10 Replies to “We Don’t Need No Stinking Hybrid Destroyers”
A Prius Destroyer. Terrific. Did it have a Coexist bumper sticker too?
I thank God every single day Donny Two Scoops is our CIC.
I’m not an expert on destroyers but I’m pretty sure that one doesn’t need a hybrid destroyer to cut out in the middle of a fire-fight.
Who green-lighted that? Find him and kick his @$$.
A hybrid automobile gains efficiency on downhill dynamic braking by turning its electric drive motors into generators briefly charging its batteries (diesel-electric locomotives have been doing this for 75 years). No such conditions exist on the water where the efficiency loss of conversion of ICE hp into electricity and then again into drive shaft hp is more or less constant. Why would anyone ever think this would have been more fuel efficient?
The green fleet initiatives were a Mabus invention. A dedicated leftist-progressive. His legacy needs to be purged from the Department of the Navy.
That being said, electric drive is not a new idea (it was turbo-electric drive then), and the USS New Mexico (BB-40) was said to have a fuel consumption 20% less than her sisters with direct drive turbines. There were also evidently some maneuvering improvements. So, not a horrible idea but, if “former Navy official who spoke on background” is to be believed, it was not engineered properly in the Truxton install. The devil is always in the details. http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-038.php
The idea on this was good but they ran into a bunch of hiccups. You stick it on one ship and let the problems be worked out.
Actually USN does have hybrid destroyers in the Zumwalt class. Back in the day we even had hybrid battleships. What it usually means is that the powerplant, in this gas turbines, turns a generator that produces electricity, that powers a motor connected to the props. It adds a level of complexity but its good in the long run. The engine can be run at the most economical setting while generating the same speed for the ship. With a gas turbine, you don’t even need it down at the bottom of the hull. The QM2 has her’s hidden in the smoke stake above deck. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbine-electric_transmission
The reason the USN wants this is that hybrid can generate a LOT of electricity. The new radars, lasers, and rail guns will need all the power you can get.
According to the article, the efficiencies are obtained while running at low speeds, powering the props from the power generators rather than the larger gas turbines. These efficiency gains disappear when the gas turbines are needed while at cruising speed.
There are reportedly bugs in the system that calls into question the theoretical efficiency gains. It makes sense to get the bugs worked out before committing hundreds of millions of dollars. Also, yanking funding is a great way to give L-3 and sub-contractors a kick in the pants to get the costs down.
*If* it works out, then there shouldn’t be a great difficulty in re-inserting the budget line item next year when ROI can be more realistically and accurately determined.
As long as they can pour the coal on (figure of speech) in a method that works when they need to.
It should be noted that this program was initiated during the previous administration when the greatest threat to national security was “climate change”, suggesting that concepts like effectiveness and operational costs had become subordinate to CO2 emissions reductions. Adversaries must have been very concerned knowing that the USN was lowering emissions by a few percent.
An improvement in fuel efficiency is a wonderful thing, but higher complexity and lower reliability does not benefit combat readiness/effectiveness (never mind the defense budget), which should be the USN’s primary concern.
This is very reminiscent of innumerable RE boondoggles that looked great on paper. Let this one test case prove itself. The USN has wisely adjusted its focus.
I don’t know … I kinda liked the term … “Green Destroyers”.
Brightdark is right, I think: Longer range and less logistical load from a warship is a very good thing. Maybe this was an experiment that just didn’t work out because it was too hard to retrofit on a ship not designed that way from the start… Or maybe it was a good idea cut because a better-connected program needed cash, or because we’re redirecting R&D to operations.
A Prius Destroyer. Terrific. Did it have a Coexist bumper sticker too?
I thank God every single day Donny Two Scoops is our CIC.
I’m not an expert on destroyers but I’m pretty sure that one doesn’t need a hybrid destroyer to cut out in the middle of a fire-fight.
Who green-lighted that? Find him and kick his @$$.
A hybrid automobile gains efficiency on downhill dynamic braking by turning its electric drive motors into generators briefly charging its batteries (diesel-electric locomotives have been doing this for 75 years). No such conditions exist on the water where the efficiency loss of conversion of ICE hp into electricity and then again into drive shaft hp is more or less constant. Why would anyone ever think this would have been more fuel efficient?
The green fleet initiatives were a Mabus invention. A dedicated leftist-progressive. His legacy needs to be purged from the Department of the Navy.
That being said, electric drive is not a new idea (it was turbo-electric drive then), and the USS New Mexico (BB-40) was said to have a fuel consumption 20% less than her sisters with direct drive turbines. There were also evidently some maneuvering improvements. So, not a horrible idea but, if “former Navy official who spoke on background” is to be believed, it was not engineered properly in the Truxton install. The devil is always in the details.
http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-038.php
The idea on this was good but they ran into a bunch of hiccups. You stick it on one ship and let the problems be worked out.
Actually USN does have hybrid destroyers in the Zumwalt class. Back in the day we even had hybrid battleships. What it usually means is that the powerplant, in this gas turbines, turns a generator that produces electricity, that powers a motor connected to the props. It adds a level of complexity but its good in the long run. The engine can be run at the most economical setting while generating the same speed for the ship. With a gas turbine, you don’t even need it down at the bottom of the hull. The QM2 has her’s hidden in the smoke stake above deck. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbine-electric_transmission
The reason the USN wants this is that hybrid can generate a LOT of electricity. The new radars, lasers, and rail guns will need all the power you can get.
According to the article, the efficiencies are obtained while running at low speeds, powering the props from the power generators rather than the larger gas turbines. These efficiency gains disappear when the gas turbines are needed while at cruising speed.
There are reportedly bugs in the system that calls into question the theoretical efficiency gains. It makes sense to get the bugs worked out before committing hundreds of millions of dollars. Also, yanking funding is a great way to give L-3 and sub-contractors a kick in the pants to get the costs down.
*If* it works out, then there shouldn’t be a great difficulty in re-inserting the budget line item next year when ROI can be more realistically and accurately determined.
As long as they can pour the coal on (figure of speech) in a method that works when they need to.
It should be noted that this program was initiated during the previous administration when the greatest threat to national security was “climate change”, suggesting that concepts like effectiveness and operational costs had become subordinate to CO2 emissions reductions. Adversaries must have been very concerned knowing that the USN was lowering emissions by a few percent.
An improvement in fuel efficiency is a wonderful thing, but higher complexity and lower reliability does not benefit combat readiness/effectiveness (never mind the defense budget), which should be the USN’s primary concern.
This is very reminiscent of innumerable RE boondoggles that looked great on paper. Let this one test case prove itself. The USN has wisely adjusted its focus.
I don’t know … I kinda liked the term … “Green Destroyers”.
Brightdark is right, I think: Longer range and less logistical load from a warship is a very good thing. Maybe this was an experiment that just didn’t work out because it was too hard to retrofit on a ship not designed that way from the start… Or maybe it was a good idea cut because a better-connected program needed cash, or because we’re redirecting R&D to operations.