U newfbertans are always cackliing about our (torontario)politicians, guess whos laffing now:-))))
A good friend owns a restaurant in the Muskokas and is suffering terribly with Ontario’s .05 as people might have just a glass of wine now or none. As he told me last week restaurants break even on their food with alcohol sales as their profit source.
Premier Dad and his Liberals know this but simply don’t care if business suffers as it meets the agenda of their socialist do-gooders.
As several posters pointed out it is far easier to go after hunters with long guns or marginal drinkers or innocent protesters than blacks with hand guns, those with many DUIs or the Black Block thugs. That’s hard and expensive.
Prohibition all over again for the first time.
Well I agree with many here that having one beer is a real risk technically, and the laws are getting ridiculous they aren’t stopping there (I’m in Ontario) and will be headed to zero tolerance soon for everyone with stiffer penalties.
The question is what do they do after that when perfection isn’t reached.
lots of old tories skidding their own rigs and retiring , meanwhile the larders are getting stocked with old libs like Ric McIver and Donna Glans. Redford bought the premiership via the teachers union. expect raises next year as the payoff
this is just the start of Red conservative Alberta , Im afraid the Wildrose will only make inroads this next election, will take two to toss the tories out.
This same thing occurred with my brother in northern B.C., he was pulled over (without cause). Apparently this is allowed under these laws. Had there been a pub 20 miles down the road he was traveling, might have at least been some kind of reason to believe he may have been drinking. Then again, and more likely it was because it is a small town and the police maybe didn’t like anglos or middle-aged white males, or God knows what! The law is presently under review but is still likely to cost the driver $4000 after paying for and taking a safe driving course, and then the installation of a breath testing device for any vehicle he may have to drive, plus fines. Well, he is now out of work because of this, and they are going without taxes and the man is suffering depression. – any wonder? Cost effective? Uh-uh, and he didn’t even blow over .08.
I hope Wild Rose wins a majority of seats in the next election.
… and I hope that those within the Progressive Conservative party in Alberta stick to their guns, and stay in the P.C. party, so as to not infect those that fondly remember their liberties.
It’s a bad idea Robert, I also oppose the wearing of helmet’s while walking one’s dog on city owned lawn / parks. … for example.
Mugs >
“The question is what do they do after that when perfection isn’t reached.”
Next will be salt in restaurants, followed by overall annual intake limits. From there it’s any non-approved foods and drinks, non-approved pets, guns, imposed exercise regimes, entertainment choices, social associations, non-approved discontent, thought & speech crimes, etcetera………..
The funny thing is that everything listed above is already government controlled to a high degree already. It’s simply a matter of turning up the heat.
All the old wrinkled bastards in the Alberta PCs are bailing out. Kowalski, Evans, Leipert are quitting.
My wife and I decided years ago that when we go out, only one of us will have a drink. Unless you own your own brethalizer, no one knows if they’re safe to drive or not. Besides, that same bottle of beer or glass of wine is one quarter the price if you buy it at the liquor store. Given my abilities to always burn dinner, I don’t, however, have a problem with paying for dinner at inflated prices.
The Wildrose Party has some good Alison Redford background information:
Worth a quick look. “Endorsed by Warren Kennsilla” should send off alarm bells. http://redfordfiles.ca/too-red-for-alberta
In my opinion this is sheer lunacy. If 23% of accidents are caused by people with alcohol in their bloodstream, it means that 77%, that is three times as many accidents, are caused by people who drink pop, juice, water, caffeinated beverages and shit like that.
These are the people the police should be hassling – they cause three times as many accidents.
The sad part is that even if WRP is elected this stupid law will not be rolled back unless Danielle has the courage to do so.
Don’t forget that the federal conservatives gave police the power to pull people over for no reason at all last year. Combine that with this MADD written law and you have a police state.
The problem is MADD and their non-profit status. I want to hear from a politician that will look into the salary and benefit package of the people running that organization. Not only are they making great money, but they keep pushing this no drinking agenda to keep themselves in the news and get more funding.
They are the problem. (but so are the alberta pcs)
A silly question maybe, but what are the chances of you blowing something if the person before you did and had alcohol?
Meaning with all the huffing and puffing going on, near the end of the night, er, checkstop, there isn’t a residual buildup inside the machine?
Has this been proven not, you know like how tazers are safe for everyone?
The .08 worked well as no one is impaired at that level, so why did they have to mess with it ? Easy money. Great cash cow and all lawyers approve. Much more fun and far better power trips for police than catching actual drunks.
What is needed is for someone to fight this idiotic legislation on constitutional grounds. That takes money and it might be worthwhile for bars and restaurants to start a fund to pay the legal expenses of the first person ready to take on the safety Nazi’s. Have Doug Christie as the lawyer for the defense. Also, we need a web site dedicated to the statist excesses of Morons Assisting Despicable Dictators.
Having done a number of reaction time/blood alcohol studies when I was a medical student I found that people varied enormously in how much a bit of alcohol would affect their reaction time. I was in the group where, in a BAC of less than 0.08%, my simple reaction time improved as a function of my alcohol level. Noticed this when I first started driving and I was able to flawlessly parallel park after 6 beer whereas I’d never attempt to parallel park sober.
6 beer will take my BAC to 0.06 which is well within the federal legal limit. This is the first time I’ve heard about BC legislation and it really pisses me off as I plan on driving to a Christmas party next week.
One way of screwing up a breathalyzer is to have a drink of liquor just before doing the test. I don’t know if the penalty for having an open bottle of liquor in the vehicle is less than that for impaired driving but any cop that accepted the results of a breathalyzer test in this situation would be laughed out of court. The only way to determine the BAC in this situation would be to wait at least 20 minutes and repeat the breathalyzer or have a blood sample drawn for an alcohol level. Given ER wait times, one would be sober by the time the blood sample was drawn.
The most reasonable system (and thus one that is unlikely to be accepted by the nanny state) is to test only individuals who are involved in accidents with the penalties for being drunk and being involved in an accident (if it is to be found to be the fault of the person who is drunk) would result in much harsher penalties than if one wasn’t drunk. This makes people responsible for their actions; something which is anathema to statists. I consider myself far more impaired when driving after having worked for 36 hours straight than I do after drinking. Thus I never drove after a night on call whereas I would drive after drinking. I don’t personally know any doctors who’ve died while driving after drinking but a couple of my friends have died from falling asleep at the wheel after just putting in too many hours at the hospital.
Another fair test would be to have people demonstrate impairment in either cerebellar function or reaction time. Of course that would take swathes of elderly drivers off the road who are scary when it comes to their slow reaction times aside from those who age well.
This is the same trick the McGuinty government in Ontario pulled recently, and the Ontario Provincial Police can instantly jack with you if your BAC reads from .05 to .07. No judge, no jury, no due process, just license suspension, fine, vehicle impound and fees, and no chance to get any of that back. Repeat offenses get punished worse.
This is nothing more than classic highwayman “Stand and Deliver” thievery, which is about what I expect from the Nanny State.
Oh and as to M.A.D.D.: They’re currently nothing more than a bunch of prohibitionists and if you think they’ll be happy to stop with the current bullshit defacto limit of .05 BAC, think again.
So thats where all of our unemployed sask ndpers politicos went to. You can keep them if thats the laws they are writing.
Crime in BC is rampart…..$8 billion a year in Marihuana sales…..child porn out of control..Edmonton killing people every week, etc. etc. Now let’s harass the people who go out for a Xmas drink with their meal. If we don’t watch it they will make us registered our long guns (ha) because some Muslim killed 16 young girls in Montreal. Watch the business people who own restaurants and bars start to close….I guess it’s time to start smoking weed and other drugs….no alcohol…
Dick
“MADD is not what it appears. It is the remnants of the WCTU ( Womens Christian Temperance Union) as well as a gaggle of do-gooder Baptists. Their agenda is not to get drunk drivers off the roads. It’s to stop society from imbibing in The Demon Rum.”
Yep the same element who think guns kill people rather than people….heavens what would happen if folks could take the law into their own hands(defend themselves).
Here in Ontar–ario…this has been going on for some time….
The necessity to maintain zero to maintain my commercial licence programmed me…
Now I am retired, I must abstain becuase of conflicts with medications…or the prospect of potentially having the need for such pain management. The plus is I am a popular “designated driver”….I can park the lads’ wheels near the joint without fear of the constable, who stakes the place out(yeah they do that)…..Oh well.
Here in my hometown in Socialist Ontario the curling clubs are suffering, Legion suffering, golf clubs suffering, restaurants suffering, sportsclub suffering.
all thanks to daltons dui laws.
I for one dont stop off at the legion for 2 beers anymore its 1 & i leave, If iam going to have more i take a cab there & back.
I wont even offer a friends a ride home anymore if iam there with my car & like i said 1 beer, Its the other guy i worry about hitting me.
same at the curling club 1 beer rule & golf course 1 beer rule.
So the point iam getting to is Iam 1 person that is doing that how many others are too, Translate’s to lost revenues, and iam not even sure if that 1 beer would put me at .05.
Now iam not encouraging drinking & driving by all means & Iam positive neither are the clubs, And if you look at it from the Clubs side with the Serving Alcohol Laws they cant even think about over serving, or they would be shut down & or possibly encounter a lawsuit it the over served got in an accident.
Welcome to Ontario
Did anyone ask the street-level police officers if they wanted this? They’re the ones who have to deal with it.
Before they had the 24 hour license suspension they could utilise …granted that is also a “guilty until proven innocent” response…but it gave them the discretion to use experience and common sense to deal with the borderline cases without destroying someone’s life. And I suspect that experienced patrolmen can tell if someone in the grey area is truly impaired better than the roadside breathalyser.
What is gained by making the police’s job harder if they were dealing with borderline impaired people effectively before?
This is much more than just a bill about DUI. It’s a blunt expansion of unfettered government. Redford can move on legislation like this because DUI is a social taboo. The inference is too strong in too many minds that opposing government initiatives on DUI – however misguided they may be – somehow condones it. REDford is cleverly using taboos to condition Albertans into accepting yet more governmental power and likely even more future subservience.
The proposed legislation is designed to neatly reduce police effort and enhance revenue while placating those who demand “There ought to be law.”
Further, I’d suggest that the passage of bill 26 was undemocratic. Not only is REDford unelected – only 37 of 83 MLAs were present when the bill passed final reading.
Alberta is seizing up before our eyes. The age of spending, taxing and big government is once more upon us. And I’m bewildered by how many Albertans can’t see it.
Guilty until proven innocent is not a Canadian value, is not useful at reducing traffic fatalities, and I’m pretty sure is not actually -legal-.
If it is legal, then our legal system is badly broken and needs to be fixed post haste.
It’s almost starting to look like if you voted liberal in Alberta you’d get a more right -wing government than the conservatives , as they call themselves . At least they have the honesty to actually run as liberals . It’s time for the Wildrose party.
I am reminded of quip of the late PEI comic, Urban Carmichael, who said that he had recently joined a new activist group: DAMADD – Drunks Against Mothers Against Drunk Driving.
U newfbertans are always cackliing about our (torontario)politicians, guess whos laffing now:-))))
A good friend owns a restaurant in the Muskokas and is suffering terribly with Ontario’s .05 as people might have just a glass of wine now or none. As he told me last week restaurants break even on their food with alcohol sales as their profit source.
Premier Dad and his Liberals know this but simply don’t care if business suffers as it meets the agenda of their socialist do-gooders.
As several posters pointed out it is far easier to go after hunters with long guns or marginal drinkers or innocent protesters than blacks with hand guns, those with many DUIs or the Black Block thugs. That’s hard and expensive.
Prohibition all over again for the first time.
Well I agree with many here that having one beer is a real risk technically, and the laws are getting ridiculous they aren’t stopping there (I’m in Ontario) and will be headed to zero tolerance soon for everyone with stiffer penalties.
The question is what do they do after that when perfection isn’t reached.
lots of old tories skidding their own rigs and retiring , meanwhile the larders are getting stocked with old libs like Ric McIver and Donna Glans. Redford bought the premiership via the teachers union. expect raises next year as the payoff
this is just the start of Red conservative Alberta , Im afraid the Wildrose will only make inroads this next election, will take two to toss the tories out.
This same thing occurred with my brother in northern B.C., he was pulled over (without cause). Apparently this is allowed under these laws. Had there been a pub 20 miles down the road he was traveling, might have at least been some kind of reason to believe he may have been drinking. Then again, and more likely it was because it is a small town and the police maybe didn’t like anglos or middle-aged white males, or God knows what! The law is presently under review but is still likely to cost the driver $4000 after paying for and taking a safe driving course, and then the installation of a breath testing device for any vehicle he may have to drive, plus fines. Well, he is now out of work because of this, and they are going without taxes and the man is suffering depression. – any wonder? Cost effective? Uh-uh, and he didn’t even blow over .08.
I hope Wild Rose wins a majority of seats in the next election.
… and I hope that those within the Progressive Conservative party in Alberta stick to their guns, and stay in the P.C. party, so as to not infect those that fondly remember their liberties.
It’s a bad idea Robert, I also oppose the wearing of helmet’s while walking one’s dog on city owned lawn / parks. … for example.
Mugs >
“The question is what do they do after that when perfection isn’t reached.”
Next will be salt in restaurants, followed by overall annual intake limits. From there it’s any non-approved foods and drinks, non-approved pets, guns, imposed exercise regimes, entertainment choices, social associations, non-approved discontent, thought & speech crimes, etcetera………..
The funny thing is that everything listed above is already government controlled to a high degree already. It’s simply a matter of turning up the heat.
All the old wrinkled bastards in the Alberta PCs are bailing out. Kowalski, Evans, Leipert are quitting.
My wife and I decided years ago that when we go out, only one of us will have a drink. Unless you own your own brethalizer, no one knows if they’re safe to drive or not. Besides, that same bottle of beer or glass of wine is one quarter the price if you buy it at the liquor store. Given my abilities to always burn dinner, I don’t, however, have a problem with paying for dinner at inflated prices.
The Wildrose Party has some good Alison Redford background information:
Worth a quick look. “Endorsed by Warren Kennsilla” should send off alarm bells.
http://redfordfiles.ca/too-red-for-alberta
In my opinion this is sheer lunacy. If 23% of accidents are caused by people with alcohol in their bloodstream, it means that 77%, that is three times as many accidents, are caused by people who drink pop, juice, water, caffeinated beverages and shit like that.
These are the people the police should be hassling – they cause three times as many accidents.
The sad part is that even if WRP is elected this stupid law will not be rolled back unless Danielle has the courage to do so.
Don’t forget that the federal conservatives gave police the power to pull people over for no reason at all last year. Combine that with this MADD written law and you have a police state.
The problem is MADD and their non-profit status. I want to hear from a politician that will look into the salary and benefit package of the people running that organization. Not only are they making great money, but they keep pushing this no drinking agenda to keep themselves in the news and get more funding.
They are the problem. (but so are the alberta pcs)
A silly question maybe, but what are the chances of you blowing something if the person before you did and had alcohol?
Meaning with all the huffing and puffing going on, near the end of the night, er, checkstop, there isn’t a residual buildup inside the machine?
Has this been proven not, you know like how tazers are safe for everyone?
The .08 worked well as no one is impaired at that level, so why did they have to mess with it ? Easy money. Great cash cow and all lawyers approve. Much more fun and far better power trips for police than catching actual drunks.
What is needed is for someone to fight this idiotic legislation on constitutional grounds. That takes money and it might be worthwhile for bars and restaurants to start a fund to pay the legal expenses of the first person ready to take on the safety Nazi’s. Have Doug Christie as the lawyer for the defense. Also, we need a web site dedicated to the statist excesses of Morons Assisting Despicable Dictators.
Having done a number of reaction time/blood alcohol studies when I was a medical student I found that people varied enormously in how much a bit of alcohol would affect their reaction time. I was in the group where, in a BAC of less than 0.08%, my simple reaction time improved as a function of my alcohol level. Noticed this when I first started driving and I was able to flawlessly parallel park after 6 beer whereas I’d never attempt to parallel park sober.
6 beer will take my BAC to 0.06 which is well within the federal legal limit. This is the first time I’ve heard about BC legislation and it really pisses me off as I plan on driving to a Christmas party next week.
One way of screwing up a breathalyzer is to have a drink of liquor just before doing the test. I don’t know if the penalty for having an open bottle of liquor in the vehicle is less than that for impaired driving but any cop that accepted the results of a breathalyzer test in this situation would be laughed out of court. The only way to determine the BAC in this situation would be to wait at least 20 minutes and repeat the breathalyzer or have a blood sample drawn for an alcohol level. Given ER wait times, one would be sober by the time the blood sample was drawn.
The most reasonable system (and thus one that is unlikely to be accepted by the nanny state) is to test only individuals who are involved in accidents with the penalties for being drunk and being involved in an accident (if it is to be found to be the fault of the person who is drunk) would result in much harsher penalties than if one wasn’t drunk. This makes people responsible for their actions; something which is anathema to statists. I consider myself far more impaired when driving after having worked for 36 hours straight than I do after drinking. Thus I never drove after a night on call whereas I would drive after drinking. I don’t personally know any doctors who’ve died while driving after drinking but a couple of my friends have died from falling asleep at the wheel after just putting in too many hours at the hospital.
Another fair test would be to have people demonstrate impairment in either cerebellar function or reaction time. Of course that would take swathes of elderly drivers off the road who are scary when it comes to their slow reaction times aside from those who age well.
This is the same trick the McGuinty government in Ontario pulled recently, and the Ontario Provincial Police can instantly jack with you if your BAC reads from .05 to .07. No judge, no jury, no due process, just license suspension, fine, vehicle impound and fees, and no chance to get any of that back. Repeat offenses get punished worse.
This is nothing more than classic highwayman “Stand and Deliver” thievery, which is about what I expect from the Nanny State.
Oh and as to M.A.D.D.: They’re currently nothing more than a bunch of prohibitionists and if you think they’ll be happy to stop with the current bullshit defacto limit of .05 BAC, think again.
So thats where all of our unemployed sask ndpers politicos went to. You can keep them if thats the laws they are writing.
Crime in BC is rampart…..$8 billion a year in Marihuana sales…..child porn out of control..Edmonton killing people every week, etc. etc. Now let’s harass the people who go out for a Xmas drink with their meal. If we don’t watch it they will make us registered our long guns (ha) because some Muslim killed 16 young girls in Montreal. Watch the business people who own restaurants and bars start to close….I guess it’s time to start smoking weed and other drugs….no alcohol…
Dick
“MADD is not what it appears. It is the remnants of the WCTU ( Womens Christian Temperance Union) as well as a gaggle of do-gooder Baptists. Their agenda is not to get drunk drivers off the roads. It’s to stop society from imbibing in The Demon Rum.”
Yep the same element who think guns kill people rather than people….heavens what would happen if folks could take the law into their own hands(defend themselves).
Here in Ontar–ario…this has been going on for some time….
The necessity to maintain zero to maintain my commercial licence programmed me…
Now I am retired, I must abstain becuase of conflicts with medications…or the prospect of potentially having the need for such pain management. The plus is I am a popular “designated driver”….I can park the lads’ wheels near the joint without fear of the constable, who stakes the place out(yeah they do that)…..Oh well.
Here in my hometown in Socialist Ontario the curling clubs are suffering, Legion suffering, golf clubs suffering, restaurants suffering, sportsclub suffering.
all thanks to daltons dui laws.
I for one dont stop off at the legion for 2 beers anymore its 1 & i leave, If iam going to have more i take a cab there & back.
I wont even offer a friends a ride home anymore if iam there with my car & like i said 1 beer, Its the other guy i worry about hitting me.
same at the curling club 1 beer rule & golf course 1 beer rule.
So the point iam getting to is Iam 1 person that is doing that how many others are too, Translate’s to lost revenues, and iam not even sure if that 1 beer would put me at .05.
Now iam not encouraging drinking & driving by all means & Iam positive neither are the clubs, And if you look at it from the Clubs side with the Serving Alcohol Laws they cant even think about over serving, or they would be shut down & or possibly encounter a lawsuit it the over served got in an accident.
Welcome to Ontario
Did anyone ask the street-level police officers if they wanted this? They’re the ones who have to deal with it.
Before they had the 24 hour license suspension they could utilise …granted that is also a “guilty until proven innocent” response…but it gave them the discretion to use experience and common sense to deal with the borderline cases without destroying someone’s life. And I suspect that experienced patrolmen can tell if someone in the grey area is truly impaired better than the roadside breathalyser.
What is gained by making the police’s job harder if they were dealing with borderline impaired people effectively before?
This is much more than just a bill about DUI. It’s a blunt expansion of unfettered government. Redford can move on legislation like this because DUI is a social taboo. The inference is too strong in too many minds that opposing government initiatives on DUI – however misguided they may be – somehow condones it. REDford is cleverly using taboos to condition Albertans into accepting yet more governmental power and likely even more future subservience.
The proposed legislation is designed to neatly reduce police effort and enhance revenue while placating those who demand “There ought to be law.”
Further, I’d suggest that the passage of bill 26 was undemocratic. Not only is REDford unelected – only 37 of 83 MLAs were present when the bill passed final reading.
Alberta is seizing up before our eyes. The age of spending, taxing and big government is once more upon us. And I’m bewildered by how many Albertans can’t see it.
Guilty until proven innocent is not a Canadian value, is not useful at reducing traffic fatalities, and I’m pretty sure is not actually -legal-.
If it is legal, then our legal system is badly broken and needs to be fixed post haste.
It’s almost starting to look like if you voted liberal in Alberta you’d get a more right -wing government than the conservatives , as they call themselves . At least they have the honesty to actually run as liberals . It’s time for the Wildrose party.
I am reminded of quip of the late PEI comic, Urban Carmichael, who said that he had recently joined a new activist group: DAMADD – Drunks Against Mothers Against Drunk Driving.
Let’s not forget DAM – Mothers Against Dyslexia