"This Black man in the white house"??? I just viewed a hate crime. Where are the arrests?

Love that Ayotollah Khoumeni poster held up by the guy in the Che T-shirt.

United Church of Canada ... the NDP at prayer.

“All united in brotherhood" ... once we kill all those who disagree with us.

I really love the rich, diverse set of opinions originating in that paradise known as Toronto!

What a beautiful rally, filled with beautiful people to! Bring your kids, it's fun for the whole family!

In the US the Jews could deal a blow to such blind hatred in a second if they would stop voting Democrat.

But for reasons which I have never fully understood, they overwhelmingly keep voting for and supporting a party that sympathizes with the Palestinians and their "freedom fighters".

For this reason I am not convinced that all of this hatred lobbied at the Jews really bothers them that much. We non-Jews think it is appalling, but I wonder if Jews living in North America are bothered by it.

Something does not add up.

Another peaceful rally by the religion of the perpetually aggrieved and angry. When are we going to say enough and put a stop to these hate fests?

Free speech?

Disgusting, and most disgusting was the delusional Lefty from the United Church in her bestest nice sweet soft "nanny" voice praising the event.

Is this woman deaf? Couldn't she hear the difference between her teddy bear "we are the world" speech, and the words of the ranting threatening Muslim maniacs when they took the microphone?

And of course the "Zionism" argument is a bit of a hoax anyway -- I think many Israelis abandoned a long time ago their Biblical aspirations to re-settle the entire tract of land occupied by the 12 Tribes that has been referred to as "Zion". They have yielded plenty of their historical inheritance already, and are only trying to hang on to the little bit that remains that is now recognized as the sovereign democratic State of Israel (which at its narrowest point I think is only 11 kilometres wide). So where's Israel's "Zionism" -- I think it's safe to say at this point that these Muslim fanatics are not "anti-Zionists", they're anti-Semites or at least Palestinian Islamo-fascists.

TJ, most people who do vote don't vote issues or candidates, they vote a straight party ticket. They vote Dem/Rep/CPC/Lib/NDP because that's who they've always voted for, that's who their family votes for, and has for generations. The average voter can't tell you what their own party or candidate's positions or platform is, much less the other guys.

These people honor Mohammed, a homosexual pedophile slave owner.

Just checking in to see whether the SDA trolls have yet offered up the old canard that being "anti-Zionist" is not the same as being "anti-Jewish". Not yet, but expect it by day's end.

As for the "Christian" twit at the beginning, isn't the United church the one that is losing more members than a vegetarian restaurant hosting an All Meat Day?!

I was baptized in the United Church. People wonder why I don't go anymore...

... this is why.

It's like 1937 all over again..".................

As for the "Christian" twit at the beginning, isn't the United church the one that is losing more members than a vegetarian restaurant hosting an All Meat Day?!
~Robert W. (Vancouver)

Wrong participle, correct would be 'has lost'.
People only go there to schmooze at the pot luck dinners since, oh, 30-35 years ago.
The UCC only exists for marriages and funerals now.

To create the UCC in the first place all the people from other denominations who wanted to join had to toss any contentious doctrines in the garbage can before joining.
As would happen with such a premise, they ended up with zero biblical doctrine.

It was inevitable.

Disgusting and she should be ashamed.

The United Church of Canada is a church in name only. Some may correct me but isn't the current moderator or the previous moderate an atheist. This church is no longer a Christian church, but has become a Marxist social club.

That should have read moderator, not moderate.

I am sure the wonderful, fair minded Canadians in the local HRC offices are right now investigating these morons for the hate crimes they have committed and will very quickly move to bring the full power of their office down on these spiteful, hateful, anti multicultural citizens.

And that sound you hear . . that's Layton applauding from the afterlife.

Mark Steyn said it best: "Those dead-again Christians in the United Church".

I was baptized in the United Church.
~The Phantom

Me too.
Infants don't have a choice.
Now I'm a Baptist, basically.
Baptists believe infant baptism was the first heresy to enter the church.
Just one of the doctrines that one has to jettison to become 'United'.

The UCC rep was a woman, no doubt she is a UCC 'pastor'.

1 TIMOTHY Chapter 2
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Just another doctrine the UCC insists should be ignored.

And that sound you hear . . that's Layton applauding from the afterlife.
~Fred

That isn't applause.
That's Jack trying to beat out the flames.

OZ
"People only go there to schmooze at the pot luck dinners since, oh, 30-35 years ago.
The UCC only exists for marriages and funerals now.

To create the UCC in the first place all the people from other denominations who wanted to join had to toss any contentious doctrines in the garbage can before joining.
As would happen with such a premise, they ended up with zero biblical doctrine."

Excellant sumation...bang on....

Oz:

Jews had circumcision.

The early Christians replaced that with baptism.

"In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead." Colossians 2:11-12

The book from which this passage is takes is fully entitled title is The epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Colossians.

Could you clarify one thing for me?

Do Baptists believe Paul the Apostle is a heretic?

These angry muslim demonstrations are happening more and more frequently in Toronto. Stay away from Yonge and Dundas that's my guess where the first "unexpected" bomb blast is going to happen. Probably on one of our busy holidays. That place gives me the creeps.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/08/toronto-islamic-supremacist-punches-non-muslim-in-the-face-no-charges-filed.html

Too many goat sodomizers, not enough flame throwers.

Race bating hate monger, I couldn't watch it all he sure knows how to froth up the anti-semitism doesn't he?

Infant baptism was neither taught nor practiced in the New Testament church. Oz is right: it became the first heresy in the later Christian church. Only believers are baptized in the New Testament.

I love the bit where the speaker states: "under Islamic law they will all be living as equal citizens (Jews, Christians and Muslims)". This guy must have a different Koran from the one I've read about.

Why are we importing and subsidizing the followers of that 'religion'. They are incompatible by definition with our much vaunted 'Canadian' values. Sharia is the outcome. Only bring in their true victims, like the Copts.

Don't worry, set you free, Baptists think all Catholics will go to Hell too, for infant baptism (among many other reasons) but I stick to the old faith nonetheless. You pays your penny, you takes your choice. They are accepted by me as being Christians, though I can't say the same for United Churchers.

Yep, larben:

Christ was circumcised at eight days old.

The early Christian Church replaced the practise by baptizing newborns, somewhere around eight days old.

There's a Biblical quotation from Paul to the Colossians that was confirmed by the Fathers of the Church, demonstrating how baptism replaced circumcision.

All I know is that circumcision would be pretty painful for somebody at about 12 years old, or about the time Christ first preached at the (Jewish) temple.

And, if a child died before he was baptized, where would his soul go?

The real heretics were the Anabaptists, who would not accept what Apostle Paul had written.

I guess some people's minds are made up, no matter what evidence. Let's not confuse them with the facts.

set you free at September 1, 2011 4:29

They are alike, they are the not same.
Their are plenty of passages that speak of baptism as a marriage ceremony.
Being a Jew is hereditary, Christian faith is not hereditary.
That's all I'll say on the subject since it is off topic.

LOL ...LOOK AT THE GUY IN THE RED SHIRT WHO IS THAT ON THE FRONT? NON OTHER THAN CHE GUEVERA !!! LOL.

WOW all of you are right on the money about the united church , they actually speak alittle muslim prayer and buhdist and so on and so forth we had a discution about this at a bible study for my church witch is the LCC not the lutheran version of the united church.

Any way the lutheran church get's totally genralized too how ever there is two synods one is the elcc (allow gay pastors,and gay marriges so on and so forth) and then there is my lutheran church were we are smaller but a) we beleive the entire bibile is the holy perfect inspired word of god from cover to cover .

unlike the united church witch has thrown out the baby with the bath water when it comes to the bible . A very simple and polite way of figuring out if you attend a fake or false church ask these two questions to the pastor in the church .

Do you beleive the bible is the word of god ? or do you beleive the bible contains the word of god?

If they answer that it contains the word of god i would turn around and leave. that's just me some people may think differently and may feel that if the pastor answers that it is the word of god turn around and leave but i beleive that they are wrong and being mislead.

If you say the bible contains the word of god then that allows you to tip toe through scripture and speak about what you want to , there is a verse timothy 3 verse something anyway it makes it very clear that everything in there is god breathed not some of it or part of it or three and three quarters of it ..ALL OF IT!!

QUE ALEX.....in 3...2...1..

Got dragged to the UCC when I was a kid - I even used to read the UCC monthly magazine that was sent to us by apparently anonymous donors.

After seeing how often they cozied up to the NDP, I lost interest completely.

Now I only go there for funerals.

I always thought the UCC was some kind of Christian church. Then one day this girl I worked with was getting marriage counselling there (her father made them go, but I don't know if he knew the rest of this story). She told me the two partner-pastors were counselling them together, but they were going through a divorce themselves, and post divorce they intended to remain as the pastors of the church. That was just too wacky. Then I asked my father about the UCC and he just made a snorting sound. I've never met another person associated with them in my life.

"United Church of Canada ... the NDP at prayer."

LMAO, set you free, that's a Keeper! :-)

most "kristian" religious types in the world are lefties, and I are a conservative, thusly none of that religious shiite for me....I'ma devout athiest, and proud of it

as to the film clip, one batch of semites bashing the jewish semites, so what's NEW (or would that be OK in here:-)))

GYM
but wouldn't that be Shemp beating up on Moe, doesn't fit the stooge's gag?

why is it ok as long as they're always picking on Shemp?

When Shemp fights back they waste no time calling him a Moe.

and where is Larry, looks like he's joined the UCC.

setyoufree, ummm, I've never addressed to a troll here at sda before;
You have nothing to add to this post that I can tell, but even more stupidity and ignorance. I've noticed you do that allot here and for some reason even seem to be respected, not my blog, my 2 cents.

The Anabaptists were scriptural. Luther and Calvin kept the RC heresy of infant baptism. Nowhere in the New Testament is there a record of an infant being baptized. Jesus said "Let the children come to Me for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven" and He touched them. However, He did not baptize them. Neither did any of the disciples, nor did they teach it.

One can compare circumcision with baptism in this sense: when a Jewish boy is circumcised, this signifies that he has become a member of the Hebrew nation. In the same way, when a believer is baptized this signifies that he has become a member of the church of Christ. Only believers are baptized in the New Testament.

Baptism also means submersion as when Paul speaks of "being buried with Him in baptism." Obviously, infants are not baptized, they are merely sprinkled. That's not much of a "burial."

Infants in the Church are baptized when they are submerged in water ... three times.

That's the way it was done from Day 1 for the vast majority of Christians, who baptized their children at a young age, much as Jews circumcized their male children at a young age.

Everything else is a denial.

Christianity and Christian practices started about 1500 years before Martin Luther came around and much of its understandings ... including the contents of the Bible ... were completed early in the history of the Church.

The cult known as the United Church and much of the denominations that followed Luther would be unrecognizable to the early Fathers of the Church and its adherents.

Although there are no direct examples of infants being baptized in the Bible, there are numerous indirect references.

"Jesus said, 'Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.'" Matthew 19:14 (Note: Christ clearly says that baptism is necessary for salvation. "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" Mark 16:16).

"People were also bringing babies to Jesus for him to place his hands on them. When the disciples saw this, they rebuked them. But Jesus called the children to him and said, 'Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.'" Luke 18:15-17 (Note: Here the people bring their infants to the Christ in the hope that He will bless them. A blessing is understood by the Church to mean an impartation of grace. Thus, the reception of grace is not dependent on an "age of reason".)

"Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” Acts 2:38-39

"When she and the members of her household were baptized, she invited us to her home. 'If you consider me a believer in the Lord,' she said, 'come and stay at my house.' And she persuaded us." Acts 16:15

"At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his household were baptized." Acts 16:33

Could any of the right wing Al Sharptons enlighten me as to why this is "antisemitism"?

"The promise is for you and your children." Indeed, anyone who believes in the Lord Jesus Christ will receive forgiveness of sins, even children who believe in Him. That makes sense. The children of the Philippian jailer also believed and were baptized.(Acts 16:34) There is no mention of infants in his household.

It does not matter what the early church practiced, they were wrong when they baptized their newborn infants because the Bible does not teach that they should be baptized. The early church made many errors which had to be corrected by Paul in his letters. They may not have gotten around to baptizing their infants yet or else he would have had to correct them there as well.

"Whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved." Jesus said: "Go into all the world and make disciples and baptize them ..." Always, in scripture, only believers are baptized. Only those churches that practice believers' baptism are following biblical teaching. Those that baptize infants have no scriptural basis for their practice.

set you free

The post title is, Those Moderate Muslims! It seems to be about vapid anti-Semitic dogma practised openly and shamelessly by some U.C.C. supported left-wing whacko's.

I think your looking for, Those Moderate Catholics!
as a defender of their false Christian teachings and shameless Popery.

give me a few months and maybe I can write one up, for you.

Posted by: Kroket at September 1, 2011 9:50 PM

So, ‘children' cannot include ‘infants?'

OK.

Posted by: Blanks at September 1, 2011 10:02 PM

The Church of Rome represents only a small part of traditional Christianity.

The Pope is the Bishop of Rome and does not speak on behalf of all Christians. Pope means Father.

For example, Pope Shenouda III of Alexandria, Egypt is the successor of the See established by Apostle Mark.

There are various other Orthodox Christian jurisdictions which consider the Bishop of Rome just that, the Bishop of a geographic area.

Curiously, the early Protestant movement broke away from the Roman jurisdiction, while no other similar protest movements have broken away from Orthodox Christianity.

Then, it was everybody for themselves and others invented religions that in no way resembled Christianity.

That included the United Church, which has evolved into a political movement cloaked as a religion, much as the basic nature of Islam.

Apparently, that's why this UCC person felt so comfortable in the environment shown in the video.

No poin commenting on the hatefest. However, as for infant baptism, Peter explained what happens at baptism when he said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38). But he did not restrict this teaching to adults. He added, "For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him" (2:39). We also read: "Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name" (Acts 22:16). These commands are universal, not restricted to adults. Further, these commands make clear the necessary connection between baptism and salvation, a connection explicitly stated in 1 Peter 3:21: "Baptism . . . now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

The operating principle is faith. Children can believe, infants i.e. newborn babies, cannot believe and don't need to be baptized because baptism follows repentance and faith. "Repent and be baptized." Mt. 3:11. That's why infant baptism is meaningless, even worse, it gives parents a false sense of security because they often believe that their infant is saved by baptism. We are not saved by baptism, we are saved by grace through faith. Eph. 2:8,9.

Blanks

You should be congratulated. Your post is an example of "those moderate anti-catolics."
BTW "this shameless Popery" gave my country freedom from atheist Soviet Union, on the other hand the atheists (aka communists) gave it Katyn and "socialism."
And "the true Christian teaching" (whatever it is) showed us how to do witch hunts.
YAY!!

It always amazes me the depth and insight posters here at SDA bring to the discussion.

When the topic is religion..... the replies offer a level of knowledge and understanding of both atheist and spiritual beliefs unrivaled in my internet travels.

Thank-you.

On God I do not know...... But the teachings of Jesus and Christianity I have no doubt. The simple rules of the ten commandments and a simpler do unto others ....(you all know the rest) make, to me, the foundation of a better life for all.

That the countries of the western world are largely shaped by these teachings gives me both hope and fear.

If somehow, the vile hatred that the speakers in the clip gain hold on power the world would most surly enter a dark and deathly time.

So.... believe in whatever. But I have learned a few things in my life.... one, not all religions are equal. Some are better.

And if you don't believe or are unsure the basic teachings of christianity are still a better template than Islam.

disclaimer... I have overcome an upbringing where "we are all the same on the inside" and where "all religions are the same".

No we are not. Some people are better than others. And I am better than all the speakers in the clip. And if it came to me or them.... I would not feel remorse. I would give thanks for riding that hate for my children

Posted by: Kroket at September 1, 2011 10:48 PM

If a person died before they were baptized (accepted into the body of Christ), where would their soul go?

Luke 18:15-17

"People were also bringing babies to Jesus for him to place his hands on them. When the disciples saw this, they rebuked them. But Jesus called the children to him and said, 'Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.'"

Notice, kroket, people were bringing their babies. The disciples rebuked them, but Jesus called the children (babies) to him.

Not sure what part of that is not understandable.

These biblical accounts were during the times of early conversions.

Responsible parents of future generations understood their yet unborn babies would be baptized as soon as possible after birth, since baptism served the same purpose as circumcision. Christianity was for all nations, not just the Jewish nation.

That view of infant baptism contrasted to those who promoted another interpretation based on perceived lack of literal proof. Apparently, this was done for political reasons in which they could distinguish themselves from the top-down style favoured by the Bishop of Rome.

In this case, different is not correct.

Alex...ALEX...Where Are You???
HELLO>>>>>>>>

Can't we all just agree that Karin Brothers is an appalling twit?

Gym - The belief that human nature can be made perfect if it will master its passions by reason, is a theory that taints all philosophy derived from the sentimentalities of Jean Jacques Rousseau.
Isn't this fun?

"BTW "this shameless Popery" gave my country freedom from atheist Soviet Union,.."

Riiight, I remember that, and then the Pope used his head to smash down the Berlin Wall and that's how his Homo fish hat was flattened.
Like it was yesterday.
sounds like a Catholic jihad to me. There aren't enough hours in the day to argue or begin to debate the kind of ignorance set you free is spouting off, just isn't and your way off topic anyway, flaming the thread.
But that's ok for some of the special ones likes you.
What has anything your saying got to do with the original post? zip

I've dumped my BS, now I have to run.
trolls

Homo fish hat?

Good comeback.

Boy, did this thread ever deteriorate from the topic of the speakers calling for the demise of Israel and the subjection of all other faiths to Islam.

If these jackholes were pastors from Florida, would people be all over this?

Anytime someone declares Israel to be a cancer or holds up a picture of the late pedophile Ayatollah Khomeini, hold that jackhole to account. Be a bulldog about it. Make them explain to everyone around them how their outrageous claims can be true. For far too long people have let these things slide. Declare Quebec a cancer and see how far that gets you.

"I think your looking for, Those Moderate Catholics!
as a defender of their false Christian teachings and shameless Popery."

What's wrong with pot pourri?

This is the twenty-first century. We should no longer believe the Vatican is out to get us and we actually read things before we speak:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02258b.htm

AAAAAAleeeeeexxx!!!

Where are you bud? Christians getting kicked in the noids by other Christian mostly white people, common man it's your day, what you die or something?

This is the best chance you have ever had on SDA to convert Christians to atheism and you decide to go get a job or something. I’m deeply disappointed.

The United Church of Canada is United to the prince of this dark world - she switched alliances.

Imagine if that were a group protesting gays, lesbians,or the transgendered;not simply/just Jews? Every MSM outlet would've been all over it.

"The United Church of Canada is United to the prince of this dark world - she switched alliances."
~Lucky Lori

Here is how disconnected from Christianity the United church of Canada is:

http://tinyurl.com/3pe4k4w

SAMPLE
The article centred on Reverend Gretta Vosper, an avowed atheist and minister in Toronto, who wrote a popular book about her disbelief a few years ago called With Or Without God.

Rev. Vosper, who would be considered a heretic in any other denomination and likely dumped out on her ear, is tolerated in some quarters of the United Church, even to the point of enthusiasm.

“I celebrate Gretta and others like her who cause us to think more deeply about the nature of our faith,” said Ms. Tindal, the church’s Moderator.

“One of the things we’re seeing is a greater tolerance for paradox. What Gretta has done has ignited a fresh conversation and invigorated the discussion. This is in the DNA of our Church: to invite this open, deep broad conversation to be the body of Christ.

“Besides, you can’t talk about post-theism without talking about God,” she explained, pointing out the positive side of having a minister who is an atheist.
[SNIP]...
“I also don’t think there’s any point about worrying that next year there will fewer numbers. We see all sorts of churches in decline but we also see many people in society who now say they have no religion. Who knows where they will end up.”

Who knows where they will end up?
Gee, that's a real poser.
Oh pick me.(*waives hand*)
I know the answer to that one!
REVELATION Chapter 20:15

Krocket i must say you are correct in saying that salvation is through grace and that is what martin luther stood for , please the lefty liberal lutheran church is much much bigger than the origional lutheran church witch is the LCC that is the synod that i belong to if you do your research you would see just how vastly different the lutheran churches are from one another and how and why we the little lutheran church get lumped in with the massive liberal lutheran church . but baptism , communion , they are part of the way's that god uses to reassure us ..kinda i mean it is kinda the way's he show's us he give us his grace or show's us his grace ..i think .. i know in our bible studies we have spoken about this and how interchangable they were in romans just as an example we spoke about , and paul did say that we do not have to circumise , but he ask's us to be baptised , but if your not baptised you can still be saved through grace and jesus ...i am the way the truth and the life no one come to the father except through me.
as well he said all who beleive and are baptised , but that doesn't mean that if your not baptised that cannot be saved , just like if you are not a beleiver but were baptised you are saved right it sounds silly i know athiest's who were baptized but hate jesus and when they die if they have those same feeling's they will burn in hell ....it is not baptism that saves you it is one motion of salvation of washing the judgement away from us but i don't think it is the salvation . Anyway very interesting and thank you guy's .

Thanks Paul. I attend a Lutheran church and play the organ there. I do, however disagree with their teaching on infant baptism and communion. But that's OK. Every church has its idiosyncracies.

Set you free: I did not raise the question as to where dying infants go, whether they are baptized or not. Obviously it makes no difference. Since they cannot even understand faith etc. God will not hold them accountable. Jesus said, "Let them come to Me." So they go to heaven, where He is. No problem.

My issue with you and Blanks is that you try to justify infant baptism on the basis of Acts 3:39 "For the promise is to you and your children ..." Just so. Peter's point is that the promise of salvation by faith applies to all who will believe, to adults and also to children when they believe, and then they should be baptized, not before. Baptizing people before they believe is putting the cart before the horse. Baptism symbolizes the new birth, new life, the washing away of our sins through the blood of Jesus, because He took the punishment for our sins upon Himself.

I don't want to incur Kate's wrath by prolonging this enjoyable but OT topic so I will leave it that. If you want to discuss it further with me I'll give you my email address and I'll be happy to continue.

Sorry: by OT topic I mean off topic topic.

krocket:

Thanks for the great, mostly respectful debate.

The important thing, for me, is to question everything anybody tells you ... so when it comes time to make a decision, you make the one that works for you.

And, to take into consideration all historical context, to respect the struggles and decisions that millions of well-meaning people went through over the past 2000 years, to understand how they came to those decisions and whether the effects of those decisions were positive or negative.

Human beings tend to believe history started the moment they were born and that they are somehow wiser than their parents and by extension all traditional wisdom is suspect.

I'll just leave it at that and once again, thanks for the respectful debate.

I don't think labelling every difference of practice or opinion as "heresy" is all that respectful, setters. Show me where in the Nicene Creed it says that it has be done your way, and I'll take you seriously. Otherwise I think you ought to recognize that the church has always been diverse, and outside of the core beliefs of the Creed, each does what it judges right in the light of its own tradition and its reading of Scripture. "Heretic" is not a synonym for "not my church".

The only thing that matters to me is what the Bible says. It, after all, is the Word of God. So, with all due respect, Creeds, articles of faith, church history, interesting and educational as they may be, they do not have any authority for me, especially if they differ from what the Bible says. I see it as a difference between Bible doctrine and church doctrine. They are not matters of life and death and I do respect believers of other Bible believing churches.
I also appreciate debates that are held respectfully as SYF usually is. Let that be my final word on the subject.

ebt:

Apparently, 1609 years of reasoned and consistent practise by not only all branches of Apostolic Christianity (Rome and Orthodoxy), but of contemporaries Luther and Calvin were not evidence enough.

Infant baptism, a more inclusive practise in which both male and female children receive grace ... as opposed to circumcision (males only), continue to withstand the test of time and has continued for more than two millenia.

It's been less than 400 years for those who needed to draw a distinction from Rome and in doing so, became a living example of the pot calling the kettle a heretic.

I did not sense the same level of hostility to other Popes in Apostolic Christianity, such as Shenouda III of Alexandria, Egypt.

In fact, I'll bet they did not even know there were are many other Popes in the world today.

ebt:

It just came to me and now the logic makes perfect sense.

Since 2000 years of practise had not been written into the New Testament, it obviously never happened.

Know why that is? Because the New Testament chronicles that specific time frame in which God was introduced and accepted by the rest of the world, rather than being wisdom for exclusive use by the Chosen People.

Therefore, those who were baptized ... at the time of writing ... were of all ages, ranging from adults to infants. It was a time when people of all nations first heard and accepted the word.

Curiously, though, other generations followed and those who called themselves Christian had their children baptized shortly after birth. That's a historical fact.

To me, that clearly demonstrates the folly of literal interpretation, since there were no updates once the books of the Bible were compiled at the Ecumenical Councils.

Oh, yeah. Since the Ecumenical Councils were not mentioned in the New Testament, it must follow to some that they were never held, either.

As a Canadian living in USA for the last 20 years, I have noticed that virtually all my Canadian friends, including my family who still lives in several of the provinces, are all doggedly anti-Israel, (and mostly anti-USA, but that has always been true).

When I tell them that USA is by far the largest donator to the Palestinians, they don't believe it.

What is in the water up there?

set you free, never quits

Infant baptism is thee biggest accepted heresy in Christendom.

next to, having a Pope (call no man father) as the head of a central Church, not even to mention the heretical bachelor priesthood,the babble isn't even worth the effort to condemn and has nothing to do with the post, near as I can tell.

funny how the Catholic guy turned a post about Muslims into a preachathon of intolerance and hate toward those are not of this "universally accepted" opinion of Popery. There was no Pope or Catholic Church until after Constantine. Better some education to go with your history, ignorant toad.

Here's a clue for you, blanks.

My priest is married.

My apologies to Kate and the rest of SDA's bloggers for starting this off topic argument in the first place.
I'll be more careful hence forth.

I'm not religious but do see the societal merits in certain religions. As far as infant baptism, beyond theology, I can appreciate the idea of community acceptance and official/ ceremonial “welcome to the club party” that it offers newborns and their parents in a dignified and organized manner.

"There was no Pope or Catholic Church until after Constantine. Better some education to go with your history, ignorant toad." - Blanks

There certainly was a Catholic Church. Catholic means universal. There was a Bishop of Rome with significant regional influence although the earliest pope was in Alexandria where a current pope still resides. Don't get hung up on nomenclature.