The best thing I ever did for my kids’ education is getting her out of the Saskatoon Public School System(SPSS). She now attends a Charter School in the Phoenix area, and it truly is apples and oranges compared to the SPSS. She was an ‘A’ student her entire life until she came to Arizona.
In Arizona she got a swift kick in the butt her first year, especially in math and English. Now I’m happy to say she is achieving A’s again because of a lot of hard work. It was a “swift kick in the butt” because the students at her school are at least 1 year(probably 2 years) ahead of the kids in the same grade (8) in the SPSS, especially in Math and English. Furthermore, they use “traditional” teaching methods including phonics, word and sentence structures, essay writing for English. In math they must memorize math formulas and tables; and, they are not allowed to use calculators. I believe that using calculators in Saskatchewan elementary schools is gravely hurting the students, but I digress.
At my daughter’s school they don’t bother with the “new and improved” teaching methods, they regularly fail students, hand-out zeros, they shame students that under achieve. On top of that, they spend next to NO CLASS TIME on frivolous escapades such as art, music and so on. Those things you must do on your own time, by joining clubs before and after school( you must be passing all classes to qualify). Finally, they recognize achievement, as the top math student in 2011-12 received a full scholarship to ASU for her first year; a grade 8 student! All of that said, the most significant difference is they will kick a student out of the school if they cannot “keep up” to make room for someone who can. This is quite different from the SPSS’s ‘race to the bottom’.
I reckon if my kid returned to the SPSS she would have to be moved-up at least one or two grade levels. The SPSS is an embarrassment, and the expectations for the students is embarrassing. If your kids are in this school system, they are being robbed of a decent education. Get them out somehow! Unfortunately, I didn’t know how little was actually being taught to my kids in the SPSS relative to other students abroad; but I am glad to now see the truth of things. I suspect most kids graduating from the SPSS will not be able to compete abroad because of the poor quality of education they are receiving; and, my kid was at an ‘achieving’ school, which makes it all the more shocking.
Finally, I always was suspicious of the SPSS because of the unavoidable comparison between my kid’s academic education and her athletics. In past years I’ve said at sda that “the teachers at school never challenge my kid nearly as much as her softball and basketball coaches who demand perfection, and accept no excuses”. Well, I’ll tell you what; I can now say that my kid is challenged as much, if not more at the Ward Traditional Academy in Tempe than she is by her club team basketball coach. And that is saying quite a bit, considering the ramp-up in athletic competition is at least a factor of 2X more competitive than what she was used to in Saskatchewan.
I would think that such anecdotal evidence would be a great surprise to most Canadians. Most have collectively sat back with a certain smugness, thinking that our public education system is much better than stateside. Maybe in some cases it is, but clearly not all!
The charter sounds similar to school in California during the 60’s and 70’s. Then Wilson Riles was appointed State Superintendent of Schools and the ‘Race to the Bottom’ began. My stepsons high school textbooks in the late 70’s, early 80’s were infantile and revisionist with large font and large pictures. Compare that with my Depression-era Mom’s Fifth Grade McGuffey Reader. It would be suitable for a PHD these days – either country. Race to the bottom indeed.
I wouldn’t expect my kids to become Olympic caliber athletes through athletics at public school, so why would I expect them to become excellent at math or other academics relying on public school. Public school is a melting pot with regression to the mean. I think you have to accept that as a fact of life and adapt to the extent you have different ambitions for your kids.
I doubt if most people would care what happens in a public school if they weren’t forced to pay the bill.
TESTIFY Homez! You said it!
We should totally go shooting next time you’re in the desert. Talk to me at The Soap Box.
My kids both suffered at the hands of the public school system in Winnipeg.
The oldest recovered in university by taking math, science and commerce courses…she’s a good self starter.
The younger 21yo just two days ago came to me asking how he could retake math and english to upgrade his marks and skills. Seems now that 2 1/2 years out of high school he’s figured out that he did not learn anything. Ah well … I see now that he understands the problem and is willing to look after things that need to be looked after.
It would be a lovely solution if the average Canadian could afford private education for their kids. But most can’t — they’re stuck with radical State indoctrination.
And home-schooling isn’t an out either if the rest of the Provinces follow Ontario’s McGuinty example — home-schools are also subject to teaching their kids the indoctrination (for that matter so are Private schools — no exemptions, religious or otherwise).
It’s very important to crush the Liberals in the next election if Ontario parents want freedom to make educational choices again. Although McGuinty is resigning, the Libs are “polishing the turd” by shuffling around the same politicians — pretending to sell a “renewed party” in hopes that brain-dead Ontarians can be duped again to re-elect Libs to support the same anti-liberal anti-constitutional education measures.
Not to mention diverting attention from corruption on various other files, which at this point have reached criminal proportions. The mass resignations from McGuinty and his inner circle are to avoid jail. Likewise, I think the conflict over teachers’ wages was contrived to create a diversion from the more serious controversy in education: The Libs unyielding commitment to the radical indoctrination of children.
Fortunately for my niece she took the IB program in math and sciences at her high school in Calgary. Not only did it give her a jump start at university, but also kept her getting bored out of her mind in high school.
I guess my family was lucky. My girls were both streamed into the ‘gifted’ program in grade 4. As a result, they’ve been surrounded by intelligent, motivated kids (disproportionately Asian, of course), and teachers who I think were delighted to have a group of smart and engaged kids, so the teachers actually gave a damn.
Of course, my wife pushed them hard; she was a tiger mom long before the book. They both worked through the after-school KUMON program in math, which featured more drilling than a wildcatter and a dentist combined. They’re both doing great.
However, I feel for the kids who are a bit above average, but not quite good enough for the gifted streams. They’re doomed to sit in class, bored to tears, while the class grinds through at the pace of the worst student there. I spent most of my public school years in that state. But if the parents don’t have the money for private/alternative schools, what are they going to do?
Vouchers baby!
Never got much out of art, or music class. Sorry Mrs Cummings.
Once I hit puberty, well, then the music bug bit hard and deep.
Which reminds me of a good joke:
How do you get a guitarist to turn his volume down?
Put some sheet music in front of him…….
I attended private school. After grade 5 I wanted to enter the public school system. The equivalency test put me at the grade 10 level, but was put in grade 9 as I was 11 years old. I became an honour student.
Interestingly, there was no kindergarten/preschool in the private school. You started in grade 1 and you were there to learn. There was no messing around as there were consequences. Any other activities were after school. We never watched a movie in class.
On the other hand, when my daughter was in grade 6, I attended a parent/teacher interview and suggested that I was not very pleased with the instruction in the school as she did not seem prepared for grade 7. I learned that she had been with the most disruptive class the school had seen for 6 years and it was all the teachers could do to keep some kind of control. Being a small town there was no way of redistributing the students into other classes or another school to chose from. A teacher in grade 3 had tried some discipline and was rewarded with a lawsuit and a suspension(she was eventually cleared). She is now 22 and still has some difficulties as she essentially missed the basics. And I should note that she was not part of the disruptions, she just became frustrated and gave up.
A collegue had asked my opinion on public versus private. If you can afford it – stay far away from the public system. My other daughter succeeded in spite of the public system, but would have excelled in the private system.
The contents of my library reflects my lack of confidence in the ability of the public school system to adequately teach math and science. Since our goal is to have help the kids become gainfully employed and independent (aka. out of our house), learning the basics like multiplication tables is not optional. It is difficult to do more advanced math and science if you struggle with the easy stuff.
BTW, kids often have trouble with 6,7,8 and, occasionally, 9 times tables. We fix this with repetition but I recently found a neat way to check/remember these numbers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=twv-ynv_m9o
I have no doubt that the young lady’s education suffered in the public school system, and maybe the phonics worked well for her, but the blind faith that it is the only or even the best means for all children to learn to read simply mimics the smug satisfaction of the public schools. We know from the diversity of private education and home schooling that a variety of approaches “work” for different children, and, on balance, I’d prefer to trust responsible parents to make choices for their children’s education.
With regard to the memorization of mathematical formulae, is the argument that such memorization helps children understand mathematics or that understanding isn’t important?
I think the whole notion of automatically shipping kids to an education factory/prison in arbitrary age-cohorts for over a decade of their lives is one of the worst things to happen to the human race. Forget the political indoctrination. What affects does this have on us? I think mass factory-style education has changed us.
I’d just add that Canada has a huge advantage over America in that 1) we don’t have a federal department of education and 2) there are few or no strings attached to federal funds here. Our schools are mediocre but never seem to be as abysmal as those in America’s inner-cities.
“Featured Comment”!
Sheesh, had I known that, I’d have proof read the darn thing. ArrrgGgg!!!!!
Here is some more info:
1) they wear school uniforms, although my daughter despises it.
2) the letter grades are more difficult to attain.
A’s: 93%+
B’s: 85%+
C’s: 70%+
D’s: 50%+
E’s’: 49 and below
It seems they Wussied-out on the F grading though.
3) No partial marks.
“Featured Comment”!
Sheesh, had I known that, I’d have proof read the darn thing. ArrrgGgg!!!!!
Here is some more info:
1) they wear school uniforms, although my daughter despises it.
2) the letter grades are more difficult to attain.
A’s: 93%+
B’s: 85%+
C’s: 70%+
D’s: 50%+
E’s’: 49 and below
It seems they Wussied-out on the F grading though.
3) No partial marks.
Does memorizing a poem or passage in a book also lead to lack of understanding? No, it allows you to increase your understanding as you can think about it even when not in possession of the book.
Memorization is a workout for the brain, unlike relying on a calculator. Memorizing the multiplication tables is essential for when you move into algebra, geo-trig, calculus, physics and chemistry. Those without those skills struggle with calculations and word problems in my experience.
The move away from “kill and drill” (there are actually better, entertaining methods to learn multiplication tables) is misguided. You can learn both facts and critical thinking skills.
Also, I forgot,
4) an immense work load.
My daughter actually had to quit her softball evaluations and forgo sports for the duration of her first year to catch-up. Today, she is able to manage the work load and play club ball.
Robber
Its a charter school, so it might not be a fair comparison. I’ve heard a lot negative things about the Tempe Public School System, but heard amazing things about the Chandler Public School System; so, I think it’s going to vary. My intent was to demonstrate that ‘choice’ provides the best opportunity for all kids; and more importantly, that Saskatoon Public Schools are not cutting it! This school definitely isn’t for everyone, but there are choices, to support ‘diversity’.lol… I find that a little ironic.
Phantom
Will do.
Get rid of homework. It does not increase understanding and just makes life miserable.
I’ve always been saddened when explaining to prospective employees from Saskatchewan that they simply don’t meet the educational requirements for the salaries they’re looking for in comparison to their Albertan brethren. It must be a smoldering ember of the destruction left over from their socialist past that will unfortunately dog them for decades to come.
That said they are leaps and bounds ahead of the Third World immigrants that have been landing on Alberta’s doorstep in the last decade, and well above the rare Quebecer that ventures out to try and make a little money instead of waiting for a handout, they of course usually run home with their tail between thier legs within a few months. 😀
You seem like a good dad Indy.
Kids are natural learners.
School gets in the way.
Learning math or how to write is largely a matter of putting the breadcrumbs in front of them and letting them figure it out.
Lord preserve you if you ask my 11 year old about over pressure on his compressor. You are in for twenty minutes of professional grade tech talk.
How?
Well unlimited access to the ‘net helps. There are videos for that.
But math education at our house consists of real problems. Physical problems. Writing is about reading and, on occasion, a technical subject. The kid’s handwriting, I fear, is as bad as mine.
But his younger brother had a lovely hand.
Take away…homeschool, no matter how lax, builds people who have passion and knowledge. No bad things in a world where no one has the slightest clue what comes next.
Kids are natural learners.
School gets in the way.
Learning math or how to write is largely a matter of putting the breadcrumbs in front of them and letting them figure it out.
Lord preserve you if you ask my 11 year old about over pressure on his compressor. You are in for twenty minutes of professional grade tech talk.
How?
Well unlimited access to the ‘net helps. There are videos for that.
But math education at our house consists of real problems. Physical problems. Writing is about reading and, on occasion, a technical subject. The kid’s handwriting, I fear, is as bad as mine.
But his younger brother had a lovely hand.
Take away…homeschool, no matter how lax, builds people who have passion and knowledge. No bad things in a world where no one has the slightest clue what comes next.
In Canada, the best you can do is enrole the kids in an IB curriculum. That says it all. Its an internationally recognized and maintanined standard curriculum, not a public school teachers union agenda. Private schools are best for the support and focus they provide, but some of the better urban public schools have it as well.
Moved to inner city San Francisco in 1978 with 13 year old daughter. Thought the big city of cultural experiences would provide a better education. WRONG. I had had her in private Montessori school in the years before 2nd grade. When she outgrew Montessori she wanted 2nd grade public school–was behind in reading and never did catch up. As a single mom couldn’t afford the private schools anymore. Public junior high in SFO was an amazing experience. This was the school in the most expensive area of the city. Armed guards and locked doors to get into the counselor’s office. Girls “counselor” telling them that if they got pregnant (aged 12) it was ok because the state would give them money. When she went into high school in the city I endured two weeks of that nonsense and put her in boarding school in Ireland. To this day she tells me that that is what saved her life ! Of course I never did drugs and had an “ABSOLUTELY NO TOLERANCE” policy at home and I believed that helped. I think it must be difficult for parents who were stoners when they were young to put in place a respect for self discipline. With regard to those teachers and administrators who put “tolerance first” I say “screw tolerance!”
The sad part is that none of this is new. We are right back where education was 100 years ago. If you read literature from the turn of the 20th century, you will find the laments very familiar. This is so very tragic given the number of education “PhDs” we have now.
I personally believe the solution was discovered, used then lost. Apparently, those PhDs don’t do literature review very far back even though human nature doesn’t change that fast. This book from 1909 was, based on the number of citations that led me to it, something of a bible in education prior to 1930.
How to Study and Teaching How to Study (1909) by F. M. McMurry, Professor of Elementary Education, Teachers College, Columbia University (available scanned online via Google)
Think about it, teaching students how to do their job? That’s radical. So that when told to study they have some idea of how to do that other than just muscle through it, assuming they haven’t reached their limit. Studying smarter rather than harder.
Professor McMurry’s factors of studying are simple and logical. He makes excellent arguments that each are well within the natural capacity of students starting about third grade, assuming full development over their student careers. A review of the 8 factors reveals they are what universities now tout as critical thinking and fail to teach college students.
McMurry also articulates the problem of “school helplessness” I’ve seen mentioned still today. The earliest reference I’ve found is from 1886.
“In spite of the fact that schools exist for the sake of education, there is many a school whose pupils show a peculiar “school helplessness”; that is, they are capable of less initiative in connection with their school tasks than they commonly exhibit in the accomplishment of other tasks.”
Many years ago we enrolled our oldest sons in Saskatoon French Immersion. They were top of their class. We moved to Edmonton and again enrolled them in French immersion. We received a phone call from their teacher suggesting that we enroll them in the English program because they were so far behind in French they likely would never catch up.
In Canada, I’d say that Edmonton is the exception to the rule. Here we have choice – any kid can attend any school, regardless of where in the city they live. So that forced schools to start competing for students and almost every school came up with a special program to attract kids. No matter what your thing is (hockey, soccer, science, performing arts, languages, academic excellence, etc.), there is a school for you. And once schools have attracted you, they work really hard to keep you so the quality of education remains high. Not for nothing, but our students kick butt on academic tests, handily beating fellow Canadian students and ranking right up there internationally.
Only rich farmers send their kids to private schools. You are elitist and rich. Think about what you’ve said kate. 90% of the bloggers on here are not in you league. They need public schools.
American schools are failures compared to Canadian schools. The biggest failures to their people is America.
95% of canadians can afford to send their kids to a private school.You can’t really believe they can. How out of touch are you? 95% of the bloggers on here can barely afford rent and most don’t own a house. You give people on here false hope. I have a coworker who sent his son to private drug rehab. He’s a farmer. Farmers a rich and don’t seem to get it. The rest of us can’t afford this crap. No wonder you’re so damn stupid.