Live blogging Premier Calvert on the issue that has finally been brought to a head by a tax revolt of over half the rural municipalities in the province – over the disproportionate percentage that rural residents pay in the school tax portion of property taxes (up to three times that of neighboring Alberta farms.)
Speaking now, crudely paraphrased – “The most significant change in decades… (to rural taxation) … making it in advance of the SARM convention so that it can be cleared away to focus on other issues, as we work with the new federal government…. everyone is aware of the pressures on the family farm… even with the opening of the borders, the good outlook for moisture, StatsCan has advised another year of negative farm income is ahead because of commodity prices… the playing field is anything but level, farming in competition with the treasuries of Europe, farming in competition with very low wage jurisdictions… today’s announcement will not solve the farm income crisis… will offer tangible support.
Will restore a level of fairness in how we fund education of children… long term and sustainable…. argued 3 years ago that the level of education tax on farmland was unfair and too high. In the past 3 years he’s been “actively involved” in a solution.
They’ve restructured school boards, blah blah blah.
Decided to act immediately where the need is greatest, which is Saskatchewan farmland..
April 1, 2006, government is adding 52.8 M dollars targeted to tax relief for farmland, which should mean a 38% reduction to the education portion of property taxes for farmland and will be permanent funding. This will bring the percentage to a 60 – 40 split of provincial to local funding (for agricultural land only).
“we’re from the government and we are here to help”
be afraid, be very afraid & keep your hand on your wallet.
This is some really good news. It has taken way too long, but at least we have movement.
If I own a business (and the land it sits on), and 1000 square feet of my store doesn’t generate any revenue, should I get a break on what I pay on education tax for that 1000 square feet of property?
No.
Neither should farmers. This is just more welfare to sustain a dying lifestyle (and it *is* a lifestyle.)
“Neither should farmers. This is just more welfare to sustain a dying lifestyle (and it *is* a lifestyle.)”
So when the farming “lifestyle” finally dies, where do you plan on getting food?
I can’t understand why people are willing to support this out of control public education spending. After 13 years in the system, a graduate is virtually unemployable. Many don’t have basic literacy skills. Yet after a mere 7 further years, they can become physicians, lawyers, skilled tradesmen. With on-line learning, libraries, and apprenticeships available there is no need for us to support the white elephant that the public system has become. It’s babysitting, plain and simple. In Saskatchewan before the school board amalgation we had a district with one student and no schools. Yet they received funding. If the buses don’t run because of the cold weather, the teachers still show up at school. No students. No work. But we pay them anyway. If the weather warms up during the day, do the buses make their afternoon run even though they’re empty? Makes as much sense as having the teachers there all day in the empty classrooms. The waste of tax dollars is sickening.
Property taxes on farmland are unfair and finally Calvert is taking some positive steps after having been dragged kicking and screaming to the obvious.
There is a real problem in Sask. with its economic base. That’s why we see Calvert going to Washington trying to encourage oil development by the Americans in Sask. Calvert will have to disgard some of his 1950’s thinking if he is to reverse the trend of declining population and loss of youth in the province. Otherwise Sask will have no choice but to merge with another province because it will be left with old people and a large aboriginal population and no sustainable tax base.
Finish drawing your parallel urban dude….
If you do not build a building on that 1000 sq ft of your property you do get a break. With no improvement your taxes are not going up without buildings. The average farm has buildings on only a single quarter section (even ones that are 15,000 acres or more)
Education taxes are a disproportionate way of collecting taxes. Based only on expected income of of property, and nothing to do with who uses the service.
A couple of short examples:
My uncle and his wife, with 2 kids paying $5000 a year into our education system. Only problem is they live in Illinois.
Myself, I pay 4500 a year,… I don’t have a family in school or even a house.
My grandfather (up until his passing) Paid 1200 for the house in town…. and 9000 for his portion of the farm.
……………………………………
All told my “family farm” pays nearly 25000 in property taxes (18k in education)
……………………………………
On the revenue side I get $2.20 for barley that makes 300 bottles of beer. $3 of wheat is sold for $27 in nutters, or hundreds of dollares of bread (and taxes)
Hundreds of Millions in taxes are payed in the sales of products sold on my farm. If you paid 3.51 for a bottle of beer and not 3.50 and that penny went to the producer it would double the price of beer. The government raised taxes on it 9 cents a couple years ago. They wanted revenue….
I have no such mechanism to generate revenue. I am a price taker. Both on the side of revenues and inputs. Oh.. and taxes.
Today is a beginning on a road to fairness. I don’t want handouts from the government. Given a parity in subsidies between us, and the other developed nations (US and EU get nearly 1/3-1/2 income from subsidies. I get
Kate, if you had some kind of “small dead animal comment of the week” award, I would give it to Barcs.
Yup–believe it or not, there is a lot of forward thinking people in this often backward thinking province. And yes,some of us choose to live in rural Saskatchewan and we clearly understand the need for change. Let’s face it–many of us come from a small town, village or farm and many of them are already gone. I think often about how my town and region will look in 20 years and simply put, its not good. And if it gets really bad, I will leave–I won’t be happy about it–but I will leave.
Remember–there is more out here then just farms and fields–there are lakes, rivers, trees, valleys and rolling hills. Urban life may have its perks but so does rural living. And please–enough of the rural bashing-its getting terribly boring.
It’s about time the socialists began to fix the mess they created in the first place.
Schools were run by the communities until the CCF took them away from local control and bureaucratized them. Making education costs skyrocket.
I always remember the story my grandmother told about renewing insurance for their local school (she was the treasurer). This was when the CCF first brought in gov’t insurance and wrote letters to the school boards offering insurance. The school board wrote back stating they were quite happy with the insurance they had.
The CCF warned they had better buy gov’t insurance or they would be made an example of…
urban-dude,
Are you old enough to vote? “If you had” is nonsense – I assume you don’t … ask your mom and dad (although you don’t need food food to survive … they probably wonder why you ate it)
So when the farming “lifestyle” finally dies, where do you plan on getting food?
“UUUh,uuummmm,ohhh, the store, of course” replies Urban-dude, or is that Urban-dud.
Must be a leftie!
Horny toad
We know that 20% of farmers produce 80% of farm products. This tells us that a lot of “farmers” aren’t producing much. This also tells us that a lot of “farmers” are there for the lifestyle. That’s fine.
It’s also a great way to transfer wealth from one generation to another. And … when there’s a really great year, there are lots of previous losses to bring forward and a lot of things to deduct from income. That’s fine, too.
Just don’t ask the rest of us to pay for it. Rural residents already get subsidized electricity, natural gas and telecom services. What more do they want?
In SK, about half of farm income is from non-farm sources. Well, guess what: in Ontario it’s about 80%. What does this tell you about lifestyle?
We’ll get our food, guys. If not from Canada, from the US, which isn’t far away.
Andy,
Read every word that you posted.
We know that 20% of farmers produce 80% of farm products. This tells us that a lot of “farmers” aren’t producing much. This also tells us that a lot of “farmers” are there for the lifestyle. That’s fine.
It’s also a great way to transfer wealth from one generation to another. And … when there’s a really great year, there are lots of previous losses to bring forward and a lot of things to deduct from income. That’s fine, too.
Just don’t ask the rest of us to pay for it. Rural residents already get subsidized electricity, natural gas and telecom services. What more do they want?
In SK, about half of farm income is from non-farm sources. Well, guess what: in Ontario it’s about 80%. What does this tell you about lifestyle?
We’ll get our food, guys. If not from Canada, from the US, which isn’t far away.
Show it to your friends … I think that all will agree that your an idiot..
Hey ural!
You seem to have targetted urban-dude and me. Lots of people have called me an idiot. Lots of them I respect. You’re not there yet! You got some better ideas, sir or madam? Let’s hear them.
No target … except for naive. I don’t care for your respect … respect from an idiot – please … it’s the last thing I want.
We’ll get our food, guys. If not from Canada, from the US, which isn’t far away.
Sure you will…until the first truck strike, or terrorist action that closes the border.
Then you will starve.
And we’ll be sitting down on the farm eating steak and laughingly commenting on your skinny frame.
“We’ll get our food, guys. If not from Canada, from the US, which isn’t far away.”
And it is essentially correct… to a point.
You have hit on the exact reason for the EU (and espically Great Britan’s) reasons for subsidising ag.
Wars, droughts, and most espically evident in the world wars. People bordered on famine… rationing what they had because there was little more they could get.
They subsidize because they know what it is like to be hungry, and the governement has vowed that they never will be again. If a farm group there asks for a billion dollars they will be given 2 billion.
………….
But lets talk about subsidation.
-Like bombardier
-Like sasktel, sask energy, sask power,(3 of which I don’t have major problems with.)
-Like maple trees in backyards during Quebec ice storms
-Like pulp mills
-Like Potato ventures
-Like durg safehouses where they contribute to habits… so people don’t make themselves worse.
-Like 80 other crown corporations just in sask.
-Like healthcare for all you couch potatoes sitting at desks instead of exercising while you work.
-Like making a lake deeper.
-Like students
-Like university
-Like Dingwall
-Like fisherman
-Like twined highways for all the people in too much of a hurry to allow others to exist.
Don’t tell me farmers are the only ones asking for a break.
Maybe you’d like to come out to my place. Drive on the highway that noone drives on (watched a semi knock out a water hose last year on a set of ruts in the highway…. the same set that I drove my 4wd tractor around through the ditch cus it was too rough).
Maybe you’d like to go camping in the 5000 sq miles south of Shaunavon with no RCMP out there closer….
I get a few tax breaks now and then, like on equipment, fuel. A couple hundred off on my truck licence (peanuts considering the farm licenced 11 vehicles and 3 trailers last year… can’t drive them all at once)
But I total up my tax bill every year. PST, GST ( I don’t get it all back), Income tax, excise taxes, etc, etc, etc. Last year was over 25 grand,… what’s the average salary in Sask again?? $23k?
Who is subsidising who?? far as I can see it washes out pretty good.
One last thing before I turn in tonight. (gotta get up in 6 hours to haul grain…. who says farmers don’t do stuff in the winter??)
There is money to be made in the market, still surviving myself thankyou, but it is very thin.
Last year 3 people within 5 miles sold out their entire farm. And 2 more rented everything out. the 6th guy to the market….. abandoned his land for a year cus the bank wouldn’t give him credit to plant, and wouldn’t give anyone else credit to buy because we already streched the line buying the first 6 farms.
That farm… and 1 more… are already on the auction block this year. These are people that were actively expanding their business and doing well just 10 years ago.
This says only one thing to me. Crisis. As of this spring my land has dropped in value, noone has the cash to buy. And people are still being forced to get out of the game. If the next 3 years are like the last 2, land prices drop from an all time high in my area backwards to 1/2 what they are now. That means that everything bought in the last 2 years gets quit. Sign the deed to the bank cus the loan will be worth more than the land.
What’s it lead to??:
When the mill in P.A. announced closure people were up in arms. How would the community absorb 600 jobs?? and a few hundred supporting industry jobs….
Barely a handful. If what I just predicted would happen given a couple more bad years happens. you aren’t looking at 1000 people comming to the city looking for jobs. you are looking at 30-40,000 (1/2-2/3 the farmers in sask) farmers comming to the city looking for jobs.
Think the job market can handle that?
I like many of my neighbours am not unskilled labour either. I carry a degree with me, and years and years of experience working on and fixing equipment, keeping farm accounting records. And if it comes to pass, definately desperate enough to undercut your wage in order to eat.
When I see Dave McLean of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation saying an announcement by the NDP is a good thing I take notice.
If farmers could get a fair price for their crops and livestock, no breaks would be needed.
There is no such thing as a subsidy for rural people who produce anything that is consumed by urban dwellers.
City dwellers do not grow their grain or keep their livestock. There are no oil wells or mines in the cities. Rural dwellers support the lifestyles of urban through providing food, and all the raw materials for manufacture and energy.
Oh yeah … someone posted about Saskachewan joining with another province. I suggest we join with Alberta, but only if they take our name. One big Saskatchewan ….
Good posts Barcs. Over 600 farm auctions in 3 provinces this spring. Who is going to buy all that iron? 4 year old air drills will sell for 30 cents on the dollar. 20% of our farm land will grow weeds while the world starves. Another 30% of the land will be farmed for crop insurance. Thoses of us who cannot get $2.20 for malt get $1.50 for feed barley. Good non-chitted, low protien, high germ stuff that can’t find a market.
Now that we have identified ourselves as farm peasants maybe our detractors on this blog could tell us what government department will be paying their fully indexed pension after 25 years of EDO’s (earned days off) and accumulative sick leave.
This province, like East Germany, will fail unless our socialist wall comes down.
In our area, farmers that have come from Europe and bought farms, are now selling and going back home. The one I talked to said cannot believe how much worse it is here than where they came from.
I defy anyone to do their job, being paid in 1970 dollars, paying 2006 expenses. The average age of famers today is well in the 50’s. Nother few years, with the grass blowing in the wind, once we have all left the dirt to drift, who is going to pay those school taxes? And dont think for a minute Corporate farms will work this way and accept below cost of production prices for their product.
All i am asking is pay me what my crops are worth. As for subsidies, how much has been sunk in to Weirhouser at P.A? How about the near Billion dollars in the sawmill at Hudson Bay, Spudko, and it goes on.
Barcs…You reveal how much you pay, but why not tell us how much you have received from all those programs and that preferential tax status. You get $2.20 for barley cause that’s what it’s worth. You ever hear of capitalism? A penny’s increase would double the cost of a bottle of beer? With that kind of math it’s no wonder farmers can’t make a living without their hands in someonelse’s pocket. osama
$2.20 a bushel is not what malt barley is worth,, it is artifitially held down to that price by American and European Subsidies. They pay their farmers the difference between the artifitial low price and cost of production. As for prferential tax
status, anyone that runs a business in Canada knows that anything that is produced for export, deducts the tax on imputs.
I just recieved $2.98 for a bushel of hard red spring grading number 1 with a protien content of 12.4%. I paid the cost of shipping of that bushel of wheat to the port of Vancouver. Between me and Vancouver there are over 30 different unions. If my grain doesnt get to that port, as in just in time shipping. and the Cargo ship waits, we pay demurage on that ship. Totally out of my control.
Name me a product that is still produced today, that has been produced since 1900’s, that has not kept up with the cost of inflation. Travel out of this country and see what a restaurant meal costs you. People have no idea of how cheep we eat in this country.
As the above posting said, over 600 farm auctions this spring for three prairie provinces. People are loosing farms that have been in the family for three to four generations, Damn straight we are pissed!
mur…So be pissed. Just do it on your own dime. Why should farmers be treated any differently than any other economic player in the economy. The 600 who lost their jobs in P.A. are going to have to find another job, even if it means moving to the free-market paradise of Alberta. What they won’t be doing is waiting around for the next 20 years expecting to be bailed out until pulp and paper becomes viable again, or buggy whips come back into fashion.
Yep, there is so much subsidy money coming in, Osama come out from down east, pick up a couple sections, line of machinery, get in on the gravey train. Farm the postoffice.
Help out the local Fertilizer and chemical dealers. Bit too close to seeding time to get a deal on fertilizer, $450 a tonne. 1000 acres= approx. $72000. Seed cost is up a bit this year. Round up ready Canola is $30 per acre. Crop insurance premiums are up a bit this spring too, coverage is down along with it. Oh well, think I’ll take a run to town and check the mail again.
buck,somebody got a gun to your head, forcing you to farm? Quit whining, get a real job.
osama… not sure if you read the same post I wrote.
In effect told you how much barley is in a bottle of beer… 1 cent.
I also told you the government regularly raises taxes on alcohol when they want money. A couple of years ago they put 9 cents on the sale of a bottle. They get 9 times what I get… just cus they feel like it.
If I was to get out my books I could total it up for you in minutes (less than it would take to find my archives and dig them out of the mountain of paper in my storage room.) You want an average of what I get from programs…. say 4% of my income….. 4000 per 100,000….unless there is a crop failure. in which case insurance helps (ya I buy it, it isn’t free either). But I pay back in too some of them…. Like licencing trucks (11 and 3 trailers) that 3 of us drive… how likely that they will be involved in accidents compared to a husband and wife with 2 vehicles?? We can only drive 1 at a time each same as you.
Course that doesn’t compare with the 50 cents on the dollar that other subsidiseing countries pay.
But like I said somewhere up in the myraid of posts. I am not looking for a handout. I want my governemnt to protect me, just as you expect them to protect you with medicare, stopping terrorists, manage inflation…. I want them to get back to the WTO and negotiate those other countries into line with capitalism… especially the US since most of our exports got there. I want my government to go to bat for me and level the playing field so that I can compete on equal footing. And if they are too timid to stand up to others. I want them to compensate me for their cowardice.
“A gun to your head forcing you to farm” …0_0… no I could (and would) sell out if I thought there was no money to be made… more than by selling out…. And I am making money, just not much.
Here’s the catch tho lots of people aren’t. And since you are so strong on capitalism and markets, maybe you can tell me what happens when everyone decides to sell and noone has the cash to buy??? What happens to the labour market when they sell and go looking for jobs?
So a gun to my head forcing me? not really… plus I like the outside work and feeling of accomplishment, seeing what I have done.
Teh gun is more against my butt… over the pocket where I keep my wallet.
Some of the “farming is a life style, and nothing more” comments in this blog would make me laugh if they weren’t so sad. I live on a farm. If there is anyone out there who still is farming simply because of the lifestyle, we should all quickly get out there and find them. They really need help… they might even be unstable and a danger to society. I will admit there is an element of lifestyle in farming if you wish to think of it in this way. When I come in to my house at night, I am still at my business. I have to either walk past my desk that is piled high with paperwork that needs to be done or sit done at it and try to make a dent in it. Farming has become big business… and I mean really big business. A friend of mine bought a new combine last fall…at $365,000. He related these facts to me. In 1984, he bought a new combine for $11,700. His #3 wheat sold for approximately $3.28 per bushel. He figured that with his trade considered it took 100 acres of wheat to pay for the combine. Last fall, his #3 wheat sold for about $1.40 / bushel. With the trade considered, it now took 100,000 acres to pay for the combine…. 1000 times more in about 20 years. You will probably say that he should not have bought the combine, and there is probably a good case for that arguement. I asked him the same question. His answer was that by buying one new bigger combine, and trading his two combines on it, his annual payments owould be reduced by over $20,000 plus the machinery company would waive the payment the first year. Of course, there is only a little sense in this, but it tells a tale common amongst today’s farmers… that being trying to find a way to survive through another year. Farming is NOT an occupation for the weak hearted. It takes incredible management and work ethic. It takes committment. In the past two years I have heard more of my friends say they would get out of farming if they could find a way to get out that would leave them with anything at all. It is a tough transition. First, you have to find someone willing to buy the land. Secondly, you have to get past the stigma many farmers have of two, three or four generations working and living on a farm and raising their families. There needs to be more support for farm families to make this transition.
Finally this government has decided to do something about this total embarrassing situation of education tax on farm property. It is a good start, but that is all it is. Farmers will gladly pay their fair share in society. They have always done so … and probably always will. I can think of no group or no industry which has to put up with as much crap in regards to having little say in what their income will be. Mr. Calvert, I hope you don’t wallow in yoru generousity too long. Quite frankly, you should be ashamed of how you have allowed this to happen in this province. One really would think that in a world where there is poverty, starvation, and death, that the people who produce the food would be treated with more respect and consideration. In many parts of teh world, agriculture and the production of food is a very noble occupation, an it is treated as such. Here in Canada, our government policy has crippled a proud group of people to their knees and to a place where they are embarrassed to go. Farmers desire to be independent and the last thing they want is anything to do with government subsidy and handouts. We all know that all farmers cannot survive in this industry and we need to move to bigger more efficient operations. What is scary is that in this process we are almost to a point where our very best producers will be lost as well. Todays farmers should be urban Canada’s best friend. The other option is for large corporate farm based businesses that will probably be foreign owned as well. Talk about a wonderful way to take control of a country….. simply by taking over its food supply and having the countries own people assist in the takeover.