OK, looks like they're going to need a lot more oil to asphalt all those gravel roads then. ...or can milk be used?

There may be a dustup over this.

mike

This is a bunch of huffing over nothing..agriculture, rural regions, and gravel roads are NOT the focus of this new legislature. These new regulations are aimed at the urban environment...farmers are not going to be getting fined for too much dust.

BTJ...Don't underestimate the "slippery slope" abilities of these psychotic single interest groups to force change where none is asked for, wanted , or needed. Each ridiculous battle they win just empowers them.

"This is a bunch of huffing over nothing."

Yes, they claim to be excluding dust dominated by agricultural sources from the standard for the time being, but for good reason many are concerned about how the rule will be implemented in the future.

The EPA grows and grows and grows...

"but for good reason many are concerned"

Really? For good reason? People are spending their time and energy, Senators are spending tax payer money to jump all over something that isn't happening because 'who knows, maybe the rule will change'?

BTJ wheres the bubble you live in anyways, or are you from another planet?

So many stupid laws and regulations.

Reminds me of the story about two farmers fighting over a stray cow.

One farmer was pulling the animal by the horns,
the other farmer was pulling it by its tail.

They both failed to see the lawyer sitting under the cow, milking it for all it was worth.

I smell lawsuits, lawyers, money,
and dust will still be in the air.

Are the dust bunnies under my bed an endangered species? Will I be forced to vacuum and dust on a weekly basis? I am a lackadaisical housekeeper - will I go to jail for non compliance? Cheers.

Just like labor unions the EPA has outlived its usefulness. Shut it down and sell all of its assets, apply the proceeds from the sale along with all money budgeted to the agency toward reducing Obama's deficit footprint.

"dust bunnies under my bed"

Nevermind the bunnies, you should see the exotic creatures in my CPU fan.

The Bureaucratic-Institutional Complex is a fearsome enemy of democracy and personal freedom.

Lots of random statements, none even approach a discussion on the topic of the thread, but they're clever nevertheless.

Why is regulating urban dust levels (likely a continuation of regulations related to 9/11) a bad thing? How does it threaten person freedom, democracy, or have anything to do with dust under your bed? (though the dust bunny comment was funny).

BTJ suppose you don't want to turn your operation into a wind or solar farm? Suppose some city decides they want cheap land to expand and they can expropriate your land due to dust? Remember who owns the House? Farmers in Cal. getting water? Lawfare on agricultural land is becoming common and a tactic, I know who I would starve first.

Since when is dust a widespread problem? Whether kicked up by a vehicle traveling on a gravel road or by farm equipment working in a field, it settles within seconds. A dust storm is another matter, but that is not caused by humans.......or is this another blame AGW issue?

The regulation seems to be focused, not on the causes or nature of 'dust', but on its very existence as 'particulate matter'.

Therefore, since particulate matter in the air moves with that air mass, it could indeed refer to the normal operation of farms and of industrial farming.

The EPA, like all removed-from-reality bureaucracies, has moved into the Virtual World. This means that it operates in a virtual mindset where its words and images are all that make up the True World and the dust and detritus of the real world are 'dirt' that pollutes this purity.

Morons

Most of the rural roads that are travelled in the US Midwest are paved.

They are around my place anyway. I guess a sign should be posted at each end of the road.

"EPA "Protection" not required here."

How do you expect the Marxists to pay for all the FREE stuff..? The EPA has embarked on a maddening rush for regulation, throwing anything and everything in the hope of getting people upset & worried. It’s the "Water Boarding" effect on public policy such that People will pass Cap & Trade as the lesser of evil..

The EPA dies with the Marxists.

BTJ 3:12 AM
[........This is a bunch of huffing over nothing..agriculture, rural regions, and gravel roads are NOT the focus of this new legislature. These new regulations are aimed at the urban environment...farmers are not going to be getting fined for too much dust......]

Gee T......do you have access to something we don't? Or are you just making stuff up again?
That link never mentioned anything about anything urban.

"BTJ suppose you don't want to turn your operation into a wind or solar farm"

What does that have to do with anything?

"Suppose some city decides they want cheap land to expand and they can expropriate your land due to dust?"

Huh?

"Lawfare on agricultural land is becoming common and a tactic, I know who I would starve first."

Are you daft? IT ONLY APPLIES TO URBAN AREAS.

"Since when is dust a widespread problem? Whether kicked up by a vehicle traveling on a gravel road or by farm equipment working in a field, it settles within seconds. A dust storm is another matter, but that is not caused by humans.......or is this another blame AGW issue?"

Again...it's ONLY IN URBAN AREAS! Dust is a problem in closed settings, in urban areas where there are lots of people and wind is confined to narrow corridors.

"Therefore, since particulate matter in the air moves with that air mass, it could indeed refer to the normal operation of farms and of industrial farming."

No it couldn't...unless of course you're referring to urban agriculture. This is concerned with what is in dust (heavy metals, etc) and the amount, and likely targets construction projects and materials.

"Most of the rural roads that are travelled in the US Midwest are paved."

ONCE AGAIN...THIS DOES NOT TARGET RURAL AREAS!! That's what's retarded about the whole thing, you have Senators jumping on this 'threat to agriculture' without any basis.

Another case of lunatics running the asylum. I can just imagine the implications of regulations based on this nonsense here in Saskatchewan during seeding and harvest seasons.

“Did you really think we want those laws observed?” said Dr. Ferris. “We want them to be broken.
You’d better get it straight that it’s not a bunch of boy scouts you’re up against... We’re after power and we mean it... There’s no way to rule innocent men.
The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens?
What’s there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt.
Now that’s the system, Mr. Reardon, that’s the game, and once you understand it, you’ll be much easier to deal with.”

- Ayn Rand, ‘Atlas Shrugged’ 1957

Here in the deep south of Okanagan, the rural roads among the orchards and vineyards are mostly paved.
A few years ago, small signs began to appear on the power poles to the effect that this and this company is doing dust control. No doubt another make work project for a contributor to the ruling party with tentacles all over the environ-mentalism.
It is true that there is a lot less of dust, though it evens out with all the chemical spraying.
Which is better, ordinary dust or chemical spray?
You decide.

Perhaps one can think how a government agency works.
The absolute first on the mind of a bureaucrat is self-preservation.
There are actually people that are comfortable with well paid though meaningless jobs. It could be that in order to make their job somewhat interesting they have to come up with something they can build their empire on.

It's incredible what a Virtual World Bureaucracy (VWB) can do. Remember, the VWB has no contact with the real world. They live within their words, their texts, their paper...all man-made, all imaginary, all controllable by them.

http://www.cattlenetwork.com/EPA-Sets-Foundation-For-Unprecedented-Dust-Regulation/2010-07-13/Article.aspx?oid=1156744&fid

"According to EPA’s Second Draft Policy Assessment for Particulate Matter (PM), issued late last week, EPA may consider regulating coarse PM at levels as low as 65-85 µg/m3, twice as stringent as the current standard.

“It would be virtually impossible for many critical U.S. industries to comply with this standard, even with use of best-management practices to control dust,” said Tamara Thies, NCBA chief environmental counsel. “All of us certainly want healthy air for our communities, but this is nothing more than the everyday dust kicked up by a car driving down a dirt road, and it has long been found to be of no health concern at ambient levels.”

Because of the high dust levels found in arid climates, many critical western industries have a difficult time meeting the current standard of 150 µg/m3. In some of these areas, “no-till” days have already been proposed for agriculture, severely hindering farmers’ ability to maintain productive operations.

“Farmers could be fined for everyday activities like driving a tractor down a dirt road or tilling a field,” said Thies. “It would effectively bring economic growth and development to a halt in many areas of the country.”

If EPA regulates dust at the level of 65-85 µg/m3, areas across the country would be classified as “nonattainment,” forcing states to impose extreme dust-control requirements on businesses across the board."

Can you imagine - 'no till days'? After all, if the Virtual World bureaucracy considers that the Virtual World, in which they live, has no dust in it, then of course, stopping all everyday activity that raises dust is a 'reasonable answer'.

The problem of course is that these unelected bureaucratic regulators live isolated from reality in their imaginary world of words where man controls everything and further, where man is, even, a pollutant in this pristine virtuality.

How, out of curiosity, is the EPA going to regulate the winds which blow the dust from the farms? What about the rains to damp the dust? What about the fact that, in some cases, the movement of soil by air is actually a natural and beneficial act? Can the EPA differentiate particulate matter into industrial waste and soil? Do they know the difference between the real and the virtual worlds? We already know the answer to that.

"ONCE AGAIN...THIS DOES NOT TARGET RURAL AREAS!!"

Really. I lived in a farming town in BC that grew from rural 20,000 to an urban almost 100,000 in a few short years. The many complaints from the city people who moved here, about the smell of manure is constant and with their numbers exceeding the locals I am sure that a smell/manure use by-law is coming soon.

Dust is how I get my mineral intake, it's like a multi-vitamin, every kind of mineral known to man is in the dust aroused by farmers, grader-operators, batch plants, etc. People like BTJ obviously need it to stiffen the spine and feed the brain cells.

The gun law, put in place because of urban crime, has siphoned up a lot of rural people as well. 'If just one life can be saved!!...

Here's a report from Feb 2009:

"A federal appeals court yesterday denied an industry request to order U.S. EPA to reconsider its decision to regulate dust in rural areas, a move that agricultural groups say could stifle farmers unnecessarily"

"In its response (pdf) to a host of legal challenges brought against the Bush administration's 2006 standards for airborne soot and dust, the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia refused to exempt the regulation of farm dust.

The American Farm Bureau Federation and the National Pork Producers Council challenged EPA in 2006 over its decision to regulate coarse particulate matter -- or dust -- in rural areas, arguing that the agency had failed to show any negative health effects associated with the dust (Greenwire, Dec. 15, 2006)."

Farm dust - that's soil to city dwellers - it's now considered a pollutant akin to the particulate matter from industrial smokestacks. And the VWB (virtual world bureaucrats) consider that it must be regulated.

But how? That's what I find fascinating. How do you stop the soil from rising in the air, in arid climates, when you till the field, when the cattle run across it, when a truck drives along the dirt road, when you dig a creek bed? How do you do it? How do you stop the wind from blowing that tilled soil over the town 50 miles away in a drought-dry summer? How?

Do the VWB know how? What about pollen? What about seeds from plants blowing across fields and introducing weeds and even, 'genetically altered plants'? Do the VWB know how to stop the spread of soil from one site to another?

again, this is an Urban oriented ruling in the states. In Vancouver we have had a similar ruling from Work Safe BC for some years. all it regulates is repeated exposure to dust particles on a job site. In this case Van term ,where limestone gravelled areas used by forklifts and heavy trucks created a very real toxic atmosphere.
mining is regulated the same way as is woodworking industries. there is no way to get adequate filtration from respirators alone, regulating dust creation is just common sense and common courtesy to workers.

This is about the covert takeover and nationalization of everything in society, including you. They are building a Berlin Wall around everything you say, think or do.

It has nothing to do with the environment.

The Green movement is the new Eugenics. If these supremacist fascist ever get the power, they’ll have you and me in a boxcar going to “you know where”.

That’s who they really are, even if most of them don’t know it themselves.

Soooo, does Suzuki want the dust makers jailed also?

The height of hypocrisy - an enviro fascist, with a full belly, complaining about Farmers.

Retardation seems to be rampart amongs liberals, yea ban dust but legalize crack.

Dust Bunnie police next. I guess with the courage level dispelled these days its a perfect fit? How much will the fines be?
One day the millstones these Elitists heap on others backs, will finally break.
It gets more insane by the day.
Dictatorship through Greening.
Power through intimidation by Urban busybodies.
They forget where food comes from. Factory farms have never lasted long. They go back farther than Roman slave farms of 10,000 .

http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/LX/SlavesRomanEmpire.html

Retardation seems to be rampant around here...led by the fearless leader ET.

THIS DOES NOT TARGET RURAL AREAS, DIRT ROADS, OR ANYTHING OF THE LIKE. IT TARGETS URBAN..THAT'S URBAN AREAS..YOU KNOW, CITIES, THOSE PLACES COVERED IN ASPHALT AND CONCRETE. IT'S FOR BUILDING CODES (SO THAT BUILDING MATERIALS DO NOT CONTAIN HARMFUL MATERIALS THAT CAN TURN TO DUST), DEMOLITION CODES, ETC. PLEASE, I BEG YOU, NOT ONE MORE COMMENT ABOUT FARMS AND RURAL AREAS. TRY DOING SOME READING BESIDES THE LINK BEFORE YOU START TO RANT. DID YOU REALLY THINK THE EPA WAS GOING TO START PATROLLING DIRT ROADS? REALLY? NO NEED TO GET YOUR PANTIES IN A BUNCH OVER SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T EXIST

I believe, I believe I'm gonna dust my broom.

revnant dream - the fines could be large and there'd also be freezing of federal funds.

The EPA's current regulations on particulate matter in air, which of course refer to all air, from farming and agriculture as well as industrial areas, affected everything from 'combine dust to feedlot dust even the dust from gravel roads". The agricultural sector tried in 2006 to get the EPA to exclude farming and rural areas but it refused to do so.

Now, what the EPA is doing in 2010 is further reducing the size of the particulate matter allowable in the air, and farms and rural areas say that it's impossible for them to operate within such restructions. Soil and plant particles move into the air - from the act of ploughing, harvesting, animal care. Soil dust moves in from gravel and dirt roads.

"According to EPA’s Second Draft Policy Assessment for Particulate Matter (PM), issued late last week, EPA may consider regulating coarse PM at levels as low as 65-85 µg/m3, twice as stringent as the current standard."

But in many places in the midwest, it's primarily dry land farming and all farm actions, from tilling, seeding, harvesting - cause dust. Farmers can't afford the fines - and what this would do would harm an already stressed rural economy, a basic staple of the US economy.

"If a final disapproval is rendered, federal transportation funds to the state could
be frozen. In such a scenario, transportation funds would be withheld until the State submits an
adequate air quality plan (PM- 10) to EPA."

So, what we have, yet again, is the Virtual World Bureaucracy, living in their fictional world, making regulations for the real world - without any acknowledgment of that real world. Economically, this action could be extremely harmful.

What particularly bothers me, is the virtual world these people live in, and their ignorant and arrogant refusal to step into reality.

When are they going to address those little bits of ground up corn stalks that fly out of the dairy farmers trucks all over the road when they are transporting their silage?

Where is Obama on this important matter? Oh yeah, and the mud that sticks to the tires of the tractors and messes up the roadways 'til it rains?

Hey BTJ take a look at the first question that's at the top right of the EPAS web page when you type dust in the search box and the page was updated August 3? The question - "I have a complaint about dust from dirt roads in my area. What can I do?".

Look in the mirror when you type retarded.... please.

Well that's gonna put the kaboosh on the rotary combines.
Where would one purchase a horse drawn binder these days? Oh darn. Horses fart so that is out.
Maybe T can pull it around the field.

BTJ,
You liberals have sooo much credibility nowadays. All you have to do is type something in all caps, and we will be forced to believe it, based on the record of Obama's scrupulous obeisance to the truth.

Sure would be nice to have your credibility back, wouldn't it?

I wonder if those dirt roads the lady is complaining about were laid AFTER she bought her house? No I don't. What a tool.

"take a look at the first question that's at the top right of the EPAS web page when you type dust in the search box and the page was updated August 3? The question - "I have a complaint about dust from dirt roads in my area. What can I do?"."

Oh well, that solves it then...the new regulations MUST be targeting farmers :S

You people are gullible as all hell...you read a story from Oklahoma that completely ignores all reason and just assumes that the new regulations will target ridiculous sources and just go along with it? No questions asked?

CLEARLY, this is aimed at urban areas and is concerned with toxic dust particulate such as lead.

The EPA has lots of other factors relevant to farming to deal with (toxic run off, loss of top soil) to make dust a new priority, even pondering such a ridiculous idea is an exercise in ignorance.

And it's about damned time. Ever tried to keep a black car clean in agricultural country? It's well nigh impossible.

Yet, I love the smell of horse manure in the morning.