Y2Kyoto: As The Poles Evaporate And Tundra Clouds Darken The Skies

Climate Cult 85 Comments

The climate’s in the very best of hands…

“We’re seeing the reality of a lot of the North Pole starting to evaporate, and we could get to a tipping point. Because if it evaporates to a certain point – they have lanes now where ships can go that couldn’t ever sail through before. And if it gets to a point where it evaporates too much, there’s a lot of tundra that’s being held down by that ice cap..”

Now, there’s a question for our AGW true believers – is airborne tundra entered into the climate models as earth warming “insulation” or earth cooling particulates? (Please show your math.)

85 Replies to “Y2Kyoto: As The Poles Evaporate And Tundra Clouds Darken The Skies”

  1. “And if it gets to a point where it evaporates too much, there’s a lot of tundra that’s being held down by that ice cap..” ”
    Ahhhhhhhhhh….correct me if I’m wrong,but is not the polar icecap ALL on the Arctic Ocean? So when did tundra start growing hydroponically? Maybe the Goracle/Fruitfly can explain that Gaia miracle to me!?

  2. I think he’s referring to the frozen deep soil, the permafrost zone, of the Arctic. When/if it unfreezes, it will release its stored carbon. As gas.
    What Gore ignores, because he seems ignorant of the nature of a biological system, is that this unfreezing of the deep soil and the release of carbon will unleash – not global warming – but a massive increase in the plant and animal life that makes use of this carbon.
    At the moment, because of the low carbon availability in these areas, the number of plant and animal species is very low. Release that vital carbon requirement and the tundra, which is now akin to a desert, will explose with new life and will make extensive use of carbon.

  3. I believe Waxman is being mis-quoted: what he is actually saying is that his head is over-heating and as a result, his hair is evaporating away (even more) and leaving behind a barren tundra landscape.
    And that is just on the outside, on the inside it has been barren for quite some time. What exactly is causing this overheating in Waxman’s head is unknown, but some surmise that it is directly attributable to being in such perpetual close proximity to a large heat source. Two possibilities for this heat source are:
    1) Al Gore’s mouth
    2) Waxman’s own azz
    but being that the two are so close in shape, size, smell, etc it is hard to be sure.

  4. Meanwhile as bylined in the National Post, “Cold weather freezes out Edmonton Earth Day organizers” (for the second year in a row).

  5. Any bets on when some media ninny is going to link swine flu, global warming, and the oilsands?
    I’ll bet the first two have already been linked.

  6. I can’t imagine the level of ignorance of those topics you’d have to have to make that sentence.

  7. The thing about Al Gore and people like him, is that they are working from a mechanical model.
    A mechanical model, which pertains only to machines, i.e., man-made things, is a ‘steady-state model’. Things are made and are supposed to be kept and maintained by a Higher Power in that steady-state. If they change from that steady-state, they are becoming weak and require repairs. Or flinging on the trash.
    But life, which is made up of physical, chemical and biological processes, is not mechanical. It doesn’t operate in a steady-state but in an interactive, organic, adaptive and evolving network. There’s no such thing as a steady-state outside of a machine. In nature, a release of one chemical will rapidly get taken up by another system. This may be beneficial or harmful in the short term but in the long run, the WHOLE system adapts constructively. It will develop immunities to the parts that are harmful..etc.
    We see how, when a patch of forest is laid bare, almost immediately, from ‘nowhere’, new forms of life appear in that bare area. We call them weeds; whatever…they make use of that new area. The same with a water flow…new plants and animals will move in to make use of that water. The same with a chemical..which plants require. The new plant life in the Arctic will be impressive – and the birds and mammals that feed on these plants – will be equally expanded and impressive.

  8. “Never let a good crisis go to waste”, an allegedly wise man once said, so here goes:
    I believe the about-to-become-pandemic of swine flu is man-made, by laboratories in the hire of the “New World Order”, funded by George Soros et al, and shilled by Barack Obama, et al(Gore).
    So far, the msm has kept it quiet, but I have it on good authority that the flu has only affected Republicans and other Conservatives.
    The influenza virus, modified in the underground labs at Roswell, New Mexico, have been genetically altered to kill Right Wingers, while making Left Wingers only mildly ill.
    The NWO, which includes the powerful “Earth Firsters”, has long planned an epidemic to reduce the world’s population by 75%, and they’ve finally hit the jackpot, with the swine flu.
    The proof, I believe, is in the oft repeated LW epithet, “Republican Swine”, and now they’ve named their masterpiece “swine flu”! It does display a sense of humour many of us thought the Left incapable of, but evil genius sometimes surprises.
    There have been reports of “chemtrails” seen over every single area where the SF has struck! It’s NO COINCIDENCE.
    Remember, the Air Fleet is now in the hands of Obama and Soros!
    Let’s see if this will spread around the internet as quickly as the “9-11 Truth”. 😉

  9. That’s why they call him the “Senator from Circus-Circus” you know. Because he’s a freakin’ clown.

  10. ET…you and I know what the tundra is.Myself,lived 6 years in and around it.BUT…the eco-cultists will play on the ignorance of the sheeple,who will believe that melting ice in/on the Arctic Ocean,will melt/vapourize tundra.Ummmmmm….maybe they can shift all that melting permafrost south to Death Valley to turn it into a garden of Eden???

  11. Porcine “flu” link to AGW as provided by Goreacle, aka manbearpig.
    …-
    “Is the Recent Outbreak of Swine Flu Caused by Global Warming?
    This outbreak is predicted to become a pandemic. Did this happen because of global warming?
    Could we have stopped this if we just cared about our planet just a little more?
    * 2 days ago”
    urlm.in/ceji

  12. Forget about the tundra – just keep those pictures of the polar bears floating on the lone piece of ice coming – they are great for business!
    Signed, the environmental movement

  14. He’s referring to a theory called “post-glacial rebound” that says the earth will expand as the polar ice caps melt away. It remains a theory because no one is sure what the effects will be, but rebound is an understood principle in physics, geology and engineering.
    Essentially it says that if you remove a weight from a mass of earth, the ground beneath will rise up. It’s well understood in mining (especially the open-pit variety) and cave-ins are often associated with rebound.
    I suspect that Mr. Waxman’s understanding of the phenomenon isn’t that deep, as he’s a lawyer by training rather than a practitioner of the physical sciences. However, one of the overlooked effects of the theory (if it proved correct) would be an overall rise in land elevation, which would probably mitigate any rise in sea elevations.

  15. dmorris wrote: believe the about-to-become-pandemic of swine flu is man-made, by laboratories in the hire of the “New World Order”, funded by George Soros et al, and shilled by Barack Obama, et al(Gore).
    Clearly the beginning of a cover-up by the Communist Jewish Islamist Fascist Vatican Big-Pharma Talk-Radio Conspiracy!

  16. Good analogy of the tundra ‘ET’ but I like ‘Frenchie77’ analogy better.

  17. Show you the math? I’ll bet you think the moon landing was filmed at an Arizona back lot.

  18. “He’s referring to a theory called “post-glacial rebound”
    It is actually called “Isostatic Rebound / Eustatic Adjustment”.
    It is quite well understood in Geomorphology. No surprises, old news. For example it explains why the Ottawa Valley has numerous small earthquakes and there is solid evidence of old salt water beaches in the Gatineau Hills north of Parliament Hill – it is not difficult to find sea shell pieces around Pink’s Lake.

  19. Anyone who can’t see the truth of AGW is willfully ignorant. It is obvious that the entire agenda is to tax citizens to increase the government’s spending power and influence. As I said last week, we can take a bit of solace knowing that our own politicians are hip to the scam, and are intent on harvesting the fruits of AGW for themselves; instead of sending the money abroad as the envioro-tards and the UN would wish.
    The down side is this money will be used to promote a socialist agenda. This could be the end of the free-market as we’ve known it in the US. We are embarking on a future where the government pays the corporation to manufacture the products the government dictates. Unfortunately, the business environment will be so oppressive that smaller private companies will not be able to produce products that people demand or that compete with the government backed mega-corporations.
    The irony IMO, is all the leftards that seem determined to give more power, and their own money to “BIG CORPERATIONS” and their elites.
    BTW, what Phantom said also.

  20. Countdown. How long until one of the doom meisters comes up with the melting icecaps will upset the balance of earth? Yep when that ice melts the rotation of the earth will be skewed and we will wobble off into deep space and die.

  22. It is obvious that the entire agenda is to tax citizens to increase the government’s spending power and influence.

    I think it’s much more than that, Indiana. CO2 is a harmless byproduct of fossil fuel, and it’s fossil fuel that seems to be the target of this scam. The war on fossil fuel has been raging for a long time, and the technology behind the burning of fossil fuel has continued to advance and make it cleaner and cleaner. So now they’ve found a way to claim that the cleanest byproduct of burning fossil fuels is actually a serious pollutant. The tax is simply a means for them to make fossil fuels so unaffordable that nobody will use it any more.

  23. If Al Gore can claim that Love Story was written about him and Tipper, I wonder if Waxman thinks that the movie Penelope is a gender bending story of his life?

  24. And with this level of intellect shall the US replace the carbon-based electrical generation with wind and solar.
    Waxman has done the math, and believes he can make water flow uphill, by Democratic Fiat.
    All he has to do is pass a law, and new efficiencies will be found that will make solar viable.
    Nevermind that anybody who managed to do this already would be a zillionaire many times over.
    Our ‘professional’ journalists let them get away with this snake oil sales.
    Guess what is not needed when the economy really tanks? Newspapers and television. Really smart move there…

  25. Look, cut Waxman some slack. He had just come out of an extensive briefing on climate change from algore.
    I’m surprised he wasn’t walking around with a terror-moistened gusset, and speaking in tongues about the Rising Of The Waters and the impending carbon-fuelled extinction of the South Rhode Island Black-Eyed Bandersnatch. Now that, you know, global warming has already cost us the Loch Ness Monster and is fixing to have Ted Turner show up on your doorstep with a knife and fork and a hungry gleam in his eye.

  26. >> Meanwhile as bylined in the National Post, “Cold weather freezes out Edmonton Earth Day organizers” (for the second year in a row).
    According to the Edmonton Sun, it’s been postponed for a couple of months. I guess Lenin’s birthday is an inauspicious date to schedule such an event.

  27. Pete
    I respectfully disagree. It is my opinion that the fossil fuel haters /envioro-tards are only “useful idiots” in the equation. The idiots have had their agenda hijacked by what is too many entities to count. Fossil fuels, CO2, AGW ect. are the guise being used to institute socialism by stealth, and by another name. There is no alternative to fossil fuels, and there isn’t one on the horizon(this is know by all except for the useful idiots). What is on the horizon is a constant demand for a product which will become much more expensive, but still remains a necessity. Originally Kyoto was a mechanism to transfer wealth from wealthy countries that have high energy demands because of climate and other factors, to countries that don’t have the same demands or wealth. As I stated earlier, the transfer will remain, but it will be within our borders. It will be a transfer from west to east in Canada, from Red state to Blue state in the US, and from private companies/citizens to public companies.
    To paraphrase, I agree that the goal is to make fossil fuels extremely expensive, but where you steer wrong is it has never been the intent for people to stop using these fuels. Our Carbon taxing friends are depending on the revenues from Carbon taxes.
    Need proof? Ask yourself why those that are adamant about combating AGW are also adamant about bailing out the Carbon spewing auto sector? JMO

  28. OK, so Waxman is misinformed on the actual mechanics of global warming and thus should keep his trap shut. No doubt about that. However you denialist lot jump on his ignorance to expound your own global warming debunking nonsense such as the following ‘bring it on’ take on global warming by ET
    “…, is that this unfreezing of the deep soil and the release of carbon will unleash – not global warming – but a massive increase in the plant and animal life that makes use of this carbon.”–ET So ET implies all will be well because the tundra will turn into another carbon sink like the Amazon. Good grief. Stupidity reigns here. ET, what planet are you from? Phone home and have somebody take you away.
    As for the ill informed comments about the upward expanding of the surface when the ice caps melts, that only pertains to the land under the massively thick icecaps in Greenland and Antartica and any of the islands in the Artic that have a very thick ice cap.
    Herringchoker(must be a fellow New Brunswicker) made this equally stunning stupid comment:
    ” However, one of the overlooked effects of the theory – post-glacial rebound – (if it proved correct) would be an overall rise in land elevation, which would probably mitigate any rise in sea elevations.
    Well herringchoker, That land under the ice caps may rise but your beach front property(if you have one) will not. Please give your head a shake.
    It is also a sad state of affairs that you SDA’ers and others have reduced the global warming discussions to a Right vs The Left bashing.
    It’s not a leftist plot, It’s a real scientific issue and I predict that within 5 years, you will all have to eat crow for being so wrong.

  29. It appears that incompetence and profound ignorance are requirements to be in the Obama administration.

  30. Canuckguy says “It’s not a leftist plot, It’s a real scientific issue and I predict that within 5 years, you will all have to eat crow for being so wrong.”
    A scientific issue? Well not anymore. The stench of politics has overpowered the science by a huge margin. Actually, it IS a leftist plot. As for your prediction, I predict that it is about as valid as those made by Hansen a number of years ago.

  33. Canukguy…simple test for you…put 6 ounces of H20 into a 8 oz glass.Now add 4 ice cubes.Let the ice cubes melt.Does the cup overflow??? Try it,and get back to us.

  34. “It’s a real scientific issue and I predict that within 5 years, you will all have to eat crow for being so wrong.”
    I remember people saying that 5 years ago. Some form of AGW theory has been around since at least 1988.
    A guy who doesn’t know the difference between evaporation and melting has his name on the climate change bill. I find it hard to believe he can objectively look at climate change science and make a decision when it looks like he had trouble passing grade 6 science.

  35. Canuckguy
    “It’s not a leftist plot, It’s a real scientific issue and I predict that within 5 years, you will all have to eat crow for being so wrong.”
    Dude, that’s what Al Gore said in the 2000 Presidential election.
    Are you a leftist?
    This discussion goes straight down political lines, and when you get to the nuts and bolts of it, it’s about TAXING people.
    As for your statement, it borders on idiocy! Seriously dude; typically I don’t call people names but c’mon. Ask yourself a question. What do you think is going to actually happen in five years(besides you warning us about what’s going to happen in five years)? And, if what you think IS going to happen in five years really happens, is “cap’trade” going to prevent what’s going to happen in five years? Are we really going to look back in five years and regret not voting for Stephan Dion? Better yet, if we elected Stephan Dion and let him govern would we have been in the clear?
    It is you buddy who has said: “It’s not a leftist plot, It’s a real scientific issue and I predict that within 5 years, you will all have to eat crow for being so wrong.” And it is you who’s posted it for prosperities sake. One day you’ll be able to show this to your kids as an example of the stupid things people say when they are uninformed.

  37. i can’t wait until it’s 80f all over the planet. mn, more food no more burning of fossil fuels no more worry about co2. life will be wonderful. no more meaningless discussions no more wasted words. f–king wonderful.

  38. Old white guy, that’s when the forecast will be “mild, with the possibility of scattered tundra showers”.

  39. Canuckguy, your ‘real scientific issue’ falls into the following categories. There are two main bases of evidence used to substantiate AGW. The first is the global temperature record and CO2 concentrations as measured by various instruments, and the second is computer climate modeling and paleo-reconstruction.
    The direct temperature measurements show either little significant trend (satellite and radiosonde) or are contaminated by heat island effects (ground based). You find nothing unduly suspicious of Phil Jones refusing for nearly two decades to divulge his climate station data base. The ice core data shows CO2 following, not preceding, temperature change, and in any case the ice core data is in conflict with direct chemical atmospheric measurement over the past two centuries.
    With respect to the second, the paleo-reconstructions have been shown to be artifacts of their methodology, and hence evidence of nothing. They are only as valid as their inputs, and since The Team usually refuses to divulge their methodology and frequently the raw data used, no weight can be placed on any of Their findings. Tell me, Canuckguy, does the phrase ‘bristlecone pine’ mean anything to you?
    There is indeed a scientific issue; namely, how the promoters of AGW can violate fundamental scientific principles and practice and still be accepted as science.

  40. If it bleeds it leads
    has been replaced by
    if it melts it leads.
    [ ICE AT THE NORTH POLE IN 1958 and 1959 – NOT SO Thick
    What would NSIDC and our media make of a photo like this if released by the NAVY today? Would we see headlines like “NORTH POLE NOW OPEN WATER”? Or maybe “Global warming melts North Pole”? Perhaps we would. sensationalism is all the rage these days. If it melts it makes headlines. ] WUWT
    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/04/26/ice-at-the-north-pole-in-1958-not-so-thick/

  44. The next time you’re in a mischievous mood, say the following to a Gore-Suzuki Disciple:
    “You believe in Global Warming, right? Do you realize that Carbon Dioxide is essentially plant food? Without it, all plants on the earth will die. Why are you for killing plants?”
    Warning: You may see a brain explode right in front of you!

  46. I happened to catch a few moments of Lou Dobbs on CNN over the weekend and he read off a few global warming and other environmental disaster headlines about what was going to happen in 5, 10 or 20 years. Horrible things!
    Turns out, they were from the first Earth Day “celebration” in the 1970’s…AND NONE OF THEM HAVE COME TO PASS EVEN REMOTELY.
    So, Canuckguy, add your prediction to that pile of dung and come talk to us in 5 years.

  48. Robert W
    Could these be the same people that advocate renewable resources? If your logic doesn’t make their heads explode, I’m sure explaining to them that fur is a renewable resource will do the trick.
    Here’s an oldie but a goodie showing the power of logic:
    Capt Kirk: But you have murdered.
    Scan the starship Excalibur,
    which you destroyed.
    Is there life aboard?
    M5:No life.
    Cap Kirk: Because you murdered it.
    What is the penalty for murder?
    M5:Death.
    Capt Kirk: And how will you pay for your acts of murder?
    M5:This …
    unit …
    must …
    die.
    M-5.
    Sir,

  49. canuck guy – what a very strange comment you’ve made about my outline of the natural processing of carbon dioxide by plants. The natural use of carbon dioxide is both within its storage and within its use in photosynthesis. So, to say that the tundra would ONLY operate as a carbon sink (i.e., storage of carbon dioxide) is incorrect.
    Don’t you know that plants require carbon dioxide? They ‘breathe’ it, so to speak, and expel oxygen. It’s a natural process of energy entrapment (into mass, i.e., the plant, the animal). The process that uses carbon dioxide to form mass is called photosynthesis. Check it out.
    So, if/when the tundra warms up and the deep soil unfreezes, releasing carbon dioxide, this will enable a massive influx of new life into the area. Plants – of all kinds will develop; this will enrich the soil; will bring insects into the area, which will further enrich the soil and plants. Small animals and birds that feed off both the plants and the insects will develop. Trees will be able to grow..and large mammals that feed off these leaves, birds and small mammals will move in.
    canuckguy – you need a basic course in biology. If/when the tundra warms up, the number of species and their diversity will explode to make use of the carbon dioxide.

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