Two-tier, third world;
It didn’t take long for someone to jump on the Michael Moore bandwagon. Choice Medical Services is a Winnipeg based company that is offering health tourism trips to Cuba for those in need of eye, knee and shoulder surgeries as well as drug rehabilitation.
[…]
Provincial Health Minister Theresa Oswald was right on the ball when questioned about the health tourism trips, she was quoted as saying “It’s never been our government’s position to want to infringe on people’s right to do that,” That’s right Theresa, because you have no control over it. That has however not stopped your government from infringing on the people’s right to seek alternatives within Manitoba by refusing a license to the Maple’s Surgery Clinic or by buying the Pan Am Clinic at a price that was very hard to refuse!
Related: Cuban health care for Cubans.
Reader Alert This morning on John Gormley Live talks to a family that has fallen through the cracks. 3 years on a “waiting list” for heart surgery?
Segment is scheduled for 11:00 – 11:30 am Sask time, (1:00 – 1:30 Eastern ). You can listen live at the link.
I met a Cuban doctor once while in Cuba; he was our tour guide on a trip outside the hotel. Seems the only way for him to make a living was to conduct tours and put out his hand on the return to the hotel.
He showed us a row of houses built specifically for doctors – I wouldn’t have put my garden tools in there, they were so run down.
You know, one year ago, I would say, “Buck up, guys, we’re close to a provincial election.”
But then the sheep just went and reelected Fidel Doer once again. You reap what you sow, suckers. Too bad I have to live with your choices.
So I wonder when a’dam and manuel are going to book their health tour to cuba?
It seems insane to me to drive medical patients out of the country to spend their money, when it would be of benefit to have it stay here.
What is the difference between spending your money in Havana or Winnipeg? Keeping it at home would enhance the economy instead of some Commie Pinko Dictator’s.
Yep… thanks for posting that!
The Oswald’s and Doer’s and Chomiak’s are free to do whatever their tiny brains come up with for the next 4 years. It is not going to be pretty and thanks to the sheeple and the socialists we can expect three things as a result:
1- Further in debt
2- More regulation
3- Lower quality of services
When somebody has to go stay at the hospital in Russia, they have to take all their medications with them. Relatives buy the medications prescribed at the hospital somewhere else – the hospitals don’t have anything except for the very basic things like bandage and tourniquets.
Driving the patients out of the country is equal to outsourcing – the money leave the country not to be taxed. Conservatives think that outsourcing is Okay, right?
The money that has left the country has already been taxed. Medical tourists pay with after-tax income. If it stayed here the profit that the private medical facility made would be taxed corporately,and the client would have the opportunity claim a portion of the expense on their individual tax return.
It’s all a matter of the free market. If demand oustrips supply ( which it has ) the the consumer sources another supplier to meet their needs. In this case there is no other domestic supplier so they must source a foreign one.
It’s called choice. Something we have none of in Canada when it comes to health care.
One of the huge problems rural hospitals have is access to MRI and CAT scanners, and other expensive gear. There is a large demand for those services up north in Ontario, Quebec and indeed across the country. When you see a chopper flying somebody in from Mooseantler Ontario, that’s often what it is for.
In Minnesota where I lived there was a truck that came around regularly with an MRI suite. In Arizona there was one that had a lithotripsy suite that visited all the local hospitals in Phoenix. Gall stones, y’know.
I looked into getting one of these things up here in Canaduh, because being a greedy, grasping Capitalist I figured I could make a buttload of money off it.
Many companies (like five of ’em) said they would be overjoyed to lease me the complete portable whatever of my choice, and warned me the problem would be getting them licensed.
Sure enough, called up the Ontario licensing morons. They flatly told me there was no way in hell such a thing was going to be licensed, ever. Seems the cost of all those new tests would bankrupt OHIP, plus the government had no interest in “encouraging private medical profiteers”.
Patient care didn’t enter into the equation. They don’t care. Die on the waiting list or go to Buffalo. Private pay? That would be jumping the line! That’s EVIL!!!
Having recently come back from surgery in a third world country, I can confirm that the filth in the posted photos accurately reflects conditions in those hospitals.
Death on a waiting list in Canada or pay money, risk infection and death in a third world hospital.
Choice in Healthcare, Canadian style
So if Cuba can have two tier, Master Card Health Care and still be a charter member of the International Socialist Coalition, why can’t Canada ?
If it’s good enough for the commies, it should be good enough for Canadian Leftoids.
I am surprised that the lawyers *allow* these jaunts to Cuba. If a procedure goes terribly wrong, who they going to sue?
Interesting new slant on one aspect of medical care here in the US. Medicare has declared that they will not continue to pay for the correction of medical errors. The hospitals are having a conniption. They will not get paid for a procedure, and then paid again for another proceduce to correct the mistakes made in the first one.
If a doctor leaves an instument inside you it’s going to get taken out at the hospital’s expense, or I guess the lawsuit will pay for the removal.
“I am surprised that the lawyers *allow* these jaunts to Cuba.”
Unfortunately, our global clandestine cabal has not yet achieved the degree of power necessary to dictate the movement of individuals between countries. All in good time, my friend. All in good time.
Oops.
You didn’t see aaaaaanything.
Instead of offering a second-rate socialized healthcare product that no-one wants, Canada should be promoting healthcare tourism to its shores, the way Singapore does. We should promote success centres like the Shouldice centre, and encourage healthcare entrepreneurs to become the best in class at what they do.
Instead, healthcare has become socialized and corrupted by mediocrity and indifference — in spite of the fact that there are thousands of competent and caring healthcare professionals stuck in the system.
So lets fix it. Spend more money, and fix it for everybody… not just the people who can afford it. This is what a civilized people would do.
Whatever you do… don’t look south for an answer. Those savages wouldn’t know compassion if Jesus Christ himself bit them on the ass (and then healed them).
That’s the ticket, John.
Throw all your money at it and it’ll be fixed.
Notice I said all YOUR money.
Lead by example, please. I’m sure your money could save the health care system all by itself.
Some provinces and territories subsidize health care premiums: ie. Albertans pay monthly for their health care and Yukoners do not. Why is health care not subsidized for all Canadians or subsidized for all Canadians? I notice what comes out of my pocket more than how a province spends its transfer payments or manages its revenues. Also, maybe people who use the health care system more should have to pay more, within reason, of course. This would be an incentive for people not to bother the medical establishment for stupid reasons, and perhaps even be more health conscious – like quit smoking, drinking, and eating crap.
I don’t really think spending more money on the current health care system is the answer; I think some big changes need to be made, otherwise, the monies are just going to be piddled away and no substantial changes will have been made.
I wonder what kind of recourse you would have if you had botched surgery in Cuba….I’d rather go to the States.
“I am surprised that the lawyers *allow* these jaunts to Cuba. If a procedure goes terribly wrong, who they going to sue?”
No problemo, they’ll just sue the Canadian system for “forcing” the patients to seek sub-standard care in Cuba. Maybe they can even add Sicko Moore to the suit for promoting the Cuban system.
Repeat after me.
Health care is NOT free anywhere.
In Canada, it is an insurance plan whose premiums are paid primarily through the income tax system.
Regarding paying for outside country care, there are options which may allow you to do so and avoid paying tax on the money. Look up Health and Welfare trusts on the CRA site and then talk to a financial planner about starting one. They cost about $2oo, are open to anyone operating a corporation, numbered company, or professional corporation. Both HUB and SHIELD Financial offer the service. Costs are ~5-10% of the bill to have the claim assessed. Covers a lot of stuff and legal to boot.
@John at August 21, 2007 12:55 PM
“Whatever you do… don’t look south for an answer. Those savages….”
John,
I hope the next time you need medical care you (and others like you) refuse, as a matter of principle, to use any technologies invented or developed by the savages to the south. In a short while that should pretty much eliminate viewpoints held by people like you.
I’m surprised that you even condescend to use a medium (the internet) and technologies (the PC) developed by these savages.
John, why not become a principled person, and only use media not developed by savages to communicate with the rest of us. It would increase your principled status, and raise the level of intelligent conversation on the internet at the same time.
Richard:
But, but, but …
That would leave only smoke signals.
“That would leave only smoke signals.” but then it is hard to find any buffalo chips to burn anymore. (they are also hard to start too)
In Cuba, if you work for, say, a hotel, that hotelier pays a certain amount of money for your services to the Cuban government, which in turn, pockets 95% of that and gives you, the indentured servant, a whopping 5% of your true salary. Thats where the “free healthcare” comes from in Cuba.
“John, why not become a principled person, and only use media not developed by savages to communicate with the rest of us. It would increase your principled status, and raise the level of intelligent conversation on the internet at the same time.”
[Posted by: Richard Ball at August 21, 2007 2:55 PM]
Not to worry about the *Johns* of the world. History has seen their kind so much that it is nearly always a predictable outcome. They denigrate the knuckle-draggers and jackpine savages endlessly, until it is their ox being gored, or their life that is in the balance. Then there comes a shockingly rapid, miraculous conversion.
It would be better if there was a list of these *Johns* so that when that time comes the savages could say “No, but thanks for asking”.
Question:
Canada spends annually around 130 Billion $’s for health across the board. This to serve roughly 33 million souls.
That amounts to about: $4000.00 per head/year.
(That includes children and many many other healthy individuals who will not substantially use the system; some, like myself, for decades at a time)
How much coverage of private insurance can one get for $333 a month?
How much does it cost for say a 35 year old American male non smoker for a Blue Cross or other health insurance package?
Just a question…if our monopolistic,socialist heath care is SOOOO great,why does Manitoba have to allow flights for health care to Cuba? Maybe because all the good doctors,nurses,etc have fled for the U.S.? According to the lefties,we have the best care in the world,yet we have to ship people out to other countries for care!???. Can we say stupid? As in dumb and dumber?
i could say the same thing i always say.
The population is aging, and the cost of individual health care treatments are going up: the system is undercapitalized, and since it consumes over 40% of provincial budgets, no amount of reallocating is going to solve the problem. You simply have to get more money into the system, and that implies either a tax rise to support the public system or the development of a private system of some sort or other, either parallel to the public system or complementary to it. Failure to make a choice just leads to rationing.
Back in 1994, when Clinton was pushing for health care reform, I recall William F Buckley saying that a Canadian style health service would eventually lead to rationing. It was considered heresy at the time, especially by our local media commentators, but in 2007 you might just as well say, “Well, duh.” The chattering classes would still object, though.
Can we see Cuba running specialty medicine clinics haven for Tax worn Canucks with a shoddy unsustainable public health care system?…..do commies like fresh capitalista cash?
I am a 62 year old male. Since the age of 16 until
now, I have been paying income and various other taxes. Although retired now, I continue to have to pay Dalton McGuinty’s “Health Care Levy” of approx. $900. per annum, as well as the various taxes shown above. Now, I surmise that, if given the opportunity to pay a health-care premium in lieu of the portion on my taxes that have gone to the government system, my savings would have been such that I could have afforded the best, gold-plated, health-care insurance available.
Canada is ostensibly capitalist. Our health system is communist, central planning and no compketition allowed and no choice.
Communism does not work, buat Canadians keep trying to make a communist system work. Why ????
Boy Rattfuc do I hear you. I understand that it costs us 4,000.00 dollars per person per annum for each Canadian. Between my hubby and myself that would be 8,000.00 dollars per annum we could spend on an insurance plan . Seems to me we could get some pretty damn good coverage for that money,but I think we actually pay more than that each year thro our taxes for the priviledge of standing in line.I heard at one time that it was 11,000.00 dollars per tax paying person.Can anyone enlighten me on that?
Drug rehab, huh? Maybe we could get Spears and Lohan to go.
Just like Castro to be bearding for Trudeau.
What a sicko.
Where the healthcare is free and the sheep are nervous.
I’ve read this site and its commentary on Cuba for some time… thanks for linking to it Kate.
more fotos and information at …
http://www.therealcuba.com
it’s something to think about before the next “holiday season” arrives.
Works out to $4000 per person? And, a typical Canadian chews up 110% of their LIFETIME medical (tax) contributions in the LAST YEAR of THEIR LIFE. With the aging population, anyone else hear the ticking demographic time bomb?
tick, tick, Tick, TIck, TICk, TICK, TICK!
So John…
A couple of days ago during the discussion on the Quads I asked if you and your pregnant wife were in the same predicament, would you go to the States. You didn’t answer! So I ask again.
via CTV news tonight —
The mom of the quadruplets was sent from Calgary to Great Falls because it was determined that NO HOSPITAL IN CANADA was able to accommodate them.
Not one?
When my family/friends in the US speak longingly about the Canadian system, I warn them to be careful what they wish for … they just might get it.
“The only time that a socialist is acting in the public interest is when he is doing nothing.”
— Sterling Lyon, Premier of Manitoba (roughly 1980’s vintage quote)
Imagine if the Americans had a Canadian style health care system. Where exactly would those quadruplets have been sent — Japan?
I keep hearing the old saw that we spend too much money on health care. Really? How can we know? Without a market system, demand and supply, it’s utterly impossible to know the right amount to spend on health care, or any other commodity for that matter, relative to all the other goods and services available in the economy. Permitting a private tier to operate allows individuals so inclined, and with the means to do so, to pump even more money into Canadian health care, thereby providing the cash to obtain more of the resources — material, personnel etc to meet the demand. Those remaining with the purely government funded system don’t suffer. The total health care resources available within the economy would increase — it’s not a zero sum game as the leftists would have us believe. When I buy food at the grocery store does that impose starvation on someone in Moose Jaw? Hardly. Given all the things one can purchase in an economy, treatment for an illness is actually a pretty good buy. After all, it’s hard to enjoy any of the other amenities if one is bed-ridden, or in constant pain, or immobilized. Private care allows individuals who so chose to add cash to the health care system thereby providing it the ability to command the additional resources needed to build it and keep it functioning, driven by the motive of . . . profit. And why not, our food industry is profit driven, and the supermarket shelves are full. And for those of you who find profit such an ugly word, why are you the same people who fawn over the wheat board whose stated objective is to give food providers additional profit? What is it that makes profit in food production so noble that makes profit in health care provision so reprehensible?
Apropos the thread here yesterday–
This morning on the front page of The London Free Press the story of a fifteen month old girl with an enlarged tongue who will be taken to St. Louis for corrective surgery.
The poobahs at Children’s Hospital in Toronto deem her condition not serious enough to warrant immediate attention.
The wait time in Montreal for the specialist there is two years.
Apparently the childs condition prevents her from speaking.
OHIP refuses to pay for her operation outside Canada again citing that her life is not threatened as a result of the condition.
In ST. Louis the operation will be performed two days after consultation witht the surgeon at a cost of $18,000.00.
One has to wonder if the bureaucrat who holds the fate of this child was the parent of the child whether she would be held in the holding pen for two years before outside surgery would be paid for.
What a foul rotten system that rations care at the whim of some overpaid son-of-a-bitch in state health care authority.
This is happening right here in southern Ontario today.
Don’t anyone make the mistake that Canadian Health Care is not a state run communist system and rationing is it’s hallmark.
On a recent trip to Cuba I was told by a local that a doctor’s typical monthly salary is $50. I accidently ventured into a ‘pharmacy’ which had the grand total of 12 different items on it’s semi-bare shelves. Cuban doctors aren’t THAT good as they called in a ringer from Spain to diagnose Fidel’s recent ailments.
Oh and a little known fact is don’t croak in Cuba….the compulsory autopsy fee for dead touristas is a paltry 5000 U.S.. No pay? = they won’t release the body.