People in positions of influence read this site. Instead of complaints about the costs and compromise to civil liberties, let’s hear your ideas.
Here’s mine: implement the “work camp” model for manufacturers, distributors and processing facilities of essential goods and services.
Make rapid COVID tests available to these employers: all employees would be tested prior to the commencement of each crew shift, then housed in designated hotels or work trailers (lots of those sitting idle in the oil industry) before being swiitched out for the next crew at the end of their rotation.
Two weeks in, one week out. If it can work for mining, it can work for industry in general.
The “clean workplace” model could be expanded or adjusted as necessary to fit other commercial facilities, with the primary goal to protect employees from one another,
Your turn.
Only problem is Trudo has promised $$ to those not working.
I think it’s a great idea. Cep’t lotsa peeps gonna take govt teet instead.
I have an essential job. I get to work and for that I’m thankful. The more I see grocery workers and Canadian tire an booze clerks workers interacting with X number of people…. I wonder more everyday how far this thing is gonna go
I said in early March/late Feb… this is either the biggest thing in history or the biggest over reach……. still not sure
Edit I am not a person of influence. Sorry about that. I too want to hear better ideas than Moe and Blackie have
First, what’s with paying young people to stay home and do nothing, while importing large numbers of TFWs to do agricultural work? Why not create a temporary program that will pay any university student the equivalent of next year’s tuition in return for spending 6 or 8 weeks this spring/summer out in the fields? God knows, this worked for past generations.
Second, how can employers pay 75% of an employee’s wage when they were being paid minimum wage before they had to be laid off due to business closure? Can the govt square that circle? Or do the millions of workers in hospitality, tourism, retail etc not really count?
Third, can we assume that the latest possible date to begin to let people out of the lockup is the Tuesday after the May long weekend? Because people will be heading out on their own by then, with or without “permission”… There’s only so much cabin fever we can take.
Fourth, when the reality of who is actually most affected by the virus sinks in, and the eventual numbers for mortality rate, transmission rate, risk exposure etc become obvious, how will the doom-mongers cover their collective asses?
Why reinvent the wheel? I am truly sick of “Hope & Change”.
“The Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) was a work relief program that gave millions of young men employment on environmental projects during the Great Depression. Considered by many to be one of the most successful of Roosevelt’s New Deal programs…………”
https://www.history.com/topics/great-depression/civilian-conservation-corps
”one of the most successful of Roosevelt’s New Deal programs”
That is like saying the man who cut your arm off, successfully bandaged it up for you.
Well, unless you successfully get rid of Trudeau anytime soon he’s in the drivers seat with the bandage kits.
While the CCC was a make-work program, it did have other benefits.
Many of those who signed up were poorly educated and the CCC gave them the opportunity to finish high school or take up a trade. Camps helped local businesses, which provided food and other supplies so that the men lived comfortably and ate well. The men also earned money for their work and, after sending most of it back to their families, spent some of what was left over in the nearby communities.
Many of the projects that the CCC worked on became part of the American national park system.
But there was one result that few people, if any, foresaw. The camps were run along military lines and many of the managers were ex-servicemen. When the U. S. entered WW II, many ex-CCCers enlisted, which allowed the Americans to mobilize quicker as those men were already accustomed to military regimentation and discipline.
The problem is … make work government programs don’t create wealth. Wealth … PROFITS … is what powers our AMAZINGLY generous capitalist countries. We are now so bathed in that wealth that we take it for granted. And forget where it comes from. It comes from hundreds of thousands of PROFITABLE companies. Your college professors all lied to you when they said “profits are evil”.
At best, the fabulous Lodges created by the WPA … such as Timberline Lodge (note: the Ahwahnee Lodge was NOT a WPA Project) could be considered a profitable enterprise … over time, as these became hugely popular and command top $$ hotel rents. But the infrastructure projects are PAID FOR by American business and individual WEALTH. Nothing else can pay for such things. Pres. Trump and the US Congress cannot simply print more worthless money to “pay” for these things. If that was possible, then Zimbabwe would have world class infrastructure … instead of death, disease, and misery.
What we need to do is get our economy started NOW! Immediately.
My solution. Send everyone back to work NOW! Flip the light switch. And the elderly should self isolate … gown-up in Mylar jumpsuits and PPE to go grocery shopping or work. Their choice. And let people get the virus, fight-off the virus … and move on. And every private business should RIGIDLY enforce proper anti-viral spread good-practices. Most large manufacturing corporations have a “safety officer” to minimize accidents. These jobs should expand to include “personal health safety” … and Institute Company-wide “good practices” to minimize spread of viruses and other illness. Yes. Voluntary. By the Free Market.
It is in the self interest of every company to keep their workers healthy. They should be allowed to FIRE employees who repeatedly violate proper health precautions. Their choice. Their program. If they choose to allow remote work and teleconferencing (as most every tech company can easily accommodate) … then do it. I personally find that I am FAR more productive working at home than in any office setting … ever. At best, the government can design and provide “good practices” guidance for everyone. And for God sakes … allow the government to FIRE employees at the CDC who LIED to the American people (or were simply incompetent) about mask protocol. One would think such a fundamental action, would have been sorted and decided lonnnnnng ago.
This virus danger is no different than the danger presented by a woman (or man) drill press operator with long hair … if their flowing hair gets caught up in the machinery … they’re dead. Just like some people may be with this virus. We don’t shut down the factory, because … long hair is dangerous. No, we PREVENT ACCIDENTS. We don’t need to shut down our economy because some people might get sick … and very few … may die.
Why import temporary farm workers. If Bill Blair and all the other great thinkers want to empty the prisons put the inmates to work. Healthy out door exercise will do them a world of good.
Putting inmates to work will fail because of the culture that produces inmates in the first pace. We’d be much better off to get rid of some of the hellishly stupid regulations designed to keep certain people out and instead let more good people in from places and cultures that want to work. When was the last time you heard of a multigenerational welfare Phillipino or Uranian or Polish family? My DIL is Phillipina and she’s been trying to get her brothers and sisters-in-law into Canada forever but whenever they get close to being able to afford the money, one of them has another baby and that tacks a few more thousand onto the cost of getting in. They would come in and work for years on a farm in order to have the chance to become Canadian. The same for people from Eastern Europe. It’s nearly impossible to get Christians into this country. Meanwhile we allow huge numbers who arrive with their hand out from cultures that don’t want to work.
ALL perfectly VALID points Justin.
AGREED. We need Farmers no.? Well seems to me we could be importing any number of South Africans here into Canada. I’d welcome them with open arms.
BUT NONE of these suggestions will EVER happen. We MUST GET RID of that POS in The PMO, the Garbage in Cabinet. That has to happen, if not we are just whistling in the wind.
We are in a WAR people – and we have defacto QUISLINGS in the seats of power. TRAITORS whose allegiance is not to this country nor its people.
WEXIT first…
Ah, but those South Africans are carriers of an even worse pestilence–racism. Prinz Dummkopf, et. al., told us so.
Ban the minimum wage. The real minimum wage is zero. The step function to the next payment level renders some incapable of finding a job that matches their productivity level. How much of the “the US must import illegals” is because the jobs done by the illegals cannot legally be had by a starting-level american who isn’t skilled enough to do enough to earn a minimum wage?
Fully agreed with labour earning credits for college. It won’t make much difference for many, but it will educate some on “I better keep an eye on what I study or I’ll be doing this for most of my life.” The green-chain at the local sawmill was a great motivator for me to earn my Engineering degree.
Good ideas. I especially like the idea of the tuition incentive in exchange for agriculture work. I doubt Trudeau will go for it though, as he does not put Canada first. Note the recent generous donation to the Wuhan lab.
First new rules and public nurses and doctors take over nursing homes immediately.
Masks, instant no touch thermometers, people to wipe down surfaces everywhere we congregate like restaurants gas stations on up , and back to work.
See “Holiday crowds keep their distance to stop COVID-19 | Taiwan News | RTI” on youtube for what it should look like.
Start Monday.
How about this:
1) General Population ignore it as the rate of severe complications and death does NOT justify killing our freedoms and economy.
2) Offer large per person incentive (1/2 M$ to 1M$) to private doctors/hospitals to keep serious patients needing ICU alive and return them to health. Cost: say 100 000 serious cases in the US, that don’t die, would have cost 50-100 billion. That’s an outright steal.
Those patients stay out of regular hospitals, economy not affected, freedoms not lost. Yah, that’s a damn good bargain.
3) Any gov’t that exercises emergency lockdowns must stand down (within 6 months of declaring the lockdown) and can never run again . They are also not paid during the lockdown. That should make them think twice about doing it.
I like Frenchie77’s ideas. This thing is blown drastically out of proportion and is moving us more toward socialism.
It feels like the world is living like ‘Brave New World’.
In BC, where I live, there have been 75 deaths so far. Median age is 87. 1 person who is not a senior has died. One.
When the dust settles, numbers will be similar to annual flu numbers.
Restrict travel, proper checks on incoming flights from bad areas (as opposed to no checks on China flights as of a couple of weeks ago) and limits to large gatherings, but otherwise, let businesses operate and let people go outside.
I don’t think we have enough nurses to take over nursing homes. There are privately run nursing homes in every community. They don’t pay well, because the people who live there cannot afford to pay more money. These are seniors on limited incomes. While I don’t think the elderly are well served in many instances, there are many other needs that must be met by governments, so I don’t see a lot of change happening.
Yeah, turning private industry over to Gov’t has never been demonstrated to work. It will cost far more, the quality of care will NOT get better, and when something goes wrong there won’t be anyone to pin it on, just the faceless government. Enforcement of existing regs would work best. We don’t need more government we need less. Way less.
Talk of attempting to reopen the economy is a positive sign. The head people for golf at the PGA are talking about allowing the Colonial to go ahead in June albeit without fans.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/04/15/how-to-re-open-the-country-and-control-covid-19-coronavirus/
In order to effect ANY change, the current government has to go. It is the biggest impediment to change and has seen this crisis as an opportunity to control the willing masses (not to mention its obedience to China).
If that is not done, nothing anyone here suggests will happen.
Is there no vote of non-confidence? No ousting of any kind?
Stop ALL traffic from the border and from flights. No one goes in or out. At one stage, such actions were to protect ourselves from the infected. Now WE are the infected and must protect others from ourselves. One can thank Theresa Tam for that if one wishes. If she, like others, is applauded and rewarded for her failures, then this country doesn’t deserve to survive. No country that repeats mistake after mistake can.
Start releasing people gradually from their isolation and increase quick testing (with materials WE produce, one might add).
Workfare. No more welfare. Start planting in May.
What services can be done remotely? Improve upon that.
It’s what I have.
In order to effect ANY change, the current government has to go. It is the biggest impediment to change and has seen this crisis as an opportunity to control the willing masses (not to mention its obedience to China).
Whichever government that replaces it needs to have a cabinet consisting of qualified people, preferably with actual experience in the areas covered by their respective portfolios. In other words, no more affirmative action appointees such as Climate Barbie (who knew nothing about meteorology) or Politburo Patti (no qualifications in medicine whatsoever).
Failing that, appoint someone who has some intelligence and is willing to learn. A person with a Ph. D. in a hard science would be far better as a health minister because he or she can presumably read and draw a conclusion due to their educational background.
Again, checks and balances would sort that thing out. Snowboard instructors wouldn’t be running the country, for example.
But, because we don’t have checks and balances, we are where we are.
There is no Canadian Constitutional requirement that ANY member of Cabinet has to be an elected MP. Many Senators have been Cabinet Ministers. John Turner was a private citizen for his entire term as Prime Minister, not an elected MP.
I find it hilarious that Dr. Jane Philpott, a medical doctor, was fired from Health Minster by Trudeau, and Graphic Designer Patty Hajdu was installed in her place.
Open all up now. Quarantine the vulnerable to ‘flatten the curve’. Don’t quarantine the healthy. Broad society is unable to be sterile, get used to that idea. All of the ‘measures’ I have seen taken by public facing businesses are effective at promoting fear, not promoting any bug-curbing. Understand that politicians rule from behind, and in general have no vision and even less intestinal fortitude, as we can tell from the wide range of contradictory ‘advice’ we have been given over the last month. Understand that the human immune system is unbelievably complex and wonderful. Let it do its job. Fear not, carry on.
Seconded.
Bad language, quarantine is for sick who are contagious. Locking up healthy people who happen to be vulnerable is called house arrest and is illegal: you can recommend precautions for healthy people but you cannot force it without becoming tyrant.
Agreed. If this thing was reported properly, we’d see that it’s not too much worse than an aggressive flu. But the NIH published guidelines for doctors to put it down as leading cause of death for patients that test positive, regardless of what actually killed them. Italy is doing the same.
I’ve never understood this.
Quarantining people in nice, warm houses DOESN’T produces sicknesses? Really?
No one thought this quarantining thing out.
I suppose they thought the risk was “low”.
Agreed w/Howard, Osumashi and BA.
Govt must be ENTIRELY REPLACED with COMPETENCE….and while we are at it..??
DE – CERTIFY the Public SERVICE UNIONS.
Don’t like it, there’s work in the fields.
(polite curtsy)
Precisely.
Until the hindrances are rid of, we are back to square one.
Those services that can be provided remotely should be provided remotely from now on. Those who are too useless to use a smartphone or computer to receive said services simply don’t get those services moving forward. Time to weed these plonkers out of the system. Yes, it’s mean. No, I don’t care.
First the politicians have to inform the populace that they cannot wait until the number of cases reaches zero and no one dies. This is not a realistic goal. They have to explain that people will still test positive for the virus, and people will die while they have the virus. There is nothing that can prevent this. This is called risk management and adults do it every day of their lives. If we didn’t we would be paralyzed with fear and would never set out of our houses, about like now for some of the people.
They then need to establish points where they will increase, or decrease, the requirement to lock down. Say, daily decreasing positive cases based on a trend line or 3 day average to loosen restrictions. That way a single spike in cases doesn’t cause a spastic reaction by the politicians or people. If the trend starts increasing, set a break over point based on the number of daily cases that can be handled by the local hospital over a 1 week period. Reactions must be local. Just because Vancouver or Victoria have an outbreak doesn’t mean you shut down Kelowna! Then institute tougher measures again in those jurisdictions until the rates start to come back down into the “safe to work” area. We need to eventually get back to normal. People have an odd resiliency and short memory for bad stuff. It would help if the UNIFOR media didn’t harp on it all day, every day too.
Maybe the “experts” in Canada could talk to the Taiwanese real experts. Ignore China on this one. The could even consult with the South Korean experts. They seem to have a handle on how to deal with the ongoing infections while keeping their society working. Some examples from Taiwan were repetitive temperature surveillance. Private owned stores setting up their own IR, with more exact contactless temperature verification. Ample use of hand sanitizer and masks in public for a while. Doing our best to quarantine the sick, not lock up the healthy. Protect the most vulnerable too. Focus on contact tracing and testing.
I am not sold on mass testing, mainly because you need to do it repetitively. I could be fine today, and in two days I could pick it up. If we opt for mass testing, what interval? If people are wearing masks, even home made cloth ones, then they will be much less likely to spread the virus through droplets, even if they are asymptomatic. Would I wear a mask full time? If that is the price to open the economy, then yes. I can hear the howls, give me a mask because I will not make or buy one myself! That could be a problem if there are no masks to purchase, so I guess the government would have to hand out something to start with, and then tell people to source a cloth mask themselves. Lots of chance for local private businesses to fill that void. With the CERB and governments handing out extra welfare money I am sure everyone can shell out a few bucks themselves.
Above all, we need to get things going again, now. Small businesses will be going bankrupt soon. If I was a small business owner I’m not sure I would want to get a loan, even an interest free loan, and carry that extra load depending on how much capital I have sunk, or how much money I still owe before that loan.
My fear is not the virus but rather … a government who will now and forever use this as a reason to check and see ‘IF YOUR PAPERS ARE IN ORDER’ … whenever and wherever they wish.
We are at a critical point in out democracy. We are either a free people or we are not … ‘NOT’ seems to ring louder than ‘ARE’ these days.
My fear is how easily the populace is going along with all of these measures and even demanding they get stricter, go on longer, etc. THAT is how a free society dies: “Lock us down for our own good! We can’t be trusted to make decisions on our own!”
Last weekend down here in NS, a rural church set up a “drive in” service on Easter Sunday. They discussed it ahead of time with public health authorities. Worshipers stayed in their vehicles. They were kept > 6 feet apart. They even had some volunteers (as I understand it) sort of patrolling the grounds to make sure everyone kept their distance. Public health approved it.
The BACKLASH to that service getting the approval has been almost hysterical here. Social media’s blown up with condemnation. I imagine the call-in shows weren’t any better. All of the militant atheists and anti-Christian bigots foaming at the mouth, along with all the “Karens” shrieking their outrage and howls of disapproval.
Well yesterday Dr. Strang (NS chief public health officer) reversed himself in response to the backlash and said he will grant no further approvals to such services.
Therefore the state has now granted itself a hard veto over the holding of religious services – TO THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE.
That is one cold chill on my spine.
I agree totally J-West.
It’s the first thing on everyones mind that I talk to.
Governments think they can quietly slip this in.
THEY ARE WRONG
If mass testing were widely available, and rapid, then it wouldn’t be a big deal to retest. We need real information, not the output, and guess work that went into, computer models.
And when the inevitable government excuse of “not enough tests” is uttered, point out there could be if the effort was made.
First off, revise the statistics to remove those residents who were infected and/or died in long term care facilities and nursing homes. This group is skewing the figures and response. Then with the new statistics give an estimate of mortality of the virus for the working population i.e. those aged between 18 and 65. Also give figures on the number of people who die in Canada on any given day. This will work to reduce the panic. Quarantine the above facilities which obviously contain a vulnerable population. Learn from the Italian experience that large hospitals are potential hot zones for infection and designate or convert buildings for COVID treatment while allowing hospitals in major cities to continue treating other ill patients who will not run a risk of infection. Could empty church halls school gymnasiums be converted to COVID-19 treatment centres? One friend of mine who is a medical doctor and works as a surgical assistant is eligible for and will be applying for the CERB. With the new stats for the working population, reopen the economy. For those have had the virus and recovered, perhaps issue certificates with indications as to when it was diagnosed and its severity to help with learning about Covid-19’s prevalence and possible immunity? I am thinking back to the time when the W.H.O. issued black and yellow passbooks to indicate smallpox immunization.
As said above.
Isolate and protect the Old Folks Homes. With the military if necessary.
Provide protection to seniors and those with compromised health, yes, with gubmint funding, even to replace their wages if they cant work from home.
Have HCQ/ZPac/Zinc combo pacs ready and widely distributed, ready for anyone and everyone as THE PRIME TREATMENT. The Chinese, French, and American medical establishments have proven the worthiness of this treatment. Its a 65 year old drug that Lupus patients have survived on, for their lives. We’re talking a 2 week treatment.
More people have died of the flu, still, to this day. More will die next year of the flu, than the bat induced Wuhan flu.
Get everyone back to work, NOW. There are no excuses, except for the power mad and paranoids who want their delusions fulfilled.
This looks like either a YUGE overestimated non-crisis, or, give the public its due, we practiced distancing and it has reduced the impact. Majority of the dead were in the old folks homes, average age of death 73. But we’re making people pay for it in the 20s, 30s and 40s, and they will pay for years, and dearly.
This is not wishing hardship on the old. Its about protecting them, SMARTLY, while carrying on life as we know it, rather than paying people to stay home, running massive deficits, debasing our currency, while TRUDY BUYS HIS NEXT ELECTION.
And NO, the Americans strategy is no better, they are debasing their currency with more reckless abandon than the Trust Fund Twins.
Fighting a 21st century virus with a 19th century strategy, is a ticking time bomb of epic financial proportions.
I, too, have been one of the lucky ones, both if us are essential workers and can easily work from home, telecommuniting, conferencing, and producing. But I take no joy in this backward reaction to a controllable disease, which has more than potential, to financially destroy millions of people.
I don’t see leaders, I see cowards, in Tam, Henry, Trudy, Whoregan, DIx, KENNEY, FORD, the whole lot of them, Shameful and paranoid behaviour, brought out by the mayors in BC, Island citizens telling everyone to go away and stay away. Yeah, those are real neighbourly people………..NOT!
Our kids are guaranteed to be debt slaves forever! I used to think they may or may not, Now, with this reckless money printing, it is guraneffingteed.
Raise the standard of cleaning for all health facilities.
My friend pointed out to her doctor the dirt on the floor beside her bed which the cleaner assiduously avoided touching for 4 days. Result: the floor was finally cleaned properly.
My husband was moved into a room that had such a sickening smell and stain on the carpet that I couldn’t eat lunch with him, and then I noticed how absolutely filthy was the sink and counter right beside his bed. I told one of the male cleaners that I would bring in my cleaning supplies and give that area a good cleaning. It took no more than an hour for my husband to be moved to a clean room with new carpet.
If the cleaning isn’t done properly, do no tolerate it.
Carpet?
Ew!
A lot of hospital staff are imported from shitholes where a dirt floor is normal, so a hospital floor covered in dirt looks really clean to them. They just ain’t raised right to be responsible for hygiene in a hospital, and the next level of management is too lazy/too scared to call their workers on it.
(Yes I have family who work in hospital settings in TO)
Worked as a relief housekeeper during high school at the University of Alberta Hospital in Edmonton, during the late 1960’s. The housekeeping staff were mostly from the Caribbean and let’s say that their standards of cleanliness were NOT my standards of cleanliness (I was 16 and 17 during those summers).
A good example was one day, I tackled a pile of dried up vomit and feces on the floor near the heating unit. For it to have solidified, it must have been there for quite a long time. I also saw housekeepers using the “rag” which was used to clean the toilets, to clean out the bassinets for new-borns in the maternity ward.
I have tried to avoid hospitals ever since.
My mother was a nurse and often pointed out that cleaning was half the battle in keeping people healthy.
She was appalled when she came to this country and saw the filth in hospitals.
Remove welfare rolls by making people clean hospitals properly. Pay them well, too.
nationwide equivalent to chicken pox parties , summer camps or equivalent to expose the under 18 , and least likely to succumb demographic to the virus , re leased when cleared. much as this sounds like China , they might have herd immunity developed by herd systems over there. BTW , i think their numbers are cooked
There has been little evidence yet that a recovered patient has ANY immunity. In fact, there are reports of recovered patients being re-infected and re-hospitalized in South Korea and Japan. There are studies showing some recovered patients have very LOW counts of the anti-bodies that would supposedly provide immunity to them in the future.
Much more research is required before we try the “Herd Immunity” route. Boris initially tried this in the UK and Sweden is on its last legs of this method. The numbers of sick and dead in the UK overwhelmed any political support for attempting herd immunity, and the numbers in Sweden are about to do the same to its government.
What Howard said.
What we are doing now is only kicking the can down the road and not even doing a good job at it.
Its on purpose. The can kicking will go on as long as the sheeple remain on the curb.
I agree wholeheartedly with the camp idea.
Adopt rapid testing for all people still working. Frontline health care, seniors home and food workers get tested daily. Make the test randomized for essential service workers in order to find out an approximate level of contagion in the community.
Make public how Boris Johnson went from going into ICU to testing NEGATIVE in 5 days.
People need hope. Explain the procedures required to scale up production to have enough of the drugs or space to minimize potential ICU visits or possible death.Tell the public it will take time to get there.
Those individuals who have preexisting health conditions like diabetes, kidney, lung and heart problems must stay isolated. Make masks available to them and sanitizer.
Make public the Zelenko protocol, use of Actemra preventing cytokine storms and Hydroxychloroquine anecdotal results.
Prepare allotments of these drugs to every regional health district. If they are used rapidly designate that area under caution advisory. Address the shortages as necessary.
Stop the bullshit of “masks dont work” etc.
Dont expect the public at large to allow CCP China to avoid repercussions. CCPs decision making process regarding misinformation and restricting CDC assistance is unacceptable. Start with denying Huawei 5G access in Canada.
Telus must remove all Huawei gear within 2 years unless cleared by the Canadian Defense dept and US 5 eyes representatives.
Start answering questions with REAL answers when addressing the media.
Stop with the RCMP double standard and your totalitarian aspirations. Weeks before Wuhan Flu hit we watched Canada get shutdown by native blockades and the Federal government DID NOTHING for Canadians at large.
The RCMP DID NOTHING to stop a few people from willfully destroying our economy. (At least the terrorists have stop derailing trains because of Wuhan Flu).
You have no idea how enraged Canadians are about this double standard.
Now governments want to enact laws with fines of $500,000 to $750 for violating social distancing, enter homes without a warrant, set aside and trash citizens NATURAL RIGHTS and even force them to install tracking apps on their cell phones or have them installed permanently for accessing a government website.
You Motherfuckers better walk back those totalitarian intrusions into law abiding citizens lives forthwith.
You should also act quickly, Spring is upon us…..
No damn government camps. You would think someone would have some knowledge of history.
I want electrified fenced FEMA camps, for all Liberals!
We could ship them in by train from all the cities, make them work for their keep.
Only a few of us geezers have any recollection of the history we were taught in school or actually lived through.
They do not teach anything in school anymore … at least not anything that is relevant to knowing how to live and take care of one’s self. Just how to bitch and squawk about absolutely everything.
I NEVER said government camp, Old White Guy did. That’s quite the leap you made.
It reminds me of…….Fake News.
I was seconding Kate’s work camp model.
Right now the coop refinery in Regina have their workers on site 24/7 until the lockout is done. My bet is they have ZERO incidents of Covid flu.
It means you are 100% isolated from society. Work to hotels that are EMPTY. It should be mandatory for health care workers in seniors homes.
The Kearl Lake Oilsands Operation has an outbreak happening at its camp. This “Work Camp” idea does not work unless you have universal virus testing with results in minutes.
That’s exactly what I described: a “clean workplace” protocol that utilizes rapid testing.
owg from CNN totally misses the point and writes. “Quicksilver says”
Paul from The Onion chimes in.
J-West looks in a mirror and realizes he’s become Rachel Maddows newest producer
Fake. News.
Sport, no government camps ever. Read some history. What is said I mean. I don’t care about all the baffle gab and BS surrounding this flu bug.
What Quickslver said.
All of it….
What to do about the chi-com covid?
While most work to flatten the curve, Trudeau aims to flatten both the economy and the country.
Taiwan’s response to the chi-com-covid seems top notch, next door neighbors to the chi-coms with few health impacts & a functioning economy. The chi-com-covid has large asymptomatic spread & significant lag time. Among its many protective measures – Taiwan uses masks.
In the April 7 Dark Horse Podcast, Bret Weinstein makes a solid case for Bandannas. 45 minute mark to 55 minutes. 10 minutes everyone should listen to.
Golden rule sorta thing – wear a homemade mask or bandanna to protect others, if we all do this we are all protected. This doesn’t replace other measures like washing hands, physical distance etc but augments them. The more non government, non pharmacological measures we can implement ourselves, the more we slow the spread and the easier for leaders like Kenney to open our economy back up.
Ralph Klein said his secret was to find out where the parade was going and get out in front. We need a marketing/education, viral campaign (sorry) that makes it easy for politicians to support. I suggest bandannas with a Buffalo image, or Alberta Strong, or I love pipelines etc, but what ever floats your boat.
Trudeau & his media troops will blame all future chi-com-covid deaths on leaders like Kenney for opening the economy back up, against the advice of our betters in Ottawa etc. We citizens need to have our leaders back, and inoculate them as best we.
The chi-com-covid is real, many will die from it. But its not a simple straight forward threat, its a multi faceted phenomena that presents authoritarian types with opportunities they will not waste, its the perfect crisis for our time. Even more will die if we allow politicians like Trudeau to use the chi-com-covid to crash our economy into a great depression.
Not an expert, just a citizen and I’d like to express my heartfelt thanks to Kate for her blog, I’ll be forever grateful she decided to yell back at the radio!
Virus management is beside the point. It will pass through the population until herd immunity is reached, regardless. All that the world is doing is prolonging the agony.
The main problem is that people have trouble facing that, and a fair few are panicked. To be fair it is unpleasant, even if it has been exaggerated.
Firstly make sure that the published Covid death rate includes only those actually killed by the disease, not everyone who died that might have it. An awful lot of the victims were at death’s door anyway.
That will reduce the published number of deaths and thus the panic.
That done re-open schools, and anywhere else people under thirty might meet, this engendering herd immunity in those likely to suffer least.
Then do the same for under 50s, under 60s, etc.
“It will pass through the population until herd immunity is reached, regardless. All that the world is doing is prolonging the agony.”
That’s what “flatten the curve” means, but I don’t think most people understand that. I certainly didn’t see most of them in Calc 102 class.
Some lady Internet commenter: We all need to stay home so we can get through this as quickly as possible.
Me: Lady, the quickest way to get through it is for everybody to go outside and for the next 48 hours have one giant make out session in the streets.
Herd immunity for infuenza only happens because 70-80% of the population gets a new vaccine every year. There is no herd immunity for the common cold, ebola, or many other viruses. The evidence so far is that many recovered patients have little immunity to the CCP virus, having few blood antibodies to fight COVID off, and that some of these patients are getting RE-INFECTED in Japan and South Korea.
I don’t have a problem with what you said but I’m over fifty smoke and had a heart attack and its my choice if I work or hole up.
My problem is with Governments talking sacrifice , like your a child, and the reward being talk, walk, and do as I dictate, after.
Not much of a sacrifice.
I understand flattening the curve, three kids are in healthcare, and my mother is in senior apartments.
I’ve come to terms with Wuhan flu back in January I make it or I don’t. If I haven’t already had it.
It’s soon time to sht or get off the pot.
They should have been tougher from the get go.
Good idea, Kate.
Also a blanket release of liability for Wuhan flu transmission to every employer.
How about we look after the sick quarantine those in nursing homes and let the healthy get back to work and a normal life. No more government interference. Pat seems to sane and rational with her approach. However as an old guy I take exception with being told I should wait. Why should I wait they will let me die anyway, that is the protocol. The ginned up fear has done nothing to save a single life. There sure are bunch of extreme fascists out there.
..There sure are bunch of extreme fascists out there…
And Far Far too many out there on social Media urging others on.
My typical response to most is remember these 3 words as you are Advised to take that train to a Covid Re-Education / Re-Settlement camp (for the soon to be crime: “Spreading Covid-19 Misinformation”)
Arbeit macht frei.
What floors me is the numbers who would willingly get on that train.
steakman. My point exactly.
My ten ideas
1. Antibody Tests come out next week. Start lining up people to be tested prior to return to work. Assign them to tasks that require people to interact closely.
2. Masks (and glasses) for everyone. They will not stop you from getting infected, but they will stop you from infecting anyone else. Everyone changes masks at mealtime. Wash your hands, remove mask and put in plastic bag for washing later, wash your hands again, and then wash your glasses, face, and hands. Eat, wash hands, mask up.
3. Optional – Gloves, wear them, wash them regularly, or clean with disinfectant cloths often.
4. Shifts, keep the same people working together as much as possible, so no people infect multiple crews. Can you schedule work 7×8 or 7×12 on, and 14 off?
——
Plymouth MN Police reportedly work 5×12, then 15 off, with the expectations they Quarantine. If anyone is infected, they will hopefully show symptoms before the next work week.
——-
Prisons are separating cell blocks from each other with separate meals, exercise times, etc.
5. Clean, clean, clean. Floors get contaminated from droplets. Mop them regularly with bleach. Clean shoes – Shoe sole disinfection stations between areas. (Carpets or towels wetted with water and disinfectant you scrub your shoes on, and then dry on carpet. Replace these several times a shift.)
6. Do as much as possible OUTSIDE. The sun and wind are great for killing virii and germs.
7. Time is another great viricide. Give work areas unoccupied time for the virus to decay away if possible.
8. UV Light and Ozone are also great unoccupied area virus killers.
9. Clean the heck out of bathrooms. Chinese Coronavirus is spread via feces (yes – poop). Consider adding temporary separate hand washing sinks outside away from bathrooms too.
10. In general, Avoid Other People. Do it at a distance, electronically, or may be, not at all. Separate work stations and stagger shifts and days off.
“hopefully show symptoms before the next work week.” There is your problem right there, in a nutshell. Your work camp idea ONLY works with universal testing with results in minutes.
Start with a realistic definition of success. What is an acceptable number of Covid-19 deaths? And zero isn’t an acceptable answer. Until you have an answer to that question, you can’t even begin to plan.
Dare I say ‘flu levels?
Robert if it gets to 2018 flu levels then over 3 million people will die because that was the death toll from the “flu” in 2018. It didn’t seem bother anyone then why now?
I keep coming back to this comparison… honestly, the flu kills more people.. Sure sure there are 2M infected that we know of, but just ask yourself, have we EVER mobilized the entire global health system to test for the flu? Imagine yourself going into the ER last year with a bad flu and saying, “I think I have the flu, my joints ache and I have a fever.” They would have laughed at you and sent you home without testing. We’ve NEVER tested this many people for anything. So all “numbers” that they are using to bash us over the head are meaningless because there’s no valid comparison. Also, all “rates” are meaningless. Rates of deaths of confirmed cases, confirmed case death rates per capita… all meaningless unless you test the entire population (using statistical sampling) to understand the true infection rate. Because if it turns out that the entire population has been exposed and the true death rate is 0.00001% then we’re going to look pretty fucking stupid. One more thing… this entire thing has exposed a big vulnerability in our society. And I’m not talking about vulnerability to infection from a virus. I’m talking about vulnerability to infection from hysteria. And if they aren’t already, the CCP are going to be paying attention to this and weaponizing it. We all need to stop reading the news. Immediately.. and I include this blog in that.
Finally found the site you’re using (worldlifeexpectancy dot com?), and it includes pneumonia in those numbers, which is usually not caused by the influenza virus. Sorry, but the 650,000 per year estimate that I’ve found on many other sites seems a lot more believable.
old white guy,
Where do you get that 3 million number from that you keep mentioning? Every source I’ve found indicates that it’s closer to 650,000.
The number came from a site that tracks deaths and the year was 2018,. 8,727,670 died of heart disease that year. 6,221,072 died from stroke, and 3,177,204 died from the flu. these numbers represent world wide deaths. I usually have to look up what is post so I always expect others to be able to find what I have. I will tell you how it works when a democrat is in power in the US. In 2009 61 million Americans were infected with the swine flu, 12 to 18 thousand died, don’t ask me why the 12 to 18. but, Obama was in office. Does that answer a question for you? Not one thing was shut down. we are being lied to because we are stupid and will accept lies. The lie is going to expand exponentially, even more so than the virus.
“And zero isn’t an acceptable answer.”
Because it’s the wrong question, the wrong metric. The correct metric is how many people need inpatient care in a unit of time that doesn’t over stress inpatient facilities of the region.
I’m convinced I had this shit back in November. Chop chop on making the antibody test more available so folks who have immunity can know and get the fuck back to their lives. Not having to pump a rushed and unnecessary vaccine into my body would be double plus good.
I like Trump’s idea of opening up our economy in phases. I have three grown stepsons. One works as a computer analyst out at the Kitimat project, and he had told me the construction project there is still going on now. Another stepson works at a lumber mill in Doaktown, an isolated rural village in central New Brunswick. He tells us operations at the mill never stopped. The third stepson works as a security guard in Toronto, still working, and he tells us of humungous numbers of s.d. infractions in a city whose economy essentially stopped.
So much of rural, small town Canada has never stopped operating. So “government decrees” should start by allowing rural Cansdz to function with limited social distancing rules, then gradually allowing denser popilated areas to open up. The last places to open up would be the dense cities with subways.
The government can’t properly manage a supply of safety masks, can’t ramp up simple testing procedures, and can’t issue simple approvals for small company to produce face shields. You expect them to be able to phase-in the restart of an entire economy in a few weeks? You have a lot more faith in bureaucracy than I have.
I am an “essential worker” in an “essential industry. They have sent everyone home who does not have to be at home. hey have upped our security to include FLIR cameras to take our temperature as we come in. They haven’t done it yet, but if this continues they plan on reducing our shift schedule from 5 crews to 4, to maintain a pool of healthy replacements. If that doesn’t cut it, they will quarantine guys on their off hours in a hotel and have security transport us back and forth to work. If we start showing signs of being sick, but aren’t dead yet, they will make us wear medical PPE at work, so we can’t spread it, and assign security guards to us to make sure we obey all the correct precautions to not infect other people. Hopefully it will never get that far. Other that rescheduling all unnecessary work – which becomes very necessary if you put it off too long – which is actually making it a bit quiet, for me at least it’s work as usually, which I have to leave for now.
None of those actions will stop the spread of any virus.
In my employers case it’s about keeping the lights on come hell or high water.
It really is not necessary. I will also state that all jobs are necessary to the person who has eat and work to do that.
Correct, every job is essential.
Ramp up industrial production for masks, etc by paying more.
Make mask-wearing mandatory in public and start a make-it-yourself campaign.
Test as much of the population as possible at testing stations at congregation points – supermarkets, transport centres, beer & wine stores, etc.
Let people go back to work; only isolate the infected and infirm.
Who could have possibly foreseen the concentration of deaths in nursing homes?
“…Make mask-wearing mandatory in public and start a make-it-yourself campaign…”
yea, the mandatory part..? not fkn happening. I will NOT Wear a mask period. I will however wear my Bandana…
The bottom line in this epidemic is that we NEED Herd Immunity. The only way that occurs is if 80+% of the population is exposed…Anything else is a FREAKING merry go-round and Complete waste of time….as our Economy flows into the gutter.
Isaac Ben-Israel demonstrates, using statistics from other countries, that isolation produces no different results than non-isolation. He can’t explain why there is no difference.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/top-israeli-prof-claims-simple-stats-show-virus-plays-itself-out-after-70-days/
I heard about this on Townhall.com, but the header for the article was removed, so here is a different source. If it is true, then all of the measures taken for quarantine are essentially a waste of time, just like the flu.
“He can’t explain why there is no difference.”
Because viruses gonna virus. The minute the first European shook hands with a Native American in friendship the native population was doomed to a deadly viral pandemic and there was nothing anybody could have done about it.
He added: “I strongly urge that we not let mathematicians — who know nothing about biology — determine when we lift the lockdown.”
But apparently it’s OK to let biologists – who know nothing about mathematics – determine when we institute the lockdown (based on mathematical models)…
Math>Physics>Chemistry>Biology
The camp method to which Kate refers is a pretty good one, and Saskatchewan has some good experience here. That’s exactly how Saskatchewan’s uranium mining industry works. So yes, if it works in the mining industry it can potentially work anywhere.
Gellen’s notion of driving up the standards for cleanliness are also very good, and those I suspect are going to happen anyway regardless of government regulations.
Glitter
Education is the best form of changing beliefs and behavior.
A nursing friend of ours explained a powerful real life tool demonstration used while teaching hygiene in rural communities in Africa. It can be applied to today’s dilemma.
Have an area which is commonly touched by the greatest number of people in your place of business. Coffe room counter ledge, exiting washroom door handle, business enhance door handle, you get the picture. Apply some tiny glitter to that surface.
In 10- 30 minutes call a team meeting. If people haven’t already noticed, get them to inspect themselves and each other for the glitter (virus) spread and contamination.
The cleaning session to rid the business of the glitter will be a lesson which will be remembered for a lifetime, a stark reminder of how quickly germs/glitter spreads and how to best take the seriousness of PPE to help mitigate the spread.
Step one: Stop moving the goal posts.
Step two: Realize we have “flattened the curve” and undo all this nonsense.
Step three: Never again allow the virologists and computer modellers to dictate public policy.
While we’re at it do the same with climate change modellers. At least the average public health scientist has had plenty of training in statistical analysis. For most climate change modellers their training consists of letting them play with a stats program and see what they can come up with while fiddling parameters and manipulating data until they get the ‘right’ answer. If we had put only a small fraction of the money that has gone into the climate change boondoggle into pandemic prepping the virus would never have gotten out of China in the first place.
Develop a reliable test and quarantine those who actually have the virus. Everyone else get on with life.
I believe we need to think short-term and long-term.
Long-term we can predict another virus (over and over), be it a corona type or other, so we are currently in an examination. For the next event will we be locked up sooner, tighter and longer? Probably and that’s because we are failing right now. It is Liberty versus Fascism, Risk versus Totalitarianism. Who’s side are you on?
Short-term we have massive unemployment continuing, massive debt accumulating, business failures, mortgage forfeits and so on. You may see discounts initially (airline flight anyone?) when things do start to open up, but then the price of everything is going to rise and inflation will be a hammer. Handouts will make things worse. Ever heard of wage and price controls? Yikes!
Solution: world wide protection of individual liberty and the destruction of socialism/fascism once and for all.
Buddy, yes, the destruction of all forms of socialism/fascism. “Those who give up liberty for safety will soon have neither”. a paraphrased quote.
I want to see more detailed information about infections, hospitalizations, ICU admissions and deaths available in the public domain. Also, I want to see the breakdown by age and underlying health conditions as well.
Making this available is a hallmark of open democracies.
The information can and would be used by various groups. Their analysis and recommendations could and would add to those being made the “experts”. There is no question that this approach would improve the overall understanding of the information and that the recommendations coming from other groups would add to the soundness of decisions in handling the current situation and in the preparations to restart the economy.
Keeping this information from the public is bad public policy.
In my employers case it’s about keeping the lights on come hell or high water.
Bury the dead.
Treat and quarantine the sick.
Isolate the very old, those with serious pre-existing conditions, and the mainstream media.
Everybody else, BACK TO WORK …STAT!
Rename this site “Social Distancing Animals”
-grin
What is really neat – and entirely predictable – in our area is that the innovative responses of non-union private enterprises stand out in stark contrast to the pathetic efforts of governments. As a matter of fact, the only stories I have heard about government responses concern petty little bureaucrats and enforcement dickheads doing their best to piss off an already stressed public – a harbinger of what we can expect from government parasites once the dust settles and they realize that now their usefulness and necessity might really face some serious scrutiny.
So, if we want any lasting good to come out of this, it will be incumbent upon the private sector to form peer alliances and take on that which is useless and counterproductive in government. This would not be an easy thing. And in many cases, farmers for example, it would mean accepting the truth that their organizations are part of the problem and would continue to run interference for the other parasites if allowed to remain in place.
Remove the government from delivering any service or product that can be supplied by the private sector.
Including health care and education. (Public funded health and education accounts directed by the individual). The patient or student becomes an asset, not a liability to some obscure bureaucrat.
It’s the government intervention that screws everything up distorting the markets by picking winners and losers when they know nothing about the markets they are interfering in.
I agree with remove gov’t from education. I am a 60 year old batchelor paying education tax for children I’ve never had. Let user pay.
People in position of power are almost entirely corrupt crooks on the payroll of more corrupt crooks. If they read this site, the do so only to gauge how soon we will hang them. At the moment they are content that that perspective is pretty distant.
If we assume the worst, and that worst is that accidental or not, Chicom has used this disaster to promote their agenda of running the world into a communist fascist dictatorship, we must assume there will be a second wave of something else just as soon as we start getting back on our feet. In evolutionary history it is never one event that causes extinction. It is multiple waves of plague/asteroid hits/rapid environmental change. Expect Chicom to do this again, and again, and again. I predict our electrical supply will be the next target. Therefore we must do several things now. 1) Get each nation back to being independent in critical supplies, not just for pandemics. That includes things like transformers that are only made in China. 2) Secure the supply chains for food. My last trip to the grocery store I saw empty shelves and limits on cheese, eggs, toilet paper, yeast, flour, and tomatoes were $5.99/lb. While we’re at it, we need to start encouraging self sufficiency for every Canadian, Victory gardens and such. 3) Move our pharmaceutical industry back to each country. The thought that my blood thinner pills are dependent on the good will of the Chicom is keeping me awake at night. China is our enemy and it’s time to treat them like Iran.
How about just open up the schools and open up the economy all in one swoop.
Quarantine the vulnerable, mostly older folks at risk.
Simple, no bureaucrats adding to their power. Attain herd immunity.
This lockdown should never have happened if Trudeau sought advice from Countries successfully dealing with COVID from the start like Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore etc..
Instead it was an over reaction to Chinese propaganda spread by the WHO.
Millions will be in financial hardship and thousands dead as a result in North America alone.
An utter and absolute failure from the most incompetent PM this country has ever seen.
We need to withdraw all funding to the UN and associated agencies immediately, they and China conspired to damage our economies and Trudeau helped them do it. He should be forcefully removed from office and charged accordingly for this conspiracy.
Yes. Just lift the lock down. The sooner the better. We have already flattened the curve. You cannot prevent death by denying life. We seem to be trying to do just that. We seem to have created a monster that we now do not know what to do with. Time to face life with courage and realize that we cannot control everything. A virus will run its course. Some people will die, but most will live. They should be allowed to get on with their lives. 68,000 people died in the US in the flu epidemic of 2018. Does anyone remember?
Spend the wage subsidy money / CERB on the best contact tracing program the world has ever seen. Use the creepy google data and everything else. Heck make it mandatory that everyone install the app and provide devices for people without them with the caveat that the program needs extension every month or something. Lock down care homes and the elderly. Trudeau can stay in self isolation.
No mandatory nothing from government.
They have done enough damage.
Pay for damages to business forced to close.
Then be done with all related programs.
No, James.
Work camps kill. I have lost seven friends to suicide in work camps. Absolutely not. They are cesspits of drugs and prostitution. And that was people who were there more or less of their own free will. I’ve spent too much time in those things earning a living for me and my family. Forcing men into work camps? No. I’ll pick up a rifle first.
The appropriate thing to do is manage the risk for those most at risk. People keep talking like this thing is the zombie virus. It isn’t. The vast majority of people are unaffected. Isolate the tiny minority of people most at risk and leave the vast majority of people alone.
In the meantime remove the uncertainty about the mortality rate and infection rates. Invest more money in testing for anti-bodies. Invest more money in finding out who dies because of the virus or dies for other reasons while infected with the virus. Be clear with people about the actual risks and how best to manage those risks with their personal choices.
How did my proposal get transformed into a “work camp” ???
Jesus people, I asked for solutions. Legitimate plans that would stop the closures of packing plants and processors.
Because that’s the real world of what’s happening, if you haven’t noticed. But most of you haven’t, because you’re still picking at your political navels while mindlessly chanting “but the flu”.
[I started to reply to this but then saw the comment about “wall and shoot them”. Goodbye. You’re going to the spam filter. – ED]
Who is ED?
EDitor
Your proposal Kate is too expensive, will take too much logistics to implement and the epidemic will be over.
This lockdown is going to be over very soon, the public will not stand for it much longer. Khe pandemic is winding down.
We have been lied to about the severity, the mortality by the government and the panic driving media.
Just open up everything now while putting protections in for the vulnerable.
Who is the EDitor?
Certain “ED” deleted my comment. So I will repeat, just to demonstrate that you cannot ban people from the Internet:
Kate wrote: “Here’s mine: implement the “work camp” model”
But now you write: How did my proposal get transformed into a “work camp” ???
It was your proposal to institute work camps. What do you mean someone transformed it?
Get the pipelines built.
Twin the railroads.
Repatriate manufacturing.
Employ our young people on the farms.
Silence the foreign activists.
Look folks… just open it up. You’ve moved heaven and earth to this point and I’m sure the government types have ejaculated liters and liters of semen over this episode, but enough is enough. We all did our best to “flatten the curve” (WHO trademarked narrative talking point) and from here on in we’ll have to take our chances.
I’m more concerned with the “what now” questions that we will have to answer after that decision is made:
1) China is cancelled: boycott immediately
2) Roxham Road is cancelled: robust deportation process to ICE needs to be established and followed
3) TFW program needs to be shut down: this ignorant program never should have seen the light of day
4) We should all get an income tax holiday for 2 years.
Richard I love that “flatten the curve” nonsense. People still get the flu just at a different rate. China is cancelled, while Trudeau gives the Wuhan Inst. of Virology $828,000 of Canadians money. There is a cure for that but Canadians think they are too civilized to take the needed action.
“farmers for example, it would mean accepting the truth that their organizations are part of the problem and would continue to run interference for the other parasites”
More than any participant in the economy farmers recognize the principle of ‘calculated risk’ especially when using pesticides. The general population has arrived at a point where they seem unwilling to accept any risk whatsoever or at least try to understand the concept.
How do farm organizations ‘run interference for the other parasites’?
I agree with so many of the comments.
I am retired, I live rurally, and so my life has been less affected than very many. But I am so concerned about the damage to society, the long term damage for everyone under 50, not just economic, but in a greater societal way. I cannot believe the level of compliance with some of the more preposterous measures taken by governments – closing parks and outdoor spaces, for e.g. We are lucky in Alberta that many stores are still open, we haven’t gone down the rabbit hole of some jurisdictions. I think a lot more stores have to open, or these small businesses will struggle to survive, and many will not. They have to be allowed to open. Perhaps make masks and gloves more readily available? Have hand sanitizing stations at the entrance? Limit total numbers in the stores/restaurants? And to say I am disheartened by the number of people willing to snitch on neighbours and even family – an understatement! We turned into East Germany during the time of the Stasi so fast, it makes my head spin! I do agree that some of the more ignorant in society think that if we shut everything down for long enough, the virus will go away. I don’t know how to make a stupid person understand virology. So it is unfortunately up to our politicians and public health officials to make the right calls, and try to educate the populace.
On more practical points:
1. Widespread and accurate antibody testing needs to be readily available. I absolutely do not agree with issuing travel passes/permission slips based on the results of the testing!! More East Germany! This would be for individual comfort, and to get a more accurate picture of where we are at in terms of public immunity.
2. Vulnerable people, whether the very old or the very compromised, should continue to be kept as safe and secure and isolated as possible. The care home situation has been a disgrace – not just here, but everywhere. Are there no medical people supervising lay staff in these places, who understand hygiene etc? Accurate testing, both for the virus and antibodies, is critical.
3. Another critical place for accurate and fast testing would be to start up travel again, international travel in particular. If you test negative for the disease, or positive for antibodies, then I would question the need for quarantine. You could repeat the test in case you developed something in the first 1-2 weeks of time in the country, but if other measures are taken, I think people will be mostly safe. Realistically, some travelers are coming from places with less Covid-19, not more. It’s just a way to shut down the country.
4. I do not agree with work camps. Obviously some work sites do use those, esp. oil and gas and remote. Otherwise, no. It continues the illusion that we can absolutely control the virus, and if the government is handing money out, perhaps some people would take the government money rather than work under those conditions.
5. Speaking of gov’t money – I absolutely agree that we should be trying to get the unemployed to work, especially students trying to earn tuition. If that means subsidizing a student who takes some kind of farm work, I’d support that, rather than support importation of foreign workers. Although (number 3) if testing is fast and accurate, it should reduce the need for quarantine. But still – please stupid government, don’t pay people to not work for any longer than necessary. I also worry about a plummeting dollar, and spiraling inflation, when all is said and done.
6. Another thing that has bothered me is the number of trials using hydrochloroquine, but they mention nothing about a trial using what seems like the successful trifecta of drugs used by Dr. Zelenko. And then they conclude it doesn’t work. I am not much for conspiracy theories, but I think some people don’t want that drug to work – not enough money in it (yes, thinking of you Bill Gates)? Or maybe totally political – Donald Trump mentioned it early, so for sure it shouldn’t be used.
7. More current numbers with respect to case fatality rates need to be more publicized. As testing advances, those numbers keep going down. I have seen a somewhat apocalyptic trend among acquaintances – very strange, but they don’t want to hear good news, they seem to want to believe the worst. Very odd. Has anyone else noticed this? I’ve read so many really positive things, with respect to treatment, testing, survival rates etc – but the circle of people I’ll share that information with has grown ever smaller! Is it possible they don’t want the scary time to end?
8. When the scary time ends (sooner rather than later) I hope that renewed interest in gardening, baking, etc will continue. I hope that less talk of 57 genders and catastrophic climate change, and grievance studies and victimhood, I hope that will last. But I’m not holding my breath!
9. Again, not wanting to engage in conspiracy theories, but I have a brother in law with the federal government, and he sent an email (by mistake I think) including a discussion among co-workers about how to use this crisis to make action on climate change more palatable for people. So I think those types actually don’t want the crisis to end……segway right into the next crisis – no one will notice! Also, in the US, following the politics leading up to November, it would ideally suit the Democrats to still have the upheaval continuing by then. At least, that’s how it seems to me. So, maybe people like Joe Biden – they don’t want this to end either!!
What a time we live in.
Suec, there is none so ignorant as a Canadian socialist or any socialist. Your points are valid.
Best post of this entire thread! Thank you.
Agree.
We have flattened the curve in Western Canada already. Probably all across the country. No need to further flatten the economy and the hopes of many. Announce the all clear already.
Unfortunately there is no work to go back to for many.
So… can the government waive income tax and payroll taxes on small business (esp. independent restaurants) for something like 2 years to get the small business cohort hiring and growing again?
Good comments SUEC.
I to am amazed at the speed at which so many are willing to snitch, SCREAM bloody murder at their neighbour sitting in his yard, or roller blading in an empty parking lot.
Should we not be able to rid ourselves of this UTTERLY Criminally Incompetent Govt, we may see the proposed new law of “Spreading Misinformation on COVID-19” enhanced / Enforced with Re-Education Kampfs….and the requisite cattle car trains to haul the Unlawful there….likely North of 60 and away from prying eyes….hmm.? Not like that’s ever happened in history.
We are damned near there.
EVERYONE needs to understand. Justin Trudeau cares absolutely ZERO for you or your family. He cares about Power and wielding it (as does Herr Obergruppen Furher Butts). They are in my opinion defacto NAZI’s.
Their LOVE of the Basic Chinese Dictatorship was no idly expressed sentiment…
Their REMOVAL from office must be # 1 on anyones list.
Reduce pay for federal public servants by at least 20%. There is room there and it will bring that group in line with other Canadians. They seem to be being paid throughout this situation without really having to do much.
This endeavor is like trying to come up with solutions for climate change.
The underlying premise, the reason used for these actions, are demonstrably fraudulent- just like climate change.
The projections have been continually downgraded, now by over 90%
This is a new flu that kills pretty much the same cohort as regular flu, but in a different way.
Sweden which is going the herd immunity route without destroying their economy has lower death rates than Britain, Spain, Italy and France.
I can’t believe that people who recognize that AGW is a fraud are buying into this, because in doing so they are validating the totalitarian actions of those pushing this agenda.
This is like climate change on steroids. It gives those who wish to destroy and enslave the West a free hand to do so.
Do a widespread Zelenko protocol test on a few thousand people.
Hit the infected with it early.
Count how many die.
My bet will be as low or lower than seasonal flu.
Compared with the rest of Scandanavia, Sweden’s death rate is a shit show. Stop repeating crap you read elsewhere and look at the data.
I don’t disagree with you on that Kate – but Sweden will end up with Herd Immunity – and everyone else in lockdown won’t.
So what happens when they lift the lockdowns? Seems to me we end up with an increase in infections. Do we then go back to lockdowns?
Waiting for a vaccine wont cut it either.
I was on this pretty early that it was serious enough for me to sell 90% of my stocks in early Feb. I put my family on lockdown and loaded up on supplies at the same time – well ahead of the curve on that. I put my money where my mouth is.
We still are maintaining a strict self imposed regimen – and its very strict – because this flu – or any other flu – has great potential to kill my parents who live with us.
Thats one good thing that has come of this – I have a far better understanding of just how dangerous seasonal flu is to the elderly.
As for the “shitshow” numbers that Sweden has compared to its neighbors, do we really know why? Numbers are all over the map with rates of infection/Death throughout the world.
Swedens death rate might be attributable to other factors – like mass immigration.
But what we do know is that this is not playing out the way the experts modeled it.
Seems to me we have two issues at play:
1. We have a new and serious flu virus affecting the populace
2. We have left leaning governments (and oppositions) around the world that are capitalizing on this “opportunity” to implement every wet dream they ever had to impose totalitarian controls over society.
If #2 is successful, our futures are very dim indeed.
I suspect even if the death rate comes in high – and at this point there is no guarantee of that – that if we let it run its course we will come through it with our rights, liberties and economies intact.
Not even 1% of the chickens have come home to roost, why on Earth would you want this to stop?
“We Need A Famine,” Right?
De-fund the CBC.
Sweden.
European rates of death per 1M
Belgium – 419
Netherlands – 193
Switzerland – 148
UK – 202
Denmark – 55
Norway -28
Sweden – 132
Spain – 409
Italy – 367
France – 275
Germany – 47
Austria – 46
Portugal – 62
Finland – 14
The numbers are all over the place, lock down or no lock down. Early lock down or late lock down. I don’t understand the vitriol thrown at Sweden for at least trying to put responsibility on the people.
Unfortunately the politicos and bureaucrats are in a lock down mentality. I believe they do not know what to do next. They are paralized with fear, as reopening will reveal the extent of their economic devastation. At least Trump has set up a task force to look at reopening. In Canada I have seen no signs of hope. Governments have doubled down. In Ottawa, the powers thst be have graciously indicated that we can speak to neighbors over the back fence if we keep our distance. They were previously wanting to clamp down on neighbors interacting. It’s truly Orwellian.
So are their psychophant supporters over at the CBC and elsewhere. It’s amazing how quickly the nascent fascism present in leftists comes bubbling forth in a time of crisis.