Lawyer Daniel Brodsky confuses the Canadian public with someone who gives a rat’s ass about Peter Whitmore;
Daniel Brodsky told the Winnipeg Free Press that Canada would be a much safer country if dangerous predators such as Mr. Whitmore could get proper medical treatment instead of being warehoused behind bars before returning to society.
He said it’s clear Mr. Whitmore is suffering from mental illness based on the depravity of his crimes, his disturbing fantasies and a persistent obsession with young boys.
Mr. Brodsky also dismissed suggestions that, because pedophilia is deemed an “incurable mental disorder” by many professionals, there is no hope for someone like Mr. Whitmore.
“We don’t refuse to treat cancer patients because there is no cure,” Mr. Brodsky said yesterday, one day after his former client was given a life sentence under a plea bargain with Saskatchewan justice officials.
I believe we need a new criminal designation for offenders like Whitmore – to fill the gap that “dangerous offender” status has left open – a “no hope” provision.
I kind of like “Dead-Ender”.
Dead-enders would not receive treatment for psychological disorders, therapy or programs of any kind. No state funded efforts at rehabilitation, no visitors, no progress reports, no appearances before the parole board. No life extending medical care.
The primary obligation of the justice system to “dead enders” would be to cease wasting our money on them.
Then, dead-enders like Peter Whitmore might finally receive the prison sentence they deserve – three meals a day, rabbit-ear TV, and the promise of a dignified burial upon release.
Maybe throw in a rope.
whoa Kate! You’re tough! But in this case I agree whole heartedly.
ah Kate, a woman after my heart.
Ive been advocating this same mechanism for about 10 years now.
the distinct advantage is the part about not wasting money on ‘counselling’ or ‘treatment’ or country club accomodations.
That’s nice. Suggest that what we should do is compel people towards suicide. Glad to see you’re not totally pro-life.
hmmm… Cancer patients… dead enders… Maybe we can solve two problems at once. Can anyone say ‘human test subjects’?
Peter – Please provide the reference that indicates that I’m “totally pro-life”?
Bonus points if you can find my personal ties to Christian fundamentalism.
“We don’t refuse to treat cancer patients because there is no cure”
True, but incurable cancer patients don’t sodomize little boys they grab from the park.
Give them 55 years with guaranteed no parole and place them in general prison population.
Those who prey on children should receive no quarter. Even criminals know that much.
Let’s see here, the Taliban/Al Qaeda also kidnap, rape, torture and kill people. Even beheading a few for our edification on the Internet.
In fact they killed one Korean Christian missionary yesterday, and they promise to possibly kill 22 more.
The reponse thus far to the Taliban has been to shoot back as sponsored by NATO ISAF and UN resolutions.
But Mr. Whitmore’s motivation isn’t ‘political/religious’ but rather just demented, so he needs treatment.
Perhaps we should offer the Taliban/Al Qaeda “treatment” as well?
Thus we have this disparity in treatment for those who commit murder and mayhem in our midst.
So who is really sick the people who kill for political religious motivation or those who do it just for ‘fun’?
DISCUSS, COMPARE AND CONTRAST.
The link to cancer patients was an unfortunate one. But lets explore the differences
1) An “incurable” cancer patient, as opposed to a cureable one will be on treatments to control and extend the life of the patient, even though the the endpoint is “known”. To the extent that treatments allow a pedophile to function, whether in a prison environment or not the treatments can continue.
However, lets be clear, treatments in pedophiles are mitigating things not cures. For the moment there is no cure for this most horrendous of mental illnesses.
2) The incurable cancer patient is not causing harm, in general, to others by continuing to exist with their illness. The same cannot be said for the pedophile
3) If an “incurable” cancer patient refuses treatement the cancer patient dies faster than they would have. The pedophile re-offends and perpetuates the cycle of pedophillia to new victims, some of which turn to pedophillia as adults who wouldnt have if they didnt have this horrible experience (to the best knowledge we have today)
4) “incurable” cancer patients enter into a bargain by taking experiemental treatments. They may get cured, they may have their life extended but in general there are treatments used to see the effect on those that will die to improve the drug for those in earlier stages. My mother was part of the trials that led the release of Herceptin. Sadly she ultimately lost the battel but the effects of the Herceptin did prolong her life by probably 10 months and provided excellent data for the approval of the drug that if available 5 years earlier could have saved her life completely.
PEdophiles…..hmmm no cure yet, do they undergo experimental treatments on a regular basis or are they just so damaged that they lie cheat and manipulate their way through these sessions.
Conclusion, there is no comparison, it is actually somewhat offensive to draw the analogy.
It is incurable, any pedophillia convinction should lead to an immeadiate designation as a dangerous offender and pedophiles should all be locked up indefinitely to udnergo treatments until they can be deemed to be safe to be in society.
Until that time they should be “exiled” to a place where they can can live ou their lives away from children.
I await the lawuit that sues the justice system and the judge personbally who makes these decisions outside the scope of reasonable professional conduct.
What part of incurable do people not understand.
While I believe that pedophilia is among the long list of obsessive compulsive disorders with a biochemical or genetic basis – I don’t have much sympathy for an offender who clearly demonstrates he knows right from wrong (he hid his victims in an abandoned farm yard) and the consequences of his acts (in negotiating with police for their release to avoid dangerous offender status).
So, no sympathy for his disorder. If he had the mental capacity to elude police, he had the mental capacity to release them, or turn himself in before he grabbed the kids to ask for help.
If I remember correctly Whitmore refused ‘councelling’ while he was incarcerated. Yes, the comparison to cancer patients was despicable. How long do cancer patients have to wait in line-ups for treatment?
Today it is reported that a prisoner is suing the Ontario government because he did not get timely treatment and protection after being stabbed in prison. Is it time for the victims and the families of garbage like Whitmore to start suing CSC for not properly protecting their children from repeat dangerous offenders like Whitmore? If we extend this slimy lawyer’s argument for Whitmore it should be a possibility for the victims.
Just another attempt at social justification…making society responsible for the creep’s sins(who’s going to pay for the “tratment”?) instead of the creep.
Yes…sins.(quote me, not Kate)
Sorry the sentence ‘time for the victims and the families of garbage like Whitmore’ is a bit garbled–I meant that vicims and their families should be able to sue CSC and Whitmore because they failed to protect them from a known offender.
BTW…I take responsibility for my sins…
Jeeze Kate, an actual -life- sentence that means “for the rest of his life until he’s dead”?
How radical!
apparently mr slime lawyer couldnt convince his slime client to go for councilling let alone treatment.
I read in the Herald this morning that the 10 year old will be home schooled after relentless bullying at school over the incident.
“Dead-enders would not receive treatment for psychological disorders, therapy or programs of any kind. No state funded efforts at rehabilitation, no visitors, no progress reports, no appearances before the parole board. No life extending medical care.”
Tsk tsk, Kate. I’m afraid I can’t agree with you on this one. Whitmore is a VICTIM of a cold and uncaring society. He was FAILED by his family, the school system, and the legal system. We cannot ignore the root causes of the breakdown of this unfortunate man. Instead of pointing fingers and trying to assign blame, we should be asking ourselves why we as a society did not fulfill our obligations to him. Mr. Whitmore should sue for what is clearly a violation of his rights under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms
I appreciate the fact we live in a country where the’accused’is given all consideration before any conviction.
But as many other things in this leftopia we find ourselves in,common sense and concern for the common good are MIA.
A repeat offender such as this should only hold the right not to be tortured,beyond that,he simply has to be removed from society.I’m not particularly concerned how.
Personally,I can see only one sure way to solve this problem,since we already have adequate laws to put these wastes-of-skin away for good.
Grab the kids of all judges,prosecutors and parole board members in this country and hang a sign around their necks that says….
“This child approved for molestation.”
I’ve proposed this before. But, I’ll have another go.
In order for Canada to claim territorial rights to places like Han Island and the North Pole, we need to establish some sort of permanent buidling site there. What better thing to put on Han Island or the North Pole but a JAIL.
Think about it. Two birds with one stone. What a coup!!!
The sheer distance from anything else would serve as “walls” for our dangerous offender prison.
Another plus, we wouldn’t have to have “guards” on duty. The Polar Bears would do a great job for us, and at a cheaper price than the Civil Servants Union. We dould drop ship supplies every month or so.
A win-win-win situation.
It’ll never fly, I’m sure.
What a concept! Incarceration until the risk of re-offending is guaranteed to be ZERO !
How can the public be any safer than when the criminal isn’t part of the public any longer? Mr. Brodsky’s assertion is so patently illogical that whatever else he says might be dismissed.
If public safety is the chief concern and aim, dangerous offenders would never be allowed out alive again. Ever.
Mr. Brodsky does raise one point for wider discussion however, and that is the deeming of pedophilia to be an “incurable mental disorder”. Do we care to entertain what a slight shift in perception would mean to the tolerance and future endorsement of pedophilia? I mean, it wasn’t so long ago that homosexuality was considered in similar terms.
Hmm,maybe a ‘Dead-Ender’designation should mean just that…DEAD!I have zero sympathy for any pedophile,and especially repeat offenders,that refuse treatment(as useless as that is).This case in particular,should certainly mean a life-sentance means just that…life,no parole,no hearings to further torture the victims..lock door,pitch key.
Lawyer Daniel Brodsky confuses the Canadian public with someone who gives a rat’s ass about Peter Whitmore;
Man Kate, sure glad you didn’t use two T’s with that rat’s ass statement; 😉
,
Mike
Thats what Australia was.
The sad part of this is that the proscetor appears to be correct on the sameness of the dangerous offender and life sentence provisions.
In both cases the prisoner has a chance to apply for parole at 7 years
In both cases failure to acheive parole leads to life imprisonment
In both cases the criteria used to judge applicability for parole is the same.
That is more a damnation of the entire system. Can anyone point out what the difference of dangerous offender status is….because there definitely should have been one, and it should be severe, and it should have been applied to this damaged human being to keep him from damagin others.
Kate I agree that there likely are some bad chemicals, as Vonnegut used to say, in these peoples brains, along with likely some bad wiring. But I thik you naied it that these may be underlying reasons for behaviour but unless we are willing to say that we are deterministic machines with no free will then people MUST be repsonsible for their actions, even if compelled by genertics or other conditions to do these crimes.
Until they know they should be isolated and we as a society should be willing to pay for that isolation for our own benefit.
There are some illnesses we simply can’t cure — physical, mental or otherwise. So let’s stop pretending. The underlying assumption of rehabilitation is that the subject being rehabilitated can be released into society at large to function somewhat independently without posing an undue risk to others. Since, in the case of Whitmore, the assumption is false, there is no indication for rehabilitation.
Brodsky’s argument is analagous to blindly tossing a hand grenade into a room full of children. While one cannot predict precisely which children will be killed or maimed, it is virtually guaranteed that some of them will be. Thus it is illegal to toss hand grenades into rooms full of children. Likewise it should be illegal to turn the Peter Whitmores of the world loose into the community.
Having served the punishment part of his sentence (We should learn from the “destructive labour” provisions of the penal codes of the socialist paradises.) The Peter Whitmores should be incarcerated in high security, though not necessarily punitive, facilities and never, ever, ever let out.
Perhaps we could hear from those all hot to trot for gun control about pedophile control?
Hang down your head Tom Dooley…
I agree with David Brodsky, Canadians would be much safer if guys like Whitmore received proper medical treatment..
Lets start with castration and a lobotomy and see how it goes from there
In my college days, we were taught that psychiatrists and sociologists classify pedophilia and homosexuality as being the same…in that they are not choices, they are compulsions that go against the “normal” biological imperatives. And before you lefties jump on me for that, “normal” was defined as that which is biologically necessary to ensure procreation and, thus, propagation of the species.
The difference between pedophilia and homosexuality is an issue for sociologists. Society has decided to arbitrarily decide that the line between these behaviors being OK versus Not OK lies in what we (again arbitrarily) decide is acceptable when it comes to who can offer consent – i.e. even if a child consents, we deem them incapable of consenting.
But from a scientific, mental health point-of-view, there is a big of a PC quagmire. Since they are, scientifically the same, do we brand homosexuals as having something wrong with them because their behavior goes against normal biological concepts or do we classify pedophilia as being OK because, like homosexuals, they can’t help it?
That aside, since we, as a society find pedophiles reprehensible in the worst way (I believe that sex crimes against children should carry a punsishment of death by slow torture), we should do everything possible to seclude them from society until their deaths. The science is settled…Nothing else can be done to stop them or modify their behavior.
Good post, Kate!
“Mr. Whitmore should sue for what is clearly a violation of his rights under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms”
Don’t worry Mystery Meat. He will.
Our laws and corrections procedure is criminal.
He committed a crime, he’s going to jail. Too bad if there are people in prison would kill him. Shouldn’t be our problem. Mr. Whitmore is responsible for his actions, we need only be responsible for putting him in Jail.
What other prisoners do to further ruin their lives is not our problem.
First of all, Kate, way to go. Keep putting it in the face of the PC/liberal crowd.
A comment on the comments:
Bryceman there’s a big difference in what you are talking about re. pedophiles, heterosexuals and homosexuals. That is the issue of consent. Pedophiles rape. The target, even if seemingly willing, is not mature enough to make that choice.
But what about sexual preference? Where does it come from? Most pedophilia is not innate, but a product of abuse. Abusee becomes abuser.
What was sown amongst first nation people in residential schools, what was sown amongst some catholic communities, comes home to roost in the third and fourth generation of child molesters.
What a coincidence. Another pedo-homo.
How many times does this have to happen before people acknowledge the existence of a link between the two mental illnesses?
I think that where you find male homosexuals, you will find a pedo waiting to happen.
Screw the dignified burial – wrap them in their own sheets and then set them ablaze.
Whitmore isn’t suffering from a mental illness, the guy is depraved…children turn his crank. Phedophiles make conscious, pre-meditated efforts to rape children. Why do we think pedophiles are often priests, coaches, etc. They put themselves in positions where it is easier to take advantage of children’s trust and where they are in contact with children.
I agree with Larqs, “Lets start with castration and a lobotomy and see how it goes from there.”
If the general populace do not think of the victim first and foremost and do not think that the raping of a child is really any big deal, then you’ll have laws like ours, which basically cater to the well-being of the perpetrator and not the victim. Put those pedophiles in prison with the murderers and lifers and our problems will be solved.
“Daniel Brodsky told the Winnipeg Free Press that Canada would be a much safer country if dangerous predators such as Mr. Whitmore could get proper medical treatment instead of being warehoused behind bars before returning to society.”
I Agree with this statement of Brodsky’s….the nedical treatment is called “castration” and it should be mandatory if they are ever released.
Jack said: Bryceman there’s a big difference in what you are talking about re. pedophiles, heterosexuals and homosexuals. That is the issue of consent. Pedophiles rape. The target, even if seemingly willing, is not mature enough to make that choice.
Yes Jack. I said that in my post. We, as a society separate the two on moral grounds based on the concept of consent and who (based on age) is considered able to consent. So, yes, morally there is a big difference. But, medically/scientifically speaking, they are the same in that they are behaviors that are hard-wired and cannot be changed. We cannot reform these people anymore than we can convince homosexuals to start being attracted to members of the opposite sex.
Acknowledging that is the first step to seeing that we can’t convince a child-molester to change their ways as we could with a career-theif. Ergo, lock ’em up and throw away the key.
The APA’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 4th edition, Text Revision gives the following as its “Diagnostic criteria for 302.2 Pedophilia”:[24]
* Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger).
* The fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors cause clinically significant distress ‘or’ impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.
* The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A.
The APA diagnostic criteria do not require actual sexual activity with a child. The diagnosis can therefore be made based on the presence of fantasies or sexual urges alone, provided the subject meets the remaining criteria. “For individuals in late adolescence with Pedophilia, no precise age difference is specified, and clinical judgment must be used.” (p. 527 DSM [25]
[edit] Extent of occurrence
The extent to which pedophilia occurs is not known with any certainty. Some studies have concluded that at least a quarter of all adult men may have some feelings of sexual arousal in connection with children.[26] One study found that professionals failed to report approximately 40% of the child sexual abuse cases they encountered.[27]
[edit] Occurrence in child sex offenders
A perpetrator of child sexual abuse is commonly assumed to be and referred to as a pedophile and will usually meet the DSM criteria for that mental health diagnosis; however, there may be other motivations for the crime[17] (such as stress, marital problems, or the unavailability of an adult partner),[28] much as adult rape can have non-sexual reasons. Child sexual abuse alone may or may not be an indicator that its perpetrator is a pedophile; however, regardless of cause, sexual contact with children is evidence of pedophilia according to the DSM-IV definition.
Some research indicates that most perpetrators of child sexual abuse are not primarily interested in children.[29] In two studies designed to measure sexual preferences using phallometric data, it was found that “30% of the [child sex] offenders tested did not show sufficient arousal [to children] to derive a usable score.” [30] Sociology professor Rüdiger Lautmann, stated in his book on pedophilia that, “In this book I am concerned exclusively with the first type [the true pedophile who “has a general interest in social contact with children, including a sexual dimension”], which constitutes approximately 5% of all pedosexually active men.”[31] A survey of cases of father-daughter incest concluded that most involve fathers who are situational offenders, rather than pedophiles.[32]
As noted by Abel, Mittleman, and Becker[33] (1985) and Ward et al. (1995), there are generally large distinctions between the two types of offenders’ characteristics. Situational offenders tend to offend at times of stress; have a later onset of offending; have fewer, often familial victims; and have a general preference for adult partners. Pedophilic offenders, however, often start offending at an early age; often have a large number of victims who are frequently extrafamilial; are more inwardly driven to offend; and have values or beliefs that strongly support an offense lifestyle.
Attempts have been made to use criminal profiling to identify pedophiles, however, these methods have come under criticism for making claims that are in excess of what the evidence supports.[34]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia
Let me get this straight.Treat pedaphiles like cancer patients.O K. The first thing that we need to do is surgically remove the problem.Then massive doses of radiation and chemo therapy.Then repeat the radiation till the patient is deemed cured and not by a social worker or lawyer but by a doctor.O, by the way,have the patient commute a 100 miles or so at their own expense for treatment.
Hey Peter. Tell you what. We will release him to stay at your house,with your kids. Sounds fair to me. You want him out,you take the responsibilty of looking after him.Oh darn. I said that horrible word…responsibility(sp?) I am sure your son/daughter would love having him in the next room!
I am taking it (as an Uninformed American) that Canada does not have the death penalty, at least not in the providence that this issue took place.
This being the case, I would agree with Kate, lock them up and throw away the key. I dont necessarily agree with the rabbit eared tv, if they have any tv it should be one channel of the wardens choosing, preferably playing a continuous loop of either educational material, Micheal Moore’s documentries, anything with Jim and Tammy Fae Baker (Preferably singing)or Barney videos, edited to remove the children from the screen. I also would fore go the rope. Have the cells have two doors, one locked at all times, the other unlocked. Outside the unlocked door should be a dark hallway that leads to a wood chipper. Thus the problem is solved, you can stay in your cell for the rest of your existence, or take the short walk down the dark passage and become a useful being again by fertilizing the landscape. In the meantime, the public can feel good about themselves because they kept a dangerous criminal off the street and didnt stoop to barbaric measures like the death penalty. Another option would be having a button that the criminal has to push at a given time every day, if the button isnt pushed for a certain number of times, it starts the wheels in motion and after a given timespan, the entire contents of the room would be dumped down the chute to the wood chipper. Again no mess no fuss, all sanitary and ready to house the next “guest” of the state.
I also agree with Larqs, “Lets start with castration and a lobotomy and see how it goes from there.”
Larqs, what would your solution be to those Welfare Whores that have 3 – 5 nullius filius kids with no-name fathers ?
,
There’s a very easy cure to child molesters: .45 ACP to the cerebellum. Quick, easy, no chance of reoffending. Sure there’s a bit of mess, but everything has tradeoffs.
Now we just have to bring back capital punishment, clean out the judges, and settle up with the Bar.
Ratt – what would your’s be?
A Dead-Ender……isn’t that a Gay Necrophiliac?
I grew up in a welfare district in Montreal. When I was 11 years old was the first of many times I was forced to live on the streets. My father was a tyrant who prefered beating me to loving me. I turned to a gang for the bonding I desperately desired. As a result I frequented more detention centres and foster homes filled with the Whitmores of this world than I care to remember,living on the streets I encountered more of the same depraved individuals.I spent my whole youth running from gangs,fighting gangs,and brushing off advances from phedophiles. I hauled my grade nine uneducated ass to the local recruiting centre and joined the army. I paratrooped for ten years,learned french and then got out, finished my high school, and for the last eighteen years have been a flight service director for an airline. Society let me down at every turn, but I picked myself up and made a life for mysef. I now have two beautiful boys that I adore and am proud to say that the cycle of violence and misery has been broken. I choose not to be a victim.
More from the psycobabble wacko house of wackos
Peter Whitmore = compost
h. ryan…congrats! And I would like you to sit and chat with Brodsky and the likes of him.Tell them about the real world.
Okay, get real, homosexuals and pedophiles are not hard-wired; they make choices just like everyone else, except they prefer the world to be fooled into believing they don’t have a choice – that they are born that way, so they will be free to be as depraved as humanly possible with less ramifications and more sympathy. If their sexual preferences are hard-wired, how come so many of them can be easily swayed either way, male or female, child or adult, whatever presents itself, its all good to them.
joanne
ignorance ain’t hard-wired
so try educating yourself
genetic predispositioning has been proven
I am not dyslexic by choice, it’s genetic, as are most human qualities
All they did when my parents took ill with cancer was give them pain killers & laxitives, antacids.
they did not try to treat them. Nor should we with this festering scumbag. He is not worth the risk to my son.
PS kate I have some rope.
Mike in W.R.:
“What better thing to put on Han Island or the North Pole but a JAIL.”
“…we wouldn’t have to have “guards” on duty. The Polar Bears would do a great job for us.”
Great idea Mike, but no polar bear cub would ever be safe at night.