I suspect that Trudeau will go for the “smart play” and throw Morneau under the bus as soon as possible. Trudeau doesn’t react very well under pressure.
Seems Turdeau straightforwardly defended him in a speech or news conference today.
Said he did not breech any conflict rules .
I suspect that Trudeau will go for the “smart play” and throw Morneau under the bus as soon as possible.
Just like he did with Monsef and Sajjan. (Yeah, right.)
“Sunny Ways” my arse. Turdeau’s sun rises in the East and shines up to Toronto and then begins to dull.
well this is making it very hard for (S)cheers to piss the election away, he will have to work hard to do that, butt with guidance from Tory, WhoDatt, and and th current ontarIowe progressive idiot, I’m certain old scheers can accomplish that
Strangely enough, even when they’re caught “doing the wrong thing” my expectation that they’ll “do the right thing” only rises to 50:50 …
#libranos
Let’s see if I got this right Maryann Monseff lies to get into the country illegally. When she was discovered she simply said I will fix my papers. So Ok with the liberals. Bill Morneau does not put his assets in a blind trust as is the custom, but when discovered he says he will fix it. So Ok with the liberals. I seem to recall the MSM spent two years with reports daily on the
MIke Duffy situation where money was paid back and Duffy found to be innocent in a court of law.
When did this country become so corrupted with liberal politicians, did it start with PET or Justin or have the liberals always been corrupt.
And just how much profit will he make on selling those shares? Capital gains are taxed at 50%; assuming he’s an Ontario resident, that means he’ll walk away with about 74% of the selling price.
As said before, it’s a damn good thing it wasn’t a $16 glass of OJ. THATS real abuse of the taxpayer.
The more the Quebec faction of the LPC takes over,which started in 1968, the more corruption there will be.
Third World Countries have nothing on Quebec when it comes to systemic corruption, it’s the way things are done there,and as we’ve had Quebec based PM’s for most of the past 49 years,this is how it is and always will be.
“He is a proud and, I believe, honourable man. I doubt he will resign…”
Then, he has no honour.
“…he probably should not have run in the first place — politics is just not him. He certainly should not have been made finance minister, given his deep roots at Morneau Shepell, a company that operates in the sector that he regulates.”
But he ran, and he ran for one reason: because he’s just another bastard who is obsessed with power and driven by greed. Like the rest of them.
I’m a bit rusty on my tax law but I thought if Morneau owns his shares through his corporation and sells them, he doesn’t pay any tax unless he transfers the money from his corporation to his personal account. I thought that is what “passive investment” is all about.
Of course if he chooses to take the windfall out of his corporation he can issue dividends to his wife and children, if he has any. Or he can transfer the tens of millions of dollars through a family trust over the next 26 years or so, paying each member of the trust up to $50,000 in almost tax-free income.
Or he could have his corporation rent his villa in France with payment going to another company that may or may not be registered in Canada. For example, Ireland or the Netherlands where tax rates are very low. He could pay the company in one jurisdiction where corporate tax rates are low and then pay himself in another jurisdiction where personal taxes are low.
Or he could sell the Alberta private numbered company to the Ontario private numbered company and declare a one time capital gain of $800,000. Or, if he makes his wife an owner, after all she is a director of the Alberta company and is paid a salary for managing his shares in Morneau Sheppel, she could also qualify for a one time capital gain to provide a total of $1.6 million in tax free income.
Morneau plans on limiting “future” passive investment income to a maximum of $50,000/yr. If amounts currently invested are grand-fathered (which the Liberal government has hinted at) Morneau will have years to pull out his money at less than a 26% tax rate. If, however, these amounts are not grand-fathered, Morneau would have to sell all his shares this year. He would then be limited to a maximum $50,000/yr without triggering tax issues.
I guess my point is that Bill has a lot of options, not just a 26% tax hit.
The more the Quebec faction of the LPC takes over,which started in 1968
Actually, it began earlier than that. Look up who Lucien Rivard was and how his antics affected Canadian politics. The incident that he’s best known for led to PET eventually being inflicted upon us.
ribbit ribbit. ribbit ribbit.
(sound of the Canuckistan swamp)
The sock boy lacks any management experience and he won’t be able to make any executive decisions. He thinks that is Gerald Butt responsibility ..or something.
I was going to elaborate on what you said, but I think you covered most of it.
The Capital Dividend account in the corp holding Morneau Sheppel shares will receive the un-taxed 50% of any capital gains of MS shares. It can sit there forever, as there is no reason to take it out in any sort of income vehicle. If he, or his wife want, after the corporate tax return is filed & an assessment issued & taxes paid, can apply to have that capital dividend account cough up the money, tax free (tax having been paid on the capital gains) to the owner(s). They don’t even have to sell the company to access the cash.
I’ve done this exact same maneuver in years past, paid capital gains tax on shares of say BMO & received the un-taxed portion as a tax free distribution from the corporation after the fiscal year end has been filed. It’s hilarious that this guy wants to put an end to the practice for everybody else, when it benefits him probably the most.
We don’t precisely know how these shares are held. I was assuming personally. If sold through the corporation, it is my understanding there would be some capital gains tax payable by the corporation. After all, if a corporation disposes of an asset at a profit, it’s taxable. But then, – if I have it right – M. Morneau would be able to take a certain portion of the proceeds out of the corporation tax-free. Need to more studying to get all the details, but think PO’d in Alberta has it right. No matter what, there’s a nice little windfall there.
If I were Morneau I would prefer to continue to hold the shares for the $135K per month in dividends they were paying him. According to filings made in 2015 he held nearly 2.07 million shares of Morneau Shepell through a numbered Alberta Company (1193536 Alberta Ltd.) Those shares are worth a little over $20 per share right now so the total value is over $40-million. The shares pay monthly dividends at the rate of 6.5-cents per share. Selling the shares means he has to find a place to park the money that pays a similar rate of return while maintaining the potential for capital growth.
I don’t begrudge him his wealth. It’s his hypocrisy and the hypocrisy of “little potato” that gets me. It was irresponsible of Morneau not to have set up a blind trust and taken care of all this when he became a cabinet minister. Like someone upthread said it’s a good thing it didn’t involve a $16 glass of orange juice or the press would never have let him forget it. /sarc
From the Ottawa Citizen: “Insider trading reports indicate that, at last filing, Morneau still indirectly owned 2,066,480 common shares in Morneau Shapell, worth about $32 million, through a numbered company in Alberta.”
The MS shares appear to be held corporately, so the scenario I posted above will probably apply. Frankly, at this point there is no need to sell off anything. I don’t begrudge the man his efforts to reduce tax payable to himself as I would any other business person. There is nothing illegal about anything he has done.
If there is no indication that he, or his various corporations received any benefit from decisions made recently in Cabinet on finance, tax or pension matters, then putting the stuff into a blind trust after the fact should be acceptable. Really, after all this he should resign his Cabinet position & sit as a member of the House, as a penalty & recuse himself on input or activity that is perceived as a conflict of interest on any business that is encompassed by Morneau Shapell.
Sock Boy needs a slap upside the head too, about enlisting the clown as FinMin in the first place, without proper vetting. I know they all think we plebes are stupid, but not all of us. This isn’t a new scenario in political history. The precedent has been set.
Unforced error. Pure arrogance on the part of the LPOC.
From the article: The only takeaway for the vast majority of people is that a very rich man, who is taking advantage of tax loopholes to stay rich, was trying to close tax loopholes for people who are much less rich than he is.
Precisely.
Too bad none of them are bright enough to reduce spending and taxes at the same time. Yep, the word is stupid.
Well, well, uppity date: Apparently Morneau Shepel is in receipt of an $8 million contract with the Bank of Canada on pension stuff since 2012, while under Morneau’s watch & before he was Fin Min, so now if he sells his shares as Fin MIn, as he states he will, we can lynch him on insider trading charges. He heads up the Bank of Canada as Fin Min & contract renewed under his guidance with BoC. http://www.torontosun.com/2017/10/20/morneaus-firm-doing-work-for-the-feds
This man is in deep doodoo. ‘Cuz no “blind trust”. Must resign ingloriously & can’t sell his shares under these conditions. He’s just shat all over himself with this. What an arrogant idiot.
I suspect that Trudeau will go for the “smart play” and throw Morneau under the bus as soon as possible. Trudeau doesn’t react very well under pressure.
Seems Turdeau straightforwardly defended him in a speech or news conference today.
Said he did not breech any conflict rules .
I suspect that Trudeau will go for the “smart play” and throw Morneau under the bus as soon as possible.
Just like he did with Monsef and Sajjan. (Yeah, right.)
“Sunny Ways” my arse. Turdeau’s sun rises in the East and shines up to Toronto and then begins to dull.
well this is making it very hard for (S)cheers to piss the election away, he will have to work hard to do that, butt with guidance from Tory, WhoDatt, and and th current ontarIowe progressive idiot, I’m certain old scheers can accomplish that
Morneau just announced he’s putting all his assets in a blind trust and he is selling his and his family’s holdings in Morneau Shepell. He has lowered the small business tax rate and he’s not going ahead with removing the ability for a private corporation to convert earnings to capital gains. Because he’s a Liberal all will be forgiven. Any other party and he would have had to resign by now. The benefits of belonging to “Canada’s natural governing party.”
It will be up to voters to get these weasels out of office and we all know how unlikely that is based on voters in Ontario and Quebec.
http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/bill-morneau-will-put-his-assets-in-blind-trust
http://nationalpost.com/personal-finance/taxes/morneaus-tax-retreat-continues-ahead-of-canada-budget-update/wcm/41c6921a-3cb5-4210-ab19-465115b1f924
Strangely enough, even when they’re caught “doing the wrong thing” my expectation that they’ll “do the right thing” only rises to 50:50 …
#libranos
Let’s see if I got this right Maryann Monseff lies to get into the country illegally. When she was discovered she simply said I will fix my papers. So Ok with the liberals. Bill Morneau does not put his assets in a blind trust as is the custom, but when discovered he says he will fix it. So Ok with the liberals. I seem to recall the MSM spent two years with reports daily on the
MIke Duffy situation where money was paid back and Duffy found to be innocent in a court of law.
When did this country become so corrupted with liberal politicians, did it start with PET or Justin or have the liberals always been corrupt.
And just how much profit will he make on selling those shares? Capital gains are taxed at 50%; assuming he’s an Ontario resident, that means he’ll walk away with about 74% of the selling price.
As said before, it’s a damn good thing it wasn’t a $16 glass of OJ. THATS real abuse of the taxpayer.
The more the Quebec faction of the LPC takes over,which started in 1968, the more corruption there will be.
Third World Countries have nothing on Quebec when it comes to systemic corruption, it’s the way things are done there,and as we’ve had Quebec based PM’s for most of the past 49 years,this is how it is and always will be.
“He is a proud and, I believe, honourable man. I doubt he will resign…”
Then, he has no honour.
“…he probably should not have run in the first place — politics is just not him. He certainly should not have been made finance minister, given his deep roots at Morneau Shepell, a company that operates in the sector that he regulates.”
But he ran, and he ran for one reason: because he’s just another bastard who is obsessed with power and driven by greed. Like the rest of them.
I’m a bit rusty on my tax law but I thought if Morneau owns his shares through his corporation and sells them, he doesn’t pay any tax unless he transfers the money from his corporation to his personal account. I thought that is what “passive investment” is all about.
Of course if he chooses to take the windfall out of his corporation he can issue dividends to his wife and children, if he has any. Or he can transfer the tens of millions of dollars through a family trust over the next 26 years or so, paying each member of the trust up to $50,000 in almost tax-free income.
Or he could have his corporation rent his villa in France with payment going to another company that may or may not be registered in Canada. For example, Ireland or the Netherlands where tax rates are very low. He could pay the company in one jurisdiction where corporate tax rates are low and then pay himself in another jurisdiction where personal taxes are low.
Or he could sell the Alberta private numbered company to the Ontario private numbered company and declare a one time capital gain of $800,000. Or, if he makes his wife an owner, after all she is a director of the Alberta company and is paid a salary for managing his shares in Morneau Sheppel, she could also qualify for a one time capital gain to provide a total of $1.6 million in tax free income.
Morneau plans on limiting “future” passive investment income to a maximum of $50,000/yr. If amounts currently invested are grand-fathered (which the Liberal government has hinted at) Morneau will have years to pull out his money at less than a 26% tax rate. If, however, these amounts are not grand-fathered, Morneau would have to sell all his shares this year. He would then be limited to a maximum $50,000/yr without triggering tax issues.
I guess my point is that Bill has a lot of options, not just a 26% tax hit.
The more the Quebec faction of the LPC takes over,which started in 1968
Actually, it began earlier than that. Look up who Lucien Rivard was and how his antics affected Canadian politics. The incident that he’s best known for led to PET eventually being inflicted upon us.
ribbit ribbit. ribbit ribbit.
(sound of the Canuckistan swamp)
The sock boy lacks any management experience and he won’t be able to make any executive decisions. He thinks that is Gerald Butt responsibility ..or something.
I was going to elaborate on what you said, but I think you covered most of it.
The Capital Dividend account in the corp holding Morneau Sheppel shares will receive the un-taxed 50% of any capital gains of MS shares. It can sit there forever, as there is no reason to take it out in any sort of income vehicle. If he, or his wife want, after the corporate tax return is filed & an assessment issued & taxes paid, can apply to have that capital dividend account cough up the money, tax free (tax having been paid on the capital gains) to the owner(s). They don’t even have to sell the company to access the cash.
I’ve done this exact same maneuver in years past, paid capital gains tax on shares of say BMO & received the un-taxed portion as a tax free distribution from the corporation after the fiscal year end has been filed. It’s hilarious that this guy wants to put an end to the practice for everybody else, when it benefits him probably the most.
We don’t precisely know how these shares are held. I was assuming personally. If sold through the corporation, it is my understanding there would be some capital gains tax payable by the corporation. After all, if a corporation disposes of an asset at a profit, it’s taxable. But then, – if I have it right – M. Morneau would be able to take a certain portion of the proceeds out of the corporation tax-free. Need to more studying to get all the details, but think PO’d in Alberta has it right. No matter what, there’s a nice little windfall there.
If I were Morneau I would prefer to continue to hold the shares for the $135K per month in dividends they were paying him. According to filings made in 2015 he held nearly 2.07 million shares of Morneau Shepell through a numbered Alberta Company (1193536 Alberta Ltd.) Those shares are worth a little over $20 per share right now so the total value is over $40-million. The shares pay monthly dividends at the rate of 6.5-cents per share. Selling the shares means he has to find a place to park the money that pays a similar rate of return while maintaining the potential for capital growth.
I don’t begrudge him his wealth. It’s his hypocrisy and the hypocrisy of “little potato” that gets me. It was irresponsible of Morneau not to have set up a blind trust and taken care of all this when he became a cabinet minister. Like someone upthread said it’s a good thing it didn’t involve a $16 glass of orange juice or the press would never have let him forget it. /sarc
From the Ottawa Citizen: “Insider trading reports indicate that, at last filing, Morneau still indirectly owned 2,066,480 common shares in Morneau Shapell, worth about $32 million, through a numbered company in Alberta.”
The MS shares appear to be held corporately, so the scenario I posted above will probably apply. Frankly, at this point there is no need to sell off anything. I don’t begrudge the man his efforts to reduce tax payable to himself as I would any other business person. There is nothing illegal about anything he has done.
If there is no indication that he, or his various corporations received any benefit from decisions made recently in Cabinet on finance, tax or pension matters, then putting the stuff into a blind trust after the fact should be acceptable. Really, after all this he should resign his Cabinet position & sit as a member of the House, as a penalty & recuse himself on input or activity that is perceived as a conflict of interest on any business that is encompassed by Morneau Shapell.
Sock Boy needs a slap upside the head too, about enlisting the clown as FinMin in the first place, without proper vetting. I know they all think we plebes are stupid, but not all of us. This isn’t a new scenario in political history. The precedent has been set.
Unforced error. Pure arrogance on the part of the LPOC.
From the article:
The only takeaway for the vast majority of people is that a very rich man, who is taking advantage of tax loopholes to stay rich, was trying to close tax loopholes for people who are much less rich than he is.
Precisely.
Too bad none of them are bright enough to reduce spending and taxes at the same time. Yep, the word is stupid.
Well, well, uppity date: Apparently Morneau Shepel is in receipt of an $8 million contract with the Bank of Canada on pension stuff since 2012, while under Morneau’s watch & before he was Fin Min, so now if he sells his shares as Fin MIn, as he states he will, we can lynch him on insider trading charges. He heads up the Bank of Canada as Fin Min & contract renewed under his guidance with BoC.
http://www.torontosun.com/2017/10/20/morneaus-firm-doing-work-for-the-feds
This man is in deep doodoo. ‘Cuz no “blind trust”. Must resign ingloriously & can’t sell his shares under these conditions. He’s just shat all over himself with this. What an arrogant idiot.