The Classiest Generation.

It's the oddest damned thing but you simply have to be worth more to your employer than the cost of having you around. Otherwise, what's the point?

Photoshop directions:
cross out 'ship'
stick on B.J. Clinton's head

We see at the end of the article our hero is going into finance.

As a financial planner he will be of the do as I say, not as I do variety.

As a cook though, trophy husband might be a more marketable angle for him.

Ahhhhhhhhh. Poor little babie's degree in GLBT basket weaving and Foreign Muzzie Terrorship not paying off?
Suck it up,buttercup!
And this other clown is a Red Seal Chef and can't get a job? BU!!SH!T.But maybe he/she should ask McDinkey for a job at a windmill farm? No surprise though,seeing as it is Canada's Moscow South(Tarwannna)

Oh.Oh.WAIT.....maybe queerbec separtisite's friends could get them a job?

The worth of a bachelor's degree has been in slow decline for some time now, so this outcome is not surprising. An increasing number of companies, even engineering firms, will not hire anyone without at least a master's degree.

This has been going on for years.

How many "licenced" hairdressers do you know?

They go to school...then apprentice....get their licence...no job...meanwhile their former "sponsor" has hired yet another apprentice.

I am sorry my generation is Generation Retard. I don't know how this happened. We had great potential. We had everything. We even had Toonami. And now...retardedness everywhere.

and that Sasquatch is why there isn't a single decent journeyman cook in Canada - they all have to get "real" jobs after they're papered.

Way too many interns + little money = slave wages or none for interns.

It has become quite common for companies and government to "hire" unpaid interns. These are college grads with little or no practical experience in their fields.

Most realise quickly that they need to get a Master's degree in their field if they are serious about a career. A few take their experience as an unpaid intern and build a career from that, but these are the minority and they find that advancing in their career's are more difficult.

Well,
at least she has free birth control.

Not having children will be her most important contribution to society..

TJ - not true. I'm in mining (go figure). Our co-op and summer positions are all paid, and most of our new hires have bachelors degrees (in mining and geology at least, I can't vouch for other departments). We don't pay co-ops and summer students as much as full timers, mostly because they're actually a drag on the rest of use for at least 3 months while we get them up to speed on what their job should involve. When it comes time for us to look at new hires, we've got some experience with a large number based upon their co-op or summer work with us.

The biggest thing is, how many applicants are there for each position? If there are 1000 applicants, you need to pare the list down. Level of education is one way to do it. Volunteer activities is another. Previous job experience.... etc. I'd be willing to bet that the students in the story could find paid positions if they leave the city and move to where the work is. If they're not willing to do that, then they're showing what their work ethic really is. I figured the lifestyle I wanted to lead back in high school and picked a career that would let me get there. I'm happy I did it in that order because taking the harder road early on (and doing the horrid commute before I had a family) has given me a lot more, and easier, choices now.

Deadwood @ 4 - correct, because the chosen fields aren't in demand. In fields where there are shortages that the schools are scrambling to fill, a lower-level degree is lots because industry needs people who can think like one who can do the job, and can see to an apprentice type train-as-you-go with a lesser qualified applicant because they need the employee and they've got to hire them before someone else can.

How's the demand for underwater basket-weavers these days? I'm thinking they'd need a couple of PHd's to be employable.

I take it no one has yet noticed the juxtaposition of the protest signs...

I take it no one has yet noticed the juxtaposition of the protest signs...

Posted by: Kate at November 15, 2012 4:18 PM

Ah for Pete's sake.
basically take this job and shove it,cause you ain't paying me....but money = greed.Sneaky,Kate. Now I know why so many say I am naive,and can't spot hypocrisy.pout.

To a leftist "Money=Greed" is true as long as it's someone else has the money & won't give it to the leftist.

Yea Kate money = greed
heh

...who has the money...

My child accepted an unpaid internship after completing a Masters degree in her field. Three months later she was offered a well paid position based on the work she had done and she hasn't looked back. The degrees were important but the work in the internship got her the job.

Actually, Kate, that was the first thing I noticed. "F... unpaid internships" means "Gimme money", while "Money = Greed" means, er, well, it's BAD, BAD when other people want money but good when I do.

F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function". Doubtless, our little flower girl thinks she falls into this category. However, opposing ideas are not necessarily contradictory. You could believe in limited government in 1939 in Canada, and still support the huge buildup necessary for the war.

Orwell, as usual, said it best when defining "doublethink":

The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them... To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just as long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies – all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth

That is this little girl's problem, and indeed the problem of all the leftards. They know their belief system is untenable, they know it's bound to fail, they see it failing all around them, and yet they still vote for Bambam, Justin Trudeau, and god help us, Olivia Chow-chow. When the system collapses around their ears, these moochers will desperately search for anyone who has anything left, while simultaneously denouncing the mooched-upon as 'greedy'.

The electrical workers union (IBEW) introduced a pre apprenticeship year to the normally 5 year apprenticeship a few years ago because the non union sector started to get coop students who worked for high school credits. No one can compete with free labour, but the pre-apprentices at least got paid 30 percent of the journeyman rate.

And yes, I noticed the juxtaposition of the signs when I first looked at the picture.

Jobs, like real estate, are all about location.
If you just can't give up all the ammenities of Montreal, Toronto, or Vancouver, and you just can't fathom moving to where the employers hire and pay their employees, then you will bed at the mercy of the "buyer".
Toronto and it's citizens rarely seem to demonstrate common sense, and continue to repeat mistakes, be it political (voting L/liberal/socialist) economic (supporting the hi rise condo market) or even holding out hope that the leafs will win the cup this year.

So now the little dears are saying, they want to make money? Really? Then pack your bags and head to Ft Mac.
Anybody that's a red seal chef can get a job, yeah they need to be fed even out in the field. Unfortunately, you might not find a Starbucks when you need your daily hit of a coco moco double latte tappa chappa fratte grande.

Jobs, like real estate, are all about location.
If you just can't give up all the ammenities of Montreal, Toronto, or Vancouver, and you just can't fathom moving to where the employers hire and pay their employees, then you will bed at the mercy of the "buyer".
Toronto and it's citizens rarely seem to demonstrate common sense, and continue to repeat mistakes, be it political (voting L/liberal/socialist) economic (supporting the hi rise condo market) or even holding out hope that the leafs will win the cup this year.

So now the little dears are saying, they want to make money? Really? Then pack your bags and head to Ft Mac.
Anybody that's a red seal chef can get a job, yeah they need to be fed even out in the field. Unfortunately, you might not find a Starbucks when you need your daily hit of a coco moco double latte tappa chappa fratte grande.

@minuteman

Yeah no one can compete with free labor. I remember back in the 90's, I had decided I was going to be a mechanic. Something not many women pick as a career, and not something I stuck to because the entire apprenticeship thing infuriated me to no end. Co-op students I could handle, the $2.25/hr for a "living wage" I couldn't handle. And I had to put that on hold.

@Joseph
Uh...ft. mac huh?
Sure, you pay $60k in rent, food, and everything else, walk away with $30k. There's better opportunities in AB than there. You go there, you're going to get screwed in the face. Remember the tim tarts get paid between $18-22.50/hr and that's enough to cover basics.

Does anyone remember how the Occupests (TM-BCF) in New York claimed they were being exploited by homeless people taking their free food?

Well...

Actually, Kate, that was the first thing I noticed. "F... unpaid internships" means "Gimme money", while "Money = Greed" means, er, well, it's BAD, BAD when other people want money but good when I do.

F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function". Doubtless, our little flower girl thinks she falls into this category. However, opposing ideas are not necessarily contradictory. You could believe in limited government in 1939 in Canada, and still support the huge buildup necessary for the war.

Orwell, as usual, said it best when defining "doublethink":

The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them... To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just as long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies – all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth

That is this little girl's problem, and indeed the problem of all the leftards. They know their belief system is untenable, they know it's bound to fail, they see it failing all around them, and yet they still vote for Bambam, Justin Trudeau, and god help us, Olivia Chow-chow. When the system collapses around their ears, these moochers will desperately search for anyone who has anything left, while simultaneously denouncing the mooched-upon as 'greedy'.

In one of my first Engineering clases at the U of S (in the early 1970's) the professor reassured us that even though demand for engineers was soft then, by the time we graduated there would be options aplenty.
I didn't really pay attention; I was there to learn about my passion. 40 years later, I am still doing what I love and have managed to survive and raise a family using the knowledge gained.
When at all possible, make choices with your heart, not your wallet.

'Course the internship is unpaid.

"You're lucky to have the opportunity to get the experience, nevermind earning a dollar. You don't have any bills to pay do you"?

I'm actually on her side,on this one.

Hey folks, win lose or draw, it's about proving your worth, going to the work and opportunities, or, staying put and accepting whats available.

In my time, I know, like most of over 40 gen, it was "you go to the work and opportunities" it does not come to you.

So, if the entitled generation wishes to stay in their locale, and their city, have their "lifestyle", etc, etc. Be happy, it's what you chose.

In many areas there is close to nil unemployment, wages starting at 20 bucks an hour, show up, work, and future is wide open.

So, pffft to those who don't want to chase their own future and expect someone to "provide it" for them. You get what you deserve and earn.

My two bits.

How come Joe Clark's wife is looking for a job?

I've had some unsolicited e-mails offering me unpaid internships based on the strength of my online photography portfolio. All of the e-mails were rather impolitely answered along the lines of the young lady's sign that accompanies kate's post.

If I create value for your business, I expect a share of it to be directed to me. I will burn in hell before I put a $30K vehicle $35K of camera gear, and a $25K education to work for you with nothing in return. That's how free enterprise is supposed to work. Volunteering for a profit generating concern is just stupid.

Polite disagreement, Foothills Red. Instead of working free for someone else, I would choose to work free for myself, setting up my own business. A lot of things you can learn by 'apprenticing' for others, this is true. But... You can also accomplish a lot on your own these days if you have a good attitude and are willing to Google HOW-TO videos on Youtube.

Who would work for free? If I was a greedy capitalist offering unpaid internship you can bet I would be telling the morons " just keep it up there will be an opening soon" snark!

Mike McCormick: "It's the oddest damned thing but you simply have to be worth more to your employer than the cost of having you around. Otherwise, what's the point?"

Hey, the employers are getting paid, aren't they? A lot of them have paid off their mortgages, their two cars, cottages, holidays, etc.. Under these circumstances, it's obscene that they're asking young grads, often with debts, to work for nothing with no guarantee of a job after they've volunteered for six months or more.

My daughter's in a similar situation with an MA and a great command of the language (more important than many people think). She worked as a waitress while she was in university and paid for most things herself. She's actually been offered a job, at much less than she's worth, but with benefits and a pension, but still hasn't seen the contract or signed it some weeks after verbally accepting the job.

'Absolutely incredible. The employers drive premium cars and live lovely lives. I feel for many of our young people -- not the entitled, know-nothing, I'm-special idiots who expect everything for nothing -- who have lots to offer an employer but there are no opportunities. 'Lots of entitlements going to Boomers, not enough money to extend to the newcomers.

I've been a counter-cultural Boomer -- my husband and I are looking at Freedom 85 if we live that long -- but I'm ashamed of so many Boomers who hold onto jobs for fun money and to guarantee the lifestyles to which they've grown accustomed and aren't willing to step aside for a young person to fill their position. In my experience, most of their kids are fine and they're the only young people getting married, buying houses, and having kids.

Other grads aren't so lucky. And they've been badly let down by some very selfish, self-centred, doin'-OK, Boomers who've never heard -- and/or don't think it's important -- "love your neighbour as yourself." Their motto is "I'm OK, my kids are OK, and I could give a flying ***k if you're OK."

This is the new dispensation: Every person for him/herself.

IOW, dog eat dog. Congratulations, post-Christian Canada!

No need to expose the juxtaposition, Kate. If they gave any thought to what the market wants (or if they paid any attention to it at all) they wouldn't be in the position they find themselves in now.

Just like the shock we're expecting Obama voters to feel once reality sets in.

All else aside, what kind of -idiot- takes an unpaid internship? You want me to work, you pay me. Otherwise go find some other sucker willing to work for free.

That chick has a "L" branded on her forehead. Lewwwwwser!

Thomas Sowell has argued how minimum wage laws mostly affect the young, who have very limited or no marketable job skills. The minimum wage laws price them out of jobs they could potentially use to start building experience that would help them move up to better paying jobs later.

It's the same with internships. The idea of an internship is to accompany working professionals in their day to day job so as to obtain some of their skills. Because an intern is typically still a student, they are entering into an internship to gain the sort of practical experience their academic studies cannot provide.

All they are going to accomplish is making internships rare for everyone else. I would have gladly worked an unpaid internship during college. For lots of people it led directly to a good paying job after graduation.

C-Miner " In fields where there are shortages that the schools are scrambling to fill" What jobs would these be? Apprenticeships are great if you can get one, but in Ontario it is very difficult to get an apprenticeship.

My two cents...

If you're sitting on the ground with a sign in protest, then you're doing something wrong.

Internships are fine, but the interns need to be sharks. Getting experience and having a timeframe for getting out is necessary. Don't expect anything other than learning opportunities.

Eventually you have to hustle for some pay and take opportunities where they present themselves. Grab one whether it's perfect or not and run with it. Cash is cash.

Kids expect stuff on a silver platter. Career paths, money, professional support.
Gotta just hustle and look out for yourself.

If anyone knows of a youngster looking to apprentice in the trades, please send an e-mail to neutralhills at gmail dot com. I am aware of many opportunities in my rural area here in east central Alberta (mostly resource industry, but not all), and I would be more than pleased to put you in contact with the right person.

simple yet so true.

... ... ...

The folks who are getting free stuff, don’t like the folks who are paying for the free stuff, because the folks who are paying for the free stuff, can no longer afford to pay for both the free stuff and their own stuff.

And, the folks who are paying for the free stuff, want the free stuff to stop.

And the folks who are getting the free stuff, want even MORE free stuff on top of the free stuff they’re already getting!

Now, the people who are forcing the people who PAY for the free stuff, have told the people who are RECEIVING the free stuff, that the people who are PAYING for the free stuff, are being mean, prejudiced, and racist.

So, the people who are GETTING the free stuff, have been convinced they need to HATE the people who are PAYING for the free stuff by the people who are forcing the people who are PAYING for the free stuff and GIVING them the free stuff in the first place.

... ... ...

I did not write the above, the author is unknown...

Hi batb,
Sean at 5:47 wrote "If I create value for your business, I expect a share of it to be directed to me." Quite right. 6 minutes earlier, someone named Sean, probably the same person, wrote "Instead of working free for someone else, I would choose to work free for myself, setting up my own business." Also quite right. People who can do neither, get unpaid internships and, I hope, learn something that will help them understand about creating value and/or starting a business.

I cant understand these people that dont want unpaid apprentaships.They will go to university(unpaid),fork out tuition for numerous years and graduate with a nothing degree and wonder what went wrong,but to enroll in an unpaid appretiship is wrong? Give your head a shake,you should PAY for an apprentiship in a plumbing or a like profession! You will end up with a skill and be in demand as an employee,if your not then its YOUR fault.

Well of course you're right, Captain Dave. That is, after all, why so many are majoring in Queer Studies, and Womyn's Studies, and Great African Literature Studies and...

Posted by: Canadian Friend at November 15, 2012 6:33 PM ....
Whoever said that,s/he hit the nail bang on the head.

I figured Kate was talking about, "All work and no play make wall street ghey"

"Sure, you pay $60k in rent, food, and everything else, walk away with $30k"
And in what other job, given you have no training and no experience, can you walk away at the end of a year with 30 grand in your pocket?

Idiot.

The fact that such a thing as unpaid internships exist, is proof that your education was useless. If your education actually provided you with a skill, you would be worth something in the private job market. Learn real skills and this will not be an issue.

This is how Obama won.

when I was working for a temp agency a few years ago (the bloody f**king c**k s**ckers) we were all promised a job in three months, oops, another 2 weeks, bye bye , we dont want you!
Never , ever work fro a temp agency, it is better to make your own min, wage job. They are the biggest liers and thiefs in Canada, ( after politicians of course)

Call me crazy but I have never met someone who was an apprentice and not working in their related field , and I have been in the trades for 20 years. This also includes those gaining their Red Seal.

I am wondering if those who are bitching about this issue are the dispensable types, you know the weakest links? And if not the weakest, definitely not of the "wowing" persuasion.

LindaL - well, that would be your problem then. The unemployment rate where I grew up is over 20%. That's why I'm not there anymore.

MissAnthrope - I was going to bring up some of Sowell's work. Would anyone argue that J.C. Penny didn't have a good head for business? He learned his trade with an unpaid apprenticeship at a merchant. He didn't earn money, he earned knowledge. Is knowledge worth something, or is it (should it be) free?

denis@7:33 - been there, done that. The service they provided me was semi-regular employment while I was looking for a full time job in my field. For someone looking for full time, long term employment, temp agencies are rarely the answer. When you need the pay the bills, they can help.

Is that you, Sandra Fluke?

Joseph said:
"Anybody that's a red seal chef can get a job, yeah they need to be fed even out in the field."

Not true in the food industry. Not anymore. Any food job that pays any good goes to Affirmative Action people. Plus the Red Seal doesn't mean you're a chef, it means you are a trained cook.

I just paid $250 for a plumber, my electrician charges me about $40/hr...perhaps the young miss might want to get into a trade that pays even as an apprentice. Mind you, she might have to get her hands dirty.

My sister graduated college with a degree in English. She worked two unpaid internships for banks, and now she works for one. Despite many employees being laid off, she kept her job because her skills at supporting revenue generators was top notch.

Her friends who looked for jobs in English are either unemployed, working menial jobs, or are earning half her pay.

Pay is all about demonstrating that you are worth your paycheck. That piece of trash on the sidewalk isnt worth the value of her sign. Her mere presence demonstrates the low value of the alternative uses of her time.

Internships in finance in large corporates conglos pay insane wages (mine paid 120% of my previous FT salary w benefits position!). But you work really hard, and there's no BS tolerated. You're right or you're unemployed. Of course these jobs go to the smart and the good, as in grad degrees in real sciences. No hippy-dippy feelgoods need apply...

While I agree with Reginald and bbss, I have to agree with the protestor (and eastern paul) on this one.

Yes there is a glut of people who have taken more or less worthless professional or semi-professional degrees. Yes, if there weren't such a glut, companies wouldn’t be able to get away with having unpaid inters. Yes it is true that occasionally someone comes along and makes one of them work, as in “The Pursuit of Happyness”, that’s not the biggest reason so many internships are unpaid.

Internships select the people most able to do the job. UNPAID internships select the most able person who has WEALTHY AND WELL CONNECTED PARENTS that can do the job. Basically it’s a way of making sure that money and the jobs stay with "the right sort of people."

Look If Harry Van Venderbrooke IV wants a job on Wall Street, well Dad’s golfing buddy at RBS is going to find it a lot easier to fit Harry into an unpaid internship than a paid staff position… not as many hiring regulations involved for an unpaid position; mostly though there won’t be many (if any) of those annoyingly ambitious middle class kids with degrees from State Schools applying; the ones who don’t have good connections but are hard to turn down because they actually work hard and know their stuff. Seriously, how the heck is some kid who worked his way through Iowa State going to be able to afford to move to NYC and live for a year on a salary of $0.00? Bottom line, he won’t. So… the company has an easy way to turn him down, no matter how qualified he is, and Harry is in. Then Dad turns around and picks his golfing buddy’s daughter, Heather, for HIS companies unpaid internship, and all is right with the world.

Somewhere Monica Lewinsky howls at the moon..*eerie*

Joseph said:
"Anybody that's a red seal chef can get a job, yeah they need to be fed even out in the field."

Not true in the food industry. Not anymore. Any food job that pays any good goes to Affirmative Action people. Plus the Red Seal doesn't mean you're a chef, it means you are a trained cook.

I fully agree with your remarks about Red Seal cooks. I've been cooking for over 20 years, and have had my seal for 13 of them. Back when I got mine, it actually meant something and was a medium size feat to get. Now, it's nothing to get. Put your hours in and write a couple tests. No practical exam. They've dummied it down to let all the Health Care workers get it. It'a sad that they can call themselves 'chefs' while pureeing everything. And yes, a LOT of the newer cooks I get to work with are Affirmitave Action types. Can't read English or understand it and stick to their own kind (mainly Phillipino) and mainly speak in their native language. My Chef may institute an English Only policy. I hope he does. While I do enjoy learning new cooking techniques from them, for the most part they are lazy and unreliable.

As to the 41 year old wanna-be French Chef. Good Luck. Just cuz ya got your papers doesn't mean you can cook. Put in the 15 years of 70 hour work weeks, working open to close, back to back and don't complain. It's a grinding business that will wear you out physically and mentaly. And you're only as good as your plate or prep job.

Sorry for the poor grammer and spelling. Feet hurt, cramped hands and I smell like the 100 pounds of salmon I cleaned.

favill -- They don't let you into the trades in Ontario unless you already have some kind of insider connection. The Ontario Conservatives were going to try to improve the situation, but Libs were elected once again. C_Miner, not everyone can just drop everything and move to some other place. Every time the topic of unemployed youth comes up we get a bunch of postings from people who sound like old geezers. It is true that some young people have been naive about their choice of study, but it simply is not an wide open job market as it may have been years ago. I know smart kids who work very hard at menial or low paying jobs because too many decent jobs have disappeared. Not everyone is cut out to be a computer programer -- and even those people are out of work these days. I know a guy who is very experienced in high tech, program management, telecommunications -- and these days he drives a school bus, part time. People are adapting, but I do not blame them for being frustrated.

Isn't an "unpaid internship" the equivalent of going to university? In a way, it's better than university as one doesn't need to pay tuition.

Agree with those who note that if people had taken courses of value in university, they wouldn't be doing unpaid internships after they've gotten their degree.

In the medical field, one can work with a specialist in a given area in order to increase ones knowledge of that specialty. This type of interaction is typically unpaid. For the person doing the teaching, it represents a loss in income because passing on knowledge takes time and thus the number of patients one can see when there is a student around is decreased. The best situations are when one has someone with good knowledge in another area of medicine so that both parties benefit from the arrangement.

A lot of the minimum wage work I did during summers at university involved research and it was incredibly useful in my later life. My medical clerkship and internship were also paid at close to minimum wage rates (given the number of hours we worked), but again these were very intense learning experiences and I wish I could still put in 100+ hours/week as easily as I used to back then.

I wonder if the woman holding up the sign in the picture realizes that an unpaid internship would be a far better deal than her expensive university education? What is needed is a system that allows people to go to work in fields as trainees with no pay (but allowed to live on student loans) at which point they can make decisions about whether they want to continue with the occupation they've tried out or go to something else.

Credentialism is a major factor in screwing up a society which believes that the proper credentials are far more important than a demonstrated ability to perform a job. I've watched computer science go from a wide-open meritocracy to a credential dominated field where I'd no longer be able to get work because all I have is 40+ years of programming experience. One of the things I've noticed more and more is medical IT people coming back at me with "what qualifications do you have to criticize our perfect system" when they haven't a clue about the questions that I'm asking nor do they understand my proposed solutions. They seem more ready to dismiss my comments because of my total lack of formal credentials. They also are people who view the word "hacker" in a pejorative manner. /rant

the jobs can't find workers, and the unemployed can't find a job, someone needs to build a road map, so the two can meet!!!

sittin on one's ass holding a sign is not heading in the rite direction!!!

LindaL - I didn't say it was easy to move. I lived in my car for a little while. I'm glad that didn't last long, and that I don't have to now. Just for curiosity's sake, what is your opinion of unions? Do they make it easier or harder for workers starting out to find jobs?

loki - largely agreed. I've never been good enough at computers to be considered a hacker, but did find a way in through the back door of a company that needed cheap computer support, fast. That extra skill set got me the chance to try for the position of junior engineer, once they had their feet on the ground. I guess I passed, because they offered me a choice of 2 jobs: one as the junior engineer I wanted to be, one as the tachnical support guy they knew they needed (and that they knew I could do regardless of what the paper said: I'd held things together for 6 months with no budget.) The worst thing for a starting applicant to face is the faceless competition of being one resume out of 100. So how did I get in as a computer tech? Fighting against a park proposal on a land use planning board, but that's a separate story.

Everything you do becomes a part of who you are, and of what your skill set is and includes. You'll never know where the skills you've build up will come in handy, just like you'll never know which ones you'll never use again. There is no easy road to success. If there were, it would be crowded by those who want success without having to work for it. There are also different levels of success: I figure I'm a success because I'm within 30 years of retirement and have a steady job and reasonably secure prospects for my family. I'll never be a VP of anything, but I'd rather have the extra time with my kids for hugs and tickles instead of climbing the corporate ladder. Will it cost me? In money only. And that's the lesser of costs I'm looking at now.

LindaL: And why can't you drop everything and move somewhere else? If the things that are holding you back are keeping you unemployed or underemployed you need to get the advice and support of your family and move forward with your life, not sit and wait for the government to change.

I'd be willing to bet that the students in the story could find paid positions if they leave the city and move to where the work is. If they're not willing to do that, then they're showing what their work ethic really is. I figured the lifestyle I wanted to lead back in high school and picked a career that would let me get there. I'm happy I did it in that order because taking the harder road early on (and doing the horrid commute before I had a family) has given me a lot more, and easier, choices now.
Posted by: C_Miner at November 15, 2012 4:10 PM

Well put C_Miner. I took a similar path, got a degree through a co-op program that paid for the university costs, in an engineering field that was obscure enough to never graduate enough people to fill the need, and I've never had a problem getting as much work as I want. Like you say, it means I went where the work was. Sometimes exotic, sometimes uncomfortable, but always an adventure and the rewards make it all worth while. When you become self employed it just gets better.

C_miner, sounds like you've used some of the same techniques that I've used to get computer work. I used to think that if I ever got fed up with medicine I could always go back to hacking, but it seems that the glory days of software have ended in N. America. One niche I could fill is programming embedded systems as there aren't many people around now who are comfortable in squeezing their programs into 32 Kb or even 16 Kb of RAM. One of the advantages of growing up in an era where 64 Kb of RAM on a minicomputer was considered huge.

Lots of programming has been outsourced to India and elsewhere. People I know who've done well in Canada have been jacks of all trades with good programming skills, electrical engineering backgrounds and ability to learn very quickly when they have to deal with a new project. That was the fun part of programming a new machine -- learning the complete instruction set and architecture in one night and then writing code for the CPU the next night. Sleep wasn't a big part of my programming days.

The way that I've managed to get ahead is to stay a generalist. By knowing a little about lots of subjects, I've ended up doing projects where I found myself quickly indispensable since everyone else was highly focused on their one little area of expertise. If one needs to learn a subject now, it's trivially easy with the internet as I had to physically go to libraries 30 years ago. Also, I tend to get bored easily and doing the same thing every day for my whole life is something I can't imagine. People are generalists by nature and I tend to leave specialization for insects.

Loki -- Unfortunately, you will not be selected for an unpaid internship in many (most) fields unless you are either -- already in university or have a degree in whatever are you are attempting to find work in.

albert -- young people may be flexible, but if you are a little bit older and have lost your job you will have a home and family commitments. I know someone in BC who needs a job, but a move to Alberta would require a family break-up as one partner has a job locally. The business they attempted to set up did not work out so money is now tight. What is holding a lot of people back is simply a depressed job market.

C_Miner -- I think unions are problematical these days -- and for sure make things more difficult to break into a field.

NMEEE: "the jobs can't find workers, and the unemployed can't find a job, someone needs to build a road map, so the two can meet!!!" Someone at Industry Canada tried to set up a database to address this issue some years back. It was a complete boondoggle. Apart from jobs in the oil patch, exactly where are there jobs where they can't find workers? I agree that Fort Mac offers opportunity, but I don't think that the jobs available there will solve the jobless problem in places like Toronto -- very, very competitive. A recent job in marketing had something like 1100 applicants. It is very cut-throat out there. I do not think (broadly speaking) that young people are lazy (some are), but more, I think they are just frustrated.

The way that I've managed to get ahead is to stay a generalist. By knowing a little about lots of subjects, I've ended up doing projects where I found myself quickly indispensable since everyone else was highly focused on their one little area of expertise.

Exactly, specialization is for insects.

A lot of my work is troubleshooting systems, and I find that most of the problems tend to occur at the interface between experts, where stuff falls into that crack and gums up the works because the experts can't see outside their boxes.

Whats hold a lot of entrepreneurs back is a lack of economic freedom and over burdensome taxation. Holding back the entrepreneurs is depressing the job market.

But we need that taxation to pay for the entitlement generation who hates everyone else for apparently being so greedy and wanting to keep their wealth and not creating ready made turn key jobs.

France of course is going to be a case study for the entitlement generation with their 75% income tax and 60% business investment tax.

with 10 billion dollars of corporate tax hikes and another 10 billion dollars of personal taxes to pay for Francois Hollande's entitlement voters.

LindaL - I'm glad to hear you say that (unions are problematic). They were one of my biggest problems when I was trying to find work. Union shop equaled favoritism in hiring, very hard to get in.

Loki - specialization can be good, but not too focused, nor only on one topic. I've found that the blend of reasonable knowledge of computers and reasonable knowledge of mining has done me well. There's lots of room for synthesis. Although I must note that a major in underwater basket-weaving with a minor in Andalusian erotic nose-picking would still leave one unemployable. A mix of USEFUL skills is what is desired. Sounds like you've got a good mix.

LindaL: "A recent job in marketing had something like 1100 applicants."

How many of them were Red Seal Cooks?

Folks, young entitled idiots who want everything for nothing aside, this is an issue: joblessness among our young people who do want to work and are willing to work hard.

Between the nepotistic unions and the Boomers hanging onto their jobs because of the vagaries of the market, talented, motivated young people are finding it very difficult to find work with decent pay and benefits because either they don't know anyone who can shoe-horn them into a position or the Boomers' salaries and benefits are so prohibitive to their employers that all young people are being offered is time-limited contracts with no benefits.

That's a fact regardless of the twit and her sign at George Brown.

By far the best post yet, Frank Q!

Gus nails it at 7:12.

Blammo!

I would only add that unpaid internships, sometimes, are only unpaid in the sense of cash. A decent internship will pay you experience and learning. While you are initially a drag on the business, you gradually learn enough until you can produce something of value.

Which, as Gus implies, is what college\university is supposed to do in the first place. Students today should be wise to what that really means.

My wife and I always talk about how the system is rigged.

The education system teaches (almost) no skills that make kids employable.

The minimum wage laws ensure that those same kids will never get hired, as the employer cannot afford to pay so much for so little.

@Horny Toad

"And in what other job, given you have no training and no experience, can you walk away at the end of a year with 30 grand in your pocket?

Idiot."

The only idiot is you. Those are for highly skilled trades, or do you have no clue about what you're talking about? Obviously you don't. The people walking out with 30k/yr, are the pipefitters, master welders, mechanics, and CNC ops, along with fabbers.

@LindaL......Anyone in this country can move anywhere if they want to. Especially young people with no family ties (IE: their own kids). There are many people with homes and families on Ontario and other provinces that work in Alberta because that's where the work is. Some move west others commute. Your suggestion that you need inside connections to get apprenticeships is absurd. All companies want young apprentices regardless of who they are. They must be willing to do work.

If someone is doing an unpaid internship and don't like it they are free to leave. One thing they should do before getting involved in the situation is to stipulate a length of service. Do it for a few months and if nothing comes of it leave! If you have a term of agreement(written) it can be used to your advantage if it comes up in a future interview.

Also....work placements in college or university are often unpaid...but if someone in charge is willing and confident to teach the intern about the business they do learn and can benefit $$$ wise in the long run.

Many of the older generation "worked" for their parents (I did) in their job and learned many skills....some useful or/and that they didn't want to do what their father/mother was doing. Lesson learned.....often priceless.

In Ontario people who take the XRAY (Diagnostic imaging) program at university _pay_ for their internship program. They pay to work at the Hospital.

Now, what was _your_ complaint?