Setting the retirement age at 65 was done in the days when people lived shorter lives and a much larger fraction of the population was involved in physical work. I have patients in their 80's who are still working and have no intention of retiring. Work is probably the main thing that's keeping them healthy and preventing dementia.

Doctors don't seem to retire very well; most of the "retired" doctors where I live have closed their practices but instead of sitting at home in front of a TV losing brain cells, they do locums, hospital work or subspecialize in an area they've had a great interest in. One of the nursing home physicians I know is older than many of the people there. Dr. Abram Hoffer, a physician who should be well known to all Saskatchewan residents, practiced until he was over 85 and he had to take the BC College of Physicians to court to preserve his right to practice. Unfortunately he died in 2009 so I won't be able to refer patients to him any more.

The solution to the lack of skilled workers in many fields in Canada is to raise the retirement age to 70. This, of course, is occupation dependant as it's unreasonable to expect a 67 year old with severe osteoarthitis to work 16 hour days as a laborer. I have no plans for retiring as I happen to feel best when I'm working.

The most hilarious portion of the whole article was asking for the government to create "sustainable options for seniors". Is this related to the "sustainable energy" that has put Ontario electricity bills through the roof? Or is it the "sustainable" carbon tax in BC which makes sure that more seniors freeze to death in the winter because they can't pay their gas bills?

The BC government is attempting to milk as much money from the CPP as possible as every person I see who has a medical disability gets told by the local welfare office to bring in a CPP disability form to their physician. I refuse to fill these out as every single form I've submitted has been rejected and the $60 pittance that CPP pays for these forms doesn't come even close to paying for the time that is required to provide the necessary documentation. Also, from an ideological perspective, I believe that only people who are retirement age or older should be collecting CPP.

If the retirement age is raised I suspect that a lot of the people still working at age 70 will get more and more resentful towards the idle youth waiting for their high paid dream job in puppetry or teaching basket weaving to come up which will let them pay off their massive student loans incurred getting their absolutely worthless "university" degrees.

eh?

What do you care about foreign owned? You've brought the third world in to squat and use it all up anyway. I thought it was all about equal sharing with you people, now it’s a problem with “foreign owned.”

Now we get too look forward to the hard working Jamaicans and Haitians to labour away pay all their tax's and support us in our middle age. Bwaaaahaaahaha.

Eh? the alternative is to work until you die like every previous generation of humanity. Alternatively, you could work until you accumulate enough of your own money so see out your time or maybe have children who will be willing to look after in the brief period you have left when you are not able to work any more. This is a model that worked quite well from the beginning of time until about 50 years ago.

And really, I have no idea what you are babbling on about.

I think his "0.001%ers WHO MUST BE OBEYED" is lefty code for Jewish people.

Simply cancel OAS to those who choose to retire and live in another country. Might be mean but I get fed up with the immigrants who I work with and talk about retiring to the old country once the pension(s) comes in.

Whiners take note , in Switzerland you are one your own until age 70 (no CPP or OAS equivalents until 70).

... and anyone who subscribes to Bob Rae's math on the subject obviously is not from Ontario.

Loki, exactly and that is a great philosophy. A distant surgeon relative of mine practices a little surgery on the Sunshine Coast and he is in his mid seventies. I am retired from farming due to a cracked vertebrae but keep busy and occupied in some public service and with other pursuits I never had time for before. Older farmers should not jump off combines, tractors or trucks, even when they are in a hurry.

Actuarily adjusted the retirement age should be north of eighty.

The liberals - according to the very biased article this thread links to - " What we need is a voluntary supplemental Canada Pension Plan, a low-cost, high-return, universal option that Canadians can trust.”

That's what the entire world wants - low-cost ; high return - but no one can deliver it.

There are three options - raise the contributuon rate
Or taxes; lower the benefit; or raise the age it starts.

The lpc favoured raising the rate. The ndp favors doubling the benefit which would mean more than doubling the contribution rate from ten percent to over twenty percent.

On the subject of retirement ....

When talking to a friend in the US who retired a number of years back with a gold plated pension from a major US company we both worked for , I asked him how can the company afford such lucrative pension payouts ?

His answer ... easy .. the average life expectancy after retirement from that company is 18 months !!! ... and he backed it up listing the various guys I had also known who were in the 18 month category.

Bob Rae(LOL!) is wrong about the Conservatives not having a mandate to save the country from socialist bankruptcy, that's exactly the mandate. Judy Sgro is an idiot, "universal option"? F off.

Regardless of the average Canadians political beliefs, this will hurt support for the Conservatives. Especially support from Canadians in the workforce, who for over their lifetime of paying into this ponzi scheme for others, that when there turn comes they will not receive the same benefits. Yeah, somehow I don't think that will go over well, regardless of the financial state of OAS. I think the only way out for Harper is to offer a tax credit for those who are going to be disenfranchised of benefits calculated using their lifetime contributions to the plan and the percentage of reduced OAS they will receive after reform. As a result of this, there will be less money in the treasury for the so called Conservatives to spend. As you can tell I am very disappointed of my party, the Conservatives, who spend and govern like drunken Liberals.

I don't know, work until 80? I've tried to fill some of those "vacancies" looking for skilled workers at my age and I get told I'm over qualified for the job. I'm only 60.

Corporate culture seems to be hard wired to bunt you after 55, they don't want to pay you what you're really worth until 65 - get lost! They'll hire some bolt inserted/tattooed and blued "thing" to replace you, it seems, saving them from accusations of sexism or any other PC label.

Bwahahahahaha. They want thinking people to use the Boob's math,which started Morontario well on it's way to a have-not,3rd world province. AND they want us to listen to the Pole Dancer as she speaks for seniors??? Leftardism really is a mental disease,but an extremely dangerous one,right up there with schitzophrania(sp?)

This isn't about setting retirement at 65 or at 67. I know a couple that retired at about 62, he worked an entry level job his whole life and she never worked. If changing OAS benefits from 65 to 67 in 20 years seriously affects your retirement planning, there's probably not enough cushion anyways.

Gord Tulk, the NDP don't mention that employers pay half of the CPP, so the increase is actually double of what they say. Typical socialist math.

Northernont, This might not hurt their polls quite as badly as you think IF they can get the message out about the true state of the OAP programs. The main problem they will have will be the articles like the one linked to, no attempt to include any smidgen of facts or opinion from the other side of the debate, merely a listing of quotes from the libs. It's a big IF though.

I am close to drawing CPP and OAS. I have already mortgaged my grandchildren's future to the tune of more than a $ trillion if you include CPP shortfall. I'll be damned if I'm going to give them a break by retiring later. Who do those greedy little bast---s think they are?

I think this will hurt Harper in the polls. There is only on thing he could do that would help put the Liberals back in power quicker and that is cancel health care....

Many people around 65 or just older are not in good enough health to work full time if at all. Sure there are some fortunate people that can work till they are 80 but many can't.

“Instead of bringing in the changes our pension....., this government is STRIPPING benefits .....”

When Judy Sgro is involved,any derivative of the word "strip" should be avoided. I had NO idea this corrupt b**** was still around,are the voters in her Riding mentally "challenged"?

The refrain of the far right seems to be "we can't afford it/don't like it, so never mind the explicit or implicit contract citizens have/had with government. Screw them, they're not like me."

Work till 70? Good luck at that. I'm in my early 50s, out of work for a year, and the universal response to my job search for ANYTHING has been "Are you serious? Why are you applying here?"

Fortunately, a colleague assisted me in finding something that pays half of what I was making a year ago. And I was still asked "Are you serious"?

djb: I don't know what you do for work but right now we need 11000 workers in Sask. If anyone tells me they can't find a good job at high wages is someone that just lied to me. Get of your lazy a@@ and go to work and stop asking others to pay your way.

Yes, if Harper touches OAS or CPP, he's toast. I can hear the whining already. Part of Harper's base is old people. Don't frig with your base. The day the old Progressive Conservatives lost me was the day Kim Campbell, as justice minister, booted me in the balls with extended gun control.

Well of course the Liberals don't care about the country. They didn't introduce CPP OAS for the good of the country they brought it in to get re-elected/stay elected. Liberals are corrupt and corrupting with their constant theft, be it inter-generational like CPP/OAS or simply taking from the productive to give to the idle like EI, Welfare etc etc etc.

Dear DJB et al:

Please carefully read Loki's excellent post. I have some related questions for you:

1. Do you truly understand that the mathematics of OAS no longer works if you don't have enough younger workers paying for the older folks who are no longer working?

2. On the assumption that you do understand & agree with #1, how could you possibly be against any government changing the rules so the math does work?

These are straightforward, simple questions. A serious response would be much appreciated!

Harper could cut the gold plated pension of MP's for a start. Then have a hard, cold look at the civil service and make some substantial cuts there. The amount of civil servants in both the provinces and the federal government have become so bloated it is ridiculous. Government has to realize it can't be everything to everyone and concentrate on the core services.

This issue is certainly touched off a lot of comments everywhere. But I agree with Harper's move. If you desperately need the OAS at 65, then you made some bad decisions. Now those younger and still working should just shut up and plan for this eventuality. My points on this topics:

1. If you are 60+ and still have a mortgage, you mismanaged your financial life, you made bad decisions. Suck it up.
2. A 20 year phase in as suggested by some pundit in the G&M is silly and pointless. Do it within 8 years max, 3 months increase in qualifying age every year. Or want to be really brave and aggressive, double the rate and complete the process of reaching 67 within 4 years. The agressive rate would have a direct impact on me but it is the right, smart ,courageous financial thing for the government to do.
3. The Feds already made a long delayed move by phasing out the serverance retirement bonus. That was a ridiculous perk that should never had been given. It is practically unheard of in private industry.
4. Tone down the indexing of the government(both federal and provincial) civil servant pensions. Again, this is a perk rarely if ever seen in private industry.
5. A tall order but please please drastically reduce government waste, mismangement and boondoggles. Probably pointless to ask, politicans being what they are, all fat greedy pigs at the trough.
6. And above all, to set the example of belt tightening, quickly move to thin the gold plating on MP's pensions.

The Conservatives have played with the statistics, exaggerating the future population of seniors in Canada to make it seem that the OAS is unaffordable. Meanwhile, Harper wants to introduce more tax breaks that will benefit only wealthy people. The people of Canada will have something to say about this, and it will be "Goodbye, Charlie Brown."

DJB
I live in Vancouver where my son has a construction business. He has had to turn down some jobs because he can't find enough people to work.As well there are thousands of jobs going begging in the north. Get off you ass and venture more than 2 blocks from your home.

"The Conservatives have played with the statistics, exaggerating the future population of seniors in Canada to make it seem that the OAS is unaffordable. Meanwhile, Harper wants to introduce more tax breaks that will benefit only wealthy people"
So, enlighten us and tell us what the REAL stats are. And ,btw, how many poor people have you ever been employed by.Poor people don't create anything.

Robert,two excellent clearly stated points.

Custom10 has it right. Start at the top, in the bureaucracy and then make changes gradually to a system that is sustainable.

I just love the personal comments from people who don't know me or my situation. They seem to think I've been sitting around for a year doing nothing as opposed to working a series of temp jobs while busting my ass and building a small business. So to those wise souls... Go FSCK yourselves.

Robert W...
Does immigration come to mind? Oh, wait... the far right is opposed to growing the population that way, too.

Get off your a$$es and start breeding! Selfish bastids!

djb

What does the S stand for?

Harpers done, Harpers done, Harpers done, Harpers done, This is what I have heard for the last 5 years. In reality Dion is done, Iggy is done, and tugaban is really done. Harper will be Canada's Prime Minister for the next at lest 10 more years.

Ford: Where did I say ANYTHING about Harper in this comment thread? ANYTHING? Cite, please.

As for the "S", look it up.

"never mind the explicit or implicit contract citizens have/had with government"

Huh? The government is us! The 'contract' is simply forced extortion at gun point for the re-election of politicians who have figured out a sneaky way to bribe the foolish with money they did not earn and do not deserve.

This topic brings to mind our own personal ability (and I'd like to suggest, duty) to act as a counterweight to the drivel of the Liberal and NDP that is lapped up and regurfitated by so much of the media.

I'm in a very left-leaning city of about 80,000 with one daily and two weekly newspapers. It's been my experience that all of them have been most accomodating in printing my frequent 'letters to the editor'.

Many contributors to SDA are fine writers, able to easily frame cogent argument in the 250 words (or less) that newspaper editors require. I'd like to encourage each of you to become pro-active in using this valuable resource in winning hearts and minds in your communities.

As enjoyable as discourse is on SDA, I fear we're talking in an echo chamber, reinforcing our own conviction without much influence on those not here.

An opinion letter that 50,000 in your community might read is not something to be sniffed at - and it gives the likeminded in your area the moral support of knowing that they - while themselves silent - are not alone in their conservative beliefs.

The inevitable change of social services has to take place, as the bottomless money pit, that Fiberals, Dippers, and poverty pimps believe exists, is but a fantasy.

With the anticipated doubling of the 65+ generation within 20 years, not only will OAS come under scrutiny, but more importantly, our Medical system will be under extreme pressure to deal with the geriatric set.

Endless benefits do not exist. OAS is but glorified welfare for all. Means testing must take place. Leftists hate that, but, it means those of wealth that don't need it, don't get it. Its not like CPP.

And yeah, the left will exploit it for all its worth, because money comes from rainbows and leprechauns, and PMSH pulls wings off of flies, or something like that.

I'm 64 so this issue should mean a lot to me. On Nov. 30 of this year I should receive my OAS. However, I hadn't even realized I was eligible until I got the application form from the government last month without even asking for it. My husband and I have planned our retirement so we'll be able to continue in the lifestyle to which we have become accustomed so the OAS is a bonus.

This bonus is going to bankrupt our country. It is not sustainable in it's present form. I agree that PM Stephen Harper needs to change the system to meet the needs of future generations. If we can't afford it, we can't afford it. That's common sense.

First off, OAS isn't a pension, it is WELFARE for people 65 and older who are below a certain income level so that they don't have to eat cat food and freeze in the dark. CPP is a pension. Your RRSP savings, converted to a RRIF are a pension. No one has paid into OAS, it is just how we as a society have decided to share government revenues with those who are poor. Most OAS recipients are elderly women who stayed home and never built up CPP credits or had any savings. Phasing in the eligibility age by extending it a month or two each year over 10 years is not going to be a shocker for anyone approaching retirement and won't cut anyone off who is already receiving it.
Once again, Prime Minister Harper and the Conservatives have to be the grown ups in the room to deal with out of control entitlements.
My parents are both in reciept of OAS, but they made sure that I went to school and got ahead enough that I will not be able to collect it. I am glad that I won't be able to collect, just as I am glad that I am not on welfare.

So OAS is a Ponzi scheme too? Paul Martin admitted as much about the CPP in a newspaper article last fall. I commented about it here at the time, but I don't have the exact date.

This is the kind of BS liberal math that screwed up Ontario. I can't wait to leave this province but unfortunately my next posting is Manitoba. Ugh.......