The Roughneck has kindly provided the article free of charge to our readers.
Download the pdf here: Roughneck Article April 2019.
“…founded in 1952 as the voice of the Canadian oil community. The magazine reports on the people and events of that community – both past and present – that have made the oilpatch in Canada what it is today.” Here’s a link should you wish to subscribe.
h/t GK
Does anyone believe that the globalists will allow Alberta to upset the apple cart? It would take a lot more courage and suffering to pull of a separation than current generations have the stomach for.
We have gotten too soft with our advanced technological life-style, gross naivete, and horrid education at the hand of leftist government automatons of the teachers unions and far left post secondary hang outs for old hippies and malcontent Marxist professors.
Sorry about the accidental double post. I did an edit and something went wrong.
Does anyone believe that the globalists will allow Alberta to upset the apple cart? It would take a lot more courage and suffering to pull of a separation than current generations have the stomach for.
We have gotten too soft in our advanced technological life-style. There is gross naivete, and horrid mis-education at the hands of the leftist government automatons of the teachers unions and far left post secondary malcontent, Marxist professors.
The thing about the globalist supporters, is that they believe they will hole preferred positions in the New Order. What they don’t understand … and they should by now .. is that they are the useful idiots of the global elites.
“…….they are the useful idiots of the global elites”
The problem is explaining to self righteous idiots that they are indeed idiots and expecting different results.
History dictates that this will end badly at some future point. The silver lining is that regardless of outcome the Left will ultimately always lose, even when they believe they’ve won.
“…….they are the useful idiots of the global elites”
Jews right? Zero Hedge says it’s all rich connected Jews and Israelis at the root of damn near every political and social problem.
( Roughneck sounds like a modern Gay men’s mag)
The U.N. and EU are primarily behind the global governance and climate change agenda. I haven’t noticed the UN being favourable to Israel.
The “Gay men’s mag” is all you, Glick.
Well right now Albertans in several polls have indicated that 50% are ready to get out of Canada and support Independence. Independence and Separatism are 2 different beasts.
Right now Jason Kenney explained in the Senate in Ottawa that if substantial changes are not made with Canadians attitude to Albertans and how we are ripped off that he will use the Clarity Act to begin the process of removing Alberta from Canada.
Now if a Quebec Premier had stated this publicly and clearly the way Kenney did, the MSM would be in melt down news cycle 24/7.
The Premier of Ottawa Trudeau would be burning jet fuel and bending over backwards to accommodate. We shall see I guess.
Personally I say forget the stupid Clarity act and go straight to UDI. THis ends all Ottawa Treaty’s with Alberta and immediately puts Alberta in the drivers seat. UDI
Thank you for posting this very thoughtful, well written article. I have taken the liberty of copying it and forwarding it to 4 friends. My take away is that strategic planning is already in place for Alberta to leave. Depending on how the October federal election goes, the process could be accelerated. I agree with all points in the article (I especially love how most of BC would go to Alberta for financial recompense). I also believe that when Alberta leaves, Saskatchewan would not be far behind, then Manitoba would join within 5 years and possibly even northern Ontario (I am thinking Thunder Bay, Sault Ste Marie and north to the Hudson’s Bay).
I do say all of this with a sad heart, as I used to be a proud Canadian. However, I have become more disgusted/disappointed in the last 20 years with the way eastern Canada treats western Canada (we are nothing by hewers of wood and carriers of water/oil for them).
Long live the Republic of Riel (that is the name which I have given to an independent Western Canada),
With all do respect you can keep Riel. Albertans will probably keep Alberta. And as far as the west goes, Alberta will have to go alone as always. If others follow fine, but Albertans can not speak for anyone else.
Agreed Watcher! Alberta can and must go it alone.
There is way too much ‘government’ in Saskatchewan and Manitoba and rolling them into a new entity would be damn difficult to say the least.
No! Should they decide to follow at some time, they can petition to join, but on Alberta’s terms.
UDI now! Or are we going to wait for the Pussy in Ottawa to declare guns illegal next month as planned??
If Canada breaks up nothing has been lost. I am Ontarian. If Alberta wants to separate I wish them well and wouldn’t fight to prevent it. I suspect in Alberta leaves the whole country will break up, and if it does the former provinces will be able to negotiate whatever arrangements they want with other provinces for trade/cooperation like we always did in the past. The only thing that will change is that we get rid of a level of government. Canada has never been more that the way we govern ourselves. We would just be changing the way we govern ourselves.
I agree that if one province leaves this confederation quickly disintegrates.
In several other provinces there is a not insignificant cohort that wants this – NL, Que, SK and BC having the largest ones.
I think most will ultimately wind-up as states within the USA.
For instance the maritimes – NB, PEI and NS could become one or be absorbed by Maine – they won’t have much choice. NL has enough economic and strategic leverage to remain as one state of perhaps a territory like Puerto Rico – in 1949 the US was prepared to make it a state but the polarized politics of today likely make that impossible.
Quebec would become independent and IMO likely will experience great political and financial upheaval at first before settling into becoming very prosperous and vibrant and free-market-loving or Venezuela. I don’t expect the USA would allow the latter to happen.
Ontario will have no choice but to sue for union with the US. My ancestors on my mother’s side and a large portion of it’s citizens today will view this as anathema but as they are economically so intertwined with the US and having lost their hinterland’s to the east and west of their border to suck economic benefit from they have no choice.
The west will – As i stated elsewhere – likely join as states – how many and when will be determined – I see arguments for several scenarios…
We welcome the prairie provinces. Think of the money you will save not printing everything in two languages. (I am not joking.) The biggest issue will be figuring out how to add six more stars to the upper left part of the U.S. flag. Not discussed in the article is how the U.S.-Canadian military alliance will be affected. Right now, the vice commander of NORAD is always a Canadian. Perhaps Alberta could get at least a colonel.
See the Obamanation was right,”All 57 States” His timing was off.
The inbreeding between our Liberals and the US Democrats is historic, there fore the destruction of Canada has been been the Liberals Goal all along.
Who says they cannot do anything right?
// strategic planning is already in place //
Heh.
10. How would Alberta independence affect B.C.?
Well, the land for debt relief deal would absorb most of B.C. into Albera ….
Build that country & Canada will pay for it.
A rebel with no name & no hope.
Everything he said, lots of people know.
The elephant in the room, the question that was not asked; “What is the plan for dealing with 12 million economic “refugees” (fifth columnists) flooding in from suddenly insolvent socialist hell holes like Toronto?”
The border has to close. IMMEDIATELY. You can’t be letting Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, stack the deck with communists before you even get a good start. There has to be a significant military, IMMEDIATELY, to stop what will be millions of people just strolling in to latch on and start sucking blood. The parasite class will redeploy INCREDIBLY QUICKLY. You will very quickly start to see things like Chinese money laundering buying things up in Calgary instead of Vancouver and Toronto…
Chinese money? It’s welcome. Then we nationalize all Chinese assets. Or tax it heavily. 🙂
I have learned in my life that the less I have to do with government, the happier and freer I am.
I believe that this would apply to Canada and China. The less we have to do with China the better off we will be.
They will never stop trying to screw us and take over everything. That is their nature … similar to what the muslims want to do by blowing shit up including themselves, but the Chinese have brains so they are more formidable.
Wait, what about the Israeli’s? Zero hedge commentators say the Jews are THE worst threat facing society.
Most US politicians already have dual Israeli/US citizenship. How many Canadians do?
It is documented fact that Israel has sold US military secrets to both Russia and China.
We don’t even want to get into Holywood and how the Jews manipulate public opinion.
Go crawl back under your rock.
Ed Minchau
Keep hiding under your rock.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/14/whatsapp-confirms-its-been-targeted-by-spyware.html
https://www.ft.com/content/4da1117e-756c-11e9-be7d-6d846537acab
WhatsApp voice calls used to inject Israeli spyware on phones
“A vulnerability in the messaging app WhatsApp has allowed attackers to inject commercial Israeli spyware on to phones, the company and a spyware technology dealer said.
WhatsApp, which is used by 1.5bn people worldwide, discovered in early May that attackers were able to install surveillance software on to both iPhones and Android phones by ringing up targets using the app’s phone call function.
The malicious code, developed by the secretive Israeli company NSO Group, could be transmitted even if users did not answer their phones, and the calls often disappeared from call logs, said the spyware dealer, who was recently “
Dual citizenship? Any examples?
“…It would take a lot more courage and suffering to pull of a separation than current generations have the stomach for. ”
You nailed it, Duke. Notley and turdo la doo ran the province into the ground over a four-year period and Albertans couldn’t even get off their arses to block a highway or plug up the Legislature in protest.
JM are you an Albertan? Albertans might surprise you. In the Dirty 30’s the rest of Canada submitted to the will of Ottawa to get food stamps. Alberta told Ottawa to FO. And suffered the consequences. Albertans may just surprise you folks in the ROC. Been coming for a long time.
“…Albertans might surprise you…..”
And I might get to be pope someday.
OK Jamie so you are not Albertan.
“OK Jamie so you are not Albertan.”
True enough…and I’m not a dreamer either.
I don’t believe that. I suspect that if Alberta decided to separate tomorrow it could, and nothing much would change. You also have the option of staying in Canada and doing whatever you like and ignore the federal government, Quebec always does. No one has the stomach for, or the desire to fight. What are the feds going to do? Send in a non existent army to try and stop it? If they did how would that work? The only thing that I can even imagine happening if Alberta decided to separate is that the federal government could try and declare Alberta a territory and send in a governor to run the place. It’s either that or negotiate with the provincial government like it always has, and if the provincial governments negotiating position is that they are no longer bound by federal law, there is nothing the feds are going to do about it.
I see no one wants to address the question.
What WOULD Alberta do with 12 million new citizens, all expecting welfare checks, and housing, and food, on the first day of “independence”?
How odd no one wants to answer that question…
Because do you think they are just going to stay home in the dark and starve? You think all those Quebec socialists are going to accept losing their cash cow? Their cheap daycare? You don’t think many will simply come looking?
You don’t think “grassroots” movement to get official bilingualism going in Alberta won’t suddenly start? You don’t think they have contingency plans too?
Probably Turdy’s plan all along.. A start on Quebec separation, and all that means to a shrunken Canada.
Did the 12m number just pop into your head Kevin? I do not think that realistic. Some may but 12M not buying that. If we went UDI I do not think French would be an official language in Alberta anymore. That is what I meant by ending all treaty’s.
I think this could be handled by some retroactive means. If you weren’t a citizen before the intent to separate was announced then you would have to apply for citizenship.
Something along those lines.
What aboot when I retire? Can I bring my wealth and apply as an immigrant?
Because if its “Our Shit Doesn’t Stink Land” then I’ll bring my wealth elsewhere.
Just did a cursory glance of the article but got caught by the “figure” that the federal debt was 161 billion. Where in the name of all that is good and holy did they come up with that amount!
The CTF has it at 687 Billion. In the next hour, it will grow by another 2 million.
Of course, this is denominated in northern pesos so when we pull the cord…
I posted this before. It is Kenney addressing the Senate shortly after he was elected Prime Minister of Alberta. It rec’d virtually no notice in the MSM. But Canadians better wake up. Over 50% of Albertans have shown in polls they would vote to get out of Canada. And nobody has been ginning Albertans up. Kenney has not even began to follow through on his promises to Albertans. He has been in office a few weeks. Personally I would forget the Clarity Act and Negotiation, I would go straight to UDI and that will end all treaty’s signed by Ottawa on Alberta’s behalf. Here again Kenney in plain English tells the Senate that he will invoke the Clarity Act and take Alberta out of Canada if necessary and substantial changes do not occur.http://www.cpac.ca/en/programs/in-committee-from-the-senate-of-canada/episodes/65982332
You are speaking like you believe Kenney actually WANTS Alberta to separate. You do realize, Alberta did elect an Ottawa insider as its premier, right?
The press not jumping down Kenney’s throat… hmmm… give me the list of other people whose throat is not jumped down, and I will show you the list that Kenney is on.
I think Canada is in for a big surprise. Including quite a few here. You can walk into any café or gas station in Alberta right now and here Independence talk openly. Albertans are pissed. If Kenney can not fil the bill someone elase will
Kenney saw how Quebec played the separation game to get what they wanted. I’m sure he’s filed those lessons away.
I’m not saying Kenney will copy them, but he’ll learn from them.
People forget that Kenney used to be Jean Chretian’s executive assistant. He hasn’t proven to me that he is what he presents himself as. Why should we believe that he isn’t still a Cretinite Liberal?
The same reason why I don’t believe Thomas Sowell is a marxist anymore. Or that Dennis Miller is a liberal. People are capable of change.
What’s UDI?
Unilateral Declaration of Independence. The same thing the 13 Colonies did with Britain. A clean slate.
I liked it so much I subscribed to the roughneck. 🙂
I especially like the part about allowing Canada to cede northern bc to Alberta in lieu of them repaying all the money Canada owes Alberta.
Now excuse me while I go start campaigning to get Trudeau re-elected.
I believe you have missed the mark. For Quebec, it always was a “game” or a lie. The criminal term for what they did is called extortion. “Give us this amount of money or some harm will come to you.” Serious watchers of what Quebec did never took Quebec’s claim of separation seriously – it was always an extortion racket.
The same game will not work for Alberta. For it to work, one must presume that Canadian provinces are equal in Confederation – they are not. The regions are not even equal. When Quebec does it, Ottawa asks “How high should we jump?”. If Alberta were to try the same tactics, Ottawa and Ontario, will respond with no end of insults. Racist, ungrateful, etc.
Mr. Preston Manning is still respected very much in the Western provinces and he was right on one premise: the West wants in. However, he made one mistake over and over again. He presumed that the rest of Canada would understand from the slogan “the West wants in” that understandably the West was not in or at least it was not in Confederation on an equal basis. That fact is understood in the West; it is not understood outside of the West. Mr Manning’s efforts were admirable and should Alberta actually secede from Canada, no one will be able to say that Alberta did not try – the Reform Party’s message was “the West wants in”. The insults of racism and other similar epithets really never ended.
Alberta’s choice is clear as it was before the days of Reform: 1) change Canada or 2) secede or 3) quiet down and take the inequality like you always have. After the days of the Reform Party and Mr. Manning’s efforts one may strike 1) off the list. There are only 2 choice left.
Countries are formed by people with common beliefs, heritage, and geography. There is a stark divide between central and coastal North America. It would be quite “logical” for new nation to emerge from the creeping socio-Political divide between coastal liberalism and interior conservatism. I actually envision that new nation extending from Texas to Alberta, from the Hudson Bay to the Gulf of Mexico. It would take a radical political effort in two separate nations, followed by unification. It actually sounds quite logical, and frankly … healthy … for the people.
Yes. Exactly. How do we get a corridor to Alaska? The Yukon is in the way.
I laughed out loud when I read point 8 – that the interviewee expected to get the province of BC in lieu of the notional equalization debt.
The interviewee’s arguments were a bit shaky up to that point – then they became ridiculous.
Let me be clear on where I stand on the issue: the dissolution of the Canadian confederation is a very real possibility for manifold reasons not the least of which and very likely primarily due to the mistreatment of Alberta (and to a lesser extent SK) on the oil and gas issues and their related elements – equalization etc.. But I think the far more likely ultimate outcome is Alberta and perhaps SK and maybe BC becoming states in the Union to the south.
I think this risk abates significantly if the CPC wins at least a minority and then fulfills the responsibility of getting pipelines built through BC. In what now seems to be a very unlikely event – the LPC wins a majority, this confederation could unravel very quickly indeed.
But without true reform of equalization and the senate (and other ancillary issues such as the method of creating and extinguishing provincial status) the confederation is ultimately doomed IMO.
You are right Gord. I disagree on this point, no matter who wins, Scheer is beholden already and openly stated so to Quebec. What I think will happen, is if Trudeau is elected again or the Liberals this will erupt very fast.
If Scheer wins he is still hamstrung by the Constipated Constitution which can not be changed. It was set up initially for 4 former colonies. Upper Canada, Lower Canada, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick. PEI came on later. It can not and will not be changed.
Alberta and no other Provinces will be granted Liberty or Freedom and will be taxed into submission to support this arrangement.
Quebec has an absolute veto on all changes. It will never relinquish its control of the purse or grant Liberty to Alberta. So in essence there is no political way forward in Canada for anyone who does not submit to Quebec and their puppet Ottawa.
The only way out is a UDI by the People of Alberta. Support for Independence in Alberta is actually higher than it was in Quebec when they had their vote, because this support in Alberta has welled up from the grassroots without political agitation by any party.
Politicians in Alberta have been tamping this down since Parson Manning and “The West Wants In” If things do not happen quickly Albertans will pull the trigger.
So what can Ottawa do now? Nothing they have agitated and supported the anti Alberta, anti Oil, pro carbon tax environmental scam for so long and raised Indians to such an elevation that Ottawa can no longer defuse or change the outcome. Look at it as if Ottawa had told Quebec that you can not export hydro electricity. This is what Canada has said over and over to Albertans. It is very plain now. Send in the Rodeo Clowns. Stampede.
Scheer would lose his position as leader and/or the CPC would split if he/they did not act on the pipelines.
I think he – and the party – would act. Much of his base in Quebec agrees with it BTW.
Ya, but you also told us Trump would never be the GOP nominee or get elected.Why should be believe you now?
How many people thought that in the early days?
Even trump didn’t think so on election night.
I’ve been wrong on a lot of things in my life. I don’t feel any shame in being incorrect on that prediction.
Constitutional Change can happen with 7 provinces and 50% of the Population.
Quebec does not have a veto (that was what all the fighting over Meech Lake was all about)
Currently there are four provinces with solidly conservative leadership (ON, MB, SK and AB) with more than 50% of the POP. NL and BC will go along with EEE senate reform.
And we may have a leader and party in Ontario who will back it too if the fate of Confederation hangs in the balance. Especially so if included in the changes there is a mechanism for the extinguishing of province status and subdivision into additional provinces based on some kind of population formula – provincial borders should not be cast in stone for millennia to come.
Alberta’s border I think you will find is cast in stone. Big change is afoot for Canada.
This really got started when PET decided to centralize all control in many areas of Provincial Jurisdiction and weak Prime Ministers in the Provinces went along.
PET really pushed the Federal Spending Power and used that as a carrot and a stick to run Canada in all aspects.
Too big of and to diverse of a country to be ran that way. Hopefully Alberta does not enter into any kind of negotiations with Ottawa or use the Constitutional change route to try and save the Gulag.
The Gulag just needs to end. UDI starts us with a clean slate.
Alberta needs to look out for Albertans 1st and to hell with the ROC. Albertans with a population of less than 4m poured 1 Trillion tax dollars down the Rathole in Ottawa and got told to FO once to many times. UDI.
We are seeing the same all around the western nations, France Yellow Vests, Brexit,, Trump, the people have had enough of the Elite and their Globalist shit. UDI Alberta
I agree, Gord.
The only way Alberta will get her freedom is if Alberta gains access to nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles that can be pointed at Ottawa, Montreal and Quebec City.
She has no realistic means of doing so short of an American recognition of independence and/or offer of statehood coupled with an offer of military assistance.
Nobody is going to war over Alberta trying to separate. Most people don’t care one way or another. The only thing I see happening if Alberta separates is a whole lot of people in the rest of the country will get the same idea and the federation will end, and then we can all do what we want with one less level of government sucking taxes out of us. There will also be a whole bunch of disappointed bond holders who will never be repaid because the entity that borrowed the money and whose name is on the bonds doesn’t exist anymore.
A pipeline to BC is a pipeline to China, giving the ruling class even more of an excuse to kowtow to them.
Keystone XL will provide access to the greatest concentration of heavy oil refineries in the world, and will probably produce the best price, as the price for the crude is constrained by value of products made from it, and ordinary refineries can produce a ore limited range of products than a refinery built for heavy oil.
At a minimum, 2 pipes will provide more prospective buyers than 1 will.
Oil is a fungible commodity. Tidewater pacific oil (and gas) goes for far higher that gulf/Atlantic tidewater oil does. The Atlantic is I decline. Our future customers are not just China but India and others.
No, it’s not. There are many grades; oil is not oil. The price differentials in Brent, Urals, WTI, etc., can not be accounted for by shipping cost differentials alone. Want to cite some statistics to support your claim?
Your future market may never pan out; oil consumption is overwhelmingly done by the west.
Alberta oil is purchased at a discount, the buyer which is mostly the US considerate it captive and offer the discount price take it or leave it. The discount is well known in Alberta. It is 10-15 dollars a barrel. If Alberta’s oil gets to Tidewater then they get world price vs NA price. The 10-15 dollars a barrel is WTI price less the discount WCS oil. Then their is heavy crude. It is a significant amount of dollars to Albertans.
https://www.oilsandsmagazine.com/market-insights/crude-oil-pricing-differentials-why-alberta-crude-sells-at-deep-discount-to-wti
Yes, that was a howler. Why would Canada give Alberta a red cent? It’s not like Alberta would have any leverage at the time of separation.
It’s too bad though, dividing BC in two might make great sense for British Columbians (as well as Albertans – ha ha). The Island and the Lower Mainland would probably be quite happy on their own. They have a port, business ties to the US West Coast and Asia, and nice climate. They could buy their energy from the rest of BC/Alberta/the US, and since it was other people producing the energy they could perform a little mental gymnastics to avoid feeling any guilt about the associated CO2 emissions.
The rest of BC would have natural resources, access to the Northern part of the coast, and a strategic position connecting Alberta, the coast, and the US at both ends. And both parts would be able to go their own way politically.
And I’d like a pony.
I know people in Alberta. fine people.
Im on CPP etc, if Alberta cuts becomes an independent nation, I will request a visa to live there and spend my time, money and attention there. and who knows, if it pans out mebbe start a small business involving the bldg trades or sumptin.
or do the ‘roughneck’ thing for a year and live off the proceeds and the CPP until its time to read my will.
let THIS be the final TURDoo 2.0 legacy.
as posted yesterday, given enough time A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G can happen. do NOT dismiss possibilities, suggestions, scenarios etc merely because ‘yawell yawell yawell, thaaaaat’s ‘nebbergonna’aaaaaappen’.
“Canada is a long thin string of population held together by bribes.”
The ECONOMIST – 1985/86.
I haven’t had time to read the whole article yet, saving it for later when I’ve more time. But I think it is time for a conference to study the feasibility of western, certainly Alberta, independence. We’re not getting anything for this “Canada” thing, just soaked and blockaded by a level of government that returns absolutely zero added value. It’s time to get industry, financial, economic, agricultural and legal specialists together for a weekend to present briefs on the pros and cons as well as the potential mechanisms for a split as well as the plusses and minuses of various new political configurations e.g. national independence vs statehood in the U.S. vs a Puerto Rico-style arrangement, vs a virtual cantonization of the existing federation. It’s not an emotional thing, it’s simply a recognition of the reality, especially with eastern elites controlling the existing national agenda for their own advantage and dead set on pursuing a fairytale “green” agenda very selectively skewed toward shafting the west while turning a blind eye to far more egregious environmental degradation in the vote-rich east.
Just tell Ottawa you are not bound by their laws anymore, kick out all federal government agencies like the RCMP and the tax department and stop ending money to Ottawa. That’s all it takes and they will/can’t do anything about it.
A couple of responses to a few of the comments above:
Independence/separation if it happens isn’t going to happen overnight.
There likely will be various escalations/steps taken towards more autonomy first. The “firewall” is a good blueprint.
Collection of taxes by the province – not the feds as Quebec currently does. This give the AB government leverage BTW as it can withhold transfers to the fed for equalization and other entitlements.
Creation of an Alberta Police force.
Both of the above would provide effective means to keep out mass in migration into Alberta should separation appear imminent. Simply expelling those who were not residents on a certain date would be all that would be required.
These and other issues are all minor compared to the hurdle of getting enough of the populous fired-up enough to actually commit to leaving. That a very large percentage of citizens living in the capital would likely oppose it is not an insignificant problem.
The last point will not be caused by internalities but rather what the ROC does in response to Alberta’s moves towards greater autonomy. If those east and west of the province become even more determined to crush Alberta’s economy with the goal of making it subservient to the coastal and Laurentian elites, then Alberta’s exit becomes a certainty. If the opposite happens, simply put Alberta stays put.
Forgot to mention the creation of an APP – separation from the CPP.
Re “Collection of tax by the provinces- not the feds as Quebec does”
Not sure if you are saying Quebec collects federal and provincial income tax. Currently Quebec only collects provincial income tax.
// Collection of taxes by the province – not the feds as Quebec currently does. This give the AB government leverage BTW as it can withhold transfers to the fed for equalization and other entitlements. //
That’s wrong. In Quebec federal taxes are collected by the Federal government. So would they be if Alberta collected its own taxes.
And equalization payments are make from federally-collected taxes.
Harper realized that Alberta couldn’t erect what he wanted. He instead went to Ottawa & attempted to erect one from the other side.
https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/firewall-letter-was-a-blueprint-for-harper-policy-and-an-explanation-of-why-it-will-be-tough-for-the-liberals-to-undo-it
What to add…?
The interviewee is right that Albertans should reclaim their right to issue money if they are serious about independence, and no longer suffer the banks to usurp that right.
Show me who governs a country’s credit and I’ll show you who governs the land.
Which is why I tried to persuade Klein and Danielle Smith to take a percentage of oil royalties in physical gold and create an International Banking area in Edmonton. The physical gold would create the ballast. Become a Switzerland. The Canadian Dollar is essentially a Petro Dollar anyway. Can you imagine the value of the Canadian Dollar without Alberta pouring in that Trillion Dollars since 1961. It would be like the Mexican peso. Rough asswipe. Like I said the changes for Canadians will be shocking. I do not think it can be stopped. Trudeau can not back down now, he is a small and very petty man with a huge ego. And Scheer will dance to his masters tune. If Albertans decide to go, Sask. will quickly follow. The die is cast. UDI
You know that money predates government don’t you? Money exists whether there are governments or not. Government run or government controlled central banks haven’t exactly got a great record of providing useful currency that retains its value, and not not bankrupting their nations.
One of the first things Kenney should do is start moving the extreme left voters out of Alberta. Shrink government and massive cuts to welfare and arts programs where possible. Try and get as many federal programs that attract grifters shut down as well. Make foreign funding of political entities impossible.
Basically make Alberta attractive to makers and unattractive to takers.
Kenny can do plenty within Confederation. Let’s get real, in terms of public support, AB separation is a pipe dream.
If the fused libertarian-conservative movement fails (itself) again via a rabidly partisan mediocracy, then yes all bets are off.
But just maybe, we could fire the Liberals first before concluding Scheer and the CPC are “not conservative enough.”
No sh*t sherlock, if they were they would unelectable. So how about pulling in the same direction this time eh?
Even if Dustbin et al were to win, the West can kick ass plenty quick. Kenny can torpedo equalization with the stroke of a pen.
He could immediately begin to collect all provincial income taxes, start the AB pension plan (amongst other things).
Who knows, maybe my beloved lotusland (and can one hope including Vancouver Island) might kick our statists rascals out too.
The eastward largesse to pay for others’ social programs will come to a screeching half. Don’t like it? FU. Quebec does it.
No matter the gig is up, it’s not establishment vrs elites, it’s deep staters vrs deplorables, who longer care about the insults.
That failed in Ontario. That failed in the US elections, not just POTUS. That will fail here unless cannibal conservatives stop it.
See you in court and right up your kilt so to speak. So maybe let’s cool the separation giddiness for now?
Blah, blah, blah. It’s all just talk. Kenney is not the person you believe him to be and anyone who knows him from the early Harper years or later Manning years knows of which I speak. He’s a chameleon who will say whatever you want to hear. His principles are tied to the Laurentians, and you will not see a bit of change. Maybe they will “re-open” talks about equalization, but the formula will not be changed. Maybe the pipeline will go through, but there will be a huge price to pay by Albertans. Western Canada, for lack of a better term, is being managed and controlled 24/7.
Canada is too wide, diverse and culturally different to be run by one side of the country. We need a Canada East and a Canada West. Rome advanced the idea for a geographical area a fraction of our size.
Your comment makes perfect sense as to why Kenney resorted to BS tactics to win the leadership away from Brian Jean and the more separatist oriented members of the Wild Rose party.
For what its worth, Jack Ramsay, leader of the Western Canada Concept party, was also no western separatist which I figured out the first time I talked to him. He was a first class Bullshitter and liar.
And got what he deserved.
A big ciddy columnist years later confirmed to me that Ramsey was a plant from the federal govt., or who ever.
“We zero Canada’s debt to Alberta, they cede most of British Columbia to Alberta. We call it even.”
When I read that, my first thought was to leave Vancouver area and the Island out of it, the rest stays with Alberta. Then I read Point 10. It’s like someone’s reading my mind!
The article indicates to me that there is more to this than just kicking the tires. The numbers are being run, they’re watching the polls, listening to public opinion, and strategy is forming. To anyone who thinks that independence won’t be ‘permitted’ by the central elites, consider all the sh!t that Trudeau and the Liberals are into right now. All this would be completely under the radar and out of the news if the so-called ‘elites’ were truly in control.
Half the people in Calgary vote NDP, 2/3 of the people in Edmonton vote NDP and work for the government and 90% of Fort MacMurray residents are from Newfoundland. Just who will lead the charge here? Don’t tell me the people of Canmore because they’re just bat-shit crazy.
Who elected Kenney with 55% of the popular vote? The GD cowboys, farmers, oil patch and rednecks. Nobody in Alberta gives a Rats Ass what voters in Edmonton want. And that was with the RCMP and all the media and all the unions working for the NDP.
So when Alberta separates and becomes its own country is a civil war going to break out between Calgary and Edmonton? Might want to sort that issue out before you declare independence.
No the Rednecks will run off the screwballs real quick. 80% of the government could be gone, there are thousands of Federal employees in Alberta that would get sent back east for the welfare bums to feed.
The federal employees in Alberta are Albertans, and all the provincial government employees in Alberta are Albertans. They aren’t going anywhere.
60% of Labour voters voted for Brexit. It’s not necessarily a left/right thing.
I looked up Alberta Separation in my Oxford Dictionary of Canadian English.
It said: see pipe dream.
No it showed you sucking a fat gagger
“No it showed you sucking a fat gagger”
C’mon now “watcher”, you voyeurs always have the same fantasies.
You know the problem with rural Alberta?
It’s just like rural and small town Ontario… way too many of you watchers, and not enough doers.
Another day, another dream of a “Free and Glorious Albertistan*”
You Albertistanis do make me laugh.
You’re as traitorous as the Kweebeckers but not even half as dangerous.
I do hope Premier Kenney can you lead you to the promised land.
More likely you’ll just vote in another bunch of leftists in 4 years and go back to hewing wood and drilling oil and muttering into your beers.
*Albertistan not to include: half of Calgary, all of Edmonton, anyone in Fort Mac from the East Coast, etc…
Yah I guess it is treasonous to want to quit sending welfare to the east. What the hell were we thinking. I mean after all it was just 1 Trillion dollars from less than 4 million Albertans. You are exactly why Alberta will leave.
Nah, you won’t. You’ll bitch and moan and moan and bitch but you aren’t going anywhere. It’s a masturbatory fantasy at best, fucking traitorous at worst.
Hopefully Kenney can get you some of your money back though. That’s definitely due.
And you sir are a traitor to Freedom and Liberty you are well suited as an INMATE in the Canadian Gulag. Make sure and tug your forelock and bow to the Ponce from Quebec. And what do you call the extortion of 1 T in taxes from less than 4m Albertans since 1961. I call that criminal and you obviously are a disgruntled beneficiary of this theft from the Families of Alberta. Does your hand shake when you get your payment from the sweat of others labors. I think not. And call yourself a Conservative! You sir sound more like a communist Liberal or a Progressive Socialist. Away with you.
You Albertistanis are good for a chuckle.
Cascadia …………..” check pulse..check pulse “.
Interesting article.
What was the answer to question 19?
Pound Sand?
Quite some thought has been given to this problem.
Two things,
1 Has anyone seen a rational argument for continuing Canada as it is or was?
2 Albertans are not Quebecers, if the citizens, decide enough already, it will be done.Making threats is for politicians and other liars.
I loved the “Take BC for the debt” way too funny yet not as foolish as you might think.
I have not heard a single person give a rational argument why Alberta should stay in confederation. We gain nothing from it and lose so much.
They can’t but when Alberta does leave, and Quebec demands that the extortion comes out of the ROC’s hide they will be squealing like a snake bit cat. Especially when all the RCMP, Ag Canada, Fisheries and Oceans, Banff Park, Jasper and all our other Alberta Parks no longer need Quebecers or Easteners to tell us where to park and how long we can stay. Going to be thousands of unemployed Federal Employees sent packing. Imagine for a minute if the ROC told Quebec you can not export power to the USA or anywhere else? Alberta is not Quebec.
Point 1. I cannot continue as it is. Constitutional reform is required.
Once there has been reform it could last a very long time indeed.
Alberta should separate from Old Canada.
Albertans are pissed with Ottawa. Some would separate if a feasible alternative could be found.
I think the 50% figure quoted is soft as mush. 5% might consider separation once the consequences are explained.
Kenney is no separatist. He will work within the system to bring about change. He might even have some success?
The best thing for Alberta would be to work with a Conservative Federal government to eliminate the ridiculous transfer payments that go to Quebec. Then push for pipelines to the west coast. Then prohibit Saudi oil from entering Canada.
“I think the 50% figure quoted is soft as mush. 5% might consider separation once the consequences are explained.”
Exactly. The problem with rural Alberta is just like rural Ontario… way too many Watchers, and not enough doers.
Ha Ha Ha. Bow and scrape like the loyal inmate, a conditioned INMATE of the Gulag. Bow and tug your forelock like a good lad JM. When the Ponce crooks his finger your heart will flutter, who Meeeeee. But we will see. Perhaps I will have to eat my old straw hat, but I do know pissed off and fed up people when I see and hear them. And they are everywhere here in Alberta
Change your name to Doer. That was a good one JM!
“Change your name to Doer. That was a good one JM!”
Here’s a song for these guys, Steve.
https://youtu.be/UE6iAjEv9dQ
Yeah – you WOULD be the kind of jackass that likes Brad Paisley – you sneering limp-wristed Eastern cuck.
I think Albertans will give Kenney a chance to do what he has promised. If he is unable to deliver, all bets are off. So I expect you will see some slack for a little while. and we get access to Tidewater in a timely manner. If he gets his ass handed to him in Ottawa all bets are off. And Kenney says OK Alberta I am going to invoke the Clarity Act and begin to take Alberta out of Canada it will happen and very fast. Alberta does not need Canada like Quebec and Eastern Canada need Alberta’s cash. They may well have to find sustenance at another tit. Never been a more ungrateful bunch of welfare bums in history. Even the old Commies like Stalin and Fidel would blush at the filthy lucre the welfare socialists in eastern Canada have exacted from the backs of hard working Albertans.
It’s a mistake to simply trade one government for another. Why does Alberta need an Alberta police force? It would likely just be 100% ex mounties anyway.
I would go smaller; no more than 100 seriously good detectives. Police are just the citizens in your town; no deputizing, no special training, just taxpayers and common sense. They can call the serious guys in if there is an actual serious crime (maybe an annual workshop), but vandalism, petty theft, just handled locally. Go libertarian. No more judges for life; just citizens passing judgement locally. If you actually want a clean slate, maybe think about doing things differently.
Or you can just follow the exact same steps Canada, Britain, France, followed, in the exact same order.
I would think that if Alberta does start to make progress towards Independence, we would hopefully see Constituent Assemblies form by county or region to bring forward ideas and policy that all Citizens of the Nation of Alberta who were Bona Fide residents of at minimum 3 years better if 5 years could vote on.
I would start with a Constitution, that strongly limited Government. Myself I prefer something similar to what the Swiss have had for over 700 years or more. Were the Government are merely there to do the bidding of the citizens.
I have asked here many times can anyone give the name of the Swiss President without looking it up? No because they are just caretakers doing as they are told and administering what the Swiss have agreed that they want to live with and under.
My own opinion the Clarity Act is useless as it is not apart of the Old Canadian Constitution. It is just a Statute of the Government of the day subject to change and amendment.
This is why I would go UDI. Every Treaty and Contract with Ottawa would have a definite end date. New Treatys would of course be made. Albertans who had paid all their working lives into CPP would draw that until they died, New Alberta workers would be in the APP. Same with the UI scam, If Albertans wanted this at all who knows. It would all be decisions for Alberta citizens and no one else.
I do not see Alberta becoming a State of the USA. I can see them expanding on already existing arrangements between Alberta and their neighboring States over the border. Already a great number of arrangements are in place and working. For example a company in Alberta is working directly with the Government of Alaska for a rail line connection to Anchorage. If that happens perhaps a right of way could be negotiated at the same time for pipelines, power grids connections etc.
Perhaps Alberta could adopt the US dollar? Perhaps Albertans could make an enclave of Swiss style International Banking in Jasper? Once the Feds have been sent home.
With a clean slate and some hard work and imagination Alberta could become one of the richest new States in the world.
We could once things settled down make deals for military protection with the US as Canada would not be up to the job. Or Alberta could form its own National Guard with certain agreements with the US in case of invasion etc. Like Switzerland which has Citizen Soldiers.
The discussion on here today is typical for what you would expect from Canadians. No skin in the game in Alberta, lots of what the cat licks its ass with, and its paw out for benefits/welfare. Its like the piker who invites you out for lunch and when he is well stuffed and gives his belch, he sees you slipping away and sticking him with his bill. Sleep well INMATES of the Canadian Gulag for a little while longer.
Can you name a Swiss contribution to WWI? WWII? Korea? Isn’t Switzerland the rape capitol of Europe?
Maybe pick a success story next time.
I can’t name anyone, or anything from Switzerland. Except rape victims.
Switzerland has banking for criminals, and they have never picked a side in any conflict in world history. Pick a different success story.
I think you all are forgeting that Turdo signed the U.N. right to immigrate treaty(sic) …… we are about to be over run by muzzies just like sweden, england and most of europe
That article is a pipedream. I almost laughed that this anonymous thinker thinks BC will roll over and give most of their province to an Independent Alberta. And to think that an independent Alberta can extinguish Aboriginal title and rights to the land by enacting the policies of the 1800’s US government is laughable in this day and age. Alberta would be a world wide pariah right out of the gate. Look no further then South Africa for what happens when the world turns on you. That natural gas pipeline that this anonymous thinker thinks is a bargaining leverage tool would quickly turn into an Achilles heel. Ontario can get natgas exclusively from the US if required through existing infrastructure. It simply won’t happen. Don’t get me wrong, I support conservatism, but that article is porn for those who look for such things. I suspect that this push for separation within the elite circles of Albertan politics is just a selfish desire for more power and self enrichment at the cost of the many. When Alberta can elect conservatives in their own capitol, then get back to me.
“Yeah – you WOULD be the kind of jackass that likes Brad Paisley – you sneering limp-wristed Eastern cuck.”
And you must be one of them them touchy little cowboys.
https://youtu.be/WBRiMk9ZYxs
Hopes and expectations are quite different.
My expectation is that it will not happen.