April 20, 2011

The Decline And Fall Of The American Empire

It's time the poor started paying their fair share.

That ain't all - Government Cash Handouts Now Top Tax Revenues

Posted by Kate at April 20, 2011 5:48 PM

Or, how to lock up a build in re-election majority for Dear Leader.

Posted by: trappedintrudeaupia at April 20, 2011 5:58 PM

Population numbers for each group would be interesting to know as well. Would explain who get's voted in.

Posted by: anonymous at April 20, 2011 6:21 PM

Seriously, I get depressed when I survey the American economic situation, for until the past couple years I saw the US as a fallback if things got unbearable in Canuckistan. It seems every nation on earth is plagued by the state.

Posted by: Mark at April 20, 2011 6:45 PM

I wonder how the splits look in a socialist state like Britain or Fwance?

Posted by: cal2 at April 20, 2011 6:54 PM

And you wonder how to get a majority of voters to get more from the rich? There needs to be a little more " he who pays the piper calls the tune" in the system. A radical idea: a flat tax.

Posted by: Texas-Canuck at April 20, 2011 7:00 PM

I am absolutely exasperated and perambulated that politicians can happily spend more than the government receives; it just beggars the imagination - or is that beggars the begaars?

Posted by: Robert of Ottawa at April 20, 2011 7:07 PM

No Robert, it buggers the taxpayer.

Posted by: atric at April 20, 2011 7:09 PM

The other day over at Drudge, I read that some 49% of American households do not pay any tax, and then listening to the Ed Schultz show, he and his co-horts are pushing the "tax the rich" agenda. That is anyone making over $250,000. In addition they figure that the top 400 rich people should be taxed more, as if that will cure their situation. The US is broke and they will lose everything if they don't wake up.

The markets are in make believe mode as far as I'm concerned.

Posted by: GaryinWpg at April 20, 2011 7:14 PM

Just like the Roman Empire, America will collapse in a pathetic heap if they continue down the road they have chosen. Canada will 'go south' way faster than the USA if the Troika steals power May 3rd. We do not have the magnificent American Constitution to help fight our slavers (Troika), we have a 'scrap of paper' written by a slaver for the slave runners/owners (Turdo). If honest, freedom loving Canadian citizens are not afraid, they are fools too, IMO.

Posted by: Jema 54 at April 20, 2011 7:23 PM

A bit of balance might look like this:

Every citizen gets a vote. Each citizen has an average contribution to the state, a simple calculation on the previous years' haul. Let's call it 'X'.

Each citizen that contributes two times X shall receive an extra ballot equal to a regular ballot. This balances the forces now shamelessly exploited by our political elites for their own nefarious benefit.

And it is an incentive to achieve.

And as an added bonus, it will balance the federation between more and less productive regions.

A built in elected senate if you will.

Win win and win!

Posted by: trappedintrudeaupia at April 20, 2011 7:24 PM

I think it's more accurate to say that 49% don't pay any federal income tax. Many of them still pay state, sales, gasoline, booze, cigarette, etc. taxes.

Does anyone know what the numbers look like for Canada?

Posted by: Kathryn at April 20, 2011 7:31 PM

Does anyone have the equivalent figures for Canada?

Posted by: Patrick B at April 20, 2011 7:31 PM

Obamas paid $453,770 in federal income taxes in 2010 on $1.7 million.

Seeing as he is mainly on welfare except for the odd burger shouldn't he be voluntarily pay more tax?
Maybe he should dump his under water mortgage to make ends meet.

Posted by: Speedy at April 20, 2011 7:35 PM

[quote]Obamas paid $453,770 in federal income taxes in 2010 on $1.7 million.[/quote] speedy

NO Obama didn't pay taxes.. like all cival servants the taxes were paid by the taxpayers..

It is an in/out transaction... from the taxpayers to the taxpayers. The money doesn't exist

Fake taxes & fake Money to make civil servants seem like they share the burden. The Taxpayer pays all the benifits/taxes/pension.. plus the take home pay.

Posted by: Phillip G. Shaw at April 20, 2011 8:11 PM

Phillip Most of his income is book sales. His 400,000 salary plus 50,000 in expenses fits your description though. Expenses?

Posted by: Speedy at April 20, 2011 8:43 PM

re: trappedintrudeaupia at April 20, 2011 7:24 PM
re: your idea of extra votes. I think all we really need is for everyone of us to just vote at all. we are what they call the silent MAJORITY.

Posted by: Russ Graham at April 20, 2011 8:51 PM

That silent majority in the states is the Tea Party, if we are to remain true to the Canadian Image, the silent majority in canada would be the hard working Beer Party, opposing the eletist Wine Party or is that Whine?

Posted by: DennisK at April 20, 2011 10:02 PM

Regardless of these facts, the Republicans will allow the Democrats to waltz the country off the cliff.

Posted by: small c conservative at April 20, 2011 10:27 PM

An outspoken chartered account, suitably lubricated, declared a while back that taxing the rich was a futile exercise not because, they have accountants find loopholes, but simply because they have too little income and assets.
Basically, the idea is that although a few entities are stupidly rich they are so few in number that they control a very tiny portion of the income and assets of the nation.
Back in the 70's, it was calculated that if the wealth of everyone with a net worth of $100,000 had everything over that $100,000 confiscated and distributed to everybody else....Joe 6-pick would get the price of a pack of cigarettes...assuming that this "tax" could be collected and distributed at no cost.
That last point, is important, because based upon the usual conditions of the cost of civil service...the practical result would be everybody would get taxed....the net result of the "wealth distribution" would be a negative.
The reason why the middle class has historically paid the major portion of taxes is simply because the middle class has most of the income and most of the wealth.
IOW how many Joe 6-packs, owning their home and a car, does it take to match the net worth of a millionaire? Perhaps 5 less...even considering their mortgages.
To rebut the inevitable trolls...what is the current official poverty line?

Posted by: sasquatch at April 20, 2011 10:37 PM

I smell a federal GST...

Posted by: Jay Currie at April 20, 2011 10:55 PM

Kate: "It's time the poor started paying their fair share."

I'd say they already are, when you consider that the bottom 50% own about 2.5% of the nation's wealth, while the top 1% own over 33%.

Other fun facts about income and wealth:

- Average CEO salaries have increased about 300% since the early 90s; average production workers' pay, about 4%.

- Real average earnings, in terms of hourly wage adjusted for inflation, have not increased in 50 years.

- The effective federal tax rate of the top 1% has dropped about 10% since the 1960s; the top 0.1%, about 25%; the top 0.01%, about 35%. The middle quintile? No change.

- Normalized to 1979, the top 1% have seen their share of America's income more than double. The bottom 90% have seen their portion actually shrink.

- In parallel with the top marginal tax rate, the rate on wealth in the top estate tax bracket has dropped by about 30 percentage points since the mid-70s.


The limitation of looking only at percentage of federal income tax by income bracket is that it looks only at income while ignoring wealth, and considers only what different earners contribute in taxes while ignoring the size of the pools of money that those taxes are drawn from. In other words, the reason the bottom 50% pay so little in taxes is because they now make relatively so little.

And let's not forget that a good number of regular SDA readers fall in that "bottom 50%" bracket. I wonder how many of them think they pay too little in taxes.

"That ain't all - Government Cash Handouts Now Top Tax Revenues."

Yes, on account of the Bush-era tax cuts, and their recent extension.

Posted by: Davenport at April 20, 2011 10:56 PM

As requested...

Posted by: at April 20, 2011 11:24 PM

Yes Davenport ole couch and if you burned the walls of your house you would have a fire in the furnace...Until you ran out of walls and then realized you don't have a fire or a place to shelter from the wind.

Posted by: Joe at April 20, 2011 11:40 PM

If I were teaching a class of smart 7th graders how to lie with statistics I'd use the Heritage Foundation's Budget Chart Book. [...] The most important deception here is the phrase "U.S. tax system."* The federal income tax is, in fact, progressive. But it's by no means the entire U.S. tax system. There are also federal payroll taxes (regressive) and state taxes on income (generally flat), property taxes (generally flat) and sales (regressive). When all of that is added together, the system as a whole is only slightly progressive, and in fact is essentially flat from the middle quintile upwards. Here's a useful chart from Citizens for Tax Justice which includes all taxes:

Posted by: dizzy at April 20, 2011 11:58 PM

I had the first round of charts wrong and fixed them now. I don't have a better data source but if anyone can get one let me know.

Posted by: at April 21, 2011 12:09 AM

This is how you subdue a free people. Get them addicted to other peoples money & labor. A slave state except for the mob & Aristocracy. Political & Academic.
The rest become bums where nothing is produced because the Law will steal it from you. Keeps any talent from rising while keeping entitlements in the Top 10% without competition.
1969 will be historically the hight of the American experiencing. The Moon Landing. It been down hill since "The Great Society" by Johnson.

Posted by: Revnant Dream at April 21, 2011 12:49 AM

If my calculations are right roughly 25% of the Canadian Population (i.e. based on 33,000,000 people and ~24,000,000 paying > $0 in taxes).

Posted by: at April 21, 2011 12:55 AM

But again, dizzy, you're talking percentages, not ACTUAL DOLLARS. You can play the same game with marginal rates if you want?

Posted by: jcl at April 21, 2011 8:36 AM