109 Replies to “63 Canadians reportedly killed in Iran”
I give this a 24 hour smell test.
Plane crashes just minutes after takeoff?
Engines working fine for a 1.3 mile climb?
Excellent weather?
With an engine on fire, the pilot should have been able to declare an emergency and flown several minutes and miles before losing computer control and crashing.
73 Canadians declared dead?
Will dear leader Justin fuss at the Iranians or send blankets?
I do mourn your loss of life
I wonder.
1. All the news is coming from Team Muh Russia; how much can be trusted?
2. Going by the available facts, that must be treated as suspect… I am going to guess suicide bomber or cargo bomb.
Indisputably, this happened incredibly fast. Pilot did not declare emergency? Whatever happened, killed the pilot immediately, and pilot did not see it coming. Not seeing it coming rules out missle. Plane on fire in air suggests explosion. Explosion suggests suicide or suitcase bomb.
Who bombs civilian flights? Well, Iranian backed terrorists, Saudi backed terrorists, Sikh terrorists, Tamil terrorists, communist terrorists, …
It was a Ukranian flight, so Crimea comes to mind. Lots of Canadians on board, so FLQ comes to mind, and Lockerbie. No claims of responsibility, so actual accident comes to mind…
Oh…
Ukraine… Biden… Clinton Foundation… Obama, pallets of cash to Iran…
Is it possible, an Arkancide favor was called in? Over to Conservative Treehouse; EXACTLY who was on, or supposed to be on, or could have been on, that flight?
Is this what a shit storm looks like, with nobody knowing anything and all speculation from everyone?
Even though the passengers were called Britons and Canadians … they were pretty much all Iranians.
There will be more on this later I would think. It takes time to coordinate international lying.
I’ll go with Occam’s Razor on this. It appears most likely it was shot down. The pilot would not likely see a missile coming (the crew of the Malaysian airline shot down over the Ukraine didn’t see the missile or didn’t have enough time to react). One of the photos posted shows several holes that appear to be puncturing the fuselage of the plane (although it’s difficult to see in detail). This is consistent with the Malaysian Airline crash. Of course, the biggest red flag is the Iranian’s refusal to turn over the black boxes.
The 737 has an excellent safety record (the 737 Max excepted) – that and witnesses reported seeing flames from the jet as it went down.
…the news is coming from Team Muh Russia; how much can be trusted?
Unfortunately much more than the western media these days. Shame.
And in the case of an engine fire, ~the first thing the co-pilot does is declare an emergency.
On the radios.
Which are all still working. Strange nobody heard that radio call.
And while the cojo is doing that, the pilot is getting that sucka’ back on the ground as fast as humanly possible – which in this case, he did apparently; although I’m pretty sure there’s no “What to do when you’re falling out of the sky in flaming chunks” section in the emergency instructions for flying the Boeing 737.
Although arguably, maybe there should be for the MAX.
First job of both pilots is to fly the plane. Put out the fire if you can, then worry about the radio.
If they were hit by a missile, it may have taken out the flight controls, so they had no chance.
Flown a few aircraft in my 60 + years on the earth.
The radio call is high priority – get a runway cleared and the firetrucks and rescue vehicles on the way. The critical thing, demonstrated countless times in large aircraft fires, is to get the people off – to do that you must get on the ground NOW, get the inflatable ramps out and get the passengers moving. Modern airliners are not quite as bad as the older ones, they now burn interior materials in laboratories to see if they produce toxic smoke – but I read of a recent fire-onboard case where the pilots, due to inexperience I suspect, took the time to taxi off the runway to a clear spot – and during the delay everybody in the back died of toxic smoke inhalation.
You’re right, “aviate – navigate – communicate”, and if it takes two to wrestle with the controls, both will be doing it – but the transmit switch is on the yoke, and the call is real quick to make – “Tower this is USAir Flight Whatever, engine fire we’re declaring an emergency.” The tower leaps (and I do mean, “leaps”) into action; they practice situations like this frequently. They radio back “What are your intentions?” and even if they don’t hear from the cockpit again, they do everything they can to prepare; clear a runway, stand-up the firefighters, call-out the ambulances, pass warnings to hospitals and police forces for miles around to prepare to respond to a potential mass casualty scenario, no-duff; and everything they do, even if the aircraft is no longer answering, they radio back to the aircraft. “USAir Whatever, all runways are clear – we hold you radar, you’re cleared straight-in landing to any runway you can make, ambulances and fire fighters standing by – please advise?”
A good one to watch for this is the youtube video of Sully – straight out on the radio to give Tower a heads-up. They cleared him to any runway, gave him directions to every other airport in the vicinity and arranged what rescue forces they could for the Hudson River. And there are two good (?) crashes to look-at as well: Air France in the gully at Toronto Pearson in which nobody died, and Asiana at San Francisco in which only three died (still horrible but almost everybody survived). Also, the DC-10 crash in Sioux City. This is an interesting case, in that the local Emergency Measures supervisor looked at a high-level chart and noticed that a lot of transcontinental airways went over Sioux City; he said to himself, said he, “Eventually we’re going to have something go wrong on a high-level flight and they’re going to crash here.” He stood-up a full-dress rehearsal from all the counties around; they were furious at the expense and inconvenience and demanded he be fired. Two years later when the DC-10 crashed, everything clicked into place, everybody knew what to do and he was a hero.
I was wondering that. I’d like to see the passenger manifest. I know there is a Trudeau brother in Iran. I doubt he’d fly such a pedestrian airline.
How many of everyone else was using Canadian passports?
Initial media reports say the Canafians are nearly all “Iranian-Canadians”, since the Ukrainian airline is thechespest fare from Iran to Toronto. The report says the Iranian-Canadian community is “very large”.
“very large” indeed. They make up 1/3 of the population in many suburbs of Trudopia.
I have two questions. Why does Ukraine fly to Iran. Maybe Trump can look into this. And most importantly why are all these so called Canadians flying to and from Iran. No word on whether Blackie’s brother was on the flight.
My guess would be they are/were Canadians of convenience travelling home for a visit or business.
But, of course.
Three Iranian-Canadians were featured in the DM article; two were University professors (husband and wife) in Edmonton,and the other was a dentist in Aurora Ontario. The professors leave two young children orphaned.
We DO have immigration from the ME,and the three new Canadians featured are exactly the type we want to immigrate here, educated and useful. These people were successful Canadians, not Toronto parading jihadists, we are poorer for their loss.
The Brits featured included a businessman and an engineer, again exactly the type of person we want as immigrants. Some good people lost their lives in this, including the Ukrainian flight crew.
If the “investigation” has any integrity at all,which I doubt, we might find some concrete evidence.
don, any Iranians I’v ever dealt with were good people.
They are mostly good people. This issue is the shear numbers arriving. They mostly cluster together in large numbers and many don’t have any interest in learning the lingua franca.
Not an engine failure, even catastrophic main fan blade failures are designed to be contained, and even if it wasn’t contained the result would not be an immediate high angle impact with no communication.
Big bomb on board or large warhead anti-aircraft missile.
And why are the Russian “experts” quoted saying such stupid things like ‘overloading’ the engine or drone strike?
The article in the daily mail showed a picture of holes in the fuselage that look a lot like shrapnel??
A compressor hub fragmenting could send dozens of blades flying out at high speed…vertical slices into the fuselage.
There’s been a couple examples in the last few years, fortunately those were on run up to takeoff.
I saw the hi-res version of that photo. They were not holes but mostly rocks and other tiny bits of metal lying on top of the sheet metal.
If Iran did destroy that aircraft then it is well past time that Iran ceases to exist. America has been at war with Iran since 1979. If America had destroyed the mullahs and their ability to make war at that point in time the world and the middle east would be a better place.
old white, american law forbids they take out the leaders of any country
That’s why they didn’t carpet bomb Berlin in the war right?
Mark, try context you idiot lefty, WW2 was before that law was passed
Of course they can. What law would prevent you from killing someone who was a direct threat to your life?
What were 68 “Canadians” doing in Iran?
Or, maybe the more appropriate question would be… What were 68 “Iranians” doing with Canadian passports?
If there were 68 on the flight how many more are in Iran? Hundreds? Thousands?
They weren’t real Canadians. They were Iranian/Muslims. Part of the advanced invasion of stupid, hapless Canada … you know the country run by a boy-idiot-commie and his gaggle of Eastern Canadian scum.
J-stupid, there are many Iranian christians here in canada
Getting fresh orders for jihad in Canada.
Joseph,they were probably visiting family,just like anyone else who immigrated here.
UIA statement on crash. Stay tuned for passenger list.
Coming in 3,2,1… blame Donald Trump,
Iran says it’s a false flag
the fake media echoes Iran
the fake media with footage of protestors in the street yelling death to America
World War III, World War III, World War III… ad infinitum
It will be difficult to find out the actual facts. As the posted report says, Iran is refusing to turn over the black boxes. And the paid-and-bought-for Canadian media will follow whatever Justin Trudeau wants them to believe. My feeling is that the PMO will want to play this airline crash down. Our media cartel might blame Trump, though.
And Donald Trump personally planted the bomb on that plane – the Iranians have film of him doing it.
Just ask them.
Is it not stupidity to fly a passenger airplane in a war\hot zone?
Wth?
Well, I’d have thought so: if it were me and I was launching a ballistic missile attack against the United States, I’d be telling my people to get the hell out of the way. The whole thing has a whiff of John Cleese-ian Monty Phython comedic cluelessness about it.
In respect of the 50+ who died in the stampede in Suleimani’s hometown, Dr. D. raised the issue of “own goal” in the previous Iran thread. If this turns out to be an anti-aircraft mistake, that’d be another own goal.
Couple that with the inability to hit a target with 22 ballistic missiles, and pretty soon is starts to look like you don’t know what you’re doing (the gang who couldn’t shoot straight). That sense taking hold will be deadly to the regime and to its alliances throughout the region — not to mention to the Democrat critics of President Trump.
More likely, purely for domestic consumption. Especially when you consider the claims of many American dead they are making when the real total is zero.
This way, it’s a domestic propaganda victory, without risking massive retaliation. I wouldn’t mind betting that the US was even given advanced warning and knew of the targeting, which would explain Trump’s very constrained response.
They were most likely all Muslims so they actually did the world a favor. Worst case is the price of falafels and bullet-proof vests go up in Torontostan.
In Iranian minds,,, they weren’t likely “the right kinda” Muslims.
Russian missiles are very effective in shooting down airliners.
I for one will not miss these “Canadians”. Anyone stupid enough to be Iran deserves what they get.
From 1938 – “67 Canadians visiting their German relatives in The Third Reich have been reported dead after their Juncker
fell from the sky near Magdeburg.”
Made this up but you get the idea
Because Germans immigratants are just like Iranian ones?
The passenger list has been released. Hard to pick out the Canadians
“Hard to pick out the Canadians”
No it isn’t. They are the ones with the first or last name being combinations of Mohammed and Ali.
That’s no engine fire. The entire wing was on fire – or what was left of it.
Seems that Iran has capped off an embarrassing day by having one of their brightest at an anti-air missile site shoot down a civilian airliner.
If not for this, they might have got through unscathed in yesterday’s face-saving PR exercise of blasting of some dirt adjacent to a couple of US installations. Not now.
They’ve just handed the US and the international community fresh evidence to thrash the mullahs with. Possibly the top self-own of 2020.
And with 70+ Canadians on that flight, they’ve also handed our pansy emoter-in-chief new material to wrinkle his eyebrows at as he sheds an actor’s tear. The dunce in Ottawa will be off to shop for new socks for the occasion.
As we speak,his pedoplekind are probably challenging the Ayatollah to a native costume dance-off.
Let’s hope his sternly worded letter doesn’t upset the crazies and he doesn’t lisp us into a war.
With only 5000 boots on the ground and no way to get them to Iran, chances are the hundreds of thousands, millions? of hyphenated Iranian-Canadians could take the country over before China could do anything about it.
Luckily, Canadians won’t have to learn Persian. Thanks yanks.
Which is a good thing seeing how well the learn French thing has gone.
CBC should soon have all kinds of reports out thanking Trump and the USA for saving defenceless Canada once again.
Has our leader made any comment on any of this? The Americans took out buddy on the weekend – guess word hasn’t reached the government yet. Bongo’s beard has been in Alberta the last coupla days. She’s apparently 2IC. Wonder why she hasn’t noticed what is going on?
Iran is one or the most corrupt countries in the world. Ukraine is it’s equal…..just sayin’. This has ruskie fingerprints all over it
The holes in the fuselage all seem to be entry holes.
The Iranians refuse to turn over the ‘black box’?
C’mon bong man step up and be a world leader. Condemn this action and demand it be released to determine what happened.
Trudeau is a coward.
It’s not Boeing that’s asking for the black box. It’s the Ukrainian civil aviation authority that’s asking for them as it’s their property.
Let’s forget about Trudeau, he is useless, his script writer(s) will be going over his lines with him and Freeland will be briefed on it so she can appear to know what the hell is going on.
Tehran airport must be ringed with anti-air missile sites and close-in air defence anti-missile systems. All it would take is one genius to push the wrong button. The fuselage looks like it was hit by multiple large calibre rounds, among other things.
ls this Iran’s equivalent of what happened with the USS Vincennes in 1988?
I remember that. Very good question?
Of course, it could be also Iran’s Lockerbie.
Heard on CTV–
Some of the people who died in plane crash are Iranian Canadians from Edmonton Alberta. No names, no numbers yet.
See tweet from F.P. Champagne below:
From Canadian Foreign Minister:
“Some of the people who died in plane crash are Iranian Canadians from Edmonton Alberta. ”
Oh great. The far-left progressive libtard mayor of Edmonton will also have an authentic opportunity to cry in public. Perhaps the dunce from Ottawa will also show up in the coming days so they can hold a joint presser – then go off to a pub and compare beards.
“Iran threatens to expose Western diplomats who took bribes to create Iran deal”
PS752 is making more sense the more time passes. It was definitely about someone or something on that plane. Perhaps someone trying to travel outside official channels, using a fake name…
Just another incident where all planes must have technical communication with aircraft monitoring sites. Why do we in this day and age still rely on an onboard red box to provide information that could be provided in real time so easily? Trump is responsible in 3, 2, 1…
You know what? That’s the first time I’ve heard of this, and I can’t believe I never thought of it before. We have “effectively” real-time tracking of aircraft via transponder signal, and we can get decent WiFi on a trans-Pacific flight, so there’s literally no technological reason why airlines (or militaries) can’t have real-time (encrypted, even) telemetry of their equipment, anytime, anywhere. The box system should be solely used for backup at this point.
If you think back to that Malaysian flight that vanished, you may remember that it had in-flight telemetry via satellite back to the plane maker, so they do have at least some information. What that won’t contain is precise millisecond by millisecond control status information and most importantly cockpit voice recordings.
However, it seems quite feasible to me to have an emergency data dump take place as soon as the flight computers detect any abnormality, just try to transfer as much info as possible, including voice recordings.
You would still need the traditional recorders for the case where there is not enough time to make the emergency data dump or satellite communications are lost, for whatever reason (e.g. power loss).
It’s just a technical problem. In-flight telemetry transfer is exactly what you design to be, including making it impossible for flight crew (or others) to tamper with the system. Transfer rate is the only limitation, provided there’s a connection, and it’s not even that much of a problem if all you send is a little bit at a time. Black boxes don’t contain the entire flight log, but telemetry transfer could. An emergency dump is exactly where a transfer rate bottleneck would occur, and you’re hosed if you don’t have a functional connection anyway. If we’re worried in an on-going way about black-box loss (or aircraft going missing for months on end), reliance on the black boxes should end, except as the “on-site” backup.
I was thinking along the lines of a dedicated, normally unused transponder. With high bandwidth available for emergency dumps.
I’m no expert, but doing some quick research, it seems that aircraft transponders talk only to radar systems and work in sub-millisecond bursts of up to 112 bits in length. I don’t think they’d be suitable for the purpose. They also use two frequencies only, both around 1GHz, which might not be optimal, especially given the number of likely users in that range. Something scalable enough to handle all the thousands of airborne aircraft sending data all the time would be necessary. Storage of the data ground-side is trivial, and even on the aircraft.
It’s not an easily-solvable problem, but it is solvable, provided there’s a will to do so.
It depends on the age of the plane. It may have been built before in-flight reporting was included, and then would the Ukrainian airline have spent the money to get it retro-fitted? I’ve read it was a 737, but not a 737Max so that dates it a bit.
Supposedly the plane is only 4 years old so this type of recording should be in place. How many millions were spent on the Malaysian flight to try to locate it. People use their phones during the flights so a dedicated information and cockpit voices should be easily done.
737-800, a good plane with excellent track record
Two of those photos on the daily Mail site show the aircraft skin perforated from the outside in. The lighting in the lower photo graphically highlights that. Now, it is possible that a catastrophic failure of a turbine can cause this. But, such catastrophic turbine failures are very rare. Such an event has the potential to fatally damage the flight control surfaces on the same wing. So, it’s not out of the realm of possibility that a an aircraft that can climb out and cruise on one engine, with a full fuel and passenger load, might have fallen out of the sky due to an engine failure. It just doesn’t seem likely.
You can find the hi-res versions of these photos now. They are not holes. They are rocks and other bits lying on top of the sheet metal skin. I’m more inclined to believe it was a missile strike.
This certainly beats the dailymail, with its imputations that Iranian authorities are refusing to hand the flight recorders to Boeing.
As one of the commenters noted:
// News reports that Iran refuses to give recorders to Boeing – I do not remember hearing of the airframe manufacturer being the one where the country in which the crash occurred being the one to analyze. Usually it is done by expert analysts like BEA. If they have difficulty reading the data, they seek assistance of the recorder manufacturer, not airframe supplier //
Boeing will apparently part of the investigation of the pieces, since they put them together.
// Investigation will be conducted with the involvement of the aviation authorities of Ukraine, Iran, representatives of the Boeing manufacturer, the airline, and the National Bureau of Air Accidents Investigation of Ukraine. The airline will inform about the progress of the investigation and the causes of the tragic event as soon as they are identified. //
Possibly the above-mentioned BEA will be involved:
// The French agency, based in the Paris suburb of Le Bourget, has extensive experience in investigating crashes and other incidents involving commercial flights. The BEA notably helps with investigations in countries without the resources or equipment to analyse the flight recorders, often called the black boxes. //
27 of the 63 Canadians are from Edmonton. They include Iranian-Canadians & International Students. Owing to the large number of Ukrainians in the West there are flights which allow Iranians to avoid American connections.
“27 of the deceased”
As for Trudeau’s vowing to get answers, that probably means he will ask someone with connections.
You are right, dizzy, he’s waiting for his brother to brief him on what the Iranian regime wants him to say.
Go away, leftist quisling.
Has Blackie blamed Harper yet??
So the sock monkey now wants answers.
Which would mean an investigation.
Investigations allow the government to lower the cone of silence on any new information regarding who was on the plane and why they would be in Iran.
Let’s digress.
If you are an Iranian currently living in a Canada it would be for one of the following reasons.
Either you came in as a refugee or you did not.
If you arrived as a refugee then as a qualifier to said status your life would be in danger if you choose to return, particularly due to the lack of diplomatic relations between Canada and Iran.
That leaves immigrants with dual citizenship that have the ability to enter and leave Iran with their blessing.
I’m going to leave that out there.
Trudeau has vowed to get answers? We’ll have them right after the pipelines he vowed to get built are done.
The extensive debris field suggests an airborne percussive event.
Whether the cause was internal or external is the compelling question…
Either way – Something bad happened…
I worked with an Iranian-Canadian. He has two passports. Visits homeland.
One passport for North America, one for homeland.
And that, is the crux of the situation.
Pick one or the other, you don’t get to keep both.
There is no loyalty, only bought, fake allegiances, used for convenience, totally worthless.
Two passports sure didn’t help Scheer in the Federal election.
and I have also applied for a second passport, so what???
Air Canada alters routes over the Middle East – to prevent “mechanical” failure I guess.
I have watched DOZENS of episodes of ‘Mayday’.
even sent a letter of support to the NTSB folks lamenting the fact they have to dig thru such tragic scenes as a plane crash to do their work but do so in the interests of future safety.
it is exceptionally and uniquely unusual for ANY authority to thumb their nose at those who need the vital evidence contained in the black boxes.
the first friggin thing they look for even before the fires are out are the black boxes.
but remember, we are dealing with a religion of violence, hate and death.
University professors among the Canadian dead. Why doesn’t that surprise me.
It’s a good start.
Among the dead was a muslim student at Guelph university who was working on whiny indian issues. I guess we can expect a sixty million dollar ten year inquiry into white colonialism causing her death. Get out the feathers, drums, and chants to the sacred tree frog.
& you know well, that fancy pants Trudeau is gonna blame Trump!
Reading through the list of dead – so many kids that appear to have been travelling with parents or relatives. Everyones worst nightmare.
I love how the Daily Mail slyly suggests it was a BOEING Aircraft Technical Failure along with so many other BOEING Aircraft issues. Most of which, if you can read between the lines were Human Error not “technical” & with said “humans” not originating as Euro Centrics either… Ho Lee Fuk
Wei Too Lo
…….Comes to mind…in most of those other instances and typical Anti Capitalist BS from another English RAG.
This one though..??
ALL the newer twin engined Aircraft are capable of surviving 1 Engine Failure. It takes massive force to actually dislodge a complete engine from a wing….I’m betting a bomb or errant near miss by a missle. That plane was a lit meteorite as it fell.
RIP to those that perished…
you invoke my name???
The source, who declined to be identified, said the agencies believed the Boeing 737 plane suffered a [CATASTROPHIC EXPLOSIVE] technical malfunction just after a normal takeoff and ascent to altitude.
Both political panels at Blackie’s CBC and CTV had long discussions on how evil Trump is. They also agreed that Blackie was wonderful when he briefly came out of hiding with his beard today, to express his sadness. Blackie is wonderful. And they agreed that Canada should do nothing if evidence comes out that Iran shot down the plane. In fact we should reopen Canada’s embassy and strengthen ties with Iran.
Here are the 12 “jihadis” from B.C. killed in this tragedy. Professionals,students, a family of three, engineer, two Doctors……….
This is a fucking tragedy for their families and Canada.
The first part of the lie is, “they wont release the black box.” This buys time and sets the table for the lies that are required to cover up a missile attack. Did they ever establish who shot down the passenger jet in the Ukraine? I know it was the ruskies but was it ever confirmed?
I’m thinking putin. He likes meddling and here he gets a freebie – plus the Ukes get a message. Strange silence from Prime Minister freeland.
Wait a few days before one gets insight from people who actually know what they are talking about.
That’s what we in the trade call an “indicator”. This aircraft did not crash due to a mechanical malfunction, but likely due to the use of an anti-aircraft missile. The evidence is there in the pictures of the nose assembly, where the sensors and flight controls are located. The warhead is behind that part with the airfoils.
This aircraft was deliberately shot down. All that remains is to determine how/why. Two major lines of reasoning would be that it was due to the air defense battery making a mistake, or that the Iranians were hoping to have the aircraft “shot down” during an American attack. It could well be that American assets were indeed in the air, or engaged in ECM activity spoofing the air defense systems, but there’s been no report of US activity over Teheran last night.
It was either accidental, or the Iranians wanted something to hang around the neck of the US, to be able to claim that the aircraft was shot down by US forces in the course of an attack on Teheran.
Given that the air traffic control people should have known that they were giving the OK to takeoff and departure? Either it is gross incompetence, or deliberate. My vote is for “deliberate”, as the Iranians are not complete idiots. The Islamic Republic of Iran Air Defense Force has a fairly good reputation for professionalism, and given that they’re not the usual inept Arab forces, I doubt this was “accidental”.
The victims were murdered, in short. Deliberately.
Kirk,
You wrote: “Y’all appear to have missed this”
Not really, see abtrapper’s post @ 9:15 pm above.
You mean to say that a warhead can be seen in the wreckage? Really? Doesn’t a warhead have to explode into a million tiny bits to properly do its destructive job?
I commented on this story that appeared in the National Post. An alleged ”conservative” news paper. My comment was deleted for allegedly using inappropriate language.
This is my commnet. ” I don’t believe this is an accident. The plane ignited in flight. I believe it was struck by a surface to air missile or anti aircraft firearms. A cowardly act by terrorists against persons and nations who had nothing to do with the General’s death. I further believe that very shortly, the Americans will retribute, not only for this tragedy, but also for the missle attacks that they endured last night. As for Trudeau and the Liberals, their reaction to this will be the same as always. They’ll explain it away and do nothing.”
I give this a 24 hour smell test.
Plane crashes just minutes after takeoff?
Engines working fine for a 1.3 mile climb?
Excellent weather?
With an engine on fire, the pilot should have been able to declare an emergency and flown several minutes and miles before losing computer control and crashing.
73 Canadians declared dead?
Will dear leader Justin fuss at the Iranians or send blankets?
I do mourn your loss of life
I wonder.
1. All the news is coming from Team Muh Russia; how much can be trusted?
2. Going by the available facts, that must be treated as suspect… I am going to guess suicide bomber or cargo bomb.
Indisputably, this happened incredibly fast. Pilot did not declare emergency? Whatever happened, killed the pilot immediately, and pilot did not see it coming. Not seeing it coming rules out missle. Plane on fire in air suggests explosion. Explosion suggests suicide or suitcase bomb.
Who bombs civilian flights? Well, Iranian backed terrorists, Saudi backed terrorists, Sikh terrorists, Tamil terrorists, communist terrorists, …
It was a Ukranian flight, so Crimea comes to mind. Lots of Canadians on board, so FLQ comes to mind, and Lockerbie. No claims of responsibility, so actual accident comes to mind…
Oh…
Ukraine… Biden… Clinton Foundation… Obama, pallets of cash to Iran…
Is it possible, an Arkancide favor was called in? Over to Conservative Treehouse; EXACTLY who was on, or supposed to be on, or could have been on, that flight?
Is this what a shit storm looks like, with nobody knowing anything and all speculation from everyone?
Passenger manifest I found on Twitter
https://twitter.com/Aviation_NewsTW/status/1214881250093125632?s=09
Even though the passengers were called Britons and Canadians … they were pretty much all Iranians.
There will be more on this later I would think. It takes time to coordinate international lying.
I’ll go with Occam’s Razor on this. It appears most likely it was shot down. The pilot would not likely see a missile coming (the crew of the Malaysian airline shot down over the Ukraine didn’t see the missile or didn’t have enough time to react). One of the photos posted shows several holes that appear to be puncturing the fuselage of the plane (although it’s difficult to see in detail). This is consistent with the Malaysian Airline crash. Of course, the biggest red flag is the Iranian’s refusal to turn over the black boxes.
The 737 has an excellent safety record (the 737 Max excepted) – that and witnesses reported seeing flames from the jet as it went down.
…the news is coming from Team Muh Russia; how much can be trusted?
Unfortunately much more than the western media these days. Shame.
And in the case of an engine fire, ~the first thing the co-pilot does is declare an emergency.
On the radios.
Which are all still working. Strange nobody heard that radio call.
And while the cojo is doing that, the pilot is getting that sucka’ back on the ground as fast as humanly possible – which in this case, he did apparently; although I’m pretty sure there’s no “What to do when you’re falling out of the sky in flaming chunks” section in the emergency instructions for flying the Boeing 737.
Although arguably, maybe there should be for the MAX.
First job of both pilots is to fly the plane. Put out the fire if you can, then worry about the radio.
If they were hit by a missile, it may have taken out the flight controls, so they had no chance.
Flown a few aircraft in my 60 + years on the earth.
The radio call is high priority – get a runway cleared and the firetrucks and rescue vehicles on the way. The critical thing, demonstrated countless times in large aircraft fires, is to get the people off – to do that you must get on the ground NOW, get the inflatable ramps out and get the passengers moving. Modern airliners are not quite as bad as the older ones, they now burn interior materials in laboratories to see if they produce toxic smoke – but I read of a recent fire-onboard case where the pilots, due to inexperience I suspect, took the time to taxi off the runway to a clear spot – and during the delay everybody in the back died of toxic smoke inhalation.
You’re right, “aviate – navigate – communicate”, and if it takes two to wrestle with the controls, both will be doing it – but the transmit switch is on the yoke, and the call is real quick to make – “Tower this is USAir Flight Whatever, engine fire we’re declaring an emergency.” The tower leaps (and I do mean, “leaps”) into action; they practice situations like this frequently. They radio back “What are your intentions?” and even if they don’t hear from the cockpit again, they do everything they can to prepare; clear a runway, stand-up the firefighters, call-out the ambulances, pass warnings to hospitals and police forces for miles around to prepare to respond to a potential mass casualty scenario, no-duff; and everything they do, even if the aircraft is no longer answering, they radio back to the aircraft. “USAir Whatever, all runways are clear – we hold you radar, you’re cleared straight-in landing to any runway you can make, ambulances and fire fighters standing by – please advise?”
A good one to watch for this is the youtube video of Sully – straight out on the radio to give Tower a heads-up. They cleared him to any runway, gave him directions to every other airport in the vicinity and arranged what rescue forces they could for the Hudson River. And there are two good (?) crashes to look-at as well: Air France in the gully at Toronto Pearson in which nobody died, and Asiana at San Francisco in which only three died (still horrible but almost everybody survived). Also, the DC-10 crash in Sioux City. This is an interesting case, in that the local Emergency Measures supervisor looked at a high-level chart and noticed that a lot of transcontinental airways went over Sioux City; he said to himself, said he, “Eventually we’re going to have something go wrong on a high-level flight and they’re going to crash here.” He stood-up a full-dress rehearsal from all the counties around; they were furious at the expense and inconvenience and demanded he be fired. Two years later when the DC-10 crashed, everything clicked into place, everybody knew what to do and he was a hero.
Passenger list from UIA here: https://www.flyuia.com/uk/en/news/2020/flight-ps752-passenger-list
These are prob Trudeau “Canadians” anyways.
I was wondering that. I’d like to see the passenger manifest. I know there is a Trudeau brother in Iran. I doubt he’d fly such a pedestrian airline.
How many of everyone else was using Canadian passports?
Initial media reports say the Canafians are nearly all “Iranian-Canadians”, since the Ukrainian airline is thechespest fare from Iran to Toronto. The report says the Iranian-Canadian community is “very large”.
“very large” indeed. They make up 1/3 of the population in many suburbs of Trudopia.
I have two questions. Why does Ukraine fly to Iran. Maybe Trump can look into this. And most importantly why are all these so called Canadians flying to and from Iran. No word on whether Blackie’s brother was on the flight.
My guess would be they are/were Canadians of convenience travelling home for a visit or business.
But, of course.
Three Iranian-Canadians were featured in the DM article; two were University professors (husband and wife) in Edmonton,and the other was a dentist in Aurora Ontario. The professors leave two young children orphaned.
We DO have immigration from the ME,and the three new Canadians featured are exactly the type we want to immigrate here, educated and useful. These people were successful Canadians, not Toronto parading jihadists, we are poorer for their loss.
The Brits featured included a businessman and an engineer, again exactly the type of person we want as immigrants. Some good people lost their lives in this, including the Ukrainian flight crew.
If the “investigation” has any integrity at all,which I doubt, we might find some concrete evidence.
don, any Iranians I’v ever dealt with were good people.
They are mostly good people. This issue is the shear numbers arriving. They mostly cluster together in large numbers and many don’t have any interest in learning the lingua franca.
Our state broadcaster is reporting 63 ‘Canadians’
Best non-biased site
http://avherald.com/h?article=4d1aea51&opt=0
Not an engine failure, even catastrophic main fan blade failures are designed to be contained, and even if it wasn’t contained the result would not be an immediate high angle impact with no communication.
Big bomb on board or large warhead anti-aircraft missile.
And why are the Russian “experts” quoted saying such stupid things like ‘overloading’ the engine or drone strike?
The article in the daily mail showed a picture of holes in the fuselage that look a lot like shrapnel??
A compressor hub fragmenting could send dozens of blades flying out at high speed…vertical slices into the fuselage.
There’s been a couple examples in the last few years, fortunately those were on run up to takeoff.
I saw the hi-res version of that photo. They were not holes but mostly rocks and other tiny bits of metal lying on top of the sheet metal.
If Iran did destroy that aircraft then it is well past time that Iran ceases to exist. America has been at war with Iran since 1979. If America had destroyed the mullahs and their ability to make war at that point in time the world and the middle east would be a better place.
old white, american law forbids they take out the leaders of any country
That’s why they didn’t carpet bomb Berlin in the war right?
Mark, try context you idiot lefty, WW2 was before that law was passed
Of course they can. What law would prevent you from killing someone who was a direct threat to your life?
What were 68 “Canadians” doing in Iran?
Or, maybe the more appropriate question would be… What were 68 “Iranians” doing with Canadian passports?
If there were 68 on the flight how many more are in Iran? Hundreds? Thousands?
They weren’t real Canadians. They were Iranian/Muslims. Part of the advanced invasion of stupid, hapless Canada … you know the country run by a boy-idiot-commie and his gaggle of Eastern Canadian scum.
J-stupid, there are many Iranian christians here in canada
Getting fresh orders for jihad in Canada.
Joseph,they were probably visiting family,just like anyone else who immigrated here.
UIA statement on crash. Stay tuned for passenger list.
https://www.flyuia.com/us/en/news/2020/uia-confirms-plane-crash-in-iran
This was no accident.
Coming in 3,2,1… blame Donald Trump,
Iran says it’s a false flag
the fake media echoes Iran
the fake media with footage of protestors in the street yelling death to America
World War III, World War III, World War III… ad infinitum
It will be difficult to find out the actual facts. As the posted report says, Iran is refusing to turn over the black boxes. And the paid-and-bought-for Canadian media will follow whatever Justin Trudeau wants them to believe. My feeling is that the PMO will want to play this airline crash down. Our media cartel might blame Trump, though.
And Donald Trump personally planted the bomb on that plane – the Iranians have film of him doing it.
Just ask them.
Is it not stupidity to fly a passenger airplane in a war\hot zone?
Wth?
Well, I’d have thought so: if it were me and I was launching a ballistic missile attack against the United States, I’d be telling my people to get the hell out of the way. The whole thing has a whiff of John Cleese-ian Monty Phython comedic cluelessness about it.
In respect of the 50+ who died in the stampede in Suleimani’s hometown, Dr. D. raised the issue of “own goal” in the previous Iran thread. If this turns out to be an anti-aircraft mistake, that’d be another own goal.
Couple that with the inability to hit a target with 22 ballistic missiles, and pretty soon is starts to look like you don’t know what you’re doing (the gang who couldn’t shoot straight). That sense taking hold will be deadly to the regime and to its alliances throughout the region — not to mention to the Democrat critics of President Trump.
More likely, purely for domestic consumption. Especially when you consider the claims of many American dead they are making when the real total is zero.
This way, it’s a domestic propaganda victory, without risking massive retaliation. I wouldn’t mind betting that the US was even given advanced warning and knew of the targeting, which would explain Trump’s very constrained response.
They were most likely all Muslims so they actually did the world a favor. Worst case is the price of falafels and bullet-proof vests go up in Torontostan.
In Iranian minds,,, they weren’t likely “the right kinda” Muslims.
Russian missiles are very effective in shooting down airliners.
I for one will not miss these “Canadians”. Anyone stupid enough to be Iran deserves what they get.
From 1938 – “67 Canadians visiting their German relatives in The Third Reich have been reported dead after their Juncker
fell from the sky near Magdeburg.”
Made this up but you get the idea
Because Germans immigratants are just like Iranian ones?
The passenger list has been released. Hard to pick out the Canadians
“Hard to pick out the Canadians”
No it isn’t. They are the ones with the first or last name being combinations of Mohammed and Ali.
That’s no engine fire. The entire wing was on fire – or what was left of it.
Seems that Iran has capped off an embarrassing day by having one of their brightest at an anti-air missile site shoot down a civilian airliner.
If not for this, they might have got through unscathed in yesterday’s face-saving PR exercise of blasting of some dirt adjacent to a couple of US installations. Not now.
They’ve just handed the US and the international community fresh evidence to thrash the mullahs with. Possibly the top self-own of 2020.
And with 70+ Canadians on that flight, they’ve also handed our pansy emoter-in-chief new material to wrinkle his eyebrows at as he sheds an actor’s tear. The dunce in Ottawa will be off to shop for new socks for the occasion.
As we speak,his pedoplekind are probably challenging the Ayatollah to a native costume dance-off.
Let’s hope his sternly worded letter doesn’t upset the crazies and he doesn’t lisp us into a war.
With only 5000 boots on the ground and no way to get them to Iran, chances are the hundreds of thousands, millions? of hyphenated Iranian-Canadians could take the country over before China could do anything about it.
Luckily, Canadians won’t have to learn Persian. Thanks yanks.
Which is a good thing seeing how well the learn French thing has gone.
CBC should soon have all kinds of reports out thanking Trump and the USA for saving defenceless Canada once again.
Has our leader made any comment on any of this? The Americans took out buddy on the weekend – guess word hasn’t reached the government yet. Bongo’s beard has been in Alberta the last coupla days. She’s apparently 2IC. Wonder why she hasn’t noticed what is going on?
Iran is one or the most corrupt countries in the world. Ukraine is it’s equal…..just sayin’. This has ruskie fingerprints all over it
The holes in the fuselage all seem to be entry holes.
The Iranians refuse to turn over the ‘black box’?
C’mon bong man step up and be a world leader. Condemn this action and demand it be released to determine what happened.
Trudeau is a coward.
It’s not Boeing that’s asking for the black box. It’s the Ukrainian civil aviation authority that’s asking for them as it’s their property.
Let’s forget about Trudeau, he is useless, his script writer(s) will be going over his lines with him and Freeland will be briefed on it so she can appear to know what the hell is going on.
Tehran airport must be ringed with anti-air missile sites and close-in air defence anti-missile systems. All it would take is one genius to push the wrong button. The fuselage looks like it was hit by multiple large calibre rounds, among other things.
ls this Iran’s equivalent of what happened with the USS Vincennes in 1988?
I remember that. Very good question?
Of course, it could be also Iran’s Lockerbie.
Heard on CTV–
Some of the people who died in plane crash are Iranian Canadians from Edmonton Alberta. No names, no numbers yet.
See tweet from F.P. Champagne below:
From Canadian Foreign Minister:
https://mobile.twitter.com/FP_Champagne/status/1214885903929348101?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1214885903929348101&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepostmillennial.com%2Ftragedy-63-canadians-killed-in-plane-that-crashed-in-iran%2F
“Some of the people who died in plane crash are Iranian Canadians from Edmonton Alberta. ”
Oh great. The far-left progressive libtard mayor of Edmonton will also have an authentic opportunity to cry in public. Perhaps the dunce from Ottawa will also show up in the coming days so they can hold a joint presser – then go off to a pub and compare beards.
https://gellerreport.com/2020/01/iran-bribed-officials.html/
“Iran threatens to expose Western diplomats who took bribes to create Iran deal”
PS752 is making more sense the more time passes. It was definitely about someone or something on that plane. Perhaps someone trying to travel outside official channels, using a fake name…
Just another incident where all planes must have technical communication with aircraft monitoring sites. Why do we in this day and age still rely on an onboard red box to provide information that could be provided in real time so easily? Trump is responsible in 3, 2, 1…
You know what? That’s the first time I’ve heard of this, and I can’t believe I never thought of it before. We have “effectively” real-time tracking of aircraft via transponder signal, and we can get decent WiFi on a trans-Pacific flight, so there’s literally no technological reason why airlines (or militaries) can’t have real-time (encrypted, even) telemetry of their equipment, anytime, anywhere. The box system should be solely used for backup at this point.
If you think back to that Malaysian flight that vanished, you may remember that it had in-flight telemetry via satellite back to the plane maker, so they do have at least some information. What that won’t contain is precise millisecond by millisecond control status information and most importantly cockpit voice recordings.
However, it seems quite feasible to me to have an emergency data dump take place as soon as the flight computers detect any abnormality, just try to transfer as much info as possible, including voice recordings.
You would still need the traditional recorders for the case where there is not enough time to make the emergency data dump or satellite communications are lost, for whatever reason (e.g. power loss).
It’s just a technical problem. In-flight telemetry transfer is exactly what you design to be, including making it impossible for flight crew (or others) to tamper with the system. Transfer rate is the only limitation, provided there’s a connection, and it’s not even that much of a problem if all you send is a little bit at a time. Black boxes don’t contain the entire flight log, but telemetry transfer could. An emergency dump is exactly where a transfer rate bottleneck would occur, and you’re hosed if you don’t have a functional connection anyway. If we’re worried in an on-going way about black-box loss (or aircraft going missing for months on end), reliance on the black boxes should end, except as the “on-site” backup.
I was thinking along the lines of a dedicated, normally unused transponder. With high bandwidth available for emergency dumps.
I’m no expert, but doing some quick research, it seems that aircraft transponders talk only to radar systems and work in sub-millisecond bursts of up to 112 bits in length. I don’t think they’d be suitable for the purpose. They also use two frequencies only, both around 1GHz, which might not be optimal, especially given the number of likely users in that range. Something scalable enough to handle all the thousands of airborne aircraft sending data all the time would be necessary. Storage of the data ground-side is trivial, and even on the aircraft.
It’s not an easily-solvable problem, but it is solvable, provided there’s a will to do so.
It depends on the age of the plane. It may have been built before in-flight reporting was included, and then would the Ukrainian airline have spent the money to get it retro-fitted? I’ve read it was a 737, but not a 737Max so that dates it a bit.
Supposedly the plane is only 4 years old so this type of recording should be in place. How many millions were spent on the Malaysian flight to try to locate it. People use their phones during the flights so a dedicated information and cockpit voices should be easily done.
737-800, a good plane with excellent track record
Two of those photos on the daily Mail site show the aircraft skin perforated from the outside in. The lighting in the lower photo graphically highlights that. Now, it is possible that a catastrophic failure of a turbine can cause this. But, such catastrophic turbine failures are very rare. Such an event has the potential to fatally damage the flight control surfaces on the same wing. So, it’s not out of the realm of possibility that a an aircraft that can climb out and cruise on one engine, with a full fuel and passenger load, might have fallen out of the sky due to an engine failure. It just doesn’t seem likely.
You can find the hi-res versions of these photos now. They are not holes. They are rocks and other bits lying on top of the sheet metal skin. I’m more inclined to believe it was a missile strike.
Thanks to Morocco Mole
http://avherald.com/h?article=4d1aea51&opt=0
This certainly beats the dailymail, with its imputations that Iranian authorities are refusing to hand the flight recorders to Boeing.
As one of the commenters noted:
// News reports that Iran refuses to give recorders to Boeing – I do not remember hearing of the airframe manufacturer being the one where the country in which the crash occurred being the one to analyze. Usually it is done by expert analysts like BEA. If they have difficulty reading the data, they seek assistance of the recorder manufacturer, not airframe supplier //
Boeing will apparently part of the investigation of the pieces, since they put them together.
// Investigation will be conducted with the involvement of the aviation authorities of Ukraine, Iran, representatives of the Boeing manufacturer, the airline, and the National Bureau of Air Accidents Investigation of Ukraine. The airline will inform about the progress of the investigation and the causes of the tragic event as soon as they are identified. //
Possibly the above-mentioned BEA will be involved:
// The French agency, based in the Paris suburb of Le Bourget, has extensive experience in investigating crashes and other incidents involving commercial flights. The BEA notably helps with investigations in countries without the resources or equipment to analyse the flight recorders, often called the black boxes. //
27 of the 63 Canadians are from Edmonton. They include Iranian-Canadians & International Students. Owing to the large number of Ukrainians in the West there are flights which allow Iranians to avoid American connections.
Canada won’t be involved. Harper cut our diplomatic representation and Trudeau has not re-established any:
https://twitter.com/DougSaunders/status/1214900517031288832
“27 of the deceased”
As for Trudeau’s vowing to get answers, that probably means he will ask someone with connections.
You are right, dizzy, he’s waiting for his brother to brief him on what the Iranian regime wants him to say.
Go away, leftist quisling.
Has Blackie blamed Harper yet??
So the sock monkey now wants answers.
Which would mean an investigation.
Investigations allow the government to lower the cone of silence on any new information regarding who was on the plane and why they would be in Iran.
Let’s digress.
If you are an Iranian currently living in a Canada it would be for one of the following reasons.
Either you came in as a refugee or you did not.
If you arrived as a refugee then as a qualifier to said status your life would be in danger if you choose to return, particularly due to the lack of diplomatic relations between Canada and Iran.
That leaves immigrants with dual citizenship that have the ability to enter and leave Iran with their blessing.
I’m going to leave that out there.
Trudeau has vowed to get answers? We’ll have them right after the pipelines he vowed to get built are done.
The extensive debris field suggests an airborne percussive event.
Whether the cause was internal or external is the compelling question…
Either way – Something bad happened…
I worked with an Iranian-Canadian. He has two passports. Visits homeland.
One passport for North America, one for homeland.
And that, is the crux of the situation.
Pick one or the other, you don’t get to keep both.
There is no loyalty, only bought, fake allegiances, used for convenience, totally worthless.
Two passports sure didn’t help Scheer in the Federal election.
and I have also applied for a second passport, so what???
Air Canada alters routes over the Middle East – to prevent “mechanical” failure I guess.
I have watched DOZENS of episodes of ‘Mayday’.
even sent a letter of support to the NTSB folks lamenting the fact they have to dig thru such tragic scenes as a plane crash to do their work but do so in the interests of future safety.
it is exceptionally and uniquely unusual for ANY authority to thumb their nose at those who need the vital evidence contained in the black boxes.
the first friggin thing they look for even before the fires are out are the black boxes.
but remember, we are dealing with a religion of violence, hate and death.
University professors among the Canadian dead. Why doesn’t that surprise me.
It’s a good start.
Among the dead was a muslim student at Guelph university who was working on whiny indian issues. I guess we can expect a sixty million dollar ten year inquiry into white colonialism causing her death. Get out the feathers, drums, and chants to the sacred tree frog.
& you know well, that fancy pants Trudeau is gonna blame Trump!
Reading through the list of dead – so many kids that appear to have been travelling with parents or relatives. Everyones worst nightmare.
I love how the Daily Mail slyly suggests it was a BOEING Aircraft Technical Failure along with so many other BOEING Aircraft issues. Most of which, if you can read between the lines were Human Error not “technical” & with said “humans” not originating as Euro Centrics either…
Ho Lee Fuk
Wei Too Lo
…….Comes to mind…in most of those other instances and typical Anti Capitalist BS from another English RAG.
This one though..??
ALL the newer twin engined Aircraft are capable of surviving 1 Engine Failure. It takes massive force to actually dislodge a complete engine from a wing….I’m betting a bomb or errant near miss by a missle. That plane was a lit meteorite as it fell.
RIP to those that perished…
you invoke my name???
The source, who declined to be identified, said the agencies believed the Boeing 737 plane suffered a [CATASTROPHIC EXPLOSIVE] technical malfunction just after a normal takeoff and ascent to altitude.
Both political panels at Blackie’s CBC and CTV had long discussions on how evil Trump is. They also agreed that Blackie was wonderful when he briefly came out of hiding with his beard today, to express his sadness. Blackie is wonderful. And they agreed that Canada should do nothing if evidence comes out that Iran shot down the plane. In fact we should reopen Canada’s embassy and strengthen ties with Iran.
https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-story-274158-3-.htm#274158
Here are the 12 “jihadis” from B.C. killed in this tragedy. Professionals,students, a family of three, engineer, two Doctors……….
This is a fucking tragedy for their families and Canada.
More professionals, engineers, from Manitoba:
https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/six-winnipeggers-two-u-of-m-grads-in-alberta-among-canadians-killed-on-ukrainian-jet-566814352.html
The first part of the lie is, “they wont release the black box.” This buys time and sets the table for the lies that are required to cover up a missile attack. Did they ever establish who shot down the passenger jet in the Ukraine? I know it was the ruskies but was it ever confirmed?
I’m thinking putin. He likes meddling and here he gets a freebie – plus the Ukes get a message. Strange silence from Prime Minister freeland.
Wait a few days before one gets insight from people who actually know what they are talking about.
Is Justin all serious and tough now?
Whatever …
Y’all appear to have missed this:
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/01/08/iran-refuses-to-hand-over-black-box-from-fatal-boeing-crash-near-tehran-nose-of-sam-missile-discovered-near-crash-site/
That’s what we in the trade call an “indicator”. This aircraft did not crash due to a mechanical malfunction, but likely due to the use of an anti-aircraft missile. The evidence is there in the pictures of the nose assembly, where the sensors and flight controls are located. The warhead is behind that part with the airfoils.
This aircraft was deliberately shot down. All that remains is to determine how/why. Two major lines of reasoning would be that it was due to the air defense battery making a mistake, or that the Iranians were hoping to have the aircraft “shot down” during an American attack. It could well be that American assets were indeed in the air, or engaged in ECM activity spoofing the air defense systems, but there’s been no report of US activity over Teheran last night.
It was either accidental, or the Iranians wanted something to hang around the neck of the US, to be able to claim that the aircraft was shot down by US forces in the course of an attack on Teheran.
Given that the air traffic control people should have known that they were giving the OK to takeoff and departure? Either it is gross incompetence, or deliberate. My vote is for “deliberate”, as the Iranians are not complete idiots. The Islamic Republic of Iran Air Defense Force has a fairly good reputation for professionalism, and given that they’re not the usual inept Arab forces, I doubt this was “accidental”.
The victims were murdered, in short. Deliberately.
Kirk,
You wrote: “Y’all appear to have missed this”
Not really, see abtrapper’s post @ 9:15 pm above.
You mean to say that a warhead can be seen in the wreckage? Really? Doesn’t a warhead have to explode into a million tiny bits to properly do its destructive job?
I commented on this story that appeared in the National Post. An alleged ”conservative” news paper. My comment was deleted for allegedly using inappropriate language.
This was the story: https://nationalpost.com/news/a-reminder-of-what-it-means-to-be-canadian-tehran-crash-a-shock-to-our-outdated-ideas-of-identity#comments-area
This is my commnet. ” I don’t believe this is an accident. The plane ignited in flight. I believe it was struck by a surface to air missile or anti aircraft firearms. A cowardly act by terrorists against persons and nations who had nothing to do with the General’s death. I further believe that very shortly, the Americans will retribute, not only for this tragedy, but also for the missle attacks that they endured last night. As for Trudeau and the Liberals, their reaction to this will be the same as always. They’ll explain it away and do nothing.”