Est ce qu'ils parlent l'Anglais?

Paul Krugman admits that non-existent death panel rationing will save lots of money.

No, no, no.

Obamacare has death panels, but they are not called "Death Panels."

Rationing care is called "cost containment."

How can we pay for abortions when we're spending so much money keeping elderly people alive who will also bankrupt Social Security and Medicare? Besides, the Demon Rats no longer need the votes of the old people because they have the Hispanic votes which they can replicate at will, just like printing money.

That's why Sarah Palin's pants are on fire.

Hmmm...checked out the list of 'lies'...

I wonder what passed for 'truth' in the LA Times.

The only thing I can't figure out is which one of these traits of the Left is most prevalent:
- Denial
- Ignorance
- Lies

In 1984, when Poland was controlled and owned by the Soviet Union, I met a student in Warsaw who told me why his hand was small and withered. He had spilled boiling soup on his arm as a child and his Mom and Dad took him to the 'hospital' for 'free' soviet health care; there were no doctors to take care of patients. The doctors worked for hard currency (Am dollars, pounds, Swiss francs etc); he was left untreated for 3 weeks and then he went home with a bandage. He had 3rd degree burns so his arm never healed. That was the situation when I was there, free health care but nobody to deliver the 'free' health care. Death Panels are just the tip of the iceberg! Death via neglect is still death.

Isn't Quebec looking at their doctors taking kick backs? You pay a little cashola and the waiting line magically disappears.

The kind, benevolent Soviet state, worshipped by Trudeau?

I like how Glen Beck puts it: "it will be a matter of how many potatoes you bring to the table" if you get treatment or not. That's about it...

this great free kanadian health care just cost a friend of mine about $300K!!!

This on top of the investigation into under the table direct cash payments to jump the line. No economist would be surprised by this. Centrally planned economies, such as the health care economy in Canada always produce three things: shortages, waiting lists and black markets.

Robert, that is a tough question, but I would have to pick number 3.

KVB, exactly. Why else his affair with Cuba and China and ramming the charter down our throats. At our oldest daughters grade 12 graduation, a provincial court judge was the speaker and he said the charter was nothing but a pension plan for lawyers.

I don't know why anyone would deny the existence of "death panels". Health care IS rationed in Canada,and someone has to make the decision to deny HC to a patient.

Whether you call them death panels or anything else,the result is still the same.

15 years ago on a CTV News story on health care rationing, then VGH surgeon Dr.Brian Day,who many dismiss as an "activist",stated that every surgeon in B.C had patients die while on their wait list.

Surgeons at that time were rationed operating room time to about six hours a week. I'd call that a life and death decision made by SOMEONE,but maybe not a "panel". I've since been told the same thing by other surgeons and GP's.

It's the proverbial "elephant" no one in the health care system wants to talk about.

Palin made the mistake of not using "newspeak", and shocked the hell out of the delicate sensibilities of the progressives.

there. fixed.

The only thing I can't figure out is which one of these traits of the Right is most prevalent:
- Denial
- Ignorance
- Lies
Posted by: Robert W. (Vancouver) at December 4, 2010 1:20 AM

they ALL do it and the sooner right wing hero worshippers realize that the sooner we can work together to get Canuckistan back on track.

but like hezbollah and hamas, you *cannot* bring yourself to work with the 'enemy'.

But dear 'beagle', in this thread we're talking about the absolute corruption of mainstream media outlets - you know, the darlings you hold in high esteem?! And almost all of these outlets sit firmly on the left & far left side of the political spectrum, like you do. Your whitewash of "they ALL do it" doesn't cut it, nor does it excuse the unethical, unprofessional behaviour of your comrades in arms.

A family friend (once a nurse who worked for the system but then was laid off to make room for more bureaucrats) had a rare form of cancer. The treatment was available in the US but not in Canada. In fact, the doctors said her cancer was not covered by the system. She has since passed away.
There, in a nutshell, is your death panel. Sarah Palin should be given a crown for her complete rightness.

The whole system is rationed. Tests,specialists, hospitals everything. When the province sets it's budget the unions figure out what percentage is 'theirs'. This is usually a high percentage of the operating budget that has already been set. From that day on the director has to make it work which means things don't get done.
When a union grasscutter gets 25 bucks an hour and a painter 50 it doesn't take long to eat a budget. Add in overtime to cover for people that don't show up and it is a mess.

Rationed? Absolutely!
The venal hypocrisy is there for ALL to see.
Here on the Sunshine Coast (B.C.) one surgeon (the only surgeon) is doing all the colonoscopies; there's a ONE YEAR backlog.
Meanwhile, the Health Ministry is spending big bucks on an advertising campaign promoting coleorectal cancer screening.
Can we all say "two faced"?
http://www.bccancer.bc.ca/ABCCA/NewsCentre/2009/coloncheck.htm
"...It is estimated that there will be more than 2,900 new diagnoses of colorectal cancer in the province this year, and that over 1,200 British Columbians will die of the disease in the same time period.

That's damn near 50%...for a disease that's supposed to have a cure rate in the 90% range!!!! http://coloncancer.about.com/od/cancerstatistics/a/AU_Survival_CC.htm

Sarah's problem is she is Right and right, that's a double whammy in the La La Land of the Left.

And right you are, LizJ!

But at least our system is 'fair'.

Our system kills people fairly, fairly often, fairly soon and fairly distributed.

One of the best descriptions of the hypocrisy of Julian Assange and his motivations I've seen.

http://tinyurl.com/2dlhnep

Sorry about the errant post. I tried about four times to post on the tips thread and I think I got lost or something. I don't know. Strange.

At least Sarah Palin stated some of the problems with socialized medicine directly whereas in Canada people seem to have gotten used to living with second rate health care.

The type of health care you get depends very much on where you live; if you live in Vancouver you have direct access to the best hospitals in the province and I've gotten 2 patients of mine bypass surgery by telling them to take a brisk walk and then go into St. Pauls hospital emergency. Both were seen in minutes and admitted whereas they'd given up on waiting in the local ER. Where I work now the local health authority has decided that hospitals shouldn't cover all medical specialties but rather each hospital will cover only some of the specialties. This results in patients traveling hundreds of miles in an ambulance in blizzards to get the care they need.

When it comes to cancer treatments, I have mixed feelings about some of the new treatments. They are very expensive and, in most cases, are equivalent to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. When someone has widely metastatic cancer and multi-organ failure, there is a small chance they might survive but 99.9% of the time they end up dying. Giving them a few extra weeks of life might be worth it to them, but then they should pay for it themselves.

The Canadian government has painted itself into a corner with the idiotic idea that it can meet unlimited medical needs on a finite budget. It is possible to assign a worth to human life but the Canadian system assumes that the worth of a child molester in jail with cancer is worth the same as that of someone who's worked and paid taxes their whole life who also happens to get cancer.

loki -

Just to clarify, Sarah Palin was referring to panels that will decide when Medicare will pay for things that are quite routine, such as hip replacements, which casual empiricism suggests, are almost always successful. But even if they failed frequently, the government should pay: they force seniors into Medicare, so that the majority have no realistic option.

The cost escalation the idiots who wrote Obama's plan worry about may well disappear, or fall to a reasonable rate of growth, if the government got completely out of trying to manage the system, rather than finance it. For instance, the government acts as cartel manager, by limiting residencies in specialties, ultimately reducing the population of specialists, and making impossible a supply side response to cost growth.

duffman @6:05 - "But at least out system is 'fair'. Our system kills people fairly, fairly often, fairly soon and fairly distributed."

Unless you're a well-connected politician or something. The trick in a socialist system is always to try to be a member of the nomenklatura.

Based on several anecdotes I've come across, would I be right in thinking that the healthcare system in Quebec is especiallement lousy?

A friend was diagnosed with suspected lung cancer in July. After tests by a respirologist weeks later, he eventually saw the thoracic surgeon. He said he will not operate without the patient's heart ok, no deaths on his operating table. Now the friend has been to see a cardiologist after a MIBI test. Yes he has coronary heart disease and now awaits an angiogram. 5 months after first diagnosis. I don't think that they want to operate, the death panel in operation.

What many people fail to realise is that as there are no limitless supplies of anything. All goods and services are rationed. In most cases the price of the goods are the rationing factor. In Canada because health care is "free" another form of rationing is needed. We call this the bureaucrat.

Those that get more out of the system than they put in are willing to put up with this.

The rest of us greedy bastards who pay a fortune for poor access are starting to question it.

It is possible to assign a worth to human life...

So, if someone paid the requisite "worth" of your life, they could hunt you for sport?