“Stephen Harper said most Liberal leadership candidates were ‘anti-Israel.’ What do you think of this?”
Vote on the main page at CTV.ca.
As one commentor remarked a few days ago, let’s see another online media poll go “horribly horribly wrong”!
Related: “The wife of prominent Liberal MP Irwin Cotler has quit the party in a fury over leadership front-runner Michael Ignatieff’s assertion that Israel committed war crimes.
(link fixed)
Steve Janke has more.
UPDATE – it’s getting lonely on the Ignatieff campaign bus.
Friday, October 13, 2006
My Resignation
As President of the Thornhill Young Liberals and as a delegate from the riding of Thornhill, I stand by Susan Kadis MP in her decision to resign as GTA Co-Chair of the Michael Ignatieff Campaign. I do believe Michael to be a strong leader but unfortunately at this time, I cannot reconcile his recent statements characterizing Israel’s action in response to the kidnapping of its soldiers as a “war crime”. As a matter of conscience, I, like Susan, am resigning as Director of Strategy and Operations for Ontario.
posted by Michelle Oliel @ 12:46 PM
h/t Jeff Drebit, in the comments.
Oct.14 morning update
CTV poll: Fair: 5254 for 65% Unfair 2859 35%
Man, this is funny to watch CTV poll hit them in the face. The Lib’s are have a hard time when a spade is called a spade!
Bob says “who gives a crap about Israel?”
Bob, the Liberal Party is about to find out.
I’ve never understood why Jewish people have Liberal signs on their lawn during an election. I’ve asked some of my Jewish neighbors this and I don’t think they know either. Maybe as the song in Fiddler on the Roof goes, it’s … “Tradition”.
Anyway, the “tradition” is over for many. It is now obvious to many in the USA and now Canada that conservatives are more likely to spend their political capital on the concept of freedom against the forces of fascism than liberals are.
Why do conservatives spend this poltical captial? The short answer is that throughout history Jews have been the canary in the coal mine. If we don’t defend Jewish people from the fascists, then when will the fascists come for me?
It must be near winter. I can hear the nuts falling to the ground in abundance.
Read the Book, R.C. Read the Book.
Ahh, bob’s back. On another thread, he refused to substantiate his many opinions, provided us with many examples of illogical tactics, accused me of graft..and disappeared. Now, he’s back, with more of the same.
bob- what we are discussing on this thread is the political tactics of Ignatieff in Quebec, Harper’s response, Ignatieff’s further response and so on. Let’s get into some facts.
Israel is not an ‘Asian nation’; it is geographically located in the Middle East.
The fact that it is tiny is irrelevant.
No, it is not dependent on Canadian foreign aid.
No, it is not a third world country ‘dependent on Canadian aid’. It’s a high technology, highly industrialized modern economy. Oh, and it’s a democracy as well.
No, bob, your statement that it isn’t part of western civilization is quite wrong. It is. Again, it’s a modern industrial economy, with high technology, extremely high levels of research in science and technology, grounded in the ‘western’ infrastructure of logic, reason and science.
You state that it is located ‘halfway around the world’. Doesn’t such an opinion depend on where you start? They probably say that Canada is ‘located halfway around the world. So, what’s your point? Ahh, you are only interested in what’s in front of your nose. But, the problem with such a short view is that our world, biologically, economically, informationally, is connected.
What goes on in one country, with regard to weather, pollution, rainfall, animals, vegetation, doesn’t stay there; it affects other parts of the globe.
Economically we are all networked.
Informationally we are all networked. Take a look at any article in Science and you’ll see that not only the authors are international collaborators but their research is linked to work done everywhere else.
That’s why ‘what goes on elsewhere’ matters. Because we are networked.
Oh – and because of another more basic reason, which you ignore. Profoundly ignore.
We are all the same; we are all humans. So, what goes on elsewhere to some other human beings must affect us. Did you ever think of that?
To live only within the Cave, to focus only on local issues within that Cave – that’s not enough, because it ignores that network. And it ignores that deeper commonality that we share – which you reject.
Iggy Who? Now…. what about Denis Coderre, Hezbollah supporter, Iggy’s co-chair? …-
My Resignation
As President of the Thornhill Young Liberals and as a delegate from the riding of Thornhill, I stand by Susan Kadis MP in her decision to resign as GTA Co-Chair of the Michael Ignatieff Campaign.
I do believe Michael to be a strong leader but unfortunately at this time, I cannot reconcile his recent statements characterizing Israel’s action in response to the kidnapping of its soldiers as a “war crime”. As a matter of conscience, I, like Susan, am resigning as Director of Strategy and Operations for Ontario.
http://michelleoliel.blogspot.com/2006/10/my-resignation.htm
Clearly the liberal party and liberals in general have displayed a clear bias in towards Israel.
Time and time again, we heard the terms like Israeli war crimes, disproportionate response, Lebanese victims, I could go on and no mention of what Hezbollah was doing or the victims in Israel.
The statements of the Prime Minister have been consistent throughout, there are victims on both sides, Hezbollah is the instigator, and Israel has the right to defend itself. His comments to the Liberal candidates are quite legitimate given this.
It’s ridiculous for Liberal to continuously make statements that are negative towards Israel and then turn around and complain when they’re are called on it.
That being said, I don’t believe for a minute that all the Liberal leadership candidates are ‘Anti-Israeli’, but as a party, the Liberals they have chosen to take a stance that it the polar opposite of the government in an effort to garner votes and now they are stuck in that position.
Here is/are the #1, #2 Comments at the blog shown below. Liberal$, er Librano$$$$$$$$$
What a sad, pathetic performance; anti-semitism for all to see. …-
At 1:05 PM, mezba said…
Are you resigning from the Liberal party, the Ignatieff campaign or from this position only?
Doesn’t it seem a bit knee-jerk over-reaction to a comment made by a man who is not leader yet (and likely not be)?
If you are leaving from the Liberal party, are you willing to abandon ALL progressive values such as women’s suffrage, minority rights, language rights, environment, social welfare issues, healthcare JUST for a single issue?
At 2:28 PM, Ottawa Liberal said…
I can’t believe this. You Jews are unreal. Why can’t we ever have a civil discussion about Israel’s conduct without your tribe throwing a hissy fit. Grow up and stop acting like the world owes you everything. I’m not a big fan of “Iggy” but enough is enough. If Jews want to be opportunistic and abandon the Liberal Party while we’re down, then so be it, leave. Maybe then Canadian liberals could concentrate on how to make Canada a better country vis-vis the environment and social justice, for example, rather than focusing on some foreign country in the middle of the desert. I’m so angry right now…..After everything the Liberal Party has done for Jews over the years, their conduct over the past few months has really left a sour taste in my mouth. The Lobby will probably come after me and destroy my professional career after this rant, but I really needed to get this off my chest…. Back to work.
-Dev
http://michelleoliel.blogspot.com/2006/10/my-resignation.html
“Isreal is half way around the world” .. “who cares”
That’s the tip off. Liberals have “positioned” Canada like a kept mistress. We’ve totally relied on the USA for our trade and for our defense. Quebec is even more sheltered from the reality of geopolitics. If it’s not a soft-woody problem next door, it’s too remote to warrant discussion by the kept mistress.
The Liberal leadership is tripping-up because they are in now in opposition and they cannot control the agenda. They simply talk about local subjects relevant to a Mayor:
offering “city” traffic and subway solutions,
offering day care and
offering tuition and Health Care solutions.
Liberals have encroached on provincial and municipal challenges because they are incompetent on geopolitics. Liberals are not engaged with the world. The USA keeps them safe. Therefore Liberals stumble when the talk about the more worldly matters.
Chrétien and Martin, the mistresses, were more suited to be Mayor of Come by Chance than PM.
Ditto Rae the next Liberal opposition leader, who failed as a provincial Premier.
Just read another Iggy insider quit in Ontairio – Michelle Oliel. There is a tremendous amount of support for her on her own blog. Check it out.
Kate, you rock!
I strongly object to the Liberal Party self-defining itself as ‘progressive’.
Its ideology of a centralist gov’t, state-run enterprises in health and education and business, are all 19th c regressive. Its self-definition of itself as ‘the only party for Canada’, its focus on power, have led it to tactics like media manipulation, constant propaganda (remember their ads?) and – corruption, corruption. That’s not progressive.
The writer’s list of current issues, eg’womens’ suffrage’ is wierd. None are the prerogative of the Liberals and none are current.
The point was that Ignatieff presented himself to a Quebec audience as an expert in international law and human rights, and therefore, his conclusion that Israel had committed ‘war crimes’ could be accepted as legally valid.
Now, he is saying that he is not The Expert. But that’s not how he presented his opinion the first time. And ‘war crime’ is a very specific legal term. It’s not meant to be used as a metaphor for ‘bilateral nasty stuff’.
But the MSM are springing to the defense of the Liberals; I saw a 30 second Jane Taber (before I switched it off) interviewing a Muslim who affirmed that Israel was guilty of Many War Crimes. Interviewing all the Liberal candidates.
Ignatieff will apparently be on TVO’s The Agenda tonight at 8.
Not the results CTV would have told us “Canadians want.” 65/35 with nearly 10,000 in.
Maybe Harper is going to be PM for a long long time.
Of course 1 hour before the poll closes we could watch it go to 50/50 in 30 minutes.
See this before anyone?
I think the poll trolls are upto at CTV funny since my last post No is down to 53% and they are not showing the number of votes anymore. I am so glad that these guys (media polls )are being watched!!!
Okay I am not sure what happened It is probably my mistake so I am going to fix it be for I get in trouble. Went back to the poll (same tab???) and the results were 64% 36% and the total votes were there as well. Weird, (It is Friday the 13th Ha!) Happy weekend everyone
Bob Rae said:
“I just think it’s absolutely appalling to lie and smear in this way.”
Oh really Bob Rae, well, I was just thinking the same of you and the NDP’s implosion of Ontario’s economy.
Never have so few allowed so many to live for decades without employment oportunities.
Although I continue to prefer Stefane Dion as the next Liberal leader, and hopefully our next PM, yet clearly Mr. Ignatief has done the country a real service by breaking open a debate that has to be had. We cannot go on forever politically cowering under the imaginary lash of a tiny, tin pot imperialist state determined to bash a dependent population into submission.
And it is such a small state, Israel, and so hopelessly racist. Surely we have all had enough of its property grabs these almost amoeba like surges of expansion. Surely Cananadians can avoid being Jew baiters without putting up with the depradations of this middle east trouble maker state.
And look what a political harvest we have already from a few apparently conscience based words from Ignatieff. There is Harper, revealing in a really ugly light how he remains a small man , and Kennedy whose reach is no higher than a low level political insider.And just look at Rae, puffing away about his family, as if anyone gave a hoot. And , oh yes, look at Dion, the most unruffled and PMish of the lot. Dead center of the right thing to say.
I look forward to the next gaffe from our temporary custodian of the office of PM, I mean this is really great theatre.
“Stephen Harper said most Liberal leadership candidates were ‘anti-Israel.’ What do you think of this?”
—Well, as a matter of fact, I have just done a very hard-hitting post, responding directly to Iggy’s protestations against our Prime Minister.
This, IMHO, is some of my best work to date. I just got into it and lo and behold, I tear that so-called “intellectual” to shreds. My mojo is back, baby! I’m kicking Liebrano ass again!
Come check it out. It’s a powerful blow I deliver to the Liberal Party of Canada as well as to Iggy Piggy himself. I once again feel on the roll I felt while the Liebrano$$$ were still in power. The Sentinel is again training the gunsights on the Liebrano$$$ in a focussed way.
Iggy the politician cannot sustain the Canadian Sentinel’s attacks. What a disappointing man, that Iggy Piggy.
http://thecanadiansentinel.blogspot.com/2006/10/iggy-protests-too-much-pm-has-no-right.html
Those are very good points, nomdenet, the fact that the Liberals totally ignored the federal duties of gov’t, such as defence, foreign relations and the economy, and moved Behind The Wall of Isolation, into provincial and municipal matters – such as education, health care, city transportation, etc.
Yes, Canada is a Kept Mistress. The Liberals moved us out of the world and into the economic care of the US. We are not competitive in the world market; 85% of our exports go to one country, the US. We insist they purchase our goods or we have a fit. We certainly don’t compete with other countries to sell our goods around the world.
We have no investor class; we tax and tax our citizens so that no investor class can develop. We have to turn to foreign aid to build our infrastructures and develop our raw resources. We can’t do it.
Quebec is even more insulated within the cocoon of Canada, with its socialist welfare goodies provided by ‘equalization’ funding from the Canadian taxpayer. Their day care can’t fund itself, their health care can’t fund itself, their unions and pensions can’t fund themselves.
Their university tuition fees are the lowest in Canada, thanks to the ROC. Oh, and those low fees are also provided to any and all francophones from around the world, such as France and Belgium. But, if you are a student from Canada, then, you pay double those fees. The low fees are only for world francophones. Courtesy of the ROC. Ignatieff was speaking to this isolationist mentality when he made his remarks.
I agree with nomdenet, I think it will be Rae as the next leader of the Liberals. He’s part of the PowerCorp, Desmarais Ottawa-Montreal Chretien Gang. Remember what he did to Ontario.
Strange that you prefer Dion garhane.
Given your comments I would have placed you squarely in Hedi Frys camp.
Stephen Harper said most Liberal leadership candidates were ‘anti-Israel.’ What do you think of this?
Fair political dialogue
6881 votes (65 %)
Unfair attack on opponents
3766 votes (35 %)
Total Votes: 10647
LIEBerals take a shellacing again.
Way to go SDA!
You know Michael Savage was right Liberalism is a mental disorder. Can’t the Canadian Government declare a medical emergency and round up anyone who is suffering from liberalism for there own protection?
Craig Oliver said:
“But how can this be?”
“This is not what Canadians have been told to think!”
“This is not what we have been telling them to think!”
“Now I don’t know what to think!”
Volpe trashing Flip-Flop Iggy on CTV….-
Apparently Harper identified Volpe as the only Liberal leadership candidate who is not anti-Israel … and Volpe thanked him for acknowledging that fact.
Then Volpe excoriated Ignatieff on his flip flopping and string of clarifications on his positions from day to day. He called this a “defining issue” in the Liberal race …. !!!!
He also said he will fight back against those who have mischaracterized his campaign … and he will appeal and be vindicated of all charges … which some believe were initiated by the Ignatieff camp …. LOL … !!!
Why do I think that Volpe will take out his vengeance against the Ignatieff campaign before they even get to Montreal in December …!!!
GO JOE … GOOOOOOO ….. !!!!!! …-
Comment at voy forum
GO JOE! is right maz.
This has all the makings of a great trainwreck.
Well….Who would have thunk it….Joe Volpe holds the high moral ground in the Liebral leadership race…..LOL!!!!
Syncro
I’ve been watching the Ignatieff debate with Steve Paikin on TVO’s The Agenda. And my conclusion is that Ignatieff is a cross between Chretien and Martin. Dreadful thing to say, but my point is that he lives in an entirely rhetorical or fictional rather than factual world.
He began with the notion of Canada moving into a civil war unless Quebec was declared ‘a nation’. The problem with this is that there is no factual evidence of a civil war; and that, as other commentators on the panel declared, this move to declaring Quebec a nation would open up other ‘distinct nations’ in Canada, such as Alberta, Newfoundland, BC. Why just Quebec?
Ignatieff is effectively 30 years behind the times in Canada. He doesn’t realize how Canada has moved out of centralism and into a geographic spread of at least five ‘regions’. BC and the West; North; Ontario. Quebec. Maritimes. Each is distinct.
If you can believe it, Ignatieff said that a Quebec complaint was that their health cards weren’t recognized in other parts of Canada. Heh. Quebec doesn’t recognize any other provinces health card either. AND, Ignatieff is ignoring that health care is a provincial matter. Ignatieff was talking about this as ‘mobility rights for Canadians’. hmmm; sounds like a Charter Issue. Just like Martin’s SSM.
Then, Ignatieff said that Quebecers are constantly asking ‘when will we be part of the Canadian fabric’. Sure.
He was asked – how would you sell this ‘Quebec is a nation’ to Canadians? He didn’t reply; he just went into academic rhetoric.
Then, Paikin asked him about the discrepency between this three statements on Israel, moving from “I am an expert and Israel committed war crimes’ to ‘I’m not an expert and international bodies define war crimes’ to ‘both sides carried out war crimes’. He didn’t clarify this, other than to repeat and assert that there was no discrepancy.
This kind of talk can be done in the academic halls, but not in the real world.
Then, Ignatieff was asked how he felt he could govern a country that he had lived outside of for 30 years. Ignatieff, again, ignored the factual and moved into the fictional emotion of ‘absence makes the heart grow fonder’ (yes he really said that) which asserts that the expat is a better Canadian because they’ve left for 30 years. He also claimed that he could have had a successful career in Canada but again, skipped the facts about why he left. He also moved into that the expat has experienced what a Canadian hasn’t – the experience of ‘missing Canada’. My god. That’s pretty disgusting.
Then, again, his concept of the divisions within Canada are a generation out of date. He simply isn’t aware of the geographic and demographic and economic movt from the east to the west. He may be theoretically aware of it, but his focus on Quebec as a nation denies it. What are the divisions he sees in Canada? The focus on Quebec means ‘language’; the other division is urban/rural. Note that both these divisions are centralist in focus. They are not the real divisions, which are geographic and demographic.
The real divisions are economic areas; the Maritimes, Quebec, Ontario, the West/BC and the North. These are not centralist divisions but regional divisions.
But Ignatieff is doing an academic ‘class’ style of division throughout the whole country. Urban vs rural. And ‘Canada’ vs Quebec.
Urban/rural is not unique to Canada but is a reality everywhere in the world.
My feeling about Ignatieff in all his comments was that he was living, thinking, working within a totally fictional, or rhetorical world. The practicalities of these ideas are completely missing, he was unable to answer questions ‘what do you do about it’.
Compare Harper, with his practical applied tactics, of ‘we do this, and then this, and then this’. Each one specific, each one particular.
Then, we get Ignatieff with a theoretical monologue of ‘farmers, producers, consumers must all work together’. How? He can’t answer.
There were no questions on foreign policy, defense, economic devt. Nothing to do with the federal gov’t, only with the Liberal mov’t over the past decades into the provincial and municipal areas – which wasn’t acknowledged.
All of the comments regrading the liberals wanting to get votes from the muslim community are correct..they hate jews. So did Mackenzie king.
I would hope that everyone would remember that Bob Rae is the candidate from Power Corp and as such has the best chance of leading this country.
This insideous control of our nations politics has been going on for quite some time.
Please don’t be side tracked by little events. Rae and Power Corp must be stopped.
There were some vicious anti jewish posts in the g&m. Most saying we should not be swayed by any religious group. Wonder if those posters have ever paid attention to the libs and talibanjacks bending over backward when the terrorist supporters are offended. At least the jews are not out burning and rioting. Just withdrawing their moral and financial support from the libranos. Wonder how many jewish delegates there are, who might not cast that first ballot. We now have a racist campaign, anti Italian, anti jewish, pro muslim, anti christian, pro homosexual
and regardless of the winner, pro opposition for 4 years. Those stmts by iggy will follow him like dithers follows martin, and taliban jack folows the ndp. Has jacko made any comments on this issue or is he in hiding or in afgan negotiating with OBL.
Something very, very profound has happened to the Media in the last few months/years. I have been waiting all my life, it has arrived.
Actually, for centuries, the Media has been in control, of almost everything. For a very fundamental reason. They have always had a network, world wide, of reporters, agents, ect. AP, CP, ect. A news item would be reported from somewhere on the other side of the city, province, world. We would take it at face value. How could we research it ? Often we did not know anyone in the vicinity, phone calls were expensive, travel cost prohibative. But every one in a while a news story happened close to home. We knew all the details even before watching the news. Then the anchor would introduce the item, a few “selected” interviews and then the reporter on the scene would tell us how it was. I would often wonder where and the hell did they get THAT from ??? I was there !!Spin, spin. Most of us locals would be shaking our heads and saying “damned Media”.
I always thought, maybe the stories on the other side of the country are being reported in a misleading way also. How could we ever know ?
Well, now we do know and the media is being caught red handed on a daily basis. (sda just forced CTV to change its headlines)(Chistina Lawand fiasco also) Before the Internet and blogs, the media could broadcast the spin and get away with it, at least for a few weeks months. Now they are caught virtually instantaneously. They can no longer tell-us-how-it-is.
Hence, the motto, “you don’t speak for me”
I am afraid there will be an attempt to control the Internet’s freedom. Could be from the United Nations, disguised as quality control. The MSM would be on side, of course, but their influence may already have weakenned too much. In the name of freedom and democracy, we can only hope.
nondenet
What have you got against Come by Chance
The Liberal leadership is one circus act after another, Volpe and the piggy-bank supporters, Volpe and the Dearly Departed, Bob Rae skinny dipping with Rick Mercer on National TV and Iggy-Pop offending the Jewish people with his outrageous statement.
BUT,THE ABSOLUTE WORST OF ALL IS OUR PM HARPER OFFENDING THE DELICATE SENSIBILITIES OF THE goddamned LIBERALS……mortification all around, how could anyone accuse Liberals of OFFENDING anyone?
The media are turning themselves inside out to make sure Harper gets the most of their attention from Ignatieff’s stunning ignorance.
A bit of a reminder of that moment last summer that the veil fell revealing certain biases.
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=518fea97-7b51-49c9-bad6-e38070739bae
“MPs want Hezbollah taken off terror list
NDP, Liberal members say designation hinders peace process”
“”We are deeply ashamed that our prime minister had some incredibly irresponsible comments to make at the beginning of the war,” Mr. Wrzesnewskyj told a group of Lebanese who had lost many relatives during the conflict.
“It was the Liberals, not the Conservatives, who placed Hezbollah on Canada’s terror list and, while acknowledging this, Mr. Wrzesnewskyj said: “When you realize that a mistake has been made that does not provide for a solution, you don’t entrench your decision.”
Nope, can’t see any reason why anyone would think the lib-left coalition has it in for Israel.
No reason at all.
BTW
If Iggy has lived in and taught in Israel he should be well aware of what life is like there. Funny how that time in Israel doesn’t seem to be mentioned anywhere on his CV, nor does it mention the school he taught at, or give a year. Of course that must just be an oversight, liberals would never embellish their resume to pander for votes…would they?
ronrob … heheheh.. Yeah, I shouldn’t wish Liberals that town. Actually, I really like Newfoundland, may move there (part time) especially if Danny Williams learns that oil capital is different than regulated cable TV .. ;>)
ET, if Iggy is “between Chrétien and Martin” that is indeed “dreadful”. I believe you’ve changed your mind about Iggy, as I have. I wonder how I was duped?
I’ve met him, heard him speak at a dinner, saw him rather courageously defend his Iraq position in front of a bunch of utopians from UofT. I was frankly impressed, as were others at my table. A month ago, I thought his discussion about Quebec, as a “nation”, was just an unfortunate choice of words but that Quebec and 4 other regions in Canada are distinct/unique/different and that he was courageous to start to get that out on the table against the Liberal tradition of command and control centralism.
Now, like you, I see a ditherer. It makes me wonder if the Liberals, like the Dhimmicrats, are so empty, lacking in spine and just plain hollow; can cause a kind of Stockholm Syndrome to set in .. has he gone native with the cult of Librano$ ?
I’ve seen that happen in the workplace. Particularly with foreign assignments. A kind of homesickness sets in and people start to lose their bearings. Maybe Iggy was a good Harvard Prof. and he should simply go back there to homebase for a rehab.
Maybe he’s like Plato who came into a messy world, was able to correctly analyse it as a chaotic series of trail and error but instead of applying realistic solutions to it, he mistakenly tries to arrest change by compartmentalizing, e.g. Quebec. I wouldn’t be surprised if he soon doesn’t suggest Quebec go back to the feudal Seigneurial system and that “Iggy the expert” will rule over these pockets of closed societies and we’ll all be happy like in his imagined good ol days.
I’m frankly puzzled by him. Thank goodness for the democratization of information with blogs, we’ll figure this out eventually.
A good day to be Conservative.
Thank you Mr. Harper for being a great leader.
And may the other parties wallow in their own filth just a while longer.
“BUT,THE ABSOLUTE WORST OF ALL IS OUR PM HARPER OFFENDING THE DELICATE SENSIBILITIES OF THE goddamned LIBERALS”
The Liberals aren’t offended. They just know that this Anti-Israel label is going to stick. They already lost support from pro-Israel members of their party. This reminds them why they left. Also, being labelled Anti-Israel leaves the impression that you are intolerant. Not a good thing when your entire campaign strategy is based on calling the other guy a bigot.
“Unfair attack on opponents” C’mon CTV just say it is Iggy (or not) anti-Isreal. What a pansy question.
and yet the igster is front runner.
how can this be????? majority liberals agree Israel is committing war crimes ???? that seems to be the case.
where is this going to lead ?
I understand why Israel’s Apartheid policies/militarism might appeal to conservatives but why all the love for a perennial welfare case?
A panel of female MPs on Question Period Friday with Giggles Taber… Judy Sgro goes on and on about how Harper is dividing the country when we should be working together and getting along with each other. Giggles interjects “So are you saying that Stephen Harper is intolerant?”. What an insane question. The media is trying their best to turn this around as Harper’s faux pas, not Ignatieff’s. Makes me want to puke. Why not ask if Ignatieff is intolerant??
The Liberals are the experts at dividing the country. They always try to find a deeply divisive wedge issue to divide and conquer. How about their attacks during recent election campaigns on anyone who is an evangelical Christian, anyone who is not pro- same-sex marriage, and basically saying anyone who agrees with the Conservative platform is “un-Canadian”? That smug little Judy Sgro, I can still remember her popping out of the bushes at a Stephen Harper campaign stop during the 2004 election and making crap up about Harper taking away women’s “rights”. How about all the stupid lies they made up about soldiers in the streets, etc. during the last election. And they have the gall to stand there and act all hurt and shocked that they got a bit of their own stinkin medicine back for once.
Harper is the best thing that has happened to this nation in a heck of a long time. And it’s great, because all that liberal slime was really stinking up the place.
There’s my rant for the night. (Hey, it’s not that late out here on the west coast). Sweet dreams!
joebaloni, ever consider what happened to the untold billions of Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, others, and their progeny that used to populate the “Islamic world”?
Consider this: Mohammed was born in 640 AD. The entire ME, East Asia, West Africa, to the heart of Europe and beyond “used” to be inhabited by “others”. Have you ever considered the obvious numbers of individuals expelled, compelled, or outright killed in the ever exanding “Islamic homelands” since 640 AD? Islam continues to grow by the same sword, Nigeria, Sudan, Indonesia, Afghanistan, and Iraq are only chapters in a long, long book.
You must be very ignorant, or have some real nerve, to talk about “Israel’s Aartheid”.
Michelle Oleil is an Israeli citizen who once worked in Areil Sharon’s office. Again, all this proves is that some “Canadians” care more about Israel than they do about Canada. Maybe they should move there.
Bob – you have proven your ignorance about these matters when you called Israel an “asian nation”. You are a true lefty – all blather and no substance – trying to prove you are tolerant – all inclusive – then you make comments like you have in this thread regarding Israeli – Canadians.
Now Bob – if conservatives said things like that about Israeli’s or any other minority, the left and their media friends would have headlines, and polls and talk shows for hours on how this just proves what they have been saying all along.
Fact is Bobby, it is the left that is the true racists, they only pander to minorities when it serves them to get elected.
Oh and perhaps before you embarrass yourself with some more comments, you could pull out a map and have a gander at it
Bigots? Where?
In the Liberal Party of Canada?
Anti-Israel bigots in the Liberal Party?
Liberal commenter on Liberal blog says there are
bigots in the Liberal Party of Canada. …-
Anonymous said…
Catnip:
It is thinking like yours with your head in the sand thinking we are a party as pure as the snow without bigots or problems that has gotten us into the mess we are in right now.
Are you seriously suggesting there are no bigots in this party? Give your head a shake. …-
cerberus
I also watched Ignatieff on TVO’s “The Agenda.” Thanks, ET, for the anyalysis.
Michael Ignatieff, as “polished” as his presentation may be, is totally out of his depth in this leadership race (if you can apply “depth” to anything the Liberals do). It was actually painfully embarrassing to hear him talk about how being away from Canada qualifies him for leading the Liberals and possibly the country.
He, frankly, doesn’t know what the H*ll he’s talking about. He’s out of touch with the flesh and blood of Canada, the ins and outs, the thrusts and parries, the detailed nuances of the political landscape because he has observed them only from the outside, from the U.S. or Britain–and, then, through the myopic Liberal lens. He’s pretending, as ET points out, that he’s connected (heck, he spent summers at his uncle’s farm in Quebec when he was young, “in the barns”), but it’s clear by the barely perceptible fear behind-the-eyes that he’s running scared.
If I was a mind reader, Micheal Ignatieff was thinking throughout this interview, “What the H*ll have I got myself into?” He comes from a genteel pedigree, his father, career diplomat and U. of T. Chancellor, George Ignatieff, the son of a Russian Princess and Count, and his mother, Alison Grant, a member of a family of Scots-Canadian intellectuals whose brother was George Grant, the Red Tory philosopher and author of “Lament for a Nation.”
‘Nothing wrong with Ignatieff’s pedigree which, I believe, has made the idea of public service something he admires and thinks should be “done,” but given that he has only been in the political bull ring in Ottawa for less than a year, it’s more wishful thinking than reality.
And that’s what’s embarrassing about Michael Ignatieff’s running for the leadership of the Liberal Party: He THINKS HE WOULD LIKE to serve his country of origin, which obviously, in his mind, justifies his having been parachuted into his riding (not, unfortunately, dealt with in the interview), but he’s just not up to the job, something that is becoming painfully obvious to anyone who is not hiding their head in the sand.
As to Ignatieff’s being “a second Trudeau”: Even if he was (he compared himself last night to PET in all of PET’s various global wanderings: ouch), that’s not what the Liberals or Canada need at this point in our history. Ignatieff looks good: He’s moderately handsome, he’s well-spoken even if you can drive a Mack truck through the inconsistencies in what he says, he’s “smart” (he’s a Harvard professor, for Heaven’s sake). But scratch the surface, and it’s clear he’s out of touch with what’s actually been going on in Canada for the past 30 years.
Unfortunately, however, if Ignatieff doesn’t clinch the leadership of the LPC, it looks too much as though Bob Rae will. With Paul Desmarais and Power Corps backing him, is this what Canada needs? More PMJC, PMPM, Mo Strong-(arm) tactics in Ottawa?
My vote is to scrap the LPC altogether. As a Party of integrity and principled policies they’re way past their sell-by date.
Bigots. In the Liberal Party. In the streets.
In the cities. In Canada.
I didn’t make this up.
Choose your Canada.
Poll Result
Stephen Harper said most Liberal leadership candidates were ‘anti-Israel.’ What do you think of this?
Fair political dialogue 11861 votes (68 %)
Unfair attack on opponents 5660 votes (32 %)
9:22 AM 10 14 06
“Contender Ignatieff appears to believe and accept
international media distortion of the so called bombing of the structure in Qana Lebanon. He unfortunately has advisors from the Toronto academic sector with Liberal Party links who are equally ignorant. The Liberal Party has never been anti-semitic, Jews were among it’s founders, but the Pearson, Chretien and Martin governments were without question Anti Israeli, saw it first hand
one of the reasons Martin lost to PM Harper. Most Liberals associated with Martin in particular are considered scum in the Party, and Chretien backing Rae is the “kiss of death” for Rae. Ignatieff will
be elected Leader by Delegates in December. But he will grow old as “leader of the Opposition” MacLeod
Posted by: Jack MacLeod | Oct 14, 2006 6:35:57 AM
http://westernstandard.blogs.com/shotgun/2006/10/israel_to_welco.html#comments
The above poster, a veteran Liberal, retired from the Party, confirms all the comments over the previous 3 years here at SDA regarding the Liberal Party, aka Librano$.
This man says he saw the anti-Semitism first hand. He must have been within the Liberal Party power [sic] hierarchy/structure. Is there regret/bitterness/sadness between his lines?
Furthermore, he says the anti-Semitism goes back decades to Pearson. No surprise there. Notice he does not include Trudeau in his indictment.
Is there any wonder why posters/commenters here posted their scorn/derision/ridicule of the Liberals, AdScam Chretien-Martin-Gagliano-Power Corp.-Maurice Strong, et al.
When a poster at Cerberus,a Liberal party member, acknowledges there are bigots, in particular anti-Israel bigots, who are voting members of the Liberal Party, what more can be said.
Yes, the Liberal Party is anti-Israel.
Evidence: Iggy’s campaign co-chairman, Liberal MP Denis Coderre, is a supporter of Hezbollah. The stated goal of Hezbollah is the destruction of Israel.
The Liberal Party must remain out of office for years. Let the bigots flop over to the NDP party of Taliban Jack Layton and his socialists. …-
nomdenet and been around – the thing about Ignatieff is that, regardless of the fact that he’s been out of the country for 30 years, what has damaged him beyond repair is that he’s spent those 30 years in an academic enclave.
I’m an academic; I know that it is, except within the sciences, a self-organized, self-created reality. It is entirely and completely fictional. There are no consequences to what you think and say. It is an entirely rhetorical world; you can write, say, read, talk – anything. And there are no real world, hard time, practical, material reality consequences.
That was obvious in the TVO interview. The fact that Ignatieff’s three statements about Israel and War Crimes were all contradictory to each other puzzled Steve Paikin who kept trying to get Ignatieff to, as we do in the Real World, select ONE. Ignatieff held to all three statements. You can do that in the academic world of semantics, the world of fiction, of postmodern relativism, where statements just ‘hang in the air’ but don’t have to operate in concrete, material reality. Therefore opinions don’t have to be consistent.
The fictional academic world can say three different perspectives, the fact that they are contradictory is irrelevant, for you can verbally, semantically, link them in an emotional surge.
Ignatieff uses this emotional underpinning to ooperate as the ‘cohesion’ in his opinions. Rather than logic, rather than hard core reality, he uses emotion to tie togther concepts which do NOT relate to each other.
So, he can define Quebec as a nation and use the emotional threat of ‘civil war’ to justify it. He can bring in trivia such that Quebecers are upset because their health cards aren’t recognized elsewhere as a justification for their being ‘upset’ and wanting a nation. ?? The fact that this would open up the country to a set of at least five distinct nations (Alberta, Ontario, north etc)..he hasn’t a clue, because he’s not emotional about them.
His rubbish about ‘absence makes the heart grow fonder’ is another tactic of emotion. He’s not running on practical agendas of fixing things, as is Harper. He’s running on pure emotion. That’s been teh Liberal strategy for years.
Remember Chretien and his emotional plea for ‘da little guy from Shawinigan’? A lie of course. Chretien and his emotional plea for ‘sponsorship funding’? Yet another lie; it was money laundering to retain Chretien in power.
Ignatieff is the same. No practical ideas, as we are getting from Harper. Instead, it’s all rhetoric and emotion. The rhetoric is filled with contradictory opinions, which is the norm in the academic world, for there are no consequences to verbal spouting of your opinions in the academic world. The emotion is a tactic to woo the plebeian and ignorant voter – a stance basic to the Liberals, who view the voter as ‘beer and popcorn’ types who must be appealed to via their emotions.
As I said, I like Ignatieff’s books, but, it isn’t that he isn’t a politician. It is that he cannot exist outside of the fictional make-it-yourself world of academia. He can’t exist in the real world where you can’t operate with contradictions, where you can’t operate with a perspective that is a generation out of date. Ignatieff should go back to the safe rooms of academia.
ET says “Ignatieff is going to have to go back to the safe rooms of academia”
Should we send Dion back there too? Since he apparently has duel citizenship with France, he could live chez Pierre (maybe Pettigrew will share his pied a terre on the Left Bank?). Dion could teach at one of the elitist Haute Écoles de Head in da Sand. Maybe attend a few soirées in the banlieues for a car-b-q.
Where can we send Rae? I think he should head up the TTC. He seems to have a passion for city congestion.. he’s got to be better than Howard Moscoe. Rae is the perfect guy to negotiate a single bid contract with subway cars from Bombardier.
I’m beginning to think the dark horse is Brison. He’s fiscally conservative, he voted to extend our mission in Afghanistan. I’m ok with gay marriage, that’s the least of our worries. Beam me up Scott! .. .errr maybe not.
Thanks, ET, for the academic angle on Ignatieff. His academic pedigree is just as damaging as his other myopic Liberal/fuzzily altruistic pedigrees are.
Iggy’s just a bundle of contradictions. I think he sincerely wants to “serve his country,” it’s just that he’s not up to it. And trust the Liberals to think that “image” is all that counts. On that score, Ignatieff more than fits the bill: attractive, articulate (within, as ET points out, “a self-organized, self-created reality”), affluent, ‘cosmopolitan,’ intelligent.
But he blew it, right off the bat, by allowing himself to be parachuted in to usurp the legitimate and duly elected Liberal candidate in the Lakeshore riding. That made it very clear, from the very beginning, that he is shallow and not at all above the usual dirty tricks the Librano$ pull off on a regular basis.
Character counts, and Iggy has badly compromised himself on this score.