I am a member of the Separation Party of Alberta. A person once accused me of treason because of this, but how can one commit treason when Canada’s government actually has legitimized a process whereby provinces can separate? (Clarity Act.)
I’m curious to know how many other SDA readers are Alberta separatists. If you are, what pushed you over the edge? If you’re an Albertan who isn’t in favour of separation, why not?
Let’s try and keep the comments on topic for this post, folks.
Yup. Alberta should separate. Good riddance. No more smarmy twerps like Ezra Levant, or mental defectives like Stockwell Day. (Say, wan’t there a forced sterilization policy out there?) After I moved back to Qu�bec from Calgary I started voting for the Bloc. Anything to be away from the freaks and bums from the Rest of Canada.
The Separation Party of Alberta could raise a lot of money out East.
Alberta seperation is about as smart an idea as Quebec seperation. Its a scheme advanced by ambitious fools who really don’t undestand what they have until it’s gone. We are a stronger country united, seperation would damage both the nation and the province.
Would you advocate Alberta becoming part of the U.S.?
That’s not surprising Guy, since many people out East don’t realize how much Alberta contributes to the country…
I’m not a member of the ASP, nor have I ever contributed funds to the party. That being said, I’m pretty close to joining up.
However, my emotions are mixed. One the one hand, I love Canada–but mostly for what it was. We’ve let ourselves slide into irrelancy through our destructive tax system, provincial and personal welfare system, neglect of the military, and lack of accountability in government. So, I hope that we can elect a conservative government who can make positive changes to return this country to being one of the greatest in the world.
On the other hand, I know that another Liberal government would fan the flames of separatism more than anything else. And I know that Alberta could do better on its own, than are in the current system. So part of me is actually hoping for a Liberal win, to speed the process of secession even more.
“Traitor”: “In law, treason is the crime of disloyalty to one’s nation. A person who reneges on an oath of loyalty or a pledge of allegiance, and in some way willfully cooperates with an enemy, is considered to be a traitor. Oran’s Dictionary of the Law (1983) defines treason as: “…[a]…citizen’s actions to help a foreign government overthrow, make war against, or seriously injure the [parent nation].” The English Statute of Treasons (1350) distinguished high treason from petty treason. Petty treason was the murder of one’s lawful superior, such as when a wife killed her husband, or a servant his master. High treason covered acts that constituted a serious threat to the stability or continuity of the state.”
I can say we should merge with the US or with communist China for that matter. The law allows this because it protects free speech. I’d still be traitor though.
TB
Cerberus
Salvage:
No, I would not advocate joining the U.S.
While I do admire parts of the American government, I don’t think it would be beneficial to Alberta.
And Quebec, as they are now, could never support themselves as an independent nation. Alberta can. That’s the difference.
What pushed me over the edge? Meatheads like Guy mostly. His tune will change when they lose the cash cow however. Also CWB, Kyoto, SSM, Federal Firearms Registry, EEE Senate stalling. Too many things to list. They do not want us or our ideas. Eastern Canadians are not our peers. They have a different mindset. Government as nanny. In a seperate Alberta or Independant West we will be masters of our own house.
And to be more precise about it in Canada:
“Crimial Code, Part II, section 46. (2) Every one commits treason who, in Canada,
(a) uses force or violence for the purpose of overthrowing the government of Canada or a province;
(b) without lawful authority, communicates or makes available to an agent of a state other than Canada, military or scientific information or any sketch, plan, model, article, note or document of a military or scientific character that he knows or ought to know may be used by that state for a purpose prejudicial to the safety or defence of Canada;
(c) conspires with any person to commit high treason or to do anything mentioned in paragraph (a);
(d) forms an intention to do anything that is high treason or that is mentioned in paragraph (a) and manifests that intention by an overt act; or
(e) conspires with any person to do anything mentioned in paragraph (b) or forms an intention to do anything mentioned in paragraph (b) and manifests that intention by an overt act.”
TB
Cerberus
Say, Alberta. If the libmoberals win again in the next federal election, please, please, please do separate. And please rescue/take BC, Sask, and Manitoba with you too.
I am on your side. I have had enough of this criminal joke of a federal government that we have suffered under for the last dozen years.
I’m not a member of the ASP either, but I would definitely vote for separation if it came to a vote. Like Shabbadoo, I love the old Canada but have very little emotional ties to the corrupt Liberal panty-waist socialist Liberal Canada. This new Canada is a navel-gazing international embarrassment.
Sean, I’m surprised you’re a separatist with your views on SSM. You’d fit much better in Toronto! 😉
It isn’t separation, it’s kicking Ontario and parts east out.
Seriously though, my primary recipe for Canada’s ills is federalism. As a start just return to the division of responsibilities outlined in the constitution. If you want a better Canada, have a carefully consigned federal government. The more “Canadian” (vice Albertan, Ontarian, etc.) they try to make us, the more separatist we will become. I’m proud to be Canadian, but only in those things we hold in common. For example, your opinion on health care and education are not things I particularly value if you aren’t from the same province as me.
What Bazoo said. Those are what pushed me over.
Thanks for the info TB.
We live in a country, where a government official can scam taxpayers of millions of dollars, pay back a portion and shed a crocodile tear or two, and get away without being called a “criminal.”
In a country like that, I have no problem being labeled a traitor.
Well at least we can all agree that Canada isn’t a real country, and that Ontario sucks. Let’s just call it off now and stay friends.
I am not a member of the separation party, but I am a definite supporter of separation. Canada has an incredibly corrupt federal government, and they have turned us into laughingstocks. We are a hypocritical county, encouraging United Nations to reform while sentancing people who defraud taxpayers to lecture at universities. Our “national pride” is a health care system that is also rife with fraud and doesn’t work, and every time someone mentions fixing it, “we don’t want American-style health care” is yelled while ignoring that there are dozens of other countries whose models we could follow. And that’s just two examples of the joke that this country has become.
Alberta would do well to start by getting rid of its federalist/socialist premier. See how it goes from there.
I am only in favour of Alberta separation if my province, BC, comes in on the deal.
Just think: a country with not only extensive oil fields but a shipping port on the Pacific?
We’d rule!
Judging by the following, what would happen to Quebec if Alberta separated. Seems a big slice of equalization paid to QC comes from AL….
http://angryincanada.blogspot.com/2005/09/charity-begins-in-quebec.html
Dear Alberta Separatists,
As the QuebecHarpermaniac, let me explain something to you:
Quebec could survive without Canada. You talk about equalization payments? Quebec does not depend on them. That’s bullshit. We get them because that’s the system and the system has perverted our governance and civil service in Quebec.
A separate Quebec would wake up on day 1 smelling coffee. Either go bankrupt or change our ways.
You are deluding yourself if you think we’ll go bankrupt. We will choose to survive by cutting the civil service and reducing the services offered by the government.
In other words: Quebec separatism would be everything the separatists hate – funny, eh?
I say this because we always assume that things will run in a separated province just like they did in a confederated one. But that’s not accurate at all.
Could Alberta prosper without Canada? Absolutely.
But why bother? Cause you hate us easterners?
No you don’t.
The problem is you don’t see the natural alliance between Alberta and Quebec that could help make this country a fabulous place.
Up above, someone is using my name. No matter …. his thoughts are the same as mine. I want a WEST separation: AB,SK,MB and BC. Why do I want it you ask? Preston Manning said “The West wants in!”. The East said “Piss off. We don’t give a rat’s ass what you want but we’ll sure take your money”.
I think Canada should break up. Like most I have fond memories of what it used to be like, when hard work was prized over victimhood, when theft from the public treasury was a terrible thing, and when and the national anthem at the start of the CBC broadcast in the morning filled me with pride.
Those days are long gone. Today we’re country with no identity save for a low-brow anti-Americanism and perhaps a unique tolerance for corruption.
I hope Alberta goes its own way, because that will herald the departure of my own province, British Columbia.
Can anyone seriously say that Alberta or BC would suffer because of it?
Re: “laughingstocks”. Who or whom is calling Canada a laughingstock? Surely not yourself, unless spitting venom and resentment at your family and neighbors is what passes for laughter and frivolity in the mind of a *new* Canadian conservative these days. Certainly nobody down here (Michigan) except for the oddball Pat Buchanan remark that nobody pays attention. You live in a land of enormous geographical size, in a hostile environment, with two languages and cultures, with wealth and opportunity AND despite all your differences and swinging handbags at each other, for the most part manage to work together in harmony and peace and keep good relations with your neighbors. The United States doesn’t laugh at that. I suspect the rest of the world doesn’t either. Canada has respect and dignity, you should be proud. On the contrary, it is your self-loathing and hostility that’s laughable — laughably ignorant.
I am torn between disdain and distrust in the Canada we have become and the country I served proudly in the RCAF/CAF for 25 years. Can the country be rescued by a complete change of government and with that change also a complete change of ethics and ethos in the direction the country should be taken? That ethos would recognize the individual as paramount with the federal government providing those needs that can only be met collectively, roads , national defence, currency, an incorrupible system of law and justice ,etc. rather than big government being paramount. Being in my fourth quarter of my first century of life my patience is not inexhaustible. If just one more election provides a roadblock to achievement of these ends I believe I would have to espouse separation as the only viable alternative. I would nevertheless hold the hope that the rest of the country would see the writing on the wall and espouse the same bright beacon of hope this radical change of direction for Alberta, and perhaps the whole west, would hold for all of Canada.
I think separation should happen because you know you would have the the best shot at being what you want to be and a chance to better have the life you want, not because you don’t like what you have now.
It’s like a person comtemplating a divorce. There are reasons to get out but they’re not as important as the reasons to want to be somewhere.
The straw that broke the camels back for me was back on the 10th of march (I think, it could have been May) when PMPM ignored the fall of his government and just kept on going. Any other true democracy on this planet would of had him and his crew hanginf from trees on the front lawn. VIVA LA LIBERTA ALBERTA!!!!!!
“A separate Quebec would wake up on day 1 smelling coffee. Either go bankrupt or change our ways.”
Could you afford coffee without the huge Federal transfers’ of $$ in Quebec ??
Maybe you could substitue poutine for coffee . . . that’s a big part of Quebec culture and we understand you have lots of it.
Wouldn’t bankruptcy be fun . . you could be as poor as Cuba except you would be free.
Please go . . Westerners are sooooooo tired of paying for your ambitions. We’ll make you a good deal if you take Ontario, well at least the Toronto – Ottawa region wth you. Special . . . . a 2-fer
Provided you simply advocate separation by constitutional means (whatever that is these days), you are not treasonous by law.
But of course you are no better or worse than any other separatist, an Albertan Tweedledum to a Qu�b�cois Tweedledee.
You are peas of a pod; both whining brats who always want their own way regardless.
I don’t know if Alberta should separate or not, it depends on what is best for Alberta. I don’t think they owe anything to Canada.
But as an eastener who can’t currently bring herself to leave a good job and all her family, I am asking you: Please, when it’s time to separate, give me some warning first. I’ll be on the next flight to Calgary, job and in-laws be damned. I’ll work in a coffee shop if I have to, but if there is going to be a country of Alberta, I would much rather live there than in a Canada without you.
I’m not an Albertan; I live in Ontario. Does that disqualify me from joining?
Before you automatically say no I should mention that I’ve visited & worked in Calgary on several short stints. Would that not make me eligible for dual residency & thus an absentee Albertan?
Oh yeah. I’ve been told I look good in a cowboy hat.
I’m going to recall my earlier remarks. I don’t really want to separate from Canada, but I’d love to separate from Ottawa, the GTA and that JJM clown who sits on his Ivory Tower / Throne (also known as a toilet).
Billy Bob Tweed, from Michigan, appears to me to be a leftist crank, and not to be taken seriously.
I used to like Canada. My Uncle Fritz was in the 82nd Airborne in WW II, and he told me the story of jumping behind German lines into the Netherlands in September of 1944, and being surrounded by the Waffen SS. They managed to survive only because units of the Canadian Army came to their rescue.
Imagine something comparable happening today.
As an American, I have no dog in this fight. However, if secession does ever happen, I would strongly argue against joining the U.S. I think an independent Alberta/B.C. would become a vibrant new member of the Angloshere, punching above its weight much as Australia does. And I fear if Hillary Clinton and like minded liberals enjoy a generation of power, they would turn the U.S. into the Canada of today. It could happen. An electorate capable of electing Bill Clinton, twice, cannot be trusted.
Americans such as myself see an independent Alberta/B.C. as a potential political refuge.
Canada passed it’s ‘best before’ date at the moment Pierre Idiot Trudeau was elected. It’s been in freefall as a viable nation ever since.
Floating a nanny state with half the country working directly or indirectly for government is no way to build a tax base to sustain such dependancy.
Supporting useless legacy-producing changes such as bilinualism, multiculturalism, metic system, full blown Indian welfare substate, Quebec payolla, corruption and graft at all levels …. is suicide in slo-mo.
Canada has been plundered by it’s ‘betters’ in every way possible. Why wouldn’t Alberta that has a poplulation of people who still have some decent values and integrity, want to leave the sodomy applauding Eastern neighbors. We have little in common.
Canada is not a real country .. it’s used to be, but not anymore. I am in BC and my great hope is that if Alberta goes, BC will get sucked into the vortex and go with them.
As a born and bred Ontario lad, I’d like to say I support Western Separation because it is the only thing on the horizon capable of smacking the power elite of this country out of their smarmy superiority and Quebec worship.
I’d prefer it if the country could remain united, but if it must split could Western Ontario please come along with you guys? We could make the border right at the Credit River between Oakville and the People’s Republic of Toronto.
I am not a member of the ASP but then again I’m not a member of any party. I wouldn’t want to leave BC,Sask,and Manitoba behind in Canada to be worked over by Ottawa. Wow Bazoo, the Canadian Western Bank ticks you off that much huh 🙂
I tend to agree with Charles Fallon that Alberta and Quebec have many common interests within Canada. I think every Albertan is starting to understand the feelings of Quebeckers a little better. If the BQ morphed into more of an Action Democratique style of Provincial Rights Party and ran candidates across the country, it would be a serious entity.
Treason?!? As our new governor general stated.
�The duty of the citizen becomes a crime if it makes him forget the duty of the man.�
My thoughts as a life-long Maritimer mirror The Phantom’s, just above. Alberta should just go. As long as it stays, the Liberals will use them as the boogeyman in election after election to scare the soft socialist mass of Ontario voters into returning them to power. If such open bigotry and hostility toward the west cannot be defeated at the ballot box through the election of a party led by a westerner and supported strongly by westerners, there’s no point in keeping the country together anyway.
I am definitely for seperation, but only under one condition. The seperation party must find a credible leader. Then, watch the floodgates of seperation open up to those sitting on the proverbial fence…….
I can understand why alberta should seperate. None the less it would leave me very sad. When I lived and worked in Alberta I found the folks there, honest, generous and hard working. The core problem is that the legacy of chretien/martin is a country that believes in “nothing”. Canadians live day to day, pay day to pay day with a destroyed heritage and a vision of nothing. Everything is decided on which way the wind is blowing and how things can be manipulated. The folks I know in Alberta want a country they can believe in and be proud of.
While i don’t like it I can understand Alberta going it’s own way and I wish them “gods spead”
Charles, As a Quebecker, I wish what you wrote was true, but alas, wishing does not make it so.
“Quebec could survive without Canada. You talk about equalization payments? Quebec does not depend on them. That’s bullshit. We get them because that’s the system and the system has perverted our governance and civil service in Quebec.”
The government & unions control public opinion. There has never been a protest against our incredibly high taxes and strongly statist ‘national’ government. If they lose the federal transfer payments, they will bump up taxes some more and nationalize whatever industries that can. They call this ‘Investing in Our Future’. I call it ‘Wasting Our Property’.
“You are deluding yourself if you think we’ll go bankrupt. We will choose to survive by cutting the civil service and reducing the services offered by the government.”
Sorry. YOU are deluding yourself thinking that the public will have the will to cut the civil service and reduce services. The public wants more… especially if the unions show them how it’s coming from the rich. There will be another mass exodus from Quebec, taking all the better minds and money.
“In other words: Quebec separatism would be everything the separatists hate – funny, eh?”
Seperatism is about control. They will justify the increased taxes and socialist state as the fruits of their struggle.
Time to move to Alberta !!
The Phantom said
“I’d prefer it if the country could remain united, but if it must split could Western Ontario please come along with you guys? We could make the border right at the Credit River between Oakville and the People’s Republic of Toronto.”
Um, if it’s OK with you, could we make the border the 427? That way some more of us 905ers that despise the PRoT can come along too.
Jeff said: “I am definitely for seperation, but only under one condition. The seperation party must find a credible leader. Then, watch the floodgates of seperation open up to those sitting on the proverbial fence…….”
A credible leader? How about Ted Morton?
I am not a member of the ASP – however, I am an advocate for separation. It took me a long time to find my way here – but I believe that the only way Eastern Canada is ever going to understand that we mean business is the leave. In my heart I believe that the best thing for Canada is a much looser form or confederation – which would also satisfy Quebec.
Canada, in it’s present form does not work. Equalization has been a complete failure, keeping “have not” provinces down rather than building them up. Arrogance and corruption at the national level has turned us into a Banana Republic and poorly concieved welfare programs have turned us into a nanny state. All of which is being paid for by Alberta and Ontario. As an Albertan I’d be perfectly happy to pay all those ridiculous bills as long as I get a voice at the table.
Alberta deserves this voice and as long as Eastern Canada is not willing to even entertain the notion of parliamentary reform, and other solutions to the democratic deficit (EEE senate etc.) that presently exists in the country I will continue to advocate for western separatism! Right now we get nothing – na da – squat for our investment.
Obviously there’s no treason at all involved in advocating a change in the structure of government. Do you self-righteous eastern types, who get a thrill out of squawking “treason” at the people who pay your welfare, consider the Fathers of Confederation to have been traitors? Why not? What’s the difference? Didn’t they owe allegiance to a government? and didn’t they want a different government? String ’em up for traitors!
Look, nobody owes any allegiance to the Canadian government. A Canadian owes allegiance to the Queen, personally. What’s that? You owe your allegiance to any garbage-eating wog that tickles Paul Martin’s fancy? Congratulations, you’re not a Canadian, and you have no right to lecture anybody.
Every Canadian has the right to advocate any change of government he considers advisable, and to take steps to bring that change about. That’s not treason, that’s citizenship. Call a separatist a traitor and you simply identify yourself as a moral idiot and an incompetent citizen.
Of course there’s no equivalency between Quebec and Alberta separatism. Canada has spent forty years and untold billions of dollars paying for the loyalty of Quebeckers. I can easily understand how an uninformed and stupid easterner – which would be, in short, an easterner – can imagine that there was some kind of deal going on, in which Quebeckers had actually somehow agreed to be bought, and that they were now reneging on the deal. It’s a contemptibly stupid position, but an understandable one. I can certainly appreciate that an Ontarian who has been shown up as a damned fool will resent the people who showed him up. But you don’t have that gripe against Alberta. You’ve tied us up and raped us repeatedly. You’re god damned right we want to get away. Resent that? Great. Perhaps you’ll choke on that resentment and die, thus saving us the trouble of acquiring nuclear weapons and taking you out ourselves.
No, anybody who talks bullshit about “treason” is simply demonstrating that he has no brains and no balls. It’s how a coward talks big.
I grew up in Alberta, left for the States in 1981, and am now a US citizen. Albertans would be smart to separate — staying in Canada has no benefit for Alberta and, unless there is a radical change to the Senate (i.e., making it a regionally representative elected body), Alberta has absolutely no say in how Canada is governed. Alberta is a perfectly viable national unit — go for it! Get out of Canada before they nationalize your natural resources ….. But please, drop the notion of becoming part of the US — our political cultures are too different and it is doubtful (in the extreme) that the US would want to admit Alberta as a state.
Severation? Dr. Guillotine, where are you?????
Severance package for Dingwall?
By ALEXANDER PANETTA
OTTAWA (CP) – After resigning as head of the Royal Canadian Mint amid controversy, David Dingwall is being considered for a severance package>> cnews
“Alberta would do well to start by getting rid of its federalist/socialist premier.”
I’m workin’ on it.
“OTTAWA (CP) – After resigning as head of the Royal Canadian Mint amid controversy, David Dingwall is being considered for a severance package>> cnews”
C’mon, maz, there’s a reader tips thread here. Please post the news tips there and keep this one on topic, ok?
I support an independent Alberta as well. I live in Red Deer County, just north of the riding that elected the only separatist to Alberta’s legislature (back in 1982). This area is really the heart of separatism in Alberta, and I would say that already over 50% of the population of rural central Alberta support independence. I don’t know how deep that support is.
There is no single thing that pushed me over the edge in terms of my support for independence. I can best describe it as a combination of no credible proponents for Canada in this province, and a growing realization that confederation is really a colonialist mechanism that allows Ontario and Quebec to control the rest of Canada. Canada has democratic window dressing, but the reality of it is that the Prime Minister and the Supreme Court hold 100% of the policy making power in the country, and the Prime Minister alone controls 100% of the public purse. Eastern Canadians have a monopoly on the Prime Minister’s Office, and also control the Supreme Court as a result of a convention that guarantees Ontario and Quebec 6 out of the 9 seats on the court, regardless of what their populations are.
Is Sean a Librano$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$/Censor.
So to the ASPers, I think Albertans would be interested in knowing under what conditions the ASP would no longer want out of Canada. Sure the heat is a little high right now but what if in 15 years, the Conservatives have been in office for a decade? What does the ASP want?
Does it want:
1. A EEE senate
2. Lower taxation
3. A more responsible Canadian voice in international affairs.
What happens if Canada evolves such that these exist in 10-20 years? Does the ASP have such a wish list?
Yup, all for it. What’s taking so long?
Oh yeah, when you’re done, please invade Sask and rescue us over here too.
“Our frustration is greater when we have much and want more than when we have nothing and want some. We are less dissatisfied when we lack many things than when we seem to lack but one thing.”
Erich Hoffer
Alberta should just play the Quebec card . . . THREATEN to leave. Every time the nutjobs in Ottawa do something they don’t like, just do what Quebec did for its language laws & speak-police . . just say we don’t accept it and we will do what we want.
If Ottawa complains, just tell them to get stuffed. If they continue to complain, find ways to turn off the money taps to Ottawa . . .
Alberta should open up an embassy in Washington ASAP. If Ottawa complians – point to what Quebec does in countries like France and then tell ottawa to get stuffed.
Alberta should opt of ALL federal programs like pension, RCMP, Healthcare etc etc – like Quebec did.
Alberta to Ottawa. . you are Stuck on Stupid so we OPT OUT.
Now bugger off & leave us alone.
Fred, I agree, “the threat” is what we should be doing.
Brian C – good questions. IF the CPC was in power for 10 yrs and IF they actually did what good conservatives are supposed to do then the separation movement would die pretty quick out here.
So, abolish Same-Sex Marriage. Triple (or at least double) E Senate, increase military spending, get out of my life and leave me alone, lower taxes, eliminate the gun registry, eliminate hiring quotas for women and vismin (affirmative action) and quit pandering to Quebec. The obvious one would be “be honest and don’t rip us off like AdScam”. Those things would calm me down and bring me back to singing “O Canada”.