Streamlining the “school-to-jail pipeline”, an Afrocentric school in Toronto receives approval. And not a moment too soon!
2001-2002 statistical data from the [Toronto District School Board] indicates the percentage of students from specific geograpical locations at risk of not graduating:
– 45% of Western African, Central and South American students at risk
– 39% East African
– 24 % of South Asian
– 23% Eastern European
– 16% Eastern Asian
Watch for the next step in this brave new social scheme – redefining academic standards to “normalize” Afro-achievement.
More here, here and here – “where race and failure are the only criteria for entrance”.
And here (from Jan. 26th);
My black special ed students were quite a challenge. I set and upheld high standards and my students all improved markedly, both behaviourally and academically. But, as I said, this took constant vigilance and intervention on my part, with no to negative pull from their usually single mothers. This group is now in another class, with a much less experienced teacher. Their behaviour has deteriorated rapidly. Very sad.
I also taught summer school in an inner city school with many black kids, many of the girls wearing hijab. The insolence, sense of entitlement, and plain bad manners of a good number of these kids was most disturbing, not to mention that, academically, the standard was pretty low. (One “hijabbed” young miss, about 10, refused to stand for “O Canada”: “It’s not my country.” That only happened on the first day as I made it altogether clear that sitting for the national anthem was NOT an option.)
It’s occurred to me that an all-black school—presumably for the most troubled and troublesome kids—would be hell (for the all black teachers, I suppose) to work in UNLESS it set a very different standard from most public schools: uniforms, high behavioural and academic expectations, upheld on a consistent basis. In other words, Tough Love. I don’t, however, see that happening. E.g., I saw a panel discussion on TVO about the Falconer Commission: Board Director, with her pasted on smile, slogan spouting head of the union, two almost inarticulate parents, one white, one black, a yappy, chip on the shoulder, black trustee, and John Snobelen. As no one was willing to actually diagnose the problem, the solutions they suggested were mere bromides. The problem for most of the problem kids? The accepted family structure of many kids by many fathers, with no dad around the home sets these kids up for failure from the start. Their mothers are often very young, uneducated, inarticulate, chip on the shoulder women who are not able to provide the security and role modelling necessary to socialize their kids. Any school for this type of kid would have to be built on a philosophy of high structure and non negotiable authority, consistently and seriously enforced. I believe any “solution” which overlooks this is not going to make much of a difference.
Racist!
There. I saved you the trouble.
Now that I think about it, what could be better than an all-black school? It’w worked out so well for the natives.
I have a solution, lets separate from Eastern Canada.
Let these A-holes east of Manitoba run their kids and their country into the ground, and we can look-out for our own.
I know that life isn’t perfect in the West; but, I also KNOW that we would have solved many if not ALL of the poverty issues(racial based and others) if we didn’t have the “deadbeats” in Ont. and Que. trying to drag us under water while they are drowning.
Hey Jon,
Doesn’t two of the three prarie provinces and BC regularly vote NDP?
If Alberta went alone (presuming that’s where you are) you may have a point. If you include Winnipeg, Regina and Leftcouver, not so much.
I’m just sick to my stomach reading about this alleged “new” idea. Are Canadian’s so obtuse that they cannot recognize the miserable failure of a “No-child-left-behind” school system?!! One look at the U.S. and the quagmire that is our public school system should send any reasonably intelligent human being back to the drawing board.
Unfortunately, the cows are already out of the barn. Shaking one’s fist at the crappy school system is pissing in the wind. The problem began a generation ago when people decided to stop parenting their children. Let’s not just focus on one segment of the population either. There are plenty of white kids out there failing just as miserably as any minority and for the same reasons.
As a new, older parent of my first child, I am just now becoming truly aware of how desperate the education situation is. As my son approaches his second birthday, he has already been on a waiting list for a private school for a year. He will be required to test at a required level for admittance AND my husband and I will have to be interviewed to insure that our educational plans match those of the school. It is the second best school in my metro area — the best being so by the smallest margin in test scores. The cost? Let’s just say it is twice my mortgage payment every month. I am being forced to these drastic measures because the public school system is little more than free child care. The academic testing has been “normalized” until the child of average intelligence is dumber when they come out of school than when they went in. What do you think the prognosis is for an exceptionally bright child in public school? My tax dollars pay for that pitiful excuse for education and my OTHER dollars must pay for a real education for my child.
Teachers — AAARRRGGHHHH! I have no idea what the requirements are for becoming a teacher in Canada. Here? A high school diploma and a pulse. No college degree, no certification, no nothing. The schools have been forced to this extreme because no one wants to pay someone a decent wage to educate our children. What genius can’t see that the people we aren’t educating today are the ones that are going to be leading our country in the very near future?!
I’m not even going to go down the leadership road here!! Not during the joke of a Presidential campaign we’re having now. I’ve been a Republican for years. Sort of what they used to call a “Goldwater Republican” — conservative financially and liberal socially but not too far in either direction. This election? I’m voting Democrat for the first time in more than 25 years. My choices aren’t much better but I’ll renounce my citizenship before I’ll be part of putting another Republican in the White House…
Good day!
Just think if they have schools for blacks, that would mean there would end up being schools for whites by default….aww the silver lining effect….feelin’ it.
And no, I am not a racist, the blacks are – they want segregation – I’m just lookin’ at the upside.
Bunch of illiterate rednecks discussing pedagogy.
…heh.
Lisa sounds like the Ontario people … it’s as if she says I’m not voting for John Tory who tried to deal with the existing problem of 53,000 kids in the worlds most immigrant populated City ( 50% of the population of Toronto were not born in Canada). Even though Tory tried to debate these issues , the public did not even want to talk about. They decided they’d rather vote for a known liar who is now complicit in allowing new Black focused schools … which is worse than what Tory proposed and took off the table.
Lisa …so you’ll go for Hilary .. .who’ll raise corporate taxes , kill business , kill jobs, shut down NAFTA .. it won’t do much for your education system who are unionized teachers that OWN the Democrats , but you’ll get your revenge.
Were you born in Ontario?
Hey CBC Fan,
You’re just the sort of snotty, condescending leftard I want to ask a question on this matter as you are clearly soooooo much better educated than ‘us heeer’ rednecks.
How black is black enough to get into an all black school? Does Obama qualify? He’s only half black. How about Tiger Woods? He’s part Asian. Is a little Asian Ok cause it isn’t white? Is Tiger all good but Obama too Eurocentric because of his white mother?
Perhaps you can channel Tommy Douglas and the other leftard eugenicists to ascertain the required racial purity to be admitted to this “separate but equal” school. Then you can get back to us what the “progressive” word is on the back of the bus.
If white supremacy is Racist, what is “Afrocentric”?
It would seem to me that the leftards are the racists. Those of us who object to segregation based on perceived race are the ones who believe in equality (which ought to include equal accountability.)
I’d love to see you square that logical circle but I bet you’re just a troll.
McWimpy… typical Liberal… lie, sit on the fence, do nothing… and wait for another 4 years for the Ontario sheeple to vote you back in.
—————-
TORONTO – Ontario’s Liberal government won’t prevent Canada’s largest school board from establishing a controversial new black-focused school – a position critics say flies in the face of the party’s much-touted opposition to funding religious schools, which helped propel it to victory in the last election.
[…]
But [McGuinty] wouldn’t say whether that means the province won’t bail out the cash-strapped school board at the end of the year, as it has in the past.
“The point I’m making today is that we’re not going to be providing any additional funding for this particular new policy,” McGuinty said.
Board officials, who are projecting a $41-million deficit, have said they will find the money for the school in their $2.3-billion budget.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2008/01/31/4804208-cp.html
OttRob,
McShifty is giving the people what they want. Clearly, the people want a PC-Addled, newspeaking moral coward and that is just what we got.
Ontario deserves what it gets (and I say that as someone who lives in southwestern Ontario) and further, John Tory deserves half the blame.
I await the day when some “native” thugs decide that Rosedale is Indian land and start squatting on the porch of some leftard corporate financer of the liberal party. I dream of the day…
Thinking of natives, isn’t the fact that native schools have been such a disaster a warning to the leftards that separate schools may not be the easy fix they think it will be? Aren’t leftards getting the fact that easy fixes don’t exist?
I guess if they could figure that out they’d be conservatives…
Re: “Call me a racist for saying so, but historicly speaking Africa has contributed so very little to human advancement in the way of science, medicine, technology etc.” posted by Bob C at January 31, 2008 12:01 PM
I’m not calling you a racist, and I see your point. I do wish to point out that, historically speaking, we all came from Africa. And as science, medicine, and technology go, I’m sure there are some contributions (Africa’s a big place), but it’s hard to contribute much in those fields when there is so much disease, poverty, famine, drought, etc. The contributions of people of African origins (referring to Black people) are a different matter, even in those fields.
On another front, take my favourite field, for example – music. The contributions Afrocentric musical styles (for lack of an appropriate term) have made to popular music in the last 100 years or so, and continue to make, are ubiquitous. I can’t even imagine music without it. Jazz, Blues, Motown, R&B, Funk, Soul, Pop, all kinds of Dance music (except maybe “Riverdance” Celtic crap – lord have mercy), even Country music – all have been largely shaped by the Black community, if not outright invented there.
That said, I feel Hip-Hop music has been largely a negative influence on youth in general, and black youth in particular. The artists and the industry types that produce “music” that glorifies and promotes violent behavior and pimp attitudes bear some responsibility for the current problems in the black community.
The problems in Toronto have been festering for decades, and centre largely on the Jamaican community. As a good friend, a Jamaican, says all the time – some Jamaicans are the nicest people you’ll ever meet, and some are people you’d never want to meet.
There – now you can call me a racist.
Warwick actually it has sort of already happened about a year ago. Some “poverty” thugs were bused in , some arrived at the Rosedale subway stop and they were all held off by about 10 cops in front of a Liberal bagman’s house. That bagman is now a Conservative (the conversion is not specifically related to that incident,
but … it all adds up until eventually the lights go on)
Wow — Afrocentric, Eurocentric — I’m confused. Time for an after dinner mint and a drink, it’s 5 O’Clock, somewhere!
“Hey Jon,
Doesn’t two of the three prarie provinces and BC regularly vote NDP?
If Alberta went alone (presuming that’s where you are) you may have a point. If you include Winnipeg, Regina and Leftcouver, not so much.”
This is not about partisan politics, this is about the decency of the people who live in the west.
I now live in Sask. but as you cleverly deducted I am a transplant from AB.
The aforementioned westerners who vote NDP vote for that party out of naivety; whereas, the voters east of Manitoba don’t vote for the “small c conservatives” values out of malice. The people of Saskatchewan and Manitoba will soon learn the hard lessons of the “real Canada” once the handouts from Alberta run dry, and the beggars start looking to them for handouts. As the population grows in Sask. the prov. NDP will die as the % of CUPE shrinks WRT the population. Manitoba will benefit from the new business climate and the attitude of Saskatchwinners, just as Saskatchewan did from AB. Success is contagious.
In the near future (within 10 yrs) the political landscape in the aforementioned provinces will look allot like AB. One party with different ideologies within the party (ie. Red Tories & Blue Tories). This is great because to have input in your parties direction you will have to be informed, and have to participate in the process to have a say. The rest of the loons will continue to vote for the other parties, but to no avail; they too will have to get informed if they want to participate in democracy, which will inevitably result in a move to whichever “small c conservative” party they have in their area.
The pot-heads in B.C. will snooze through the whole thing.
McGuinty is talking out of both sides of his mouth; he’s saying that he’s against these ‘black-focused schools’; and that the province ‘won’t fund them’ but he won’t stop them or interfere.
He’s saying that because he won the election on his opposition to provincial funding of Faith-Based schools and his insistence on ‘no segregation of children’ into identity-schools.
But, it’s happening anyway. His statement that the province won’t fund this new school is empty; the province will hand over money to Toronto, not earmarked for any particular school, and the Toronto Board will use that money for this segregated school.
Then, other ‘distinct identity’ groups will have right to claim discrimination if they don’t obtain their own ‘identity’ separate schools.
It’s the Liberal Way. Balkanize people into separate enclaves, set them up against each other in competition for govt funds – and count on each bloc to vote for you.
McGuinty has his ass in a sling on this one.
If he decides to fund them minimally, that means these Black students will not be having all the programs afforded the so-called public schools, the real public and the Roman Catholic religious schools.
This could marginalize the Black kids further, leaving them with less options.
It’s difficult to predict what the outcome of this will be down the road. This could be a trial/experiment project and funded fully to see what it produces. One thing for sure, what’s going on in Toronto with Black youth is proof the present situation is not working.
Anything that might lead to ending shoot ’em ups in the streets of Toronto would be worth a try.
Interesting post, Jon. I’m grateful I’ve had the opportunity to live in a variety of places in this county, including the West. I’ve met a lot of different people in a lot of different places. As a result, i never developed your attitude of backward, bigoted ignorance regarding my fellow Canadians. Thanks for the reminder.
Look at the bright side. By putting all the trouble makers err under achievers in their own school maybe the other students will have a chance to learn something.
“That said, I feel Hip-Hop music has been largely a negative influence on youth in general, and black youth in particular. The artists and the industry types that produce “music” that glorifies and promotes violent behavior and pimp attitudes bear some responsibility for the current problems in the black community.”
Art imitates life, not the other way around. The campaign to blame rap for everything is B.S.
The reason so many blacks and others listen to rap is because it speaks to us. When baby-mommas stop abusing their station, when police stop abusing their station, when women stop fawning over drug dealers(bad boys)and their toys, and when doing crime isn’t more profitable (short term) that sitting in class or flipping burgers; then Hip Hop will clean-up its message because it will be REAL.
People like Chuck ‘D’, and KRS ONE opened my eyes as a youth to reality from their perspective and taught me to examine issues from multiple perspectives. Issue by issue I generally disagree with Chuck ‘D’; but his music and lyrics inspired me to think critically.
People who B**tch about rap fall into two categories:
1)(looks like a duck, it’s an f’n duck) Women’s groups and their sympathizers who wish to silence men from telling their side of story WRT the relationship between men and women today.
2)(Stephan Coberts: I didn’t read it but I have an opinion) A-holes who have NEVER actually listened to a rap album and tried to absorb the experiences of these artists.
To group 1), we will never stop telling the truth about the abuse and inequity being propagated towards men. Look in the mirror and start conducting yourselves as decent human-beings, and you will be treated as such.
To group 2) Listening to you about music is like the blind leading the blind. I’ve heard Lennon ect… “give love a chance” What a bunch of B.S.; you should be happy that Generation X, Y, 2K are not stupid enough to believe that nonsense.
“Hopefully with better education they will come to know that they are continuously being sold a bill of goods. Now if only some of their so-called leaders, Jesse and Al, could come to their senses…… Oh well, I guess that is asking too much. ”
Just like the DEM’s and all other victoms advocates, Jesse and Al benifit from the conditions blacks live in. It keeps them in buisness.
To those of you who are using phrases like “all-black school,” “blacks only school,” segregation, apartheid, etc.: if you can’t get even the basic terms right, then how can one take anything you have to say seriously?
This school is experimental because of its proposed curriculum. Staffing is not limited to black teachers (so “all-black” is incorrect), enrollment is not limited to blacks kids (so “blacks only” is incorrect), and no child will be forced to attend (so “segregation” and “apartheid” are incorrect). The curriculum will include the standard Ontario-wide 3Rs, with modifications where appropriate to include references to pan-African and black culture.
Will it work? Who really knows. Given the dismal prospects of the status quo, I say it’s worth at least a pilot. Parents who want to send their children there can, and those who don’t, needn’t. We can assess whether it has merit in a few years.
I understand Toronto also has Jewish elementary schools whose curriculum blends general studies with Judaic studies. Is this so fundamentally different?
Having permanently left Ontario a few months ago, I have been following this debate with interest. Glad I’m not there any longer.
What comes after these schools? All black medical and engineering schools to ensure continuation of this philosophy? Want to have one of these grads operate on you? Want to fly in a plane or cross a bridge that they designed?
Not to worry – it won’t happen. The ghetto will just be more better edumacated.
Looks like Toronto school board is some kind of assembly of racists masquerading as feel good apparatchiks. Though this is what school boards do, they come up with schemes, they have to spend the money and ask for more, never mind their heads are up their collective socialist asses where they can’t see, can’t hear although they do feel.
dean spencer-fox, I have lived all my life in Toronto but travelled extensively throughout Canada and most of the world. Jon is right and this black school just reaffirms that. The liberal mind-set is destroying our way of life. Whenever lefties are faced with making tough decisions like telling the black community it is your culture of baby-mamas that lead to your children’s failure in school they fold like a deck of cards.
The dumbing down of our schools with 85% as the graduation goal, no matter how poorly the student does in their scholastic endeavours is just the lastest in a long line of tearing our schools apart as Lookout explains so well. The Liberal elitist attitude of no responsiblity affects everything from crime to healthcare. Our city is falling apart with lefties like Miller blaming everyone but himself for its economic disaster.
Conservatives question and think about their mandate and politicians must earn their vote, Liberals blindly vote for the Liberal/NDP party no matter their track record or bankrupt/non-existent policies.
Unless this changes westerners have every right to criticize the eastern provinces.
Black academic failure is a money maker for the education industry and the Al Sharpton racist pimps of the world with all of the remedial funding for the failure, followed by never ending demands for even more remedial funding flowing into the mess. It’s good for liberals and the teacher’s unions that feed off of them. That blacks haven’t figured it out is their pathology. African culture has been a loser by every metric. Indulging in all of the things that have made African culture so pathetic – feckless unfaithful macho males, rampant promiscuity, tribalism, violence, a lack of western reason and orderliness – which we are rewarding in public schools is no help to blacks. The hip hop/rap/gangsta culture is an extension of African pathology. Until black sheeple figure it out, liberals will be there to assist them in failure.
No. I’m deleting your comments because I’m a fascist.
It’s one of the perks.
RPB writes, “I understand Toronto also has Jewish elementary schools whose curriculum blends general studies with Judaic studies. Is this so fundamentally different?”
Well, yes, RBP, it is fundamentally different. The schools you’re talking about are PRIVATE. In case you don’t know what that means, it’s this: parents apply for their children to attend the school, on private property, and the parents pay tuition. (You also said to those of us who oppose the board’s new plan, “[I]f you can’t get even the basic terms right, then how can one take anything you have to say seriously?” Ditto, I guess.)
Re “black schools”: if they’re going to be as open ended as you say–probably, as the TDSB tries to be all things to all people (only some people are more equal than others)–how will they be different from the mixed bag schools the TDSB already has? And, if they aren’t, what are we talking about anyway?
Right on, lookout!
RBP – the Jewish elementary schools to which you refer are private. The taxpayer doesn’t fund them; parents do, by paying tuition. This proposed ‘black school’ isn’t private; it’s funded by the taxpayer.
Now, the issue of the public funding of so-called ‘Faith Based Schools’ (ie, Jewish, Muslim etc) was firmly opposed by McGuinty in the October Ontario election. NO!, he thundered. NO Funding for private schools! All children should attend the public schools which are integrated.
So, yet another lie. Of course, McGuinty says that province won’t fund this proposed black school, but that’s nonsense. The Ontario funds don’t go to specific schools; they go to the Board, and the Board allots the money.
As for your comment that ‘it’s open to all’, that’s empty. What non-black parent, even the most hardened socialist leftist, is going to drive their child to that school, when the child can go to the local, far more diverse, school.
And I suggest you read lookout’s various posts, based on long experience in that same school system, that the problem isn’t the Curriculum. Adding courses on ‘African culture’ isn’t going to entice these kids to stay in school. The majority have NO connection, and never did, to Africa. Just because their skin is black, you think they should focus on Africa? Why?
The real reason for the high dropouts is, as lookout pointed out, a culture of, not African, but a culture of low expectations from both parents and teachers, a culture of socialist-induced victimology and a sense of entitlement, and a teaching environment of cultural relativism and political correctness that refuses standards of behaviour and standards of knowledge. Nothing to do with ‘Africa’.
And the Detroitification (TM) of Toronto continues.
I mean, I can’t blame the TDSB for this, as the board has responsibility for the kids when they get there. They can’t go about socially engineering these kids.
That said, all these folks who got up and argued for this at the meeting, especially the woman who confronted Trustee Payne, one thing went through my mind. If you bothered to discipline your kids with this much effort, and not blame everybody else for your and your kids’ problems, would we be having this debate? If you stopped acting and thinking like you were second class citizens, and stopped instilling in your children this us against the world philosophy, would we be having this debate?
All the while, I don’t know if actually think this, or if they’re acting all indignant, because they know they can get away with it, and anyone who dares to disagree with them is immediately labeled a racist.
Seriously, with some rather unfortunate exceptions, racism is a self-inflicted wound. And quite frankly, I am sick and tired of being born with the unfortunate affliction of being a white male.
This is a dark, dark day to be a Torontonian, and this is a statement I find myself making with increasing regularity.
———————–
In addition to this, as fashionable as it can be to blame McGuinty for not doing anything, really, what can he do? He can’t fund it outside of the formula that exists, so any statement he makes on this is irrelevant.
The solution is to really just take all parents involved in this, and just lock them in a room somewhere so we don’t have to be subjected to this sheer stupidity. Funny thing is, their kids would probably do better with this situation.
“Well, yes, RBP, it is fundamentally different. The schools you’re talking about are PRIVATE.”
Oh, so that’s what everyone here is up in arms about — the perceived misappropriation of public funds? I don’t think so, lookout. The comments here seem to be revolving around (erroneous) claims that this school is tantamount to segregation and apartheid. Or are you saying they, and you, would be OK with what you call “all-black” schools as long as they were privately funded?
And while we’re on the subject, can you explain your use of the term “all-black”? Were you genuinely mistaken, or were you intentionally trying to mislead?
“if they’re going to be as open ended as you say–probably, as the TDSB tries to be all things to all people (only some people are more equal than others)–how will they be different from the mixed bag schools the TDSB already has?”
As should be obvious to anyone who’s actually read the TDSB plan, the curriculum.
RBP says: “…if you can’t get even the basic terms right, then how can one take anything you have to say seriously?”
I think we all pretty much understand what’s being undertaken here. If I suggested we should have a Scottish school where the curriculum has modifications where appropriate to include references to Scottish culture would that be a sensible expenditure of public money?
While we’re on the subject, what is “black culture”? I know there’s Caribbean culture (mostly British), there’s a variety of cultures from Africa (mostly French or Dutch), but this “black” culture thing confuses me. Does it have something to do with holding your pistol sideways instead of the proper way when you pop a cap into your rival drug dealer? Or is it more about being able to tell jazz from Motown? In any case, is teaching it going to make a dent in the friggin’ 40% dropout rate?
RBP then says: “Will it work? Who really knows.”
You know RBP. You hope you are wrong, but deep inside you can feeeeel the answer.
And the answer is no, it will do nothing to improve the lives of the students who go there. No, it will not be safer than any other Jane/Finch area school. No, it will not reduce the dropout rate.
Finally, RBP says: “I understand Toronto also has Jewish elementary schools whose curriculum blends general studies with Judaic studies. Is this so fundamentally different?”
Yes it is. Because A)those schools are -private- schools, but more importantly B)the kids in those schools don’t have a 40+% drop out rate. They go on to be doctors and lawyers and etc. They don’t form gangs to sell drugs. They don’t shoot at each other from moving cars in broad daylight on Younge Street. Nor do the Sikh kids, the Chinese kids, the White kids, the name-your-variety.
So because I would like the black kids to become doctors like the Jewish kids, I would prefer that my tax money be spent on something that would actually work instead of pissed away on a blacks-only school that is not only doomed, but the very idea of it is racist and destructive to Canadian society.
You, my dear RBP, are stuck on stupid. Please smack yourself in the head three times and start using your BRAIN.
Re: “Art imitates life, not the other way around. The campaign to blame rap for everything is B.S. The reason so many blacks and others listen to rap is because it speaks to us. When baby-mommas stop abusing their station… yada, yada …” [emphasis mine]
Bullshit, Jon. There’s lots of great hip-hop/rap music being made, and I’m certainly not “blaming it for everything”. I listen to lots of it. But even people like Russell Simmons understand you can go too far. There’s lots of purely sensationalist garbage that glorifies gun violence (normalizing thug culture) and the pimp lifestyle, and is clearly targeted at immature middle class white boy wanna-be’s (like you?).
Have you ever known any pimps? I have. Some of them are nice guys too. Most are violent sexist asshole sociopathic predatory drug-dealing egomaniac pigs too stupid to understand their lifestyle is going to get them, and others, jailed at best, or killed. Not that they care about anyone other than themselves. Or have ever taken the time to think it through.
I’m not for censorship. But as far as Hip-Hop goes, how often do you hear of, for example, Country music stars shooting each other?
Go back and read what you wrote about “baby-momma’s” WTF? I hope you don’t expect anyone to take you seriously. Is that how you refer to your mother? And don’t get me stated on wearing pants 10 sizes too big hanging down below your ass. Yeah, I know, it’s influenced by jail culture, ’cause jail is so cool. Looks incredibly stupid, but maybe that’s just my impression.
RPB asks me, “Or are you saying they, and you, would be OK with what you call ‘all-black’ schools as long as they were privately funded?”
In a word, my answer is an unreserved yes.
And, RPB, if you were able to properly process my plain words, you could have answered that question for yourself.
But you have to be 16 before you can sign up for “Drive-By Ed”
“RBP – the Jewish elementary schools to which you refer are private. The taxpayer doesn’t fund them; parents do, by paying tuition. This proposed ‘black school’ isn’t private; it’s funded by the taxpayer.”
The title of this post is “Apartheid High.” The term “segregation” has been tossed around quite liberally in the comments. Are you suggesting that you support apartheid and segregation of blacks as long as it’s privately funded?
“So, yet another lie.”
McGuinty has stated that no additional funding for this Africentric school is forthcoming. Key word being “additional.” The TDSB has full authority to use its existing budget any way it sees fit.
Also, legally, Toronto’s school trustees have the authority to create whatever schools they’d like. There are already over several dozen publicly funded alternative schools in the city. To ban the TDSB from creating one more would require provincial legislative amendment.
So, McGuinty hasn’t been caught in a lie. He says he doesn’t like the idea, won’t dedicate new money for it, but also won’t overstep any existing jurisdictional boundaries to stop it.
“As for your comment that ‘it’s open to all’, that’s empty. What non-black parent, even the most hardened socialist leftist, is going to drive their child to that school, when the child can go to the local, far more diverse, school.”
Actually, what’s empty is your rhetorical argument. Can you state with any certainty that no non-black parent would consider sending their child to this school?
“And I suggest you read lookout’s various posts, based on long experience in that same school system, that the problem isn’t the Curriculum.”
You say that as though lookout is some sort of authority on the matter, rather than just one lone voice out of thousands of teachers in the province. Guess what? I’ve been teaching in Toronto elementary and high schools for over 20 years now, the last 19 of which have been in “priority neighbourhoods.” Does that mean you’ll now defer to my long experience?
“Adding courses on ‘African culture’ isn’t going to entice these kids to stay in school.”
According to lookout’s personal opinion? Your own personal opinion? Empirical research on pedagogical best practises?
“The majority have NO connection, and never did, to Africa. Just because their skin is black, you think they should focus on Africa? Why?”
You’ve either never heard of, or else put no stock in, the African diaspora. In any case, it’s not that I think they they should focus on Africa, it’s that some in the black community think they should.
“In a word, my answer is an unreserved yes.”
So you unreservedly support “apartheid” and “segregation” as long as you don’t have to pay for it? How principled of you.
And still no answer on the use of “all-black”?
RPB, you need to grow up and smarten up. Please come back when you have the ability to actually argue your case. At the moment, you get a Level 1 on that score.
Good night.
“I would prefer that my tax money be spent on something that would actually work instead of pissed away on a blacks-only school that is not only doomed, but the very idea of it is racist and destructive to Canadian society.”
First, the fact that you call it a “blacks-only” school serves only to demonstrate your fundamental misunderstanding of the TDSB plan. Second, if you’re so convinced that it’s doomed, what would you do with the $800,000+ instead? My guess is, you have no viable innovative ideas to offer, and in fact wouldn’t support any proposal that dedicates resources specifically to black students. It’s clear enough that their well-being is the furthest thing from your mind.
I would love to be proven wrong, but somehow I doubt I will.
“At the moment, you get a Level 1 on that score.”
This isn’t the first time that you’ve pulled out the “I’m a teacher and I’m giving you a failing grade” trick to weasel out of a discussion on SDA. Not only is it incredibly cheesy, it’s also obviously a dodge.
So one last time, my dear lookout: “all-black”?
I’m a long-time SDA reader who agrees with just about every post on this site. I’ve never had any reason to comment until now.
Lookout: I’m with you on everything you have to say about this idiotic Toronto school proposal and the sorry state of our young people, but with all due respect, please drop the “You get a Level 1” shtick. It really is lame.
Yours,
Old-timer
RPB – what is it you don’t understand about private schools versus private? Private schools can be all Catholic, all Jewish, all kids that enjoy art, whatever they want, it’s private, the public isn’t being asked to pick up the tab or advance their exclusive mandate. Exclusive mandate is the key word. End of story.
They want to create an all black school, but, even with the transparently disingenuous qualifier, anyone can go there, is sort of an oxymoron, isn’t it. How ridiculously bogus can you get, like any whites would accept the offer. You really think the Canadian gov’t should accept a racial criteria as terms for a public school? Think whites should request the same?
“Private schools can be all Catholic, all Jewish, all kids that enjoy art, whatever they want, it’s private, the public isn’t being asked to pick up the tab or advance their exclusive mandate. Exclusive mandate is the key word. End of story.”
I realize that Toronto’s Hebrew schools are private. Their funding status was/is, for my purposes, beside the point. What’s relevant is the fact that students often respond positively to a curriculum tailored to their cultural heritage/experiences, as the Hebrew school’s attest. Black-focused schools in the US have also produced some positive results. So, there may be merit to an Africentric school. Or maybe there isn’t. But it’s an empirical question that can be answered only by piloting it, not by making unfounded and presumptuous claims.
“They want to create an all black school, but, even with the transparently disingenuous qualifier, anyone can go there, is sort of an oxymoron, isn’t it.”
That’s not even a sentence, but I think I get the gist of it.
“How ridiculously bogus can you get, like any whites would accept the offer.”
How can you be so sure of that?
“You really think the Canadian gov’t should accept a racial criteria as terms for a public school?”
If you’re referring to student enrolment, race isn’t a criterion for entry into this school, so your argument is completely without merit.
To everyone: I still haven’t heard a single convincing argument for why this experimental school doesn’t at least merit a pilot test to determine if it might help struggling black students. I’m talking about a logical, informed, evidence-based argument demonstrating why it can’t possibly work. Any takers?
Oh, and “I don’t want my tax dollars going towards it” doesn’t cut it. I don’t like my tax dollars going towards a whole bunch of things, but annoyance alone means nothing without reason. Ditto for “Black culture is inherently lazy and co-dependent/Their dads are deadbeats/They glorify gangs and guns”, which is nothing but a rehashing of tired generalizations and stereotypes that offer no way forward.
One thing that i have not heard commented on, was the black trustee that stated black students need to learn from an afro-centric point of view..that the Greek Pythagorous stole his theorem from the ancient black cultures in Egypt, and exported them..
Good grief! .. .what else will these children learn that has any basis in reality?
I can think of many reasons why this won’t work, but i think that one issue has to addressed..life is not afro-centric ten steps from the classroom.
You put these kids into an African school setting and they would fail.All of the reasons that are given as non starters for why we shouldn’t have black schools (drop outs, gang culture, absentee fathers etc..) are in and of themselves at the very core of why they won’t work.
You cannot remove these items from the equation , it is part and parcel of why so many kids fail at school and life.
Afro-centric schools are setting these kids up for a fall, because the real world won’t give them a free pass because of the colour of their skin…
From today’s National Post, page A11:
School trustee explains why she voted ‘no’
Concept of ‘black’school ‘divisive’
STEPHNIE PAYNE National Post
Commentary
As an African-Canadian, and a trustee on the Toronto District School Board, I voted against the Afrocentric (blackfocus) school. Here’s why.
First and foremost, I support a curricula based on everyone’s history. I am truly supportive of an inclusive mandated curriculum where all students are reflected. Not a separate school for ‘‘blacks’’ only.
My children are AfricanCanadians born and educated in Canada — in Toronto schools — and are exemplary, successful, productive members of a democratic society, and they did not attend a ‘‘black’’ school. My husband and I ensured that our children were fully engaged, loved, well-rounded and supported, both in the home and in school.
Today’s black parents, whether due to poverty, socioeconomic factors or marginalization, need to be fully engaged in the daily lives of their children.
Black mothers should examine their lifestyles with regard to issues of drugs, gangs, early pregnancy and multiple pregnancies and absent fathers, and how these factors affect their lives and that of their children to fully succeed.
Yes, our educational system needs to change drastically, and teachers should reflect the student body and the community.
However, I do not believe that an all-‘‘black’’ school will serve our communities well. It is divisive and the ‘‘ black’’ community is not a homogenous group in this province or in this country.
Martin Luther King Jr. wanted all children to succeed based on their character, not by the colour of their skin.
Stephanie Payne is the Trustee for Ward 4, Toronto District School Board
“All of the reasons that are given as non starters for why we shouldn’t have black schools (drop outs, gang culture, absentee fathers etc..) are in and of themselves at the very core of why they won’t work.”
I’m not saying they’re non-starters that should be left out of the equation. I’m saying that the argument can’t simply end with them. We know that schools are an important institution in our society and a key socialization influence on children and youth. I’ve yet to hear anyone demonstrate that an Africentric school can’t mitigate, at least for some students, the adverse influences in their lives (e.g., absentee fathers, gangs, etc.).
You’re trying to answer the question of “Why won’t Africentric schools work?” with “Because the kids’ lives are all messed up already.” But what I’m asking is, “Isn’t it possible that this type of school might help to counterbalance those negative forces? If not, why not?”
“Bullshit, Jon. There’s lots of great hip-hop/rap music being made, and I’m certainly not “blaming it for everything”. I listen to lots of it. But even people like Russell Simmons understand you can go too far. There’s lots of purely sensationalist garbage that glorifies gun violence (normalizing thug culture) and the pimp lifestyle, and is clearly targeted at immature middle class white boy wanna-be’s (like you?).”
It is you who doesn’t know what he is talking about. I challenge you to name any albums from any artists that are “purely sensational” with intellectual honesty based on your listening expirience. You now resort to the typical race card by calling me a “wigger” for lack of a better term. In my expirience over the last 15-20 yrs is that it isn’t blacks who object to “wiggers” but it is actually honkies like you.
So Jimbo correct me where I’m wrong, explain to me what it is really like to have a “baby-momma” using you kid as a bargining chip, you know the “ol’ keep a N**%a baby”. FYI you don’t know anything about me, and you clearly don’t understand the concept of sisters & B##ches. They are not the same thing; but they both exist.
“There’s lots of purely sensationalist garbage that glorifies gun violence (normalizing thug culture) and the pimp lifestyle, and is clearly targeted at immature middle class white boy wanna-be’s (like you?).””
Your chasing your tail with this argument. If this so called “garbage” is directed toward wiggers like me then your way off topic. I was under the impression we were discussing black issues and the negative effect hip hop has on black culture. I’m not aware of any problems hip hop is causing in the white community, if the “garbage” is for whites then it is no differnt than reading a S.King novel. Fiction.
According to you the “good” hip hop(back-pack rappers) like Talib Quali, or Mos Def is only for blacks so their shouldn’t be a problem right? These are positive messages so all should be great, and since the “garbage”( I suppose your refering to 50cent or Nelly) is geared toward whites and concidering whites make up 60%+ of the population we should see 60%+ whites in the jail population on Canada and the US.
What about Native people, what kind of Hip hop do they listen to? I’m sure you can make an argument for rap causing grief for these people too.
“Country music stars shooting each other?”
Let me get this straight Jimbo, Rappers are shooting Rappers because they are listening to rap.
Anyway, I think I may have misrepresented myself in the previous post. I’m not saying that men have no responsibility WRT the aforementioned issues, I’m simply saying that hip hop sheds light on these issues from another perspective. Many rappers (gangster included ie. Tu Pac) have have done the songs that you so loath, and then on the next song spoke with love about their mothers, their faith, their baby-mommas, their country, their community ect…
I just don’t think I should have to state these facts every time the anti-hip hop discussion comes up. These talking points are represented consistently and do not require me to echo them.