26 Replies to “‘Pecking’ up my vote.”

  1. New Zealand ended agricultural subsidies long ago without any serious drawbacks. The Ag sector is prospering.

  2. Removing at least one soviet-styled command economics mechanism is a great start but is made more than irrelevant by the taxation of CO2 at every stage of the production and supply chain.
    You’ve got to grease your holster constantly to get the drop on greedy commies.

  3. Martha Hall Findlay should run for leadership of the Conservatives. She could win too!

  4. That was, in reality, a debate between the anti-conservative media thugs and a libertarian oriented “Conservative”. Liberty is once again a revolutionary concept to the status quo statist looters and thugs.

  8. Bernier just undercut his base of support. I’ve always wondered why the commie types support charging poor people higher prices for basic food necessities and giving it to millionaire farmers. And trust me, there are no poor dairy, chicken, or turkey farmers left so that excuse is gone.

  9. As for ending SM the devil is in the details, namely how to finance compensation for the current quota holders. The dairy quota alone is estimated at over $25B, adding poultry sectors brings it near $30B. Both M H Findlay and Bernier grossly under represent the cost to taxpayers of a buyout scheme. And there will be compensation, as dairy farmers are no different from natives, Metis other groups that will demand payment.
    This problem of appearance, paying huge amounts to perceived well off farmers, is one reason governments of all stripes have shied away from approaching the problem. as it stands now SM costs government and taxpayers nothing in direct subsidies; the indirect subsidy is borne by consumers of the products. This in contrast to our competitors EU and most importantly US governments. US dairy farmers are subsidized directly by taxpayers in various schemes, amounts which dwarf anything Canada could contemplate.
    Merely tinkering with import quotas as proposed in the TPP deal, resulted in proposed payment to dairy farmers of $4.3B over 15 years; this is under review by Liberals now. A complete withdrawal would cost taxpayers much much more, with no guarantee that grocery prices would decline proportionally.
    Taxpayers committed to billions in compensation and consumers not seeing hoped for bargains, little wonder governments are not rushing to end SM.

  10. “Watto, provincial cartel, not federal.”
    I believe the rest of the cartels are provincial as well. It would only take one province to withdraw and break the system but no-one has blinked.

  11. That sounds like historical quota cost. Compensation should consist of a discounted valuation based on time and accrued benefit. Quota holders may not be happy about the compensation but the proponent will have discounted any political support. This is all unfortunately academic though as the Conservative progressives will likely settle on some Ontario-based squish as opposed to a principled Bernier.

  12. I think we all agree that SM has to go. But I agree with you regarding the cost of the buy-out. Given their cost, these are carried often on debt, and they are part of the farmer’s asset, so they can’t be bought out at a discount. I also agree with you that tinkering with export quotas is no answer either.

  14. The program would be phased out – spreading the cost over many years. It is the price of buying back an entitlement essentially – not the producer’s fault.
    Second, it is estimated that the annual imputed subsidy of the higher cost of the SM products is 15 to 20 billion ANNUALLY. Thus 30 billion to end the program is a relatively small price to pay.
    More serious is the issue of land consolidation in Que and elsewhere so that those who wish to remain in the business post SM can get to competitive economies of scale. The solution that I and others have proposed is permitting Agricultural REITs to be created.

  15. Hear hear hear! And then stores in Canada can finally get a good stock of French and Italian cheese which we can enjoy, at reasonable prices, rather than the junk that comes out of Quebec. (Often packaged in a disguised way to make it look like cheese from France)
    And I will finally be able to buy French butter…..

  16. Guns or butter ? Isn’t that the governments choice ? I guess the butter makers aren’t going to be very happy without their government subsidies and protection.

  17. Why would any “normal” person think that a compensation MUST be paid, the advantage that has been enjoyed by Farmers & the system has NO guarantee. Just allow Competition & let the Market
    sort the winners & losers…..Sorry, but that insider game is done.
    Watched a Senate hearing RE: Milk…. Canada has maintained a third world status that has resulted in Milk Processing plants that do NOT match the State of Art & competitive Marketing. They can only deal with Skim Milk as a marketed Powdered Product… Not capable of “additive” consumer trends…Old outdated Plants
    Why the Hell do Canadians think Taxpayers must pay compensation for every policy CHANGE?

  18. US milk in Idaho with 30% exchange: $3.25. That’s homogenized, too.
    CDN milk in Calgary: $6.50+.
    Why exactly do they hate poor people so much?

  19. Supply management is sacrosanct in Canada,it will NOT be touched by Bernier or any other PM who doesn’t want to lose the backing of the Laurentian Elites.
    This should not be the hill Bernier decides to die on,and he sure as hell WILL if he tries to take on one of the most well-entrenched power groups in Canada.
    Maybe,instead, he should promise to reform banking in Canada,and allow free competition from any bank in the world. He’d have about as much chance of that as he does with SM.
    Reforming SM in Canada is akin to reforming the Indian Act, we all know what should be done, but the more realistic among us know damned well nothing will happen except speeches.
    Bernier has never been to the Irving Lodge,has he?

  20. The only chance he has on this one – and it’s a slim chance – is to frame it as a poor consumer argument in as broad a base as possible: single mothers, seniors, low-incomers, working poor, “the marginalized”, etc. getting hosed.
    He will have everyone against him of course: Liberals, NDP, Greens, most Conservatives, Farm orgs, CBC, CTV, and all provincial governments.
    Too bad the guy has such a block-headed, Big Government, view on property rights.

  21. I just got the censorship clock on disqus for suggesting that sask had a socialist debt for decades. golly, who would have done that.

  22. Slap Shot: Why some sort of compensation will be paid: Federal government legislation created the CDC and 10 provincial marketing boards administer the shared quota system. Set up 45 years ago by Trudeau Liberals, it is illegal to market milk in Canada outside the system. The quotas are entrenched in the value of the business of dairy farming; 100s of $ millions have been borrowed from banks by mostly young farmers to enter the business; unless banks can be persuaded to forgo these liens, compensation will be necessary. No government will contemplate the full market value, over $25 B but some portion will have to be paid. Australia paid part of the amount, financed by a hefty consumer tax on milk of 11c/litre. Consumers demand lower milk prices, it would be a brave government that would suggest such a tax here.
    Sean: The comparison $6.50- $3.50 per unit is partially explained by the US price only representing the cash portion, not the hidden subsidy coming out of federal taxes. Various dairy subsidies are hidden in the mammoth Congressional Farm Bill and so consumers who pay taxes pay twice for the milk. The Canadian system is up front, no direct government subsidy.
    There are other factors like economy of scale operating, but the $3.50 price is well below Canadian cost of production. No scheme forced by any government is apt to come up with milk prices that low, producers are not going to invest millions in land, equipment and herd for a negative return. Since milk is very perishable, it is likely to be produced locally for the immediate future.
    Bernier deserves credit for beginning a discussion on the subject, and is brave to suggest it. It will be interesting to see some concrete ideas how to get off the tiger’s back.

  23. “The quotas are entrenched in the value of the business of dairy farming; 100s of $ millions have been borrowed from banks by mostly young farmers to enter the business; unless banks can be persuaded to forgo these liens, compensation will be necessary” Martin
    Nonsense.. The Business risk is a private issue that may (must) be Insured.. If Banks made loans without sufficient independent equity, other than the governmental mandate, they have assumed the Risk…Take out insurance, or risk losing everything…The privilege is not guaranteed.
    Why should Taxpayers play the role of Loyd’s of London…

  24. Geez, here in urban Toronto, milk has been $3.99 for four litres for the last five or six years.
    $6.50 in Calgary? Don’t they have dairy farms in Alberta?

  25. The leftists UN and its stance against animal agriculture over this Global Warming poppycock and forced veganism and PETA idiots screw the Stupid United Nations

  26. Sean … no, no, no … don’t you know how the game is played ? Just like with “green” energy, the Libs jack up the prices so that no poor people can afford it … but then … provide a 100% subsidy for the poor, i.e. FREE STUFF ! But the middle class wage earners get no such subsidy, and watch as their incomes get whittled down by the cost of basic needs. It is a tactic to make us ALL dependent on government’s … “generosity” …

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