Dear Tom,
I find it hard to believe that the British Antarctic Survey would permit the deletion of relevant files for two recent publications or that there aren’t any backups for the deleted data on institutional servers. Would you mind inquiring for me? In the mean time, would you please send me the PP format files that you refer to here for the monthly sea ice data for the 20th century models discussed in your GRL article and the 21st century models referred to in your JGR article.
Regards, Steve McIntyre
Then in July… “Unprecedented” Data Purge At CRU
On Monday, July 27, 2009, as reported in a prior thread, CRU deleted three files pertaining to station data from their public directory ftp.cru.uea.ac.uk/. The next day, on July 28, Phil Jones deleted data from his public file – see screenshot with timestemp in post here, leaving online a variety of files from the 1990s as shown in the following screenshot taken on July 28, 2009.
The Telegraph, today – Climategate: University of East Anglia U-turn in climate change row ….. Leading British scientists at the University of East Anglia, who were accused of manipulating climate change data – dubbed Climategate – have agreed to publish their figures in full….
Now, here comes the other shoe! Hide the Decline!
SCIENTISTS at the University of East Anglia (UEA) have admitted throwing away much of the raw temperature data on which their predictions of global warming are based.
It means that other academics are not able to check basic calculations said to show a long-term rise in temperature over the past 150 years.
The UEA’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) was forced to reveal the loss following requests for the data under Freedom of Information legislation.
The data were gathered from weather stations around the world and then adjusted to take account of variables in the way they were collected. The revised figures were kept, but the originals — stored on paper and magnetic tape — were dumped to save space when the CRU moved to a new building.”
[…]
In a statement on its website, the CRU said: “We do not hold the original raw data but only the value-added (quality controlled and homogenised) data.”
The CRU is the world’s leading centre for reconstructing past climate and temperatures. Climate change sceptics have long been keen to examine exactly how its data were compiled. That is now impossible.
(More to come later. I”m compiling other developments over the weekend so they’ll be top of page for Monday post-holiday traffic.)
h/t Ron in Kelowna and Maz2, and to everyone else out there keeping track.
************************************
Original post “U-Turn Ahead” renamed and edited with update
************************************
SDA gets results 🙂
Almost 51 million hits at Bing for clim(ategate) , wow .
Sounds more like a crash than a U-turn.
With flames.
wow
Sue them All
Sounds more like a crash than a U-turn.
With flames.
wow
Sue them All
Nobody on any blog or comments section in any newspaper has answered the “what would you cut challenge. They are all gutless and clueless but demand Canada “do something”.
I repeat the challenge and hope everyone here asks their greenie friends. Challenge all the greenie do-gooders, the suzuki butt lickers, the socialist mumbo-jumbo morons the big city latte liberals, all the soft headed warm comfy fur types who think it will be painless to be part of the Great Carbon Ponzi Scheme.
In order to fall in line with the Copenhagen/COP15 agreement Canada needs to cut 150,000 Mt of carbon emissions from our annual level.
The table below lists the major carbon emission sources. So your task is to choose which areas of the Canadian economy to devastate . . . but you total cuts needs to add up to 150,000 Mt.
After you have figured out what parts of the economy need to go bye-bye, then address the COP 15 para 41 requirement . . . you know the one where it says Canada needs to start paying an annual amount equal to a minimum of 0.7% of our GDP for our “Climate Debt”.
0.7% is about $9 billion dollars annually . . . so what are you going to cut out of the current Federal budget to free up $9+ billion annually ?
I’d cut Equalization payments to Provinces – but you-know-who would go ballistic because although they deny they are net recipients of Canadian largesse, they would whine like stuck pigs if their entitlement to the entitlement was cut off.
Electric/heat generation 126 000
Fossil Fuel Industries 70,000
Mining & Gas 23,000
Residential 40,000
Automobile 41, 000
Light Gas trucks 45, 000
Heavy Gas Trucks 6,640
Heavy Diesel Trucks 40,100
Railways 7,000
Off Road Diesel 25,000
Off Road Gas 6,7000
Domestic Aviation 7, 804
Metal Production 13, 800
My solution . . . take every car & truck off our roads, stop every train, ground every plane and tie up every ship.
That will meet the required target and shouldn’t have too much of an impact on our economy.
Should it ?
Bet google has at least that many CG hits, but Fat Gore ‘directed’ them to tone it down.
Fred
Now isn’t THAT an Inconvenient Truth?
Thanks for all your work at keeping us informed Kate.
I also sent an e-mail to Coren thanking him for ‘going against the flow’. He suggests an e-mail to the editor as well.
“Climategate” surpasses “Global Warming” on Google
But autosuggest still blocked; WUWT
Thanks for all your work at keeping us informed Kate.
I also sent an e-mail to Coren thanking him for ‘going against the flow’. He suggests an e-mail to the editor as well.
Fred;
How much would be saved if every Greenie quit breathing for ten yrs? (that’s my solution to this non issue)
Discussion at WUWT re: google being ‘in on it’.
Gore was introduced on CBC radio Wednesday as a ‘board member of Google.’
I thought I was the last one to find out that little tid bit. Apparently not.
I read in the news today(Globe&Mail) comes the story that the so-called expanding Artic ice is just an illusion. The surface area is about the same but it’s a lot thinner.
Multiyear ice used to cover 90% of the Artic basin, now it is roughly 20%. Where it use to be up to 10 meters thick, it’s now 2 meters at the most.
Something’s happening here. Yet you blockheads just don’t want to get it, that climate warming is happening. All your huffing and puffing is not going to change that.
With apologies to the Buffalo Springfield
There’s something happening here
What it is seems plenty clear
There’s a man with facts over there
Telling me I got to beware
I think it’s time we stop, children what’s that sound
Everybody look what’s going down
It’s climate warming, you bunch of clowns
There’s battle lines being drawn
The right wing nuts are so very wrong
Young people speaking their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind
…………………………………….
These brigands say they will produce the data but how can they when they have declared “the dog ate their home-work?” Which is an offence in and of itself?
They are still stalling for time, and brazening it out.
They are stalling with this “….the university said it would make all the data accessible as soon as possible, once its Climatic Research Unit (CRU) had negotiated its release from a range of non-publication agreements.”
They are hoping for Global Government in Copenhagen, which will negate any disclosure of “Inconvenient Truth”.
It is time to hunt them down with dogs.
Nuckthing
What your esteemed ‘scientist’ did not state, is, exactly where he went, for how long, nor disclosed his track, so given that lack of information, I will take his rant with a grain of salt, a big grain.
Of course if he’s traversing the edges of the ice floes, he will not find thick ice. But if he aimed at the north pole, and got there easy, thru ‘2 metres of ice’ , then you might have something. Instead, it’s a lack of information disclosed. Therefore, I will take his opinion as just another warmonger, like yourself, as one with blind faith, and no time for dissenting opinions or facts.
Tell me, how does transferring 0.7% of GDP to third world despots end globull warming? How does that stop CO2 emissions? it doesn’t, as this jig is all about redistribution of wealth, and cherry picked data, as well as looking at events that are part of a natural evolution of the earth’s natural climate system.
Where are all the hurricanes? Oops, another inconvenient truth.
More from TimesUK.
…-
“Climate change data dumped
SCIENTISTS at the University of East Anglia (UEA) have admitted throwing away much of the raw temperature data on which their predictions of global warming are based.
It means that other academics are not able to check basic calculations said to show a long-term rise in temperature over the past 150 years.
The UEA’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) was forced to reveal the loss following requests for the data under Freedom of Information legislation.
The data were gathered from weather stations around the world and then adjusted to take account of variables in the way they were collected. The revised figures were kept, but the originals — stored on paper and magnetic tape — were dumped to save space when the CRU moved to a new building.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6936328.ece
The Antarctic ice sheet has been getting thicker . that is how it pushes out into the ocean.
the wobble in the earth’s orbit tends to favour one pole at a time.
remember the alternative time when the arctic icesheet extended into Minnesota. I dont remember myself but it was only 10000 years ago.
Humans are a result of climate change not a cause. Try living anywhere north of Olduvai gorge
about 50,000 years ago.
My proposal ,Fred, is to shut down one city at a time for a month, no heat , no lights, no cars, you cant leave until the results of this nonsense sink in.
.
.
Look, you guys. With corruption of this magnitude, and as far-reaching as it is — trillions of dollars, billions of people, lasting misery for centuries — any self-respecting search engine should be producing results for “climategate” etc. BEFORE anything is typed in.
Like after a close-miss of an approaching 1 km sized asteroid, or bigger, there should be sirens wailing. NOT as a warning signal but as an ALL-CLEAR signal.
In the morning the paper-boys should be yelling on the street corners, the shoe-shiners and barbers should be relaying the good-news. It should be proclaimed from the pulpits tomorrow morning, as church-bells ring.
We are not going to fry after all. We can fart, guiltless.
“Beans, dear; beans! Let’s have beans tonight.”
.
.
Looks to me like Harper will have little trouble saying “no deal”. Let them scream their heads off back at home, by the time he gets home there will be even more exposure even without the msm.
I am now using Bing as my search engine. The second thing I entered after “Climategate,” was “Goodbye google.” I got 8,900,000 hits.
Canuckguy, links please; not G&M article, but where they got their data on arctic ice.
Haven’t heard any of this, so let us know.
Something’s happening here.
Yeah, and what it is isn’t clear to even you AGW cultists.
Try explaining away the increasing Antarctic ice with your factless Suzuki-approved talking points, idiot.
They have a TV program called Question Time on BBC in Britain where the public put questions to politicians and “celebrities”. Climategate was one of the questions that came up this week. On the panel was Melanie Phillips who is a wicked climate change denier and some “comedian” called Marcus Brigstocke. When the issue of AGW came up Phillips essentially said it was bunk. Brigstocke and the BBC conditioned audience were horrified. One of the audience claimed the flooding recently in Cumbria was directly related to “global warming” I felt like shouting at the ignorant muppet “what about 1953 then?” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_flood_of_1953
Some people are just beyond help I fear. I hope this scandal continues to grow but as far as the BBC and much of the media are concerned it is a non story. Even the leader of the supposi-tories David Cameron is still singing from the warmists hymn book. Mind you when they start shutting down Britain’s worn out nuclear reactors in the next few years I suspect they will realise that keeping the power on is more important than appeasing these watermelon fanatics.
Waterhouse
You called some one an idiot.
I agree.
I believe his song was written on CRU graph paper. You know, the kind Mann uses to make bad hockey sticks.
Cru is using the “Trust us: defence.
In other places that is known as the:
Bernie Madoff defense
The Enron Defense
The “I didn’t have tortuous relations with that data defense”
“were dumped to save space when the CRU moved to a new building”
I bet I could fit about 20 8Gb USB hard drives in my front pocket, and still sit comfortably. This would likely hold more raw data than could be analyzed in a person’s lifetime.
I just entered clim at google.com and the suggested
matches list showed climategate as the first entry.
Picking that, Google found 5,430,000 references.
Fred;
How much would be saved if every Greenie quit breathing for ten yrs? (that’s my solution to this non issue)
Not nearly enough, although the “sound” of Lizzie May being silent would be priceless.:)
supposi-tories?
Suprised they didn’t try the ever popular “but the cat ate my raw data…”
Deleted original data………….
You know, in my previous career, my job was a surveyor, for construction and legal types of work.
We had various files of data that were created used, etc, but, above all else, what was most important, was keeping the ‘raw data’. Those files were the bread and butter of the work. Without those, our work was not defensible, if mistakes were made. This was where we could re-create our modelling when things went awry.
Those scientists are idiots. Tossing your raw, original data is just moronic, especially in a controversial field like climate science.
This just starts to stink more by the minute.
Posted by: Canuckguy at 6:55 PM
yup (I’ll not refer to you as an idiot as someone else in here did, as idiots do have feelings)the sea ice melted, and is re-appearing, and it will take time to get multi-year ice in some areas, fact it will take “multi-years, capice. Now as to why the ice melted in the first place, as it has done before as well, is because of ocean current changes, which has also occurred in times past. I have to suspect that A) you didn’t receive the memo, or, B) you didn’t read the news, as the IPCC, Hansen, and even Fat Gore admitted to the fact that it was current changes, and not Gorebulwarming , that caused the ice melt, just as it did in the late 1800’s
Now unless you have something useful or intelligent to respond with, I would suggest that silence would be your best bet as to demonstrating that you have at least some intelligence
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/quirks-blog/
Another comment board that needs enlightment, by the Ceeb’s own Bob McDonald, fellow traveller of Suzookis….
Fred at 6:39pm Thanks, Hear is something we can Propose to our earth muffins friends.
You can only drive your car once every 4 days +30,250
Heavy diesel trucks- can only deliver once every 4 days +30,025
Electrical and heat generation- No air conditioning and for winter thier would be a max setting on the thermostats of 10 degrees C.
+63,000
Residential – you would only be able to use your household appliances one day in 4 as well to catch up on the news and prepare your food and have a hot bath.+30,000
total 153,275 Mt (inflation)
Now the 9+ billion, Heavy fines for breaking the rules by earth muffins.
CRU Moving List:
Computer…check
Desk and chair…check
Grant applications…check
Coffee mug and ethical coffee…check
Personally autographed copy of An Inconvenient Truth…check
Crucial raw data hardcopies and databases…unnecessary clutter
Seems reasonable to me.
The song For What It’s Worth, written by Steven Stills in 1966, was actually about the run-ins between the cops and the hippies over the closing of Pandora’s Box, a club on the Sunset Strip in West Hollywood.
For what it’s worth, herein lies the irony Canuckguy surely missed — that once the contents of Pandora’s Box has escaped, it can’t be put back again.
but remember wingwalker that the only thing left in pandora’s box was ‘hope’…
NOT ‘hope and change….’
How much, PM Harper? How many of our tax dollars have gone to Gaia?
Canada is fleeced by the AGWarmists.
Did you vote Conservative for this?
…-
“Canada agrees to contribute to $10-billion climate-change fund
Canada has agreed to write a cheque for a $10-billion (U.S.) fund that would help poor nations cope with the consequences of climate change but Prime Minister Stephen Harper isn’t budging on calls for his government to offer deeper and faster cuts in greenhouse gas emissions.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/canada-agrees-to-contribute-to-10-billion-climate-change-fund/article1381653/
When I was in school you got a failing grade for not showing your work.
…*in my best Ronald Reagan voice*…
“Mr. Harper, tear up that check!”
.
.
Wikipee piddle (same puddle)…
“Small differences in initial conditions (such as those due to rounding errors in numerical computation) yield widely diverging outcomes for chaotic systems, rendering long-term prediction impossible in general.”
“Chaotic behavior can be observed in many natural systems, such as the weather.”
Maybe it would have dried up, but now it won’t?
.
.
Attention Shamrock:
I don’t have links to the data, it’s Saturday’s article in the Globe&Mail. The fellow is ‘one of Canada’s top northern researchers’ ,a David Barber who holds the chair in Artic science at the University of Manitoba. His findings are soon to be published in the journal Geophysical Research Letters. Meanwhile just read the article in the newspaper.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/arctic-sea-ice-has-nearly-vanished-expert-fears/article1381174/
Lost your original data!!
HA HA HA!!
This has got to be the biggest
“THE DOG ATE MY HOMEWORK” goes global excuse
since Bernie Madoff started injecting steroids into his ponzie scheme.
NO CHECKS, NO BALANCES, NO TREATY!
Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
The science is scuttled.
and the AGW BS wagon keeps spreading it manure…
Polar Bears resort to cannibalism due to you guessed it AGW!!!
Polar bears turn into cannibals
Melting ice caps make hunting seals more difficult
Scientists say shrinking Arctic sea ice may be forcing some polar bears into cannibalizing young cubs.
http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/11/28/11961626-sun.html
When is the LSM going to come up with the AGW causes humans to resort to cannibalism story?
Oh please your desperation is so obvious…
Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
Deleting or cooking data! If you are an assayist for
a gold mine, or a medical researcher, or a biochemist, that can get you a stay in the local penitentiary. Lab books are legal documents.
My biochemistry colleagues lock theirs up in safes every night. The Baltimore-Imanishi-Kari affair turned on the possibility that data had been invented.
I don’t know what the practice is with large data sets, but I intend to ask.
The Had Crew have erased the original data. This is the only possible explanation if they do not produce it.
I might add to my above post that entries in a lab book
should be made in ink, and if an entry is corrected it is to be crossed out, in ink,
so that it remains legible, and the correction written above it, in ink.
These people at the CRU are not scientists!!!!!!!
To those patriotic Canadians calling for Canada’s dismissal from the Commonwealth, it would be the Commonwealth’s loss, not ours.
wingwalker: “Mr. Harper, tear up that check!”
Oooh, good one. I am so stealing that.