great shift in conversation so as to avoid the results of proper use of the GISS mapping.”
Meme #3: “Deflect and discount all contrary information”
And besides the subject I’m addressing is your request for examples of your memes, so the great “Great shift in conversation” is yours, not mine.
BTJ at 4:13 PM “Here’s an idea, try to put it all together to form a story, rather than just pulling random facts out.”
Meme #4: “Accuse others of doing the very same thing you do (pulling random facts), and, in a brilliant display of leftie logic, saying that that’s not legit.”
BTJ at 7:31 PM: “Until spring of 2009, Morano served as communications director for the Republicans on the U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works. Morano commenced work with the committee under Senator James Inhofe, who was majority chairman of the committee until January 2007 and is now minority ranking member. In December 2006 Morano launched a blog on the committee’s website that largely promotes the views of climate change skeptics.
Morano is a former journalist with Cybercast News Service (CNS), which is owned by the conservative Media Research Center.” http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Marc_Morano”
Meme #5: “Assume guilt by association”
BTJ at 7:32 PM: “An August 2007 entry by Morano on Inhofe’s EPW Committee blog claimed that “proponents of man-made global warming have been funded to the tune of $50 BILLION in the last decade or so, but the Magazine chose instead to focus on how skeptics have reportedly received a paltry $19 MILLION from ExxonMobil over the last two decades.”[8] Morano offered no documentation to support the “$50 BILLION” claim, and cited only one figure to support the “$19 MILLION” claim — a statement that “skeptics have reportedly received a paltry $19 MILLION from ExxonMobil over the last two decades,” falsely suggesting that ExxonMobil was the only source of funding for global warming “skeptics.”[9]
Meme #5: “Assume guilt by association”
Meme #6: “Attach the messenger, not the message”
BTJ at July 27, 2010 7:32 PM Writing in the New York Times, Leslie Kaufman noted that Morano, while working for Inhofe, had authored a report titled More than 700 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims. One of those cited in the report was Steve Rayner, from Oxford University. However, Rayner — who doesn’t dispute global warming though has been critical of the Kyoto Protocol — described his inclusion as “quite outrageous” and had asked for his name to be removed from the report. Despite being told by an Inhofe staffer that it would be removed, it hasn’t. Morano is unrepentant , claiming instead that Rayner must be “not to be remembering this clearly.”
Meme #7: (In bolded part) “Scream bloody murder when a supposed “sin” is committed by skeptics, while ignoring or downplaying the same “sin” if it’s committed by the IPCC.” (See the film The Great Global Warming Swindle’s account from Paul Reiter where he recounts the very same “sin” committed by the IPCC)
Now, moving on to your quest for enlightenment at 11:50 PM: Please, enlighten me. Anywhere near as big as Big Oil and Gas? Or Big Chemical? Or Big Pharmaceutical?
Let’s include big government in cahoots with big Oil, etc. as well as Big Green and their assorted Green groupies on the left. In any case, here’s the first of a good rundown: http://tinyurl.com/yp822w
“The only problem is — Newsweek knew better. Reporter Eve Conant, who interviewed Senator James Inhofe (R-Okla.), the Ranking Member of the Environment & Public Works Committee, was given all the latest data proving conclusively that it is the proponents of man-made global warming fears that enjoy a monumental funding advantage over the skeptics. (A whopping $50 BILLION to a paltry $19 MILLION and some change for skeptics – Yes, that is BILLION to MILLION – see below)”
Read the whole thing.
More on alarmist funding: http://tinyurl.com/2cc4947
“Since 2000, UMCES has received $65,849,037 in federal grant money.
Here are the numbers per year:
2000- $8,831,655
2001- $8,317,034
2002- $10,215,781
2003- $11,873,279
2004- $10,627,340
2005- $12,055,985
2006 -$3,927,963 (data available for 2006 3Q only)”
UMCES (University of Maryland Center for Environmental Science)is a warmist advocacy group, BTW.
http://tinyurl.com/2f4xxja
“Personal anecdote:
Last spring when I was shopping around for a new source of funding, after having my funding slashed to zero 15 days after going public with a finding about natural climate variations, I kept running into funding application instructions of the following variety:
Successful candidates will:
1) Demonstrate AGW.
2) Demonstrate the catastrophic consequences of AGW.
3) Explore policy implications stemming from 1 & 2.
Follow the money — perhaps a conspiracy is unnecessary where a carrot will suffice.”
Still more. http://tinyurl.com/28pgk92
“Indeed, the success of climate alarmism can be counted in the increased federal spending on climate research from a few hundred million dollars pre-1990 to $1.7 billion today. It can also be seen in heightened spending on solar, wind, hydrogen, ethanol and clean coal technologies, as well as on other energy-investment decisions.”
Apply pressure at the right (political) point (tenure) and viola……retraction pending.
“What’s that, Hadley? No data for the arctic, you say? Well, that’s where it’s warming most catastrophically, then. Send out a press release.”
Does anyone have any Grey Poupon that they can lend the Ignatieff BBQ tour?
They are all out..
Well, well, who’ a’ thunk it. The Left has been lead around by the nose by those who they are out to expose!
Regarding the first link to the GISS data. There is no data because the chosen time interval was not appropriate…there was not enough, or any, temperature readings before 1970 in the higher latitudes. If you look at temperature trends from 1970 and on-2009 you get much more data.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/do_nmap.py?year_last=2010&month_last=6&sat=4&sst=1&type=trends&mean_gen=1212&year1=1980&year2=2009&base1=1951&base2=1980&radius=1200&pol=reg
BTJ, the raw data was eaten by the proverbial homework dog.
I read elsewhere that this whole global warming thing was a canard to distract the world from imperialist expansionism on the part of America (assisted by Britain and Canada).
[smacks forehead] Of course! It’s now obvious!
Those bastards!
“BTJ, the raw data was eaten by the proverbial homework dog.”
What are you talking about? Did you look at the link, is it not common sense that data from polar regions would be lacking prior to the 60’s-70’s and only get better by the 80’s?
Not too mention the original link had the data smoothing set to 250km making it choppy.
BTW, Doug, don’t confuse a ‘viola’ for a ‘violin’. It’s a common misake.
I know, because I used to play the violin.
A viola is not a leader in the orchestra, the violin is.
“BTJ, the raw data was eaten by the proverbial homework dog.”
What are you talking about? Did you look at the link, is it not common sense that data from polar regions would be lacking prior to the 60’s-70’s and only get better by the 80’s?
Not to mention the original link had the data smoothing set to 250km making it choppy.
What are you talking about?
Weren’t they referencing 2 or 3 tree cores?
Enough Inconvienient Ruths crawl out of the hotel notel massage rooms and this SCAM of SCAMS will finally cost Fat AL and his sideshow Suzuker their mansions on the rising waters.
PiperPaul: ha ha.
I’m a professional player (oboist) and a manager and I find myself frequently typing “viola,” even when I am trying to type “voila.”
Q: What is the difference between a viola and a violin?
A: A viola burns longer.
They were referencing the three or four tree ring samples that fit the required out come, the majority were dumped .There are lots of factors affecting tree growth, not all climate based.
Check out the second globe in the link, It shows huge areas of South America as well as the Indian subcontinent as black from lack of data.
Climate modelers cover this by running the programmes and generating smaller boxes or mosaics for the areas known,the rest is “interpolated” Based on any shaky hypothesis.
Garbage In, Garbage Out
BTJ conveniently avoids to talk about the liberal environmental activist’s opinions which are essentially the same as we have been saying all along here: SCAM!
Now come and bore us again by discrediting yet another who surely has more knowledge on the subject than all of us combined here.
BTW, your posted link does not work BTJ…Looks like it’s from NASA. Yes we can trust NASA, here’s just one link that explains how much we should trust NASA:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/dec/03/nasa-embroiled-in-climate-dispute/
The comment about the 250 km smoothing is disengenuous at best. That smoothing was taken from one of the data sets that is commonly used to represent the temperature changes and “measurments” of the planet. The other data set uses a 1200 Km smoothing to account for the lack of actual measurments available.
So basically they are saying that the temperature radings in St Johns are valide for the area 1200 km out into the Atlantic or that the NWT is all the same temperature as Yellowknife.
If the people responsible for the measurments were at all ethical they would do something like oh I don’t know use radius that could be scientifically validated in their data sets.
Just as a for instance the weather folks at CITY tv have set up local weather stations all over the GTA because they weather and notably the temperatures ARE DIFFERENT BETWEEN SAY TORONTO LAKESHORE AND MARKHAM. That is a difference of perhaps 30km.
Until there is some real data verification and realistic projections there is no science there is only advocacy
BJT is just parroting the lefty narative.
Facts and logic are not relevant to him.
My perenial favourite is the claims that the alleged current warming is unprecedented.
They cite retreating Alpine glaciers which have revealed roman roads, iron age artefacts, bronze age artefacts even the adit to a gold mine abandoned early in the Little Ice Age.
There is much merit to the Age of Migrations being a result of cooling in Central Asia not the military/political vacuum of the decling Roman Empire. Indeed the impact of the cooling climate was the major cause of the decline and fall of the Roman Empire in the West.
Right Honourable Terry Tory
Stuff like that is dismissed by the mronic sheeple like BJT—-as a “denier site”.
Then they post a picture of an ice choked Disco Bay as proof that Greenland is breaking up when in reality it is evidence of a growing ice cap not a shrinking one. Blantant and obvious misrepresentation………
Glen shevin, you don’t have to go that far. From my home in Leaside to Lake Ontario is maybe 5kms yet the temperature went from 32 to 27 when I went down to go sailing last week. Most of that of course would be the heat sink of the city which affects 1,000s of square kms stretching along the lake.
this would be the data that they used to report that this was the hottest June on record at 16.2 degrees C. a full 1.2 degrees above the world mean of 15c. That 90% of all temperature gauges are in the northern hemisphere and there is a possible skew to the data would never be noticed. That 1.2 degrees is within the standard deviation would be beyond the MSM level of comprehension.
BTJ, the folks up in Alert, NWT (now Nunavut), the northern most settlement in the world, been taking temperature readings since 1950. Cut the BS, will ya.
Cal2: “That 90% of all temperature gauges are in the northern hemisphere”
Which corresponds roughly to the percentage of the globe’s landmass in which most of the advanced technology and science takes place.
Remember the old North-South divide thing from a few decades ago. Latin America, Africa, South Asia, the Philippines, Indonesia were all basket cases incapable of much more than whining about colonialism, but only too happy to extort billions of aid dollars from their former colonial masters.
“BTW, your posted link does not work BTJ…Looks like it’s from NASA.”
It’s the same as the original link..it’s to the GISS mapping…go to the original link and change the time change series to 1980 to 2009, and change the smoothing to 1200km and you get a complete set of data.
“BTJ conveniently avoids to talk about the liberal environmental activist’s opinions ”
Huh? I was only commenting on the first link because who ever set up the GISS for it is a dumbass and guilty of setting up evidence to support their theory.
“The comment about the 250 km smoothing is disengenuous at best. That smoothing was taken from one of the data sets that is commonly used to represent the temperature changes and “measurments” of the planet. The other data set uses a 1200 Km smoothing to account for the lack of actual measurments available.”
What? The 250km smoothing is attempting to put more detail into the map than is available…I don’t expect their to be available data every 250km, nor does their need to be. It’s called representing data appropriately.
“BJT is just parroting the lefty narative.”
How am I ‘parroting’ the left? I didn’t repeat anything from anywhere, I just went and used the GISS mapping program for myself and used an appropriate setting.
“Then they post a picture of an ice choked Disco Bay as proof that Greenland is breaking up when in reality it is evidence of a growing ice cap not a shrinking one.”
Huh? Random much?
“BTJ, the folks up in Alert, NWT (now Nunavut), the northern most settlement in the world, been taking temperature readings since 1950. Cut the BS, will ya.”
EXACTLY!!!!! 1950! not 1880…so why do you expect data to be there before 1950? PLUS, a few temperature readings are still not enough to give a picture, not until 1970 is there enough readings from higher latitudes to give a complete picture…go to the original link and in the time change series change 1880 to 1980, and then smoothing to 1200km and tell me what you see on the north pole.
Go here, set the map type to ‘Trends’; set the mean period to annual (or whatever you want); set the Time Interval to 1980 to 2009; and hit ‘make map’
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/maps/
Consensus Science ought to be outlawed.
BTJ, do you have even a small clue about how much time in the planet’s history 130 years (2010-1880) represents? Hint: Half a blink of an eye.
Get over it. You and the warmists know nothing about the earth’s history. Zilch. Nada. A big goose egg. An empty hole.
Ever wondered how Roald Admunsen made it through the North West Passage in 1903 or the St. Roch, an RCMP ship, in the early 1940s?
Have you ever considered that historical documents surviving from the Middle Ages attest to the 500 years of successful Viking farming settlements in Greenland and grapes grown in England, where neither is possible today? Or are you one of those who want to destroy such documents because they put the lie to the narrative?
Which reminds me. I was going to put up an entry on my own blog about an actual Great Flood that occurred in the Middle East and South Eastern Europe about 7,400 years ago, which lefties love to dismiss because it sounds too Biblical (ie) Christian.
It seems to me scientists who specialize in climate warmmongering should be required to take a few classes in history and historical geology. They’d be less inclined to make fools of themselves and their groupies wouldn’t be such easy targets.
“BTJ, do you have even a small clue about how much time in the planet’s history 130 years (2010-1880) represents? Hint: Half a blink of an eye”
Great shift in conversation so as to avoid the results of proper use of the GISS mapping.
“Get over it. You and the warmists know nothing about the earth’s history. Zilch. Nada. A big goose egg. An empty hole.”
Easy to say when you ignore everything we do know.
In the grand scheme of things we know nothing about nuclear energy, nothing about the human body, etc, etc, but that doesn’t stop us from using what we do know.
“It seems to me scientists who specialize in climate warmmongering should be required to take a few classes in history and historical geology. They’d be less inclined to make fools of themselves and their groupies wouldn’t be such easy targets.”
I’m pretty sure researchers use any and all available information to create as good of an understanding as they can. You seem to be relying on an unorganized and random understanding of random events/climates through earth’s history. Here’s an idea, try to put it all together to form a story, rather than just pulling random facts out.
Over at Climate Depot under the title “Left-wing Env. Scientist Bails Out Of Global Warming Movement: Declares it a ‘corrupt social phenomenon…strictly an imaginary problem of the 1st World middleclass’” there is the picture of Capt Brian Bews bailing out of his CF 18 last Friday in Lethbridge.
Get over yourselves, you guys. You think AGW is a left wing conspiracy? Nope. The BIG speculative opportunities right now are in carbon offset trading schemes.
The “left” environmentalist movement over the last decade is actually deeply reactionary. They believe in a bizarre mediaeval utopia where 90% of the world’s population dies and the remainder live in lo-tech communes.
That’s anti-industrial AND anti-social. Not to mention anti-science and anti-progress. The only reason an old communist like me can bear to enjoy blogs like yours is that we agree on the idea of progress.
How progress turns out is a different argument :*)
BTJ: “I’m pretty sure researchers use any and all available information to create as good of an understanding as they can.”
Right. So they can conspire to eliminate the Medieval warm period from the record.
“Right. So they can conspire to eliminate the Medieval warm period from the record.”
Great conspiracy theory, you should write fiction. No where is the MWP eliminated…go ahead and search the scientific journals.
Hey, BJ. Check out the audio clip of an interview with Marc Morano by Dennis Rancourt (man in the YouTube video that Kate has posted here) posted at his blog.
http://trainradio.blogspot.com/2010/05/climate-chaos-yeah-right.html
Listen to that and tell us how you intend to squirm out of this one. It’s the big green corporations that did it to ya. They suckered you big time.
BTJ: “No where is the MWP eliminated…go ahead and search the scientific journals.”
================
You’re right. But doesn’t mean they didn’t try.
You and your compatriots are going to melt down from the heat emitted from your faces from the embarrassment.
“Hey, BJ. Check out the audio clip of an interview with Marc Morano by Dennis Rancourt (man in the YouTube video that Kate has posted here) posted at his blog.”
I see you’re still ignoring the GISS data.
In regards to the audio clip…why do you insist on listening to the OPINIONS of political correspondents and politicians? Why do you insist on mixing the SCIENCE of climate change with the POLITICS of climate change.
The man in the audio clip:
“Until spring of 2009, Morano served as communications director for the Republicans on the U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works. Morano commenced work with the committee under Senator James Inhofe, who was majority chairman of the committee until January 2007 and is now minority ranking member. In December 2006 Morano launched a blog on the committee’s website that largely promotes the views of climate change skeptics.
Morano is a former journalist with Cybercast News Service (CNS), which is owned by the conservative Media Research Center.”
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Marc_Morano
An August 2007 entry by Morano on Inhofe’s EPW Committee blog claimed that “proponents of man-made global warming have been funded to the tune of $50 BILLION in the last decade or so, but the Magazine chose instead to focus on how skeptics have reportedly received a paltry $19 MILLION from ExxonMobil over the last two decades.”[8] Morano offered no documentation to support the “$50 BILLION” claim, and cited only one figure to support the “$19 MILLION” claim — a statement that “skeptics have reportedly received a paltry $19 MILLION from ExxonMobil over the last two decades,” falsely suggesting that ExxonMobil was the only source of funding for global warming “skeptics.”[9]
Writing in the New York Times, Leslie Kaufman noted that Morano, while working for Inhofe, had authored a report titled More than 700 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims. One of those cited in the report was Steve Rayner, from Oxford University. However, Rayner — who doesn’t dispute global warming though has been critical of the Kyoto Protocol — described his inclusion as “quite outrageous” and had asked for his name to be removed from the report. Despite being told by an Inhofe staffer that it would be removed, it hasn’t. Morano is unrepentant , claiming instead that Rayner must be “not to be remembering this clearly.”
They should give up while they’re behind.
BTJ uses the same old same old. It’s getting tired, sweetie. You folks on the warmist side have lost the war.
You weren’t very well armed to begin with. All you ever really had in your arsenal was the “discredit the scientist, not the science” weapon. Now you’re only making fools of yourselves by relying on bankrupt old memes.
You should look into the amount of funding your side has managed to extort over the years. You’d be doubly embarrassed (if your head doesn’t explode in the process) to discover how many fat capitalists corporations were involved.
Every so often, I actually have a tiny, but fleeting, bit of pity for your camp. But in the end, your embarrassment has been well earned.
“BTJ uses the same old same old. It’s getting tired, sweetie.”
And just what would be the ‘same old same old’? I find the empty ambiguous rebuttles that do nothing to create a real discussion quite amusing, but otherwise unstimulating and unproductive.
“All you ever really had in your arsenal was the “discredit the scientist, not the science” weapon.”
Huh? The only person I discredited was Marc Morano who is no scientist by any standards..he is a journalist and ‘communications director’ for the Republican party.
” relying on bankrupt old memes.”
Care to share one such meme that I’ve used?
“You should look into the amount of funding your side has managed to extort over the years.”
Funny how people love to make and choose ‘sides’…’us’ vs ‘them’…’me’ vs ‘them’…a condition of the ego, a need to self-identify with a group, a group which is determined by what it is not…’them’.
” You’d be doubly embarrassed (if your head doesn’t explode in the process) to discover how many fat capitalists corporations were involved.”
Please, enlighten me. Anywhere near as big as Big Oil and Gas? Or Big Chemical? Or Big Pharmaceutical?
“Every so often, I actually have a tiny, but fleeting, bit of pity for your camp”
Well it’s touching that you don’t hold on to that pity. Unfortunately, I on the other hand have nothing but utter pity for folks like you.
”
You are an unhappy human being BTJ. Your superior intellect and understanding of man being a parasite and cancer to mother earth resembles the enlightment of a visionary like James Cameron and his documentary movie AVATAR. Yes, that movie “documents” that man is evil just like “The Day after Tomorrow” does. Both movies are based on the new progressive scriptures: “An inconvenient truth”.
Unlike them smart AVATAR natives, we humans, after thousands of years on earth, still have not converged and come as one with nature; naked in the woods; If only we could communicate with mosquitos and deer flies, talk to trees and ride grizzly bears.
I’m not sure if James is unhappy like yourself but he is super rich and that makes him worthy of arrogantly preaching to us poluting maggots; According to the lefty doctrine anyway.
Being Cameron is rich and you are not, it is with my lefty, progressive hat firmly on my nuggen that I decree you kill yourself in the name of Gaia.
Question to the enlightened BTJ before you do your part to save the planet:
If we were like AVATAR and ride wild animals would’nt that be considered animal cruelty? Remember I’m not saying “domesticated” like a horse because in AVATAR world, nothing should be “dominated”, especially coralled and raised.
I know its a tough one, I’ll let you consult with other enlighten people like PETA.
BTJ 7:32 PM
“Care to share one such meme that I’ve used?”
Okey dokey, BTJ, here goes, with apologies in advance for quoting more than one.
Posted by: BTJ at July 27, 2010 7:31 PM
“”In regards to the audio clip…why do you insist on listening to the OPINIONS of political correspondents and politicians? Why do you insist on mixing the SCIENCE of climate change with the POLITICS of climate change.”
Meme #1: “Quote selectively from the evidence provided by skeptics”
#2 coming up.
Opps. Forgot to mention that in the above cited case you also ignored the fact that the man doing the interview, a warmist, Dr. Rancourt, – same guy as in the video posted by Kate – also a extreme leftwinger, NOT tainted by “Conservative connections” – agrees with him on almost every point.
BTJ at 7:31 PM:
“There is no data because the chosen time interval was not appropriate…there was not enough, or any, temperature readings before 1970 in the higher latitudes. If you look at temperature trends from 1970 and on-2009 you get much more data.”
Meme #2: By implication “Upward temperature trends over a very short period of time, while ignoring all past climate data showing upward temperature trends prior to Western industrialization as in the Medieval Warm Period = anthropogenic cause”
“BTJ, do you have even a small clue about how much time in the planet’s history 130 years (2010-1880) represents? Hint: Half a blink of an eye”
BTJ at 11:50 PM:
”Great shift in conversation so as to avoid the results of proper use of the GISS mapping.”
Meme #3: “Deflect and discount all contrary information”
And besides the subject I’m addressing is your request for examples of your memes, so the great “Great shift in conversation” is yours, not mine.
BTJ at 4:13 PM
“Here’s an idea, try to put it all together to form a story, rather than just pulling random facts out.”
Meme #4: “Accuse others of doing the very same thing you do (pulling random facts), and, in a brilliant display of leftie logic, saying that that’s not legit.”
BTJ at 7:31 PM:
“Until spring of 2009, Morano served as communications director for the Republicans on the U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works. Morano commenced work with the committee under Senator James Inhofe, who was majority chairman of the committee until January 2007 and is now minority ranking member. In December 2006 Morano launched a blog on the committee’s website that largely promotes the views of climate change skeptics.
Morano is a former journalist with Cybercast News Service (CNS), which is owned by the conservative Media Research Center.”
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Marc_Morano”
Meme #5: “Assume guilt by association”
BTJ at 7:32 PM:
“An August 2007 entry by Morano on Inhofe’s EPW Committee blog claimed that “proponents of man-made global warming have been funded to the tune of $50 BILLION in the last decade or so, but the Magazine chose instead to focus on how skeptics have reportedly received a paltry $19 MILLION from ExxonMobil over the last two decades.”[8] Morano offered no documentation to support the “$50 BILLION” claim, and cited only one figure to support the “$19 MILLION” claim — a statement that “skeptics have reportedly received a paltry $19 MILLION from ExxonMobil over the last two decades,” falsely suggesting that ExxonMobil was the only source of funding for global warming “skeptics.”[9]
Meme #5: “Assume guilt by association”
Meme #6: “Attach the messenger, not the message”
BTJ at July 27, 2010 7:32 PM
Writing in the New York Times, Leslie Kaufman noted that Morano, while working for Inhofe, had authored a report titled More than 700 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims. One of those cited in the report was Steve Rayner, from Oxford University. However, Rayner — who doesn’t dispute global warming though has been critical of the Kyoto Protocol — described his inclusion as “quite outrageous” and had asked for his name to be removed from the report. Despite being told by an Inhofe staffer that it would be removed, it hasn’t. Morano is unrepentant , claiming instead that Rayner must be “not to be remembering this clearly.”
Meme #7: (In bolded part) “Scream bloody murder when a supposed “sin” is committed by skeptics, while ignoring or downplaying the same “sin” if it’s committed by the IPCC.” (See the film The Great Global Warming Swindle’s account from Paul Reiter where he recounts the very same “sin” committed by the IPCC)
Now, moving on to your quest for enlightenment at 11:50 PM:
Please, enlighten me. Anywhere near as big as Big Oil and Gas? Or Big Chemical? Or Big Pharmaceutical?
Let’s include big government in cahoots with big Oil, etc. as well as Big Green and their assorted Green groupies on the left. In any case, here’s the first of a good rundown:
http://tinyurl.com/yp822w
“The only problem is — Newsweek knew better. Reporter Eve Conant, who interviewed Senator James Inhofe (R-Okla.), the Ranking Member of the Environment & Public Works Committee, was given all the latest data proving conclusively that it is the proponents of man-made global warming fears that enjoy a monumental funding advantage over the skeptics. (A whopping $50 BILLION to a paltry $19 MILLION and some change for skeptics – Yes, that is BILLION to MILLION – see below)”
Read the whole thing.
More on alarmist funding:
http://tinyurl.com/2cc4947
“Since 2000, UMCES has received $65,849,037 in federal grant money.
Here are the numbers per year:
2000- $8,831,655
2001- $8,317,034
2002- $10,215,781
2003- $11,873,279
2004- $10,627,340
2005- $12,055,985
2006 -$3,927,963 (data available for 2006 3Q only)”
UMCES (University of Maryland Center for Environmental Science)is a warmist advocacy group, BTW.
http://tinyurl.com/2f4xxja
“Personal anecdote:
Last spring when I was shopping around for a new source of funding, after having my funding slashed to zero 15 days after going public with a finding about natural climate variations, I kept running into funding application instructions of the following variety:
Successful candidates will:
1) Demonstrate AGW.
2) Demonstrate the catastrophic consequences of AGW.
3) Explore policy implications stemming from 1 & 2.
Follow the money — perhaps a conspiracy is unnecessary where a carrot will suffice.”
Still more.
http://tinyurl.com/28pgk92
“Indeed, the success of climate alarmism can be counted in the increased federal spending on climate research from a few hundred million dollars pre-1990 to $1.7 billion today. It can also be seen in heightened spending on solar, wind, hydrogen, ethanol and clean coal technologies, as well as on other energy-investment decisions.”