"...massive cuts to the Federal Government's workforce."

Cut, cut, cut. It all sounds so sissy. Doesn't anybody chop anymore?

The standard method of 'cost containment' is attrition and retirement; hardly the policy of MASSIVE LAYOFFS.

Naturally, the union types want more members because that means ever more union dues for the labor bosses to agitate for ever larger government.

The Centre for Policy Cataclysm shrieking about 60,000 job losses is quite disingenuous.

Cheers

Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief

1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”

from the article...

...While the number of civil servants had grown by just 20 per cent in five years, their pay and benefits had mushroomed by half because among the new hires were far more administrators and professionals and fewer blue-collar workers, clerks and secretaries....

yet it's the ones that do the actual work that will bear the brunt of the cuts and shuffles, not the layers upon layers of needless, bloated bureaucracy driven by otherwise unemployable people whose only qualification is a liberal arts degree and who are loaded into positions managing departments they've never worked in and have no clue about

but all civil servants are tarred with the same brush by those armchair pundits who don't know what they do either, so when your cheque is late or something slips through the cracks in the public safety, law enforcement or food/drug/consumer item inspection fields because the solution was to get rid of the workers instead of the managers, don't blame the civil servant, blame yourself.

Someone smarter than me observed that government programs start as something designed to help those that need help and evolve into something that we can't do without. The fallacy is that we did without the program for years before whatever it is was instituted and people didn't die, or starve, or not find work. Someone, somewhere, needs to apply a better measuring stick against the effectiveness of the programs verses the efficiency of running them.

As an aside, Martin and Chretien cut the public service and the military back in the early '90s. The military has not recovered from the cuts but the public service has boomed well past the starting numbers. According to what I can find during a quick net search, the Liberals axed about 15,000 military positions and around 45,000 public service positions. I figure since the military is still hovering around 60,000 they could afford to cut at least 45,000 public service jobs.

I love that reference to "The Centre for Policy Hysteria". Quoting the CCPA on politics is the same as quoting Greenpeace on the environment, one song,all the time.

The government can shrink the civil service quite quickly through attrition, but the one item they never seem to address is the multiple layers of completely unnecessary managers in every department.

Anyone who's ever been a CS is familiar with the management style,hire as many underlings as possible,and thereby deflect any responsibility for any screw-ups to so many people,it's impossible to "stop the buck" anywhere.

The same situation exists at every level of government in Canada,right down to local school boards and city departments. We need to clean house every few years,but people are addicted to their easy,well pensioned, do-little government jobs.

If Harper actually DOES lay off a few thousand civil servants,expect comparisons to Hitler to be among the milder comments.

Only problem is, its not the wages, its the pensions. In our wacky taxation system a PS who makes 100g's gives back 40,000 in taxes then throws another 40g's into the local economy, which is taxed again. Public servants have become a large part of trickle down economics. Its the Pensions that need to be brought in line.

dmorris says "If Harper actually DOES lay off a few thousand civil servants,expect comparisons to Hitler to be among the milder comments."

Yes...the left always likes to portray anything to their right as "fascist". The odd thing, however, is that the leftists ARE the fascists.

As the famous motto of the Italian fascists reveals.

Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato

“Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State"

...Its the Pensions that need to be brought in line...

-billg at January 24, 2012 1:49 PM

pensions which get taxed yet again and what's left after that is spent in the local economies...

I always agree with Mr. Gunter but I have to wonder where he got the figure of 450,000 civil servants. The majority of civil servants are PSAC members and their website says they 'represent' 172,000 members. PIPS number 57,000, the posties are 54,000 and the RCMP is 26,000 strong. There are a few other unions representing small groups such as IBEW for the electricians but nowhere near the 195,000 remaining if the figure of 450,000 is to be believed. Wiki says that the Forces have a regular strenght of 67,000 plus 43,000 reservists. CSIS does not list the number of employees for some reason, paranoid buggers.

I am assuming the Forces are included in that 450,000. If you take away the 110,000 regulars and reserves from 450,000 you're left with 340,000. Now take away 26,000 for the RCMP and you're down to 314,000.

Taking 50,000 out of 314,000 would mean cutting 15% of the workforce. Stop guffawing in the back, being a faceless cog is arduous work. There is no way to remove that many people without closing down various programs and possibly ministries. There will be a huge political battle with much wailing and gnashing of teeth from the usual pantywaists who don't realise that Canada flourished before government became a socialist Leviathan.

I would put Pravda, I mean the CBC on the chopping block first. Only totalitarian governments need a state broadcaster. StatsCan could be easily replaced by private researchers. Simplify the tax code to a flat tax and trim down CRCA or whatever the tax bandits call themselves now. As for Canada Post, well the world is going paperless, how badly do Canadians need the weekly sales fliers?

Scroll through this list and tell me what we can do without:

http://canada.gc.ca/depts/major/depind-eng.html

Assisted Human Reproduction Canada?
Canada-Chile Agreement on Environmental Co-operation? Canada Council for the Arts, etc., etc.

there is no shortage of completely useless 'programs' that the various liebral governments enacted for no good reason other than to buy special interest group's support and supposedly our votes with our own money

the problem is that when you start to cut them then the moonbat media will start to scream and all that will really be accomplished is that an entirely new layer of bureaucrats will be hired to oversee the dismantling and we'll end up spending millions to save thousands

the only good part is that it's not an election year so the memory will be well faded by then and hopefully a tax cut will be enough to soften the loss

hopefully core government programs that need to be in place won't be damaged in the process but in the end, it all depends on which cabinet minister has which program's offices in his/her riding...

Actually, if you kill the CBC first that will be one big-ass moonbat media organization out of the way. Might make subsequent hacking and slashing a tad more peaceful.

Trust me when the ALCB was shut down there was a hew & cry that these people would not find jobs. After a few years it was found out most where doing better than they where in a government job. A lot owned Liqueur stores themselves. If the Public service was reduced not very many would suffer for long.
The same thing happened when most of the welfare users where cut off. Most thought it changed their lives for their better. Since they got jobs with dignity back. From 200,000 down to 12, 000.
Again cutting the civil service sounds bad but in the end will stimulate jobs. It one of those counter intuitive paradox's.

Revnant, what is the ALCB? Thanks,

"yet it's the ones that do the actual work"
I consider this statement to be an oxymoron.
In my opinion there isn't a single beareucrat who is worth what they are getting paid.
Non-nada

It's simply more left-wing "pre-emptive" action. It's a Marxist political tactic to prevent any downsizing of the Public Sector should it be necessary in the future. By lying about the downsizing -- which is not actually occurring -- it puts the Government on the defensive and practically eliminates it from occurring if it should be justifiable in the future. And Canadians will permanently be held hostage to neo-Marxist incrementalism until the economy collapses or their delusional revolution succeeds.

Until Canadians recognize Marxist tactics they will never be able to deal with it intelligently. The biggest disservice our education system has done to this country is not critically teaching Marxism in the schools (as they do in the U.S.); not teaching the history of Communist and Fascist revolutions and the methods of class warfare that can undermine and ultimately destroy a free constitutional democracy. Most Canadians don't know what a communist revolution looks like even if they were to trip over it.

The Left is using these pre-emptive class warfare tactics on every level, and with every issue. Canadians need to take the bull by the horns and "pre-empt" these pre-emptive lies and scare the weasels back into their holes by playing on their own fears. It's psychological warfare, folks.

Since they Left is going to lie about it anyway, politicians have to have the guts to call their bluff, for example:

a) Openly declare that we are going to make massive cuts to the Public Sector

b) Openly declare that we are going to abolish abortion

c) Openly declare that we are going to abolish Gay marriage

d) Et cetera, et cetera.

We will forever be falsely accused of doing these things anyway, and rather than being held hostage to these false accusations we need to hold the radical Left hostage to its own lies. It's called the "semiotics of resistence" -- using the Marxist principle in reverse.

It will drive the lying radical Left bonkers, to the point that they will either turn to violent revolution (whereupon we can jail them under the criminal code!), or they will become certifiably insane and we can get them psychiatric help. And the rest of society can go back to dealing with the above issues in a rational manner the way grown-ups do...

I will have to repeat it again,federal govt workers DONT pay federal tax,provincial govt workers DONT pay provincial tax,municipal workers DONT pay municipal tax and teachers DONT pay school tax.They are PAID from taxes that people that arent civil servants pay.USSR had NO taxes of any kind as EVERYONE worked for the government.

Its the Swivel Serpents that will put Canada into default...sooner or later...taxpayers are paying full time money for part time workers...we can't afford any more of them...there is no such thing as work..a couple of hours a day...is not work....///

I sit and shake my head at the all-knowing, all-seeing pundits that are so sure what goes on in a government department, yet have in all likelihood, never set foot in one and depend on imaginary stereotypes for their enlightenment and believe that a cabinet minister's son-in-law parachuted into a titled position writing memos he knows nobody will ever read or heed is the same as an RCMP officer...or the file clerk making sure your CPP cheque arrives on time..or a fisheries agent monitoring our natural resources or a food inspector keeping you free from the level of disease the rest of the world faces...until they can learn to tell the difference between bureucrats and public workers, they're pointless to talk to..and yes, public servant union officials are the worst...but that's because PSAC was created by the government and the officials tend to run for the ndp leadership...most of the members don't want them either, we're just stuck with them by gov't mandate...although a few groups are starting to break away.

overly long, maybe, I trimmed it a bit but people don't always follow links and the point here is fairly well made...even if it's an American take on things, just substitute the applicable Canadian Departments..and remember, with no public servants providing enforcement, inspection or records keeping, there ARE no regulations.

http://matt-rock.newsvine.com/_news/2010/03/23/4059943-a-world-with-no-government-regulations-you-say

Let's go on an adventure, shall we? Let's experience a single day in a world without government regulations.

Food
You wake up in the morning, get dressed, and eat your breakfast. Well, there's no FDA, so your meat and eggs haven't been inspected. Your orange juice has ground-up bugs in it, because big corporations aren't going to bother with pesticides, but they aren't going to put the extra effort into proper organic farming, either. Your glass of water (which you also already bathed in, mind you) is teeming with bacteria, because the water company, fully privatized, is saving money that day by not changing out key filters as regularly as they would if the government were watching them. Before you even leave your home, you're feeling a bit sick to your stomach. Read Upton Sinclair's classic novel "The Jungle" to learn more about what food would be like without government regulations.

The Media
You decide to watch some television before you leave for work. Well, there's no bureaucratic FCC to monitor programming, so guess what you're waking up to? CNN's inside-look at child pornography, which is perfectly legal now that the government isn't regulating the media. Let's give CNN the benefit of the doubt here, though, and assume they're going to blotch out graphic content not suitable for all audiences. But then a "Girl's Gone Wild" commercial comes on during the commercial break, and seeing as how they paid for the spot and aren't regulated, they can show whatever they want during the commercial. If you haven't already vomited up that dangerous breakfast of yours, perhaps that will help it along. Japanese television is a great place to find out what the media might be like with lax regulation. Not that they mind it, but somehow I can't imagine ultra-conservative tea party people getting down with "who can get nude the fastest" game shows.

Transportation
Okay, it's finally time to get to work. You get into your car, but wait a tick! Where have your seat belts, hazard lights, turn signals, airbags, and bumpers gone? The car company chose not to include them, which made your car cheaper to produce. And hey, you got a decent discount on your car as a result, so that's a plus! Just make sure you're really careful driving to work, especially without the government regulating traffic with lights and stop signs. American cars didn't have seat belts or other vital safety precautions until the government started regulating it.

Aww shucks, you're stuck in a traffic jam! I wonder what's causing the delays? Oh, it looks like an unqualified pilot has crashed his small single-engine plane up ahead. Don't worry, he's fine. And apparently, it wasn't even his fault! The engine just randomly cut out mid-flight. I wonder what could have caused that? This couldn't be related to the fact that the company that produced the plane botched something during manufacturing, could it? Or maybe the aviator didn't perform maintenance because he wasn't mandated to do so? How many Americans would keep their cars in tip-top shape if they weren't mandated to have inspections? How many accidents would occur if they weren't mandated to have licenses? And how many would buy car insurance if they didn't have to?

Your Job
Finally, you've reached your place of employment, and you aren't dead. Good work! But wait a second, something isn't right here. Why is your work schedule so drastically different now? Why are you suddenly working a sixteen-hour work day six days a week, for a total of ninety-six hours of work? And hold the phone... no overtime pay! And another thing... who is this nine year-old girl pushing around the mail cart? Isn't she a bit too young to be... oh yeah! There's no government regulation! Yeesh, this is taking some getting used to, isn't it? Maybe you should head on down to the new "company store" to buy some aspirin.

Pharmaceuticals
You head down to the store to pick up some Advil or Aleve. But hey, what's with all of these new options? Hydrocodone? Oxycodone? Celecoxib? Morphine? Vicodin? And why are there teenagers buying them without prescriptions? Oh yeah, no government to regulate what's over-the-counter and what isn't. I sure hope those kids are careful, because without the FDA, how can we be certain of what's being put into those drugs?

Alchohol
You finally get done with your outrageously long shift. All you want to do is go home and have a drink, right? Good idea. You head home and open up your fridge, but your Brand X beer is nowhere to be seen. Some other beer is in its place. Oh well, you want a drink, right? You sit back on your couch and kick back a beer. The next thing you know, you're waking up in the hospital! The beer was made in some guy's basement and sold in the store, and you bought it to save money. It made you sick and they had to pump your stomach. Phew, that was a close call!

The Doctor
You wake up in the hospital bed. There's some guy in a suit standing next to you, shaking his head as he marks stuff on a clipboard. Before you have the chance to ask him what's going on, a bunch of doctors come into your room and start unplugging machines. You need to leave the hospital! Why? Because you have a pre-existing condition, and besides that, your health insurance doesn't cover your stomach getting pumped. There's no regulation, so guess what? You're stuck with a big fat $6,000 medical bill. But hey, it's probably a good thing you need to leave the hospital, now that you've had a chance to look around. There's a doctor "bleeding out" a patient to cure his cancer! There's a doctor treating someone with arthritis by giving them "radioactive water!" And why is everyone smoking, I thought this was a hospital? Well, no matter, you can head home now.

What a Day!
Well, now that you've experienced a day without any government regulations, what do you think of them? Still want to get rid of them? Are you still convinced we can do things without the big bad government regulating how industries treat customers? Do you still trust perfect strangers to go to great lengths to protect themselves and others without regulations? Hey, at least your taxes were lowered since the government doesn't need to pay for this, that, and the other thing now. I hope you enjoy your new regulation-free world. You asked for it!

Insane amount of useless parasitical gubment.

Cut it by 50% just to start.
Reduce taxes.

Revnant, what is the ALCB? Thanks,
Posted by: Al_in_Ottawa

Alberta Liquor Control Board.

I have worked both in public service and in private practice. I worked just as hard or harder in public service with lots of unpaid overtime but the difference was I was not sure my hard work and analysis would ever be used. The layers of bureaucracy is to protect your minister. That I was told, was my ultimately my primary function. Therefore no one gets the blame if anything went wrong. Thus, risk taking is discouraged and innovative thinking goes nowhere.

I would like to cut the policy shops primarily, since they lead the regulations/law making/monitoring functions of government when it should be the other way around IMHO (ie government ground up rather than top down).

And decrease the number of lawyers working in government (I like individual ones but as a group.... ) Please.

Bermused, you have a pro-statist bias and an overactive imagination.

Here's MY current reality. As the owner of a small, one person business, I retired recently. I sent the form to 'de-list' my business from the GST-HST system nearly two years ago. Yet I continue to get forms asking me to fill out and submit any GST owed.

No big deal, except that I cannot get ahold of a real live bureaucrat to straighten things out. Telephoning the 800# only gets one into an endless loop of menus with neither a solution to de-listing nor a human voice. You get a choice of either the web site or the loop.

So where the he** are all these highly paid bureaucrats and what are they doing with their time?

At least with a private company like Canadian Direct Insurance I can get someone to complain to, someone who returns my calls and the option to take my business elsewhere.

Bemused makes a number of good points, but this is the key one. According to the annual reports on the state of the Public Service submitted
to the Prime Minister by the Clerk of the Privy Council, in 2006 the Executive cohort (EX or management category) numbered 4639, representing 1.85% of a total Federal Public Service strength of 250,000. Three years later, in 2009, the total Public Service strength was 274,000, an increase of 9.6%. The Executive cohort, however, had grown to 6496, an increase of 40.0%. During this three-year period, then, the Executive cohort of the Public Service increased at a rate 4.16 times as fast as the Public Service writ large.

Sure, the PS has been growing, probably too quickly. But why has management been expanding three times as fast as the number of worker bees? The thing to watch will be how many managers get cut - because who's more non-productive, the non-productive PS drone (as so many people seem to deem them), or the far more highly-paid Executive whose 'management skills' are responsible for the non-productivity of the non-productive drones?

Bemused, you're forgetting that in a free market, the customer is king and the makers of bad products quickly wither and die. The maker of bug infested orange juice would soon go bankrupt.

Seatbelts, turn signals, airbags etc, were all introduced by car makers and then the government agencies said 'hey that's a good thing let's make it mandatory'. Don't believe me? Take a look at an '86 Mercedes S class which had the driver's air bag as standard. In 1990 the Dodge minivan was the first non-luxury vehicle to have standard driver's side airbags. That is when the US Congress made airbags mandatory.

There has to be some government, I agree, but right now there is way too much. It is time for the pendulum to swing the other way.

Gee Bemused....seems to me that society got along just fine without infinite regulation prior to the Lib/left infection of the 1960's. In fact, probably better given that people hadn't handed over their own common sense and responsibility for the government to "take care of".

$90K per year? That is most likely the mean average, not the median. Most unionized members of the public service make under $60K per year. All wages (unionized and non-represented) are posted on the Treasury Board website.