Notorious climate scientist Michael Mann is going to proceed with his lawsuit against National Review Online, Mark Steyn, and a few others. Steyn shares a few preliminary thoughts.
Here’s a prescient question: Does Prof. Mann fully understand the concept of “discovery” under American law? During this phase of his lawsuit he will be required to release any & all documents that the lawyers of the defendants demand of him. The public release of those will be beyond fascinating!
When I was in law school, the name for that process was “discovery”, not “deposition”.
This should be good!
“This should be good!”
Posted by: syncrodox at October 24, 2012 6:43 PM
Popcorn time!
This WILL be good.
IA-Jim,
The reason for the change is that so many lawyers felt more comfortable saying, “I wish to depose your client” rather than “I wish to discover your client”.
You’re welcome
Don’t forget the beer Mamba!
Either he is acting as his own lawyer,proving further what an a^%hole he is,OR the cAGW cult has found somebody to throw under the bus as they slowloy back off this scam.
Either way,discovery will be simply fascinating.
BTW…any lawyers out there in SDA land tell me when did it happen that you could sue in a real court(not HRC’s)for hurt feelings?
Michael Mann’s own arrogance will be his downfall. Pride has brought low many. We will see some interesting things at this trial. As well many betrayals. By smarter men who see the pit this guy is digging for them. Allies only stick around when winning is almost assured. Or they truly believe in their own ideals.
If a lot of fraud is reveled, it will end up with criminal charges.
Mann has no idea the lions den hes entering.
Especially the sort of Man hes facing.
Best line:
“So, in that sense, yes, indeed, he “was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.” Phew. For a moment, I was worried he might be exaggerating a bit — bending the curve upwards, so to speak.”
Jim, thank you for the clarification. My bad. I’ve now corrected the wording!
“Don’t forget the beer Mamba!”
Posted by: syncrodox at October 24, 2012 6:56 PM
Who can be bothered to pee that often? Wine, that’s where it’s at.
Oh. Mann will rue the day. He will rue it! Awesome.
Between this, the upcoming Arrested Development episodes & movie, and Chris Matthews on election night, I have found the courage to stave off death for a few weeks. Hurray!
Marcus Antonius:
And Caesar’s spirit, raging for revenge,
With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
Shall in these confines with a monarch’s voice
Cry “Havoc!” and let slip the dogs of war,
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial.
A favourite Shakespearean quote from my more than capable lawyer Richard Billington when presented with a frivolous lawsuit.
Hang in there Mamba, it looks to be getting better…seems Lord Monckton is hunting ManBearPig in Gibraltar.
http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/monckton-threatens-al-baby-gore-with-arrest/
I sense a new best seller in Mark’s future. This surely makes him the “happy warrior of the week”.
Michael Mann can sing along with this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMqc7PCJ-nc
It might wake him up to the fact that a lawsuit is not really the best idea at this time.
I remain more neutral on the results of Mike’s lawsuit. He has hired a reputable and successful law firm to represent him. He may be arrogant but he is not necessarily a fool and one must believe that he has been advised on the course of the lawsuit by his legal counsel. As with all of you, I await the next developments.
@Brian Mallard: “Cry “Havoc!” and let slip the dogs of war” ….. I like that quote!!
David in Michigan at October 24, 2012 7:59 PM
You make a good point but I wonder how Penn State plays into this, given their legal efforts have to be focused on the Sandusky fallout.
The discovery should make it obvious Mann is just trying to Hide the Decline of his reputation, career and future.
Couldn’t happen to a nicer Warmonger.
Keep in mind that the theory of anthropomorphic global warming is not what would be put on trial (should it ever come to that), but rather whether Steyn carelessly and unfairly besmirched Mann’s good name.
ANTHROPOGENIC global warming, not anthropomorphic global warming. Although it might be hockeymorphic global warming.
Ask Tim Ball how discovery goes when you’re in court after being sued by Piltdown Mann.
Any way Dr. Fruitfly might be called? Now THAT would be entertaining!
‘David in Michigan’ and ‘rabbit’:
I actually agree with you both completely. Though I’m a huge Mark Steyn fan, I was not pleased with his humorous inference about Mann. Michael Mann may be absolutely corrupt and the worst scientist on earth but it just isn’t right to make pedophile jokes about anyone.
On the facts alone, he probably would win the case but Steyn & NRO’s lawyers WILL start demanding an endless series of documents, several of which may cast serious doubt on the reputation and ethics of Penn State. I wouldn’t be surprised if Mann gets a late night phonecall from some pretty influential people, telling him that he must settle the case or resign immediately.
I honestly cannot believe that Mann is going through with this lawsuit. The courts, even British courts (see their verdict on Gore’s AIC), have not been as kind to C-AGWers as pal reviews and inquiries. Unless Mann has found a way to block all the scientific criticism of his work and shield his data from lawyers it doesn’t look like he has snowball chance in hell of winning. That’s why blogs entries like this are worrying:
Michael Mann Gets “Most Biased” Judge for Key US Global Warming Trial
“So is Mann’s legal team as crazy as he looks? Perhaps not.
“Somehow” Judge Natalia Combs Greene reputed to be one the most biased and incompetent judges in Washington has been appointed to handle this huge case. This comes as no surprise to hard-bitten and cynical legal analysts. Not only is she Greene by name she’s green to the core. But that’s not the worst of it. Every attorney and litigant who has expressed a public opinion on her has labeled Greene among the worst judges when it comes to such matters as strict adherence to discovery rules.”
http://johnosullivan.wordpress.com/2012/10/24/michael-mann-gets-most-biased-judge-for-key-us-global-warming-trial/
This lawsuit is a good thing. However, the outcome of a lawsuit can never be taken for granted. I think that Mark Steyn was careful to say that
it was not a matter of any sexual misconduct on the part of Michael Mann but a matter of corruption in the senior administration of Penn State.
Michael Mann Gets “Most Biased” Judge for Key US Global Warming Trial
http://johnosullivan.wordpress.com/2012/10/24/michael-mann-gets-most-biased-judge-for-key-us-global-warming-trial/
I disagree Robert. Steyn did not compare Mann to a pedo. He said that any university that would tolerate a pedo on their staff and skew the inquiry to cover for him would also be willing to do the same for a rogue climate scientist. The university’s main concern seems to its reputation and the almighty buck rather than ethics and integrity.
Given the reputation of the assigned judge, it looks like Steyn’s legal team will have to play the long game…set up the appeal.
“he will be required to release any & all documents that the lawyers of the defendants demand of him.”
He’ll lose “any & all documents” right next to where he lost his e-mails, the worlds temperature records and the medieval warm period.
“This lawsuit is a good thing. However, the outcome of a lawsuit can never be taken for granted. I think that Mark Steyn was careful to say that it was not a matter of any sexual misconduct on the part of Michael Mann but a matter of corruption in the senior administration of Penn State.” John Lewis
YES! Read & compare Mann’s statement of defense (Penn State) He said his work was incomplete & misused by others
Last I’d heard, Mann’s suit against Tim Ball came to a grinding halt after the discoveries, but I haven’t looked into it lately. Does anyone have an update?
The whole system is rotten to the core. Once Manns legal councel had secured one of the worst and greenest judges in DC, they decided to proceed. Incredible that this is the USA and not the USSR.
I for one, am still hoping this fraudster, along with his fellows, of extraodinary fraudsters are right, here in southern Alberta we have 1.5 feet of snow, here on Oct 24,we are rooting for you Mike and David and Al and all the rest of you charlatans, cause I hate cold and winter, please lie some more IPCC-IUD or whatever, make it warm up SCAMMERS! Jail is next for the fraud artists.
Given the reputation of the assigned judge, it looks like Steyn’s legal team will have to play the long game…set up the appeal.
“Does anyone have an update?”
Posted by: DrD at October 24, 2012 10:41 PM
The lawsuit has not proceeded. Tim Ball is Canadian and Mann can not secure the dumb as a stick judge he needs to win in Canada. Unlike judge Green in DC where by the looks of it the fix is already in.
This will ultimately end up in a higher court.
Another reason I side with Conrad Black. Liberals have devastated constitutional rights , as well as legal ones in America for 50 years.
Robert – please read the link. Steyn at no time suggested pedophilia on the part of Mann. He quoted another source who stated that Penn’s review process that cleared Mann of wrongdoing had also cleared Sandusky, and that Mann hadn’t abused children, but had abused data.
Dr. D – that’s why I mentioned the persecution/prosecution of Dr. Ball. It’s stalled, at least in part because Piltdown Mann isn’t allowing proper discovery.
Discovery will, as Justhinkin said, be simply fascinating.
We do not know if Michael Mann is a fool, but we do know he is unscrupulous as well as possibly being a fanatic, both character traits are bad for judicious decision making.
That said, regardless of the Green Judge bias, Americans can have jury trials even in civil cases.
Mark Steyn doesn’t seem too worried…
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/331592/when-nobel-fantasists-attack-mark-steyn#
@ Oz at October 25, 2012 12:01 AM
“Americans can have jury trials even in civil cases.”
When one considers the stakes here, I doubt if it would be too difficult to find a OJ Simpson jury.
It’s also worth noting that this, like the case against Dr. Ball and most cases brought by the Sierra Club, may be an attempt at lawfare. When those who bring the case know that they have deep pockets, the act of preparing a defence can take enough effort and resources (including time) on the part of the defendant that the act of defending yourself becomes a punishment unto itself. If you have questions about whether this method works, ask Ezra Levant.
If you have questions about whether this method works, ask Ezra Levant.
~C_Miner
Lawfare works with some and not others.
For example, it didn’t work with Kate, Ezra, and Mark Steyn last time.
It’s also worth noting that this will be a real court of law, not a CHRC kangaroo court, where the loser will have to pick up the expenses of the winner and Mark Steyn can call expert witnesses from the various fields of science who have been itching to get this issue into a U.S. court room.
Documents? You mean the ones I used when compiling data for my research and communications with other scientists?
Actually it is kind of a funny story…you see I had them all together in one box so I would be ready for this. Well, we got a new puppy and you know how puppies are…and…no… wait… I have a better one…see the Easter seals came by for donations and the box was right next to the one with the old clothes…let me tell you the climate sure changed at my house when I found out what happened! HaHaHa sure seems funny now!
From that John Sullivan article cited above, concerning the Tim Ball case:
“For more than a year now Mann has stubbornly refused to comply in supplying Ball’s attorney with copies of calculations and data for the “hockey stick” graph that Mann argues are protected by “proprietary rights” which allow him to keep them secret.”
Repeatability and transparency are at the core of the scientific method. Mann publishes a graph in a scientific paper, but refuses to disclose how he derived the graph? How is that science?