SDA regular Ricardo wrote something so profound and insightful that it deserves its own thread:
“Getting Past the Vancouver Riots of 2011-06-15”
We’ll never get past it, no matter how good-hearted the people of Vancouver are in voluntarily cleaning up and lifting everyone’s spirits. The reason Canadians will never get past it is because we have set ourselves up for it to happen again, and again and again. And the thugs know they will be able to get away with it again because Canadians will simply swallow it all “with a let’s feel good about ourselves” party afterwards. The problem will continue to be with the justice system and politically-correct policing.
There was a brief interview with one of the first thugs who was arrested and charged in the riot on my local news last night. He had a big smile on his face as he left the Vancouver jailhouse and said non-chalantly: “Oh well, I guess I’m going to have to face these charges in court”. As if he was fighting a parking ticket or a minor speeding ticket. That’s because he knows his punishment will probably be even less than a speeding ticket — he probably won’t even pay a mandatory fine, much less see any jail time.
Until our airy-fairy judges can find the balls to actually hold people responsible nothing is going to change. For example, there is a thing called “restituitive/restorative justice” that judges in the U.S. exercise from time to time. Basically it means that if you break something then you pay for it (plus jail time for other charges if applicable). It means that if you break a $2,000 plate glass window, then the court clerk is waiting there after sentencing to gather your financial information and ready to put a lien on your bank account, or on that expensive flat-screen TV you have in mom’s basement. If people were actually required to pay for what they break (plus labour), then I can guarantee that they would think twice about breaking stuff. Why should the taxpayer foot the bill?
And how about getting the insurance companies and store owners involved? Let them sue the thug as well — why should the store owner have to pay for his increase in insurance rates that will inevitably follow his claim, and why should the insurance company pay in the first place when the person responsible has been arrested and convicted and can be held liable? Insurance companies have excellent investigators — better than cops — and collection agencies are quite good at making people’s lives miserable for many many years. I’d love to see that happen to the thugs — the natural offspring and spoiled brats of our “gimme gimme” Unionist, entitlement, and special interest group generation.
When I was kid we were brought up to pay for stuff we broke — even if it was an accident, we at least offered to pay. And we took it out of our allowances or part-time jobs. Sorry, but no kudos to Vancouverites and their good-will story. They’re suckers.
@ Roid-Fister: how many times am I going to have to roll my eyes over some young fool parroting deadhead remarks about how kids now are no more violent than they were in the 1940s, a subject they know no more about than they do x-ray interferometry? You tell me, Roid.
BTW: hurts, doesn’t it – the way every time you put anything in print here someone like me points it out as yet another shining example of your catastrophic stupidity? 🙂
Sorry soozbc but it will be Suspended Sentences all around because they are good kids from good homes and a criminal charge could hurt them in the long run. Just like all the drunken students who get drunk and vandalize the neighborhoods they live in every weekend. The people who worked their whole lives to buy a house and give themselves a good life don’t matter. These idiot children of idiot parents run things now. Consequences are for poor people.
I can dream $ FKA gord can’t I? I know the justice system is pretty useless right now, that’s why I came up with the creative “loop hole” for those entitled “good” kids. Avoid the criminal record and just simply do the community service. I just prefer community services with a little bite in the butt.
This may be somewhere in the 50+ preceding comments, but along with harsher penalties for vandalism, rioting, looting, burning, and the like, there has to be a drastic change in the way police handle those caught in the act, and by drastic I mean harshly. And we, the people, need to support them publicly.
When people take up hooliganism they need to be smacked down hard so that those would-be rioters in the vicinity and watching on TV or getting texts and tweets get a clear message that anti-social behaviour will be rewarded with swift corporeal pain. I really have no problem with cops drawing blood from rioters and dragging their sorry, useless a$$es to the nearest police van.
The situation will improve when Mr. First Thug Arrested finds himself in Court with bruises and contusions and perhaps couple cracked teeth.
Pain during the act and pain after the act. If either of those aren’t in place, it’s just a gong show.
Having been involved in Neighborhood groups I know that the police and courts are told to lay off students. The worst that could happen to them is they write a letter of apology to the victims of their drunken sprees.
These kids got away with it their whole lives which is why now that they are grown ups the continue on with the same game plan.
I’d prefer they got a good nightstick injury and a couple night in the local cells. They can always ask for a pardon 10 years down the line if they think their career chances have been compromised.
Don’t know what to say about Da Ping, folks, other than Da Pong half of his brain seems to be disconnected tonight. Perhaps by the same mind altering substances that fueled the nutcases Wed night?!
Anyhow, I’m having a similar discussion on Facebook with a fellow I know in Toronto who’s a lawyer. He’s also a big-time Liberal Party member. This is what I just wrote him which I think is apropos for the discussion here:
Adam, on a personal level I think you’re a good fellow. But when it comes to political/societal views we’re diametrically opposed. You’ve read enough of my comments on such matters to understand that I believe that your views, and those of your like minded Canadians, are the root cause of most of Canada’s problems today. I’m sorry, but I do.
I also accept that I may be in the minority. Here in Southwest BC I suspect I am. Ultimately, if I’m not happy with the general mindset of my community then I have the choice to leave. This is an option I may very well exercise one day.
It is often said that each of us is the sum of our experiences, especially those growing up. I don’t know what yours were and you don’t know what mine were. I will share with you though that I have a younger sibling who would have fit in perfectly well with the thugs we observed Wednesday night. From his prison cell he undoubtedly cheered them on. 🙁
Our mother once asked him how his conscience let him deal with the violation & fear he caused each of his victims when he robbed them, their homes, and their cars. His response was simple: “I don’t see what the big deal is. They all have insurance.” That, my friends, is how the criminals & thugs in our midst justify their dreadful behaviour. 🙁
The two things that differentiate THIS riot from previous Vancouver riots were the use of social media before during and after the fact, and the large numbers of ‘cheerleaders’ who came for the entertainment.
I was born and raised in Van., six decades of it.
I vividly remember the Dunbar riot at Halloween, the Rolling Stone riot, the two Mayor Tom Campbell inspired riots…back to back, Gastown and English Bay, and of course the more recent sports events.
Good summary here…
http://www.iorr.org/talk/read.php?1,1377605
Because this one was BAD doesn’t mean that previous decades were lily white.
These folks also came from B.C….they had a little more justification perhaps(?).
http://scaa.usask.ca/gallery/regina/central/riot.html
Having said all that, I’m 100% in favour of REAL justice.
Once they are done arresting the thugs, tally the damages and the clean up bill and divide it by those arrested for rioting. If they fail to pay the bill in one year they do six years federal time and are placed on a “Do not hire list for academia and the government”. Time to drop the hammer on punks, thugs in general.
Michael H Anderson
I once knew this stripper that went by the stage name Faith…does that count?
Robert, I am sorry to hear of what must be a very painful part of your private life. Rest assured, one of our trolls will try to use this information to hurt you. Just remember: they are all sociopaths who feed on other people’s pain. That is what distinguishes them from most human beings; that is why they troll.
I respond to them because I try to give back a bit of what they try to do to us. It amuses me, and – sure, I’m only human – it makes me feel good when I get to point out how much smarter I am than them. I write for a living, am half Irish, and love to see my clever words in print. 🙂
Take care and BTW – great articles and great moderation.
Over at Hugh Hewitt, who’s interviewing Mark Steyn:
HH: . . . Mark I begin—I’m so glad that I have a Canadian to talk to today because I’m upset that the Canadians were rioting last night in Vancouver after losing. What would they have done if they had won?
MS: [laughing] Yeah. Actually, a pitiful night for the Canucks and a pitiful night for the city of Vancouver too. I think there’s nothing more pathetic than the sight of pampered, middle-class western elites rampaging through the city, and Canada regrettably has some of the most useless and incompetent, overpaid, over-unionized, over-privileged police forces in the world, and, as they did in the G20 in Toronto, they proved unable and unwilling to restrain the rioters from the property damage they inflicted on law abiding businesses. But, no doubt, they will be back harassing law abiding citizens going about their business there. I’m afraid—the Canadian police actually, just to make a serious point, have seriously destroyed their reputation in recent years. You remember the famous martyr of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, the Mounties always get their man . . .
HH: Yep.
MS: On the streets of Vancouver the police failed. When it’s a choice between always getting their man or getting you, the Canadian police would rather get you because it’s a lot easier. . . .
HH: Mark, Detroit had this problem as did Southern California in Huntington Beach and Newport Beach for a long time and then the police got serious and guess what? There is no problem after the police get serious.
MS: Yeah, and I think it depends on shrewd and savvy policing and there is a shortage of that in many counties and there is particularly in Canada. I mean the city of Toronto has one of the most idiotic police chiefs on this continent. I wouldn’t expect him to get any smarter about these things after his own riots or after Vancouver.
More @:
http://www.hughhewitt.com/transcripts.aspx?id=1b83beb7-bf44-4416-a42c-4306d972225e
I agree with Mark Steyn, as do most of us here. And, as one of my students would say, unless we, as a polity, make a serious course change, “We’re doomed”!
When is the mayor and the police chief tendering their resignations? Just asking.
re: the kissing couple
I listened to an interview with the boy’s father today. Apparently, the young woman in question had been clocked in the head by a police shield (and really, you can see how slight she is; why was that necessary?). She fell to the ground, hit her head again, and her boyfriend came to her aid. According to the boy’s father, they weren’t actually kissing; he was just whispering to her, trying to console her.
I’ve watched a lot of video from Vancouver, and the G20 last year, and while I have no time for the rioters in either case, I don’t think the police should win any awards either. For a group of people who trumpet their “professionalism”, some (not all, of course) cops seem to lose it pretty quickly, and become thugs in their own right. Look at the case of Adam Nobody in Toronto – he was just watching what was happening, when a group of six cops swarmed him, and beat him severely. And being the fine, upstanding, honourable people they are, the cops responsible all “forgot” who was involved in the fracas, even though amateur video clearly identified one officer.
So to all of you who made snide remarks about the young lady – how would you like it your daughter went down to watch a hockey game, a riot breaks out that she isn’t participating in (again, according to the boy’s father, they were unsure of the best route to take to get out), and a cop comes by and slams her head with his shield? She’s lying on the ground, in an unfortunate pose, in pain and bleeding, and some opportunistic photographer takes a shot that everyone misinterprets as wanton sexuality? Shame.
Neither Mayor Moonbeam, nor Chu can deny or ignore the issue.
They are both wearing it.
They both own it, no escaping.
And now word trickles out that council/mayor denied increase in budget for police overtime….
Watch as both sides gently snipe at each other, of course until the chief resigns, what with a golden parachute and a non-disclosure agreement.
You know that when Moonbeam was out within hours in CYA mode, that he was guilty as sin.
I call it the consequence free society. No punch in the nose, no pay for what you break etc. this is what you get. This quickly morphs into the guy who does the punching or the guy who levies the fines being the bad guy. And since nobody wants to be the bad guy….
Just came back in from some soccer with my son, and there’s the Ceeb Vancouver news: apparently there’s a mini-epidemic of grapefruit-size rocks being dropped off overpasses into people’s windshields, followed by a little announcement about a woman convicted of sexual interference with children, letting the public know she “isn’t permitted” contact with children and for us – US – to let the police know if they see her doing so. Like a restraining order (and we all know how effective those are), only for a convicted pedophile.
Such stories are of course seen every friggin’ day on the news. Thanks again, Trudeaupians.
Theodore Dalyrymple’s book “Life at the Bottom: the worldview that makes the underclass” might be applicable here.
His hypothesis is that the mores and values of the underclass are celebrated and emulated by the middle class and now even our elites. A race to the bottom, a coarsening and increased criminality in our culture.
Had I been able to identify an offspring or grand-offspring as a rioter, all hell would have broken loose in the family. Forget ‘pride’ – disinheritance would have been the least of the consequences.
Hey KevinB: get bent. Seriously. How dare you sit there in your comfy office or whatever – garret, pesthole – and impugn the cops who had to deal with this situation. Get bent, a$$hole. Cops are no longer able to protect us because of knee-jerk leftist tools like you.
Valencia – fantastic, the whole premise is glaringly obvious without even reading the book – whcih I most definitely will!
We’re reaping the consequences of a 40-year hippie refrain of “violence is bad”. When you say that, and at the same time undermine the moral foundation of a society, you end up with chaos. A society in which “violence is bad” is one where only the bad are violent.
Apparently some tried to intervene, and promptly had the shit kicked out of them. And so a few hundred bullies can make thousands of supposedly honest people cower in fear.
And now even the police have become afraid. They hide behind their shields, and catch the low-hanging fruit. Maybe they need a riot “SWAT-team” to zero in on those who have just broken a window or set a fire. Chase them down, zip-tie their wrists, and throw them on a city bus.
You don’t need rubber bullets, you don’t need tear gas. You just need to be serious. Until you do, this will happen again.
I’m glad to live in Edmonton, where we won’t be having an Expo, and we likely won’t be in the playoffs for the foreseeable future.
And the list grows of surveillance and security camera images released that our entitled rioters were too fecked to realize what was going on.
London Drugs, a large retail chain here on the west coast, whose downtown store was looted for around $1 million of merchandise, has shown some of its HD photos, capturing the happy shoppers entering the store.
Over 200 images captured, with multiple yobbos mugging on the camera.
Too bad most of them will be slapped on the wrist, but that record will do more damage than any jail/probation time will do.
DanBC
I disagree…learning how to fit in with the real gangsters in remand might be enlightening…
Michael Anderson:
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I can only presume that you think a police officer beating an unarmed man with sticks, causing broken bones and other injuries, is SOP for the police, and that when his comrades on the force all develop selective amnesia, that’s to be assumed and forgiven. Or when they beat a man with an artificial leg, and then refuse to give him his leg back. Yes, I think that’s the height of professionalism.
And you think I’m a rectal orifice? Look in the mirror, pal. You remind me of the idiots parroting “My country, right or wrong”.
Kevin, you still fail to understand: I want cops to smash YOU over the head with nightsticks, repeatedly, yesterday if possible.
If that makes me an asshole in your eyes, then all is well with the world IMO, you pusillanimous pantywaist whinging puke.
Floggings at the Olympic torch, then throwing them into a bath of salt water and telling them to walk home.
What Ricardo and the bear said (sorry, KevinB, not buying the story).
And, trolls, you’re not winning here. You are actually making yourselves look incredibly ridiculous. Just stop.
The kissing couple, according to the local Global News, are already on their way back east (New York?) saying that it wasn’t as it looked. His father admits that his son has dreams of being a comedian (yeah, everybody’s going to get their 15 minutes)and he was only trying to console her. If he is such a caring man, why didn’t he get her the hell out of there during a riot? It’s all B.S.!
By the looks of it, you had to push yourself through a rather largish crowd, and sprint about 30 feet, to get anywhere near a police shield.
But, what the hell, I believe it.
Sync
I can only wish that would happen.
The cynic in me says the Injustice system will probation them, and the YOA will protect the interminably stupid teenagers, ‘protecting them from themselves.’
And the stupid yutes know one thing, and that is the YOA, and their rights to destroy and commit petty crimes, etc, while their penalties are akin to being beaten with a wet noodle.
Anderson, if posting is impossible for you without referring to personal attacks move on to rabble or some other site. You sound like you would have fit right in with the rioters.
Kevin, I agree with you. There were 13,000 officers in Toronto, maybe 100 rioters yet the police were unable to accomplish stopping them due solely to political interference then they overreacted on the Sunday and became a police mob as described aptly by several of their own officers.
I love the solution – another inquiry … funded by the taxpayer … launched by the ditz Clark. Another costly, non-solution, to an obvious problem designed to make the stupidest people in Vancouver feel good.
How about declaring a blue/green shirt day on June 15? … because we don’t want to have this happen again!!!
Just clicked onto CPAC and they are covering the NDP convention, and they have an actor reciting Tommy Douglas at the first founding meeting in 1961. a little early for horror movies I should think?
I’m all for blue/green bug day…never again will the mosquitoes decide…
Situations where our modern police officers excel:
writing up tickets, especially where the chance of payment looks good. Hmmm, lets see; working stiff who needs car and clean record to continue working. Done. And these new laws that prohibit things like cell phone use while driving or unfastened seat belts are perfect vehicles for tickets. Too easy.
Situations where our modern police officers don’t excel: protecting your shit or your head from getting busted up.
Police work changed when the criteria for cop eligibilty changed. I always recall the Simpsons episode where Marge becomes a cop and sees crime everwhere; “man jaywalking, horse not wearing diapers, man doubleparked in handicap space” (Homer by the way). The small stuff gets sweated; the big stuff not so much.
“Not on my watch – these people will be prosecut … oh, look a butterfly ”
Premier Christy Clark
Murray Dobbin’s take: http://tinyurl.com/3hql4bc
What an idiot!
Shawn: “And this is why ladies and gentlemen the Canadian government should have charged little Miss DePage when she decided to abuse the throne speech to give herself a little attention to her over inflated plight”
Correct — and what does “Stop Harper” mean in this context except anarchy? Her protest was symptomatic and we should be as angry about that symbolic challenge to civil society as we are about the Vancouver antics.
Been on vacation and haven’t been able to follow all of the comments on the riots but I have to put part of the blame on the media for their outrage over Harper’s G-20 costs for security. Also this destruction of private property doesn’t happen in the States because private security forces and private property owners are allowed to self protect their property by force ie Colt Peacemaker. Read the Riot Act and then open fire if need be, we’d have a lot less anarchists running around Canada causing us all a lot less in taxes because we all know that the final cost for this riot will be paid by us schmucks, the taxpayer.
Well golly “dave”, I don’t know who the hell you are, I don’t care who you are, and the day I start giving a damn about your opinion of me I’ll have myself checked into an asylum. KevinB didn’t say cops were stymied and overreacted due to political interference, you did and put the words in his mouth. What he said was this:
And being the fine, upstanding, honourable people they are, the cops responsible all “forgot” who was involved in the fracas…
Good enough? Same goes for any other knee-jerk cop-haters here. In my considerable experience, people who hate cops are scum, so trust me when I say I am glad as hell to be so starkly differentiated from the likes of you.
Kevin B.
So Kevin B. what exactly is your F**king point?
I was down there that evening and when Boston scored the third goal I sensed things were from bad to worse and did the smart thing and got the hell out of there, an option every single person had. Everyone that stayed in the riot area deserved every crack on the head they got compliments of the VPD. Jeez your a douche.
MHA: “KevinB didn’t say cops were stymied and overreacted . . . What he said was this: . . . “And being the fine, upstanding, honourable people they are, the cops responsible all “forgot” who was involved in the fracas…”
Michael, whatever spin this Kevin put on it, isn’t it true that the officers involved did indeed “forget” who all was involved in beating down the . . . er . . . object of their affections?
Or, were you taking issue with his characterization of such forgetfulness as being “dishonorable”?
Wow,Anderson, reread your posts, “I want cops to smash YOU over the head with nightsticks, repeatedly” you have a real anger management problem, get help.
Who is a knee-jerk cop-hater. My dad was a cop. I worked the G20 and watched these heavily armed officers just stand down and let the Black Block trash the downtown. As I stated before it is not the line officers its their political master like Miller and McGuinty, cowards all with their nanny state. After the frustrated cops were turned loose the day after the riot with authority granted by McGuinty on a obscure ruling thousands were arrested but how many were guilty of anything, 1 maybe 2, no one knows.
Read Blatchford’s “Helpless” as the OPP just turned their backs on the Caledonia citizens and let them be terrorized. Senior Superintendents were removed after criticising their superiors like Fantino and McGuinty. Other police forces refused to go to Caledonia because of this.
Here is Vancouver’s riot expert on what happened. http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/06/18/vancouver-riot-police-made-mistakes-says-author-report-on-1994-mayhem/
Posted by: Texan at June 17, 2011 6:19 PM: “…Quit your whining.”
Ok Mr. Texan, I promise to obey from now on. I promise not to speak out about the inconsistencies in our justice system, I promise to conform at all times.
By the way, what ever happened to that movement for an independent Texas? I think they called it the “Republic of Texas” or something and they even had their own flag! Did you tough Texans wimp out or something — afraid of your elected judges, are you?
We can always hope for an earthquake. BC, States of Washington, Oregan and California are populated by left wing losers. I really don’t care if their cities riot and burn. You get what you deserve. If you elect wimping mayors, hire political correct cops, have pussy judges and let you kids grow up without any discipline….what do you expect. I listened to the police chief doing his interview…what a political correct piece of crap. He thanked everyone for helping put down the riots but the people responsible for putting down the riots did nothing…the crown just got tired after a long day or drinking and kicking windows and cars and went home. Burn baby burn.
MHA:
You seriously misunderstand me. First, you call me a “leftist tool”; everyone else here knows I’m a good Tory.
Second, you seem to think police bashing people on the heads is perfectly fine. Perhaps you missed some of the following stories from recent years:
Four young, physically fit, RCMP officers try to subdue a middle aged man in the Vancouver airport by repeatedly tasering him until the man died. These were four fine physical specimens, and their only choice was to taser him four times? Then they – and this is the important point that you seem to miss, MHA, so I’m going to put in big, bold letters – ALL FOUR OF THEM LIED THEIR ASSES OFF AT THE OFFICIAL INQUEST. You think this is defensible? You think this is right? What kind of twisted morality do you have? Cops can kill people and then lie about what they did, and that’s all right with you? And you call me names?!
At the G20 last year, innocent people who were merely trying to go home were penned like animals – I don’t know what god-forsaken city you live in, but I hope it’s nowhere near me – but there are actually LOTS of people who live in downtown Toronto. An elderly couple in their 60’s were just trying to return to their apartment, but were shoved into a fenced pen with 200 people, without toilets, water, food, or even seats, and forced to stand IN THE RAIN for over two hours. I expect that if it happened to your parents, you’d blame them for returning home at the wrong time, rather than the cops.
In Montreal last week, six officers confronted a crazed man in the street, and although he was clearly delirious, he was standing in the middle of the street, without a gun, when the cops opened up with a hail of bullets. One of those bullets hit a hospital intern, who was innocently riding his bike to work. I guess you’d blame him for riding a commie bike instead of a car, rather than the police.
Just as I don’t believe people watching a riot should suddenly go in and start looting after someone else breaks the windows, I don’t believe cops should suddenly start beating people viciously, indiscriminately, and IN GROUPS of 3 or 4 cops against one. If I were a cop, and I saw someone break a window, loot something, or throw a rock – sure, I’d crack him on the head. But if I decide to arrest a 57-year old amputee, and then PULL HIS ARTIFICIAL LEG OFF AND TELL HIM TO HOP TO THE PADDY WAGON, I’d fear some action to be taken. Of course, none was. Amputee has leg ripped off by police
You seem to have the attitude that cops are better people than citizens. They are not. You seem to believe that they have the right to beat and intimidate people; absent a real personal threat, they do not. And they are supposed to be trained to deal with these things without resorting to violence first.
I could go on with further stories – two different Toronto area cops murdered their wives recently, a York region cop, driving drunk, hit and killed a citizen, and his cop buddies helped cover it up. Numerous Toronto cops – including the son of a former chief – have been convicted of stealing drugs from evidence, and reselling them to dealers. But what’s the point? You seem to think police brutality is necessary and justified in every single case; I don’t.
I have nothing more to say to you. Ever.
ping @5:17 & 5:27 – this isn’t the first time you’ve said stuff like this. If you honestly think this way – look, it’s really unhealthy. You’re obsessed with these “bullies”. Do you really think God is offing people for you? You sound like Mark David Chapman or someone. Seriously, talk to somebody.
(syncro – “ping” used to to go by the name of a hound dog.)
Posted by: KevinB at June 18, 2011 5:49 PM:
“…innocent people who were merely trying to go home were penned like animals”
Crock of bull. These were people who were deliberately trying NOT to go home. When I want to go home I don’t join myself to a mob of people standing still or sitting in the middle of an intersection blocking traffic. When I want to go home I do the opposite — I move away from the stationary mob, grab a bus, and I go home!
Lisa Laflamme of CTV also got detained — and rightfully so. She was standing with the same mob obstructing traffic after Police asked them to move. Being a reporter doesn’t give you a right to obstruct traffic or participate in an illegal act, anymore than being a reporter would give you the right to enter a building being looted by a mob together with the mob — you would still be trespassing. Reporters can just as easily get their story from the sidelines and report safely from a distance. But if they participate then they should be arrested like anyone else.
Same goes for “citizen reporters” and all the dozens of moronic voyeurs standing around with cell-phone cameras.
Heh. EVERYBODY was doing it:
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/man-riot-taunted-police-plans-surrender-022813689.html
For MHA:
I consider it an honor to be called “scum” by the likes of you. I thank God every time he sends another filthy maggot pig to rot in hell where they belong, for at least HE is truly just!